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Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-04-2011, 2:28 PM Reply   
So the best kept secret in boats will make its debut at surf expo in a few short days. I'm excited to see what the next generation XSTAR will look like. I'm surprised that no top secret photos have surfaced. I have begged for pics, but to no avail.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-04-2011, 3:38 PM Reply   
U mean this right here and the new Ilmor 7.4 that Travis Moye has in his current boat?



specifications for the engine:

SPECIFICATIONS
Number of Cylinders 8
Displacement 7.4L
Power Rating 390 kW @ 5800 RPM (522 HP)
Peak Torque 711 N-m @ 4400 RPM (524 Ft-Lbs)
Compression Ratio 10.7:1
Valve Configuration Overhead Valves (2 per cylinder)
Valve Lifters Hydraulic Roller
Firing Order 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
Bore and Stroke 106.299 x 104.77 mm
Bore Center 111.76 mm
Engine Weight (with V-drive transmission) 1085 lbs (492 kg)
Emissions Controls Catalyst. 02 Sensor. ECU Controlled. OBD-M

MATERIALS
Cylinder Block Cast Iron
Cylinder Head Cast Aluminum
Intake Manifold Cast Aluminum Upper and Lower
Exhaust Manifold Cast Iron
Crankshaft Forged Steel
Connecting Rods Forged Steel
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-04-2011, 3:44 PM Reply   
No, im talking about a new XSTAR. The 45 has been around a while.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-04-2011, 3:47 PM Reply   
This is a 12' according to big dealer that he posted comments about
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-04-2011, 3:51 PM Reply   
I cant understand what that last post meant in english
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-04-2011, 3:52 PM Reply   
yes, he definitely means an X-45, when his thread clearly states "the new STAR"
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-04-2011, 3:52 PM Reply   
I dont follow mastercraft (nautique guy here) was just going off this FB post this week. sorry if im wrong about the pic. I do know travis moye is rockin the new engine that he had to wait to share the info on to the public.

Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-04-2011, 4:05 PM Reply   
.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-04-2011, 4:07 PM Reply   
I'm a Nautique guy too, have owned one for the last 10 years... believe it or not, even some of us Nautique guys understand when a guy is asking a question about the new XStar, he doesn't give a isht about an X-45.

Sorry, guess I'm ornery today.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-04-2011, 4:14 PM Reply   
Shows how much I know about the xstar then. Thought all the xstars were like x15, x45, etc not just a dedicated xstar lol

I'll go back to my planet nautique
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-04-2011, 4:17 PM Reply   
sorry, I'm just in a crappy mood today i guess.
Old    Mike Danis (Nova)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-04-2011, 4:40 PM Reply   
A 7.4 Ilmor? Oh my god.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-04-2011, 5:48 PM Reply   
that 7.4L looks sweet. I still don't understand why they wouldn't just put in a diesel, i know its a huge can of worms, but you could get that same 524 ft-lbs from a from a smaller more efficient diesel engine. We don't need the HP we need the torque.
Old    Raw B (rawB)      Join Date: Jul 2010       09-04-2011, 6:04 PM Reply   
Yeah I 've heard there coming out with a new X-Star, aside from the 45 and all other models. I'm anxious. I hopping/assuming they'll keep the curent model in the line up too. I've heard the niew one is a 25 footer!?
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-04-2011, 9:07 PM Reply   
I heard it was a 250k, solid billet aluminum, 750hp ilmor race engine, triplefork, 25 foot wakeboard machine and every hatch is operated by a small version of the power tower.

Last edited by polarbill; 09-04-2011 at 9:09 PM.
Old    mojo            09-04-2011, 9:15 PM Reply   
most the hatches could easily be operating via an actuator controlled by a switch, but this has been done.
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       09-05-2011, 5:21 AM Reply   
i think I've heard that the new XStar is a 24 footer, and that the wake is supposed to be a bit more steep than rampy.
Old    Drew Richardson (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-05-2011, 6:46 AM Reply   
Not only will boats be at Surf Expo, but in the other Orlando Cenvention Center Bld. next door.....there is a Home and Garden / Boat show going on, Orlando Nautiques, Master Craft of Orlando, BMC Boats - MB Sports, Liquid Sports - Malibu Axis, I'm not sure if Parker Boats will have Tige there or what other wakeboat lines will be shown but this should be a good start.
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-05-2011, 7:15 AM Reply   
I have heard from an extremely reliable source the wake is basically the same shape just bigger. And they are def. discontinuing the current star.
Old    Mike Danis (Nova)      Join Date: Jul 2011       09-05-2011, 7:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I heard it was a 250k, solid billet aluminum, 750hp ilmor race engine, triplefork, 25 foot wakeboard machine and every hatch is operated by a small version of the power tower.
Excuse me while I go change my pants. This is just overkill.
Old    Bryce (brycejb328)      Join Date: Aug 2009       09-05-2011, 8:10 AM Reply   
Maybe after this new X-star, MC will come out with a "core edition" of the current X-star... current X-star hull with a capable engine, ballast and pp... then take away all the other frills. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is a big market for that!!

Either way... always stoked to see a new boat design
Old    Tdc_worm C (tdc_worm)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-05-2011, 1:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brycejb328 View Post
Maybe after this new X-star, MC will come out with a "core edition" of the current X-star... current X-star hull with a capable engine, ballast and pp... then take away all the other frills. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is a big market for that!!

Somebody should make a sticky detailing that boat builders are not in business to build boats...they are in business to make money. high end brands (no matter what the market segment) have zero interest in "diluting" their brand image just so people can get a good deal. didnt happen with the old CC 210 hull. it was attempted and abandoned with the now defunct Bu Ride and MC X1 hulls....
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-05-2011, 3:52 PM Reply   
Like I already stated the current star is no more
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       09-07-2011, 8:55 AM Reply   
The current X-Star will be gone along with the X-1. It is a sad day but companies must move forward. They have tried the price point thing and it never worked. I can't believe they have been able to keep this new boat so hush hush. All I know is that it is 24' long and 101" beam. From what I have heard it is just a bigger current X-Star wake that can get REALLY BIG! The new 7.4l is its bread and butter as Travis has been testing this motor in the current Star and pulled the PWT last weekend with it.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-07-2011, 9:12 AM Reply   
How have they tried the "price point thing" and it never worked? The X-1 stripped "started" at $40-$45K, and if you wanted anything else it went above $50k easily and fast. That is not a price point, that was just banking on the MC name, and adding un-needed luxuries and charging for useful ones.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-07-2011, 9:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by behindtheboat View Post
How have they tried the "price point thing" and it never worked? The X-1 stripped "started" at $40-$45K, and if you wanted anything else it went above $50k easily and fast. That is not a price point, that was just banking on the MC name, and adding un-needed luxuries and charging for useful ones.
I agree, plus the boat is so friggening small compared to current boats that very few people would want it anyways, regardless of wake ability.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-07-2011, 9:29 AM Reply   
I wonder how this new longer Star will navigate smaller, competition accommodating lakes.
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-07-2011, 9:30 AM Reply   
How is 40-45k not a price point? Is 30-35k a price point, who has those?
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-07-2011, 9:44 AM Reply   
My bet, said this in the weight an x 25 thread, but I believe it belongs here. I think that the new star is on a bigger X 25 hull. I personally don't see why they wouldn't make the X25 the new X2 and make the hull we now know as the X2 the new X1 and strip it down. But MC is after money so that will never happen lol
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-07-2011, 9:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowslider76 View Post
How is 40-45k not a price point? Is 30-35k a price point, who has those?
40-45 would be a price point boat if you could actually get one for that, that wasn't completely stripped. If you added anything and a tandem trailer you were over 50k on them. It also doesn't make sense because the boat was so small even for 06-09 compared to other boats on the market. In the 40k range in 07ish you could of gotten a nicely equipped Mobius LSV, Elite V(loaded up), vride and a few other boats. All of which are bigger, roomier, more storage then the X1. Just because the X1 was 20-30k less then any other mastercraft vdrive doesn't make it a price point boat or a good deal.
Old     (AllianceBJJ)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-07-2011, 10:11 AM Reply   
I heard this from someone I know that is shopping for one and talked to a dealer about it. Take it for what it's worth...... Either they were blowing smoke or didnt know, but wanted to make it look like they did:

24 ft, a power up and down dash, gunnels that stick out a bit (like a dually truck) that can fill with water for surfing, low rise windshield, reversible seating for rear passengers, engine cushions that look like eliminator boats. supposedly has a batmobile look. pros say it’s gonna change the industry. They said the wake is absolutely unreal and huge.

Last edited by AllianceBJJ; 09-07-2011 at 10:12 AM. Reason: spelling
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-07-2011, 10:16 AM Reply   
The new 7.4 sounds amazing. I was looking at the specs last night.

The only thing I have to say is that the boat companies need to find a way to more efficiently make a wake. At some point you can only throw so much motor at a problem. Hauling 5k lbs to make a nice wake is ridiculous. I'm at the breaking point right now where I'm not willing to pay more for a pull. 5 gallons for a 25 minute set is getting absurd.

That's it.... All my input. Let's see this new star. The old one was a very nice boat. We had lot's of great sets with ours.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-07-2011, 10:27 AM Reply   
Assuming AllianceBJJ is right, and I think he is ... thats just what I wanted, my wake boat to look like the ones the guys with chest hair and gold chains are driving around the lake! I guess I should reserve judgement until after the big reveal.

To Evan's point, we need efficiency. They could start with a diesel option for one, but I guess that's not as cool as a big block.
Old     (AllianceBJJ)      Join Date: Mar 2011       09-07-2011, 10:39 AM Reply   
Also heard it is going to be EXTREMELY limited production (top dealers will get only 5 or so for 2012 model year), so expect the MSRP number to be pretty close to what you should expect to pay.....
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-07-2011, 10:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllianceBJJ View Post
Also heard it is going to be EXTREMELY limited production (top dealers will get only 5 or so for 2012 model year), so expect the MSRP number to be pretty close to what you should expect to pay.....
Are the top dealers even selling 5 of the current Xstars a year? This completely reeks of gearing the Xstar towards an uber rich family who just has to have the most expensive crap more then to a core rider who is looking for a top quality boat that makes a top quality wake.
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-07-2011, 10:59 AM Reply   
@ Brett, how exactly do you keep costs down and load up a boat. If price is your point or mine I would expect bear bones. And if price is your point why would you want a tandem trailer? 4 tires, 2 sets of breaks 2 axles to maintain, if you are budget minded costs twice as much as a single axle. You don't need a double axle in for an X1 anyway.

"24 ft, a power up and down dash, gunnels that stick out a bit (like a dually truck) that can fill with water for surfing, low rise windshield, reversible seating for rear passengers, engine cushions that look like eliminator boats. supposedly has a batmobile look. pros say itís gonna change the industry. They said the wake is absolutely unreal and huge."
^^ I believe about 25% of that. MC can't really afford to release their flagship wake boat and have it bomb, ugly tower bombing is one thing. Having your flagship boat bomb is another. Xstars get people in the door to their dealer, most people don't walk away with one it's something else in the line.

I have to agree with Evan and Adam we need efficiency, unfortunately physics dictates you need to displace more water to get a bigger wake and you need more power to push that displacement. More efficient power would be baller, I'm not looking forward to the days of my homies coming out and having to say "great set, by the way I'm gonna need $60 gas money."

Not that I'm in the market for a 24' boat anyway, that means different house with a bigger garage and probably a bigger tow rig(which will also require more gas). Either way I'm stoked to see this thing, I can't believe how secret it has been, you'd think they are building some type of crazy weapon. I hope somebody in my crew buys one, I've got $60 in gas money burning a hole in my pocket. In the meantime I'll stick to my current Xstar the wake is OK
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-07-2011, 11:09 AM Reply   
there's a difference between being a price point shopper, likely because of budget concerns, and just straight cheap. I want a price point boat, not just a cheap stripped down one.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-07-2011, 11:11 AM Reply   
btw, anyone remember years ago when cartoon like images of what MC saw boats going to in the future? They all looked like robot space ships. Looks like they're making that happen.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-07-2011, 11:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowslider76 View Post
@ Brett, how exactly do you keep costs down and load up a boat. If price is your point or mine I would expect bear bones. And if price is your point why would you want a tandem trailer? 4 tires, 2 sets of breaks 2 axles to maintain, if you are budget minded costs twice as much as a single axle. You don't need a double axle in for an X1 anyway.

"24 ft, a power up and down dash, gunnels that stick out a bit (like a dually truck) that can fill with water for surfing, low rise windshield, reversible seating for rear passengers, engine cushions that look like eliminator boats. supposedly has a batmobile look. pros say it’s gonna change the industry. They said the wake is absolutely unreal and huge."
^^ I believe about 25% of that. MC can't really afford to release their flagship wake boat and have it bomb, ugly tower bombing is one thing. Having your flagship boat bomb is another. Xstars get people in the door to their dealer, most people don't walk away with one it's something else in the line.

I have to agree with Evan and Adam we need efficiency, unfortunately physics dictates you need to displace more water to get a bigger wake and you need more power to push that displacement. More efficient power would be baller, I'm not looking forward to the days of my homies coming out and having to say "great set, by the way I'm gonna need $60 gas money."

Not that I'm in the market for a 24' boat anyway, that means different house with a bigger garage and probably a bigger tow rig(which will also require more gas). Either way I'm stoked to see this thing, I can't believe how secret it has been, you'd think they are building some type of crazy weapon. I hope somebody in my crew buys one, I've got $60 in gas money burning a hole in my pocket. In the meantime I'll stick to my current Xstar the wake is OK
I guess you are correct but the problem is that their X1 with nothing but 2 small ballast tanks, single axle trailer, no PP, no racks, no cover, no bimini, no heater, 310 motor was basically a useless boat that was more or the same as few others boats with the needed stuff. I guess my point is that even though it was a price point boat, it was an over priced price point boat.

Last edited by polarbill; 09-07-2011 at 11:27 AM.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-07-2011, 11:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowslider76 View Post
@ Brett, how exactly do you keep costs down and load up a boat. If price is your point or mine I would expect bear bones. And if price is your point why would you want a tandem trailer? 4 tires, 2 sets of breaks 2 axles to maintain, if you are budget minded costs twice as much as a single axle. You don't need a double axle in for an X1 anyway.

"24 ft, a power up and down dash, gunnels that stick out a bit (like a dually truck) that can fill with water for surfing, low rise windshield, reversible seating for rear passengers, engine cushions that look like eliminator boats. supposedly has a batmobile look. pros say itís gonna change the industry. They said the wake is absolutely unreal and huge."
^^ I believe about 25% of that. MC can't really afford to release their flagship wake boat and have it bomb, ugly tower bombing is one thing. Having your flagship boat bomb is another. Xstars get people in the door to their dealer, most people don't walk away with one it's something else in the line.

I have to agree with Evan and Adam we need efficiency, unfortunately physics dictates you need to displace more water to get a bigger wake and you need more power to push that displacement. More efficient power would be baller, I'm not looking forward to the days of my homies coming out and having to say "great set, by the way I'm gonna need $60 gas money."

Not that I'm in the market for a 24' boat anyway, that means different house with a bigger garage and probably a bigger tow rig(which will also require more gas). Either way I'm stoked to see this thing, I can't believe how secret it has been, you'd think they are building some type of crazy weapon. I hope somebody in my crew buys one, I've got $60 in gas money burning a hole in my pocket. In the meantime I'll stick to my current Xstar the wake is OK
Better start pushing Jay or Will towards an X Star - can't think of anyone in our crew who would even consider that kind of price/boat.
Old    Andrew Moreton (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-07-2011, 11:29 AM Reply   
Does anyone know if MasterCraft has a special "unveiling" scheduled for the new X-Star or will we start seeing the first pictures tomorrow morning when Expo opens?
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-07-2011, 11:32 AM Reply   
What you want and what is possible are two different things, how do you make a boat cheaper? You give something up. If you want a built in ballast system it costs the manufacturer $X to buy the pumps from Jabsco, so boats with pumps cost more then boats without. Price point boats are built cheaper it's just a fact of business, just like the sticky note on your monitor reads, "boat builders are not in business to build boats...they are in business to make money." Every boat manufacturer out there runs on a profit margin and I'm guessing they are all pretty close to the same. It's not like Mastercraft, Natique and Malibu run at 50% margin and Moomba, Tige and MB run at 25% just because they like consumers more. I'm sure the first three have a higher margin based on name, but they've also earned it and it's probably not that high.. So when you buy a price point boat the things in it are cheaper or there are less of them. Personally I rather have the build quality and add options as my budget allows.
Old    mojo            09-07-2011, 11:38 AM Reply   
well if they wanted to make things cheaper they would. however, they dont. they could use johnson pumps instead of jabsco, not put hard tanks in the boats and let people buy their own sacs, not put trim tabs on the boats, not cnc every part of the dash to look industrial, etc. keep hulls that work, like the x-star, even longer(but it's not like price goes down the longer the hull is in use)
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-07-2011, 12:02 PM Reply   
Friday is my first year of attending Surf Expo do they allow cameras or does it have to be press?
Old    CORY MITCHELL (stang_killa_ss)      Join Date: Jan 2010       09-07-2011, 1:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
40-45 would be a price point boat if you could actually get one for that, that wasn't completely stripped. If you added anything and a tandem trailer you were over 50k on them. It also doesn't make sense because the boat was so small even for 06-09 compared to other boats on the market. In the 40k range in 07ish you could of gotten a nicely equipped Mobius LSV, Elite V(loaded up), vride and a few other boats. All of which are bigger, roomier, more storage then the X1. Just because the X1 was 20-30k less then any other mastercraft vdrive doesn't make it a price point boat or a good deal.
i didnt quiet make your price point, but close. i paid 46K for my 2011 LSV. and no left overs sale either. custom ordered it right after the '11s came out at the winter boat show.
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showt...ht=2011+moomba
Old    Bill (Bill_Dad)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-07-2011, 1:27 PM Reply   
it is my understanding that building a cheaper xstar is not possible for Mastercraft, the way the boat is constructed doesn't allow for this. The whole process of building the star is very time consuming, and unfortunately time is money. Quality costs money for any manufacturer.
Old    Johnny Neves (johnny_jr)      Join Date: Mar 2006       09-07-2011, 1:39 PM Reply   
X2 for
Quality costs money for any manufacturer
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-07-2011, 1:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Dad View Post
it is my understanding that building a cheaper xstar is not possible for Mastercraft, the way the boat is constructed doesn't allow for this. The whole process of building the star is very time consuming, and unfortunately time is money. Quality costs money for any manufacturer.
The main reason is they would rather fill their production line with 100k boats over 50-70k boats. I actually saw this happen when I was selling Mastercrafts. I sold a custom order prostar 197 that was optioned like an X7. It was almost a 60k ski boat. It took them 3 months to get the boat to my customer because they kept plugging in X15's, Xstars and X45's because they could make more money on those. Pissed me off to no end.

Stang, that is what I am talking about. You got a very nicely equipped LSV that is bigger, has more storage, better rough water ride and more options for the same if not less then a completely stripped X1 back in 2007/2008. I could see the X1 being the same price as the LSV if they have very similar options. One you get better build quality(maybe a little, maybe a lot) the other you get a more modern, bigger boat. The problem is the stripped X1 was more then the loaded LSV. Part of it is Mastercraft was probably just trying to obsolete the X1 without actually just stopping build it. Raise the price so much that no one really will buy one. They will make a killing on the one's that actually sell though.

As for not being able to build an Xstar for cheaper, I say hogwash. Get rid of all the billet in teh boat, go to a standard guage pod, swap the ridiculously overpriced billet tower for a simple aftermarket style tower, get rid of the overpriced JL stereo equipment and amps, simplify the stitching on the vinyl ,etc...There is a ton of things they could do to get the current Xstar down into the 60's or 70's. There is no reason for them to do it though. They would rather sell a $150k xstar.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       09-07-2011, 2:41 PM Reply   
What happens when you have a dumb down X-Star like you are saying to do Brett and people complain because the stitching is coming out or other issues with the finish since they are still going to have to stand behind every boat they build the same way they do now? When they build boats they run a certain number per mold and then move onto another mold. If your 197 customer was the only one then unfortunately he is going to get pushed back until they get another order for that specific boat as changing the line to do one boat is very time consuming and they are loosing money every time they switch molds.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-07-2011, 2:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason95gt View Post
What happens when you have a dumb down X-Star like you are saying to do Brett and people complain because the stitching is coming out or other issues with the finish since they are still going to have to stand behind every boat they build the same way they do now? When they build boats they run a certain number per mold and then move onto another mold. If your 197 customer was the only one then unfortunately he is going to get pushed back until they get another order for that specific boat as changing the line to do one boat is very time consuming and they are loosing money every time they switch molds.
Getting rid of all the intricate stitching doesn't make it any less durable. It just looks plain as in comparison to the craziness that is Mastercraft vinyl these days. Give me large 2 tone panels with an accent color piping any day of the week over the over done and goddi mastercraft interior of today. Mastercraft has failed big time in this in the early 2000's. They had the fanciest looking vinyl in the business but it sucked and had tons of problems. Don't mistake fancy for durable. As long as you use quality materials it isn't a problem. The dealer I worked at sold Mastercraft and Centurion. When I talked to the service guys they said they saw way fewer Centurions and they were easier to work on when they came in. Just another example of fancy/bling doesn't equal reliable or durable. Maybe it is Mastercraft just having so much technology and custom pieces but they aren't any more reliable then any other boat out there and because of the constant tech advances they are probably less reliable then other brands.
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-07-2011, 3:13 PM Reply   
I think that you could strip down an XSTAR as you say Brett, but that is not what an XSTAR buyer wants. I want the billit alluminum, I want the fancy dash, I want the vinyl the way it is. If I didn't, then I would buy something else. Could BMW strip down a 7 series and sell it for less, YEP! I think that would de-value all of the loaded up 7 series. Then how is resale?
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-07-2011, 3:14 PM Reply   
Jason, my 98 tige had normal stiching, (nothing special like mastercraft claims) and the stitching never failed. Moomba at $40k stands behind their boat. Mastercraft stands behind their X1 "price point" boat at 55K. Why would they not stand behind a $55k xstar with less bling, options, bilet, and special stitching?

At the LA boat show I asked a MC salesman why the Xstar was so expensive. One of the first things he said was that built in the price is the cost of R&D. Well this was 2008 and that same boat with little changes to the insignificant items (ie: interior patterns, glove box, dash cluster, steering wheel) and NO changes to the important items (Hull, wake, ballast) since 2004... is now $30k more. Im not in the industry so I do not know much, but I am a consumer and can't believe that any R&D was being done to the xstar. Maybe the salesman was full of crap because he had not other reason to point to the incredible price diff. to comparable boats. besides, of what I have heard, the xstar was never "R&D'd" by MC, it was originally an I/O from another manufacturer that MC realized put out an amazing wake when loaded down.... (correct me if I am wrong). If true, every xstar owner paid a lot for "R&D" that apparently never happened.

With that said, if MC built the xstar "dumbed down" with the rider in mind and less everything and could offer it at $50-55, I would have put them on my short list.

Never gonna happen, I know, but NOT because its impossible... only because MC does not want to. After all, MC builds boats for the rich man, doesnt care about the tiny demographic of us "core" riders.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-07-2011, 3:17 PM Reply   
NOTE: I am not hating on MC for trying to make money, thats what they are in business for. I love the xstar wake (all time favorite), just not the price tag that comes with it.
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-07-2011, 4:47 PM Reply   
Johnny, what is a "core" rider? I don't know what that means!

The XSTAR was never an I/O, so you do need to be corrected on that.

You chose an axis for your boat. That is great! My daughter rides behind an A22 alot and really likes the wake. Also our MC Dealer now offers axis so I help support that brand, but an XSTAR is just different in my humble opinion and should not be a price point boat.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-07-2011, 8:44 PM Reply   
I don't have a definition for you of "core" rider... but what I am trying to convey is that us wakeworlders who really wakeboard and try to progress the sport are a small group of boat buyers. I dont feel that we matter much when the wakeboat companies are making decisions about their boat lines. No big deal, its business, its money, I get it. I know this forum is an echo chamber and when we talk about how well price point wake boats would sell... ie stripped down 210's, prostar 205's... we get the feeling every boat buyer would like the idea. Obviously the big boys at MC or CC do not agree. Maybe they are right, maybe, but with how well Axis and MB are doing (even their "price point" is getting out of hand) I think they are wrong.

As far as the xstar= I/O, I have heard it from industry guys more than once, but I stand corrected. And I don't care either way, I love that wake.

I agree the current xstar is different than a "price point boat"... but to me, the only thing I SEE is too much bling and a really high price tag. The current xstar reportedly is no more, so you would like to see that hull vanish forever? I would rather see it stripped down, cheaper tower, no hand wrapped anything, no billet, on a tandem trailer... priced to compete with axis and mb.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-07-2011, 8:57 PM Reply   
I see "core" rider as the median/average wakeboarder. If this is "the" wakeboard boat, they're priced way out of the median of the majority of the actual market's price range. Not to pick on you either Mike, but don't you "trade" your boat in every year, and have a great relationship with your dealership, and thus the boat only costs you few $K every time? If that is the case, not many people are that fortunate. Sorry if I am wrong on that, that is half assumption. And I'm pretty sure he referred to the base design of the Xstar as being from an I/O, not that it was an I/O. That sounds like something a non-educated sales person would say regarding the pickle fork.

In regards to the Engineering, in my world we have R&D Engineering to develop and eventually manufacture new product/advance current product, and then current manufacturing Engineering, the latter's sole responsibility is to reduce cost of current manufactured product, and make it's process more efficient overall. This is a need for normal business. This could easily be done on both new, and current/out-dated boats, and would thus lead to a profitable price point boat, it seems they just don't put the resources to it.

It is just baffling that "the" wakeboard boat is becoming such an exclusive, expensive item, and then people wonder why cable is growing the way it is and will eventually take over. I get the pay to play, and that this is an expensive sport, but it shouldn't be so exclusive only kids of CEOs or the like jobs can afford the best equipment. I guess my take is, if a company like MC cared enough about growing the actual sport, they, and only a company like them with the previous molds (205V, X2, etc), could easily help grow the sport by making a price point boat, although with smaller margins yet not too small by incorporating cost reduction in manufacturing and materials done through production engineering, not only would it grow the sport, but you would then have the "less rich" in the brand, with updated technology (ballast, speed control), and aspiring to some day own a premium version of the brand. This would grow the sport, and the brand loyalty. At this point though it is a business, and they are more concerned about attracting the new customer, who really isn't the "core", or average boarder. The used market will only supply this need for so long, and those boats will eventually break down and die out, and gas alone will keep people out of some of these newer wake boats in the future, all in my opinion. That said, it's understandable why cable will boom, and, I guess let's see this new Xstar, that I will never likely have the opportunity to ride behind..
Old    mojo            09-07-2011, 9:52 PM Reply   
well put a-dub/ even though i'm soured on mc's from owning a brand new one and friends experiences, i still miss a fair amount of t hings from my 05 x-2. one thing i don't miss is mc screwing me renaming it the x-1 and dropping the price. anyways, i would love to see a 205v hull with a tower and perfect pass or zero off out the door for 60k including a trailer.

Last edited by mojo; 09-07-2011 at 9:54 PM.
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-07-2011, 10:17 PM Reply   
Mastercraft and all the other manufacturers are operating at such a lower capacity than a few years ago they don't have the room or time to deal with smaller margin boats. Think about it... If mastercraft can only make 20 boats a month would they make a boat with a 15,000 dollar margin or a 30,000 dollar one? I also heard in another forum the older 210 actually would cost cc more to make than the current one, negating any profit made. And the sheer tiny size of the 205s would scare away tons of buyers in today's market. I mean back in the day the 205 and the 210 weren't considered small. But when I get in my old school 210 after hanging out in a 230 or even the smaller x star my boat feels so small. I think what needs to be done is a smaller start up company needs to come along and buy the rights to the old molds and make them that way. I had heard the x star was based on an I/o as well as they discovered one that made a great wake and modified it to be an inboard. Wakeboarding in the form if boat is going to destroy itself if it keeps getting less accessible to the everyman though.
Old    Mase (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-07-2011, 10:30 PM Reply   
Anyone else noticed how much less purses at contests are these days? Or how some pros are struggling to make a living? There is less money in the sport these days. I think it's got so expensive that there aren't as many people into it anymore. I remember an article in level 10 magazine (anyone remember that one??) waaay back in the day saying Shapiro made like 750k a year, that is absurd to think about today. X stars are sick boats tho and so what if they want to market to the higher class? But someone needs to come along and make a cheap boat for the masses.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-07-2011, 11:17 PM Reply   
mason: I missed the level 10 magazine, is it written by the level 10 gymnast? lol.

side note: next time you see an xstar on a trailer or lift, take a good look at the bottom middle section of the transom under the swim step. it is a perfectly squared and flat area designed to possibly hold an outdrive.... ? just kidding, but seriously, it does.
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-08-2011, 4:27 AM Reply   
The XSTAR that will be at expo will be very unique with a wrap containing all of the employees names at MC. And it will have an orange interior?
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-08-2011, 5:49 AM Reply   
I'll admit I quit riding because of expense. I gave up a possible baseball scholarship for the sport. I can remember back in 03 when NOBODY around our part of the lake knew what wakrboarding was. My crew were the only people riding. I sold my boat, board, ropes, comp vests, etc. Because of expenseI live right on the water, look at it every morning when I wake up, and haven't even touched it. Since July! I've had neighbors ask what happened cause they would sit on the porch and watch us ride every afternoon and had been doing so for seven or eight years. It's not easy to just sell a boat and turn around and buy a new one. I'm having to wait a year. Even the used boats are waaaay expensive, in a way that's a good thing. BUT your looking at paying 55k or more to get into newer hulls and wakes. Malibu, mastercraft etc. NOT COUNTING axis MB or other price points. I often show my parents axis or other price point boats and say that's a deal! They ALWAYS reply "you act like 45k is nothing!" Well when compared to 110k it kinda is! (Just using a comparison, not at all saying 45k is cheap. Cause its not)
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-08-2011, 7:53 AM Reply   
Core riders
Rich mans boat
Blah blah blah - I'm far from rich and have an Xstar, if you love it you'll make it work.

Lets just see this thing already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Attached Images
 
Old    Jason Smith (snowslider76)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-08-2011, 7:56 AM Reply   
From facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/MCBoatCompany?sk=wall&filter=2

We are asking a favor of you with a huge prize...
Help get us to 10,000 fans by Friday morning and we will give you, our Facebook mafia, first look at a brand new boat we are releasing. Call in sick and be on our page at 10am EST on Friday.
Old    Dan Souliere (2008moomba)      Join Date: May 2011       09-08-2011, 8:41 AM Reply   
Done.

9,865 so far.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-08-2011, 10:14 AM Reply   
So if they don't get to 10,000 they won't show us the boat? I highly doubt that.
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-08-2011, 10:18 AM Reply   
Let's stop at 9999 and see.
Old    Luke Loewen (lalh20)      Join Date: Jun 2011       09-08-2011, 10:37 AM Reply   
In my opinion, a 7.4 is ridiculous. The amount of gas that thing will burn, just to get to a smooth spot on the lake is going to be enormous, much less the amount of . A real step forward with MC would be to make an advancement in engines rather than just throwing a bigger one in. My favorite option would be a diesel engine, the company that does this in wake boat will change the industry. My parents had an extremely large cruiser with twin engines (they were ILMOR's but that's not the point). Just to take the thing out for the day could easily cost $600+ if you ran it. Recently he upgraded to a boat with diesels in it, the fuel savings are HUGE and at the same time, the thing performs waaay better. It pulls as if it's not moving any water. If you ask me, that would make a boat worth an extra 10K, not just some gigantic motor.
Old    Keller Wall (kbob)      Join Date: Aug 2009       09-08-2011, 10:48 AM Reply   
And with a Diesel you could scare off all the wally's by throwing up clouds of black smoke
Old    Tdc_worm C (tdc_worm)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-08-2011, 11:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalh20 View Post
In my opinion, a 7.4 is ridiculous. The amount of gas that thing will burn, just to get to a smooth spot on the lake is going to be enormous, much less the amount of . A real step forward with MC would be to make an advancement in engines rather than just throwing a bigger one in. My favorite option would be a diesel engine, the company that does this in wake boat will change the industry. My parents had an extremely large cruiser with twin engines (they were ILMOR's but that's not the point). Just to take the thing out for the day could easily cost $600+ if you ran it. Recently he upgraded to a boat with diesels in it, the fuel savings are HUGE and at the same time, the thing performs waaay better. It pulls as if it's not moving any water. If you ask me, that would make a boat worth an extra 10K, not just some gigantic motor.
Just for reference, MC does not make engines. neither does PCM, Illmoor, Merc, or Indmar. They just marinize them. GM makes engines. To that point, MC is stuck with their marinizers, whom are stuck with what GM gives them....
Old    Chris C (cboom12)      Join Date: Jul 2004       09-08-2011, 11:20 AM Reply   
ummm. no they r not. They put a diesel in the x80 a couple years ago and there are several marine diesel manufacturers out there. They are stuck with ilmor no more than they were stuck with indmar. The boat manufacturer decides who motor they decide to use. I suspect that the reason for not putting a diesel in the star is actually cost, surprisingly. I believe the vw motor they had a couple years back was a shade under 30k for the option. That being said they either pass that on to the consumer making the boat even more expensive or lose some of their margin. The other thing i have heard and this could be totally off is that with all the emissions standers the EPA is placing on diesels it may not be all that easy to adapt for the application.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-08-2011, 11:22 AM Reply   
I dont think people who spend $100k on a boat are too overly concerned about the gas consumption.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-08-2011, 11:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowslider76 View Post
Core riders
Rich mans boat
Blah blah blah - I'm far from rich and have an Xstar, if you love it you'll make it work.

Lets just see this thing already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you think that the "average" wakeboarder drives a Tahoe, pulls an Xstar, and just makes it work regardless, all while having a career in medical device sales (recruiter?), then this proves my point. You are blessed, not everyone is.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       09-08-2011, 11:28 AM Reply   
The 7.4L is actually getting better fuel economy than the 6.2L. From a post about the 5 blade OJ prop and Travis Moye's boat running 3700 RPMs with 4000lbs of ballast and 24mph, that was with the new 7.4 as he was testing it. A better option which sounds like it is coming sooner than later is a CVT transmission or some kind of adjustable transmission.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-08-2011, 11:32 AM Reply   
LON would say- "I had my x-80 switched to gas so i can stunt on you foolz at the pump and on the water!"
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-08-2011, 11:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cboom12 View Post
ummm. no they r not. They put a diesel in the x80 a couple years ago and there are several marine diesel manufacturers out there. They are stuck with ilmor no more than they were stuck with indmar. The boat manufacturer decides who motor they decide to use. I suspect that the reason for not putting a diesel in the star is actually cost, surprisingly. I believe the vw motor they had a couple years back was a shade under 30k for the option. That being said they either pass that on to the consumer making the boat even more expensive or lose some of their margin. The other thing i have heard and this could be totally off is that with all the emissions standers the EPA is placing on diesels it may not be all that easy to adapt for the application.
I would love to see a diesel option but doubt it will happen. They could throw in a yanmar or newer cummins. They should run 10-15k each for a boat manufacturer I think. They burn a lot cleaner then older detroits and cats. Some can also be spun up to a higher rpm although I think the ticket would be to run a 1.5 or 2 to 1 transmission. 10-15k can't be much more then an ilmor 500hp motor and you could probably get by with 315-400hp in a diesel because of the massive torque and ability to run a 1.5 to 1 transmission. They would get far better fuel economy then anything gas powered. The problem I see is that diesel may be tougher to find at marina's on lakes and rivers. Obviously not any harder to find then diesel for a pickup or at a large marina where there are yachts. Isn't Cali trying to outlaw diesel al togther? If so, that would be a huge problem.
Old    Chance Alex (calexan)      Join Date: Dec 2008       09-08-2011, 11:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brett33 View Post
LON would say- "I had my x-80 switched to gas so i can stunt on you foolz at the pump and on the water!"
I was Lon was still around stutin on all us foolz here.
Old    LR3w8kbrdr            09-08-2011, 11:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason95gt View Post
The 7.4L is actually getting better fuel economy than the 6.2L. From a post about the 5 blade OJ prop and Travis Moye's boat running 3700 RPMs with 4000lbs of ballast and 24mph, that was with the new 7.4 as he was testing it. A better option which sounds like it is coming sooner than later is a CVT transmission or some kind of adjustable transmission.
I'll b behind Travis' beast next week riding
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-08-2011, 12:04 PM Reply   
I'm guessing this would do the trick


Specs:
Dimensions 36.57 x 29.84 x 31.02 inches (929 x 758 x 788 mm)
Cycle 4-Stroke Diesel
Max Power 235 kW @ 3800 RPM (320 HP)
Max Torque 685 ft-lbs @ 2500 RPM
Minimum Idle Speed 700 RPM
Full Throttle RPM 3800 RPM
Engine Capacity 254.10 cubic inches (4.164 liters)
Bore and Stroke 3.70" / 3.94" (94 / 100 mm)
Compression Ratio 17.5:1
Configuration In-line 6
Block and Head Material Cast-Iron Block / Aluminum Cylinder Head
Induction Type Turbocharged and inter-cooled circuit Ė Dry air filter
Combustion Sequence 1-5-3-6-2-4
Dry Shipping Weight (engine only) 1014 lbs (460 kg)
Type of Injection Common Rail Direct Injection
Oil Capacity (with filter) 14.58 qts (13.8 liters)
Cooling Circuit Capacity 4.76 gal (18 liters)
Electric System Voltage 12Vdc negative ground
Alternator 110 amp
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       09-08-2011, 12:04 PM Reply   
All they needed to do was push the windshield forward about 8 inches, push the rear seat back 8 inches, and they would have the perfect boat.

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