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Old    Mike H. (utmba95)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-10-2010, 6:16 PM Reply   
Hi,

My stock ballast Rule 2000 pump is going bad. Since they don't make them anymore, I'm wondering what is the easiest way to get equivalent or better fill times with a new pump. It would be nice if I could find a pump that had the same thread size on the inlet. Does anybody know of a direct replacement?

Supra apparently put the pump in before the drive shaft, and now it's impossible to rotate the pump because the outlet hits the shaft. Has anybody else dealt with this? It may be possible to unscrew the thru-hull nut, press down to break the seal, and then unscrew the thru-hull from the pump. Sounds like a pain though.

If I can't find a pump to fit the stock thru-hull, I don't want something flopping around near the drive shaft. Also, the stock system had no ball valve because it wasn't accessible anyway. If I don't screw the pump directly into the thru-hull, I add more components that could possibly fail.

Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks.
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Old    Mike H. (utmba95)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-17-2010, 8:47 AM Reply   
Has anybody replaced one of these pumps?
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-17-2010, 9:18 AM Reply   
I haven't replaced one but I'm just thinking based on your photo.

What about just carefully cutting/snapping off that pump and then put a 1/4 turn ball valve and a 90 degree elbow and an aerator pump that's capable of being mounted horizontally. Those tsunami pumps are supposed to be mounted horizontally. I think.
Old    Andrew"Jet"Mitchell (andrewjet)      Join Date: Jan 2003       08-17-2010, 9:31 AM Reply   
Jeff's got a good idea there. I use the Rule 1100's and the Tsunami 1200's. And the Tsunami's are way better, big diff between the 1100's and the 1200's. Jet
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       08-17-2010, 9:45 AM Reply   
Just throwing an idea at you, but could you take the fill hose off and then grind down (dremmel or something) the nozzle until it is flush with the pump and then spin it off? And then use Jeff's idea about the Tsunami pump.
Old    Ben (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-17-2010, 10:14 AM Reply   
I got the exact same boat and had the exact same issues. The difference for me was I went ahead and plumbed and entirely new ballast system in mine. I kept the tank but i added self priming jabscos and Y'ed it off, with a ball valve before the Y.

The problem i came accross (besides the terrible placement), was if you do not have your new pump inlet all the way through the hull it will not prime. Unless of course its self priming. And like you've found out getting a new one in there is not trivial.

On mine, one side of the Y is jabsco (self prime) and the other side (the side that goes to the tank) is not self priming. And the Jabsco side primes the other side. Works fine.

Unbolting your shaft is an option.
Old    Ben (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-17-2010, 10:24 AM Reply   
FYI - do i see your water hose disconnected? That could be really bad. dont forget to reconnect it before ya head out.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-17-2010, 10:35 AM Reply   
It looks like the quick drain hose that connects the two manifolds is disconected.
Old    Mike H. (utmba95)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-17-2010, 1:42 PM Reply   
Thanks for the ideas for getting the pump out.

Ben, did you actually try that particular pump location with a 90 and an aerator pump and it wouldn't prime? I certainly don't want to modify it and have it not prime.
Old    Ben (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-17-2010, 2:02 PM Reply   
Thats exactly what I did. No prime. In fact i tried no 90 bend at all, as well. Pump inlet was just raised a few inches.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-17-2010, 2:03 PM Reply   
I would expect that if you kept the pump as low as possible it would prime fine as long as the pump was designed to be oriented horizontally. The installation instructions for the Tsunami shows it in a horizontal position so I assume that's optimal for it. I've read at least one case where someone was using Rule pumps and had them horizontal and they wouldn't prime. He changed it to vertical and then they would prime. I guess they're just different designs.


It will be below the water line as long as you don't extend it too far vertically before making your 90 degree turn. If it's below the water line the water will be doing everything it can to get into that pump and through it on its own and you won't really have to worry about "priming".
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-17-2010, 2:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamighazi View Post
Thats exactly what I did. No prime. In fact i tried no 90 bend at all, as well. Pump inlet was just raised a few inches.
I suspect that the layout of it was such that a portion of the pump housing existed above the water line. If so then there was an air pocket in the housing that the pump couldn't overcome.

Was that with a Tsunami pump? Did you have it mounted horizontally and just about lying on the floor?
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-17-2010, 2:08 PM Reply   
This might be too much $$$ but you can get a reversible Johnson ballast pump for $150 that should work fine as long as it's within about 11" of the water line.

http://www.jmsonline.net/jpi-1024690...ource=googleps
Old    Mike H. (utmba95)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-18-2010, 2:03 PM Reply   
Also, Ben, what did you use to adapt from 1 1/8" to 1"? I bought the 1 1/8" to 3/4" and 3/4" to 1" from Wakemakers as an easy but possibly restrictive way to pop in the Tsunami 1200. Or were you using the 800?

I'd really like a removable cartridge type pump because one of the local lakes has a lot of weeds that get stuck in the pumps. I think that may actually be the problem with my current pump. It's weird because I can hear it moving at what sounds like full speed, but sometimes it pumps and sometimes it doesn't.

I'm looking at the Johnson as well, but since my boat is so old I'd like to minimize the effort I put into it.
Old    Ben (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-18-2010, 3:12 PM Reply   
Man its been a while. I want to say i just used the ID 3/4" threads, and just popped a brass threaded in there. Yeah i would at least try replacing with an aerator pump you might have better luck. i wasnt using and aerator.
Old    Mike H. (utmba95)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-19-2010, 8:07 AM Reply   
I just ran some tests on fill times. I used the same 1 1/4" corregated hose and garden hose fittings from my home made Rule 2000 portable sac pump and a new Tsunami 1200.

Transferring a 5 gal bucket from ground level to another sitting on top of a chair:
Rule 2000 = 20.5 seconds or 878 GPH
Tsunami 1200 with 1 1/8" to 3/4" on inlet = 24.5 seconds or 735 GPH

I don't think there will be a priming issue with the 1200 and it will allow me to clean it out or replace motors very easily. Now I need to decide if a 20% increase in fill time is an acceptable tradeoff.
Old    Ben (kamighazi)      Join Date: Nov 2008       08-19-2010, 9:15 AM Reply   
yeah dude. if all you're filling is that one tank 20% is nominal at best. I fill 3000# in my boat, takes around 15min. The tank is the fastest and because of that i use it as my wake tweaker. whats 6.5 minutes to fill?
Old    Mike H. (utmba95)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-20-2010, 9:25 AM Reply   
I connected the overflow of the hard tank to another sack in the rear ski locker. It's around 10-12 minutes now to fill both. Increasing it by a couple of minutes would be noticeable, but probably not too bad. Especially since I can fill while driving.
Old    Jacob Ruppert (jacobs0222i)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-20-2010, 10:47 AM Reply   
Mike when you are filling tanks like that with the Tsunami and Rule they tend to take longer because they have to deal with a lot head. Even with that example that you did with 5 gal buckets and only about 2ft of head the tsunami lost about 39% and the rule lost almost 54% of there rated pumping capabilities. The Johnson is rated at 12GPM 720 but at 2ft of head would not loose that much.

I think that when you are filling up hard tanks and using the overflow to fill up the extra sac it is putting a lot more then two feet if head on the pump. Where the Johnson may be able to overcome that.
Old    Marc Robinson (Down2Ride)      Join Date: Aug 2011       08-25-2011, 1:56 PM Reply   
I have the same boat, except a 2001 model. All of a sudden, my rule 2000 pump is not filling the ballast. The pump comes on, but no water pumped. When checking it, I can rotate the pump clockwise and counter-clockwise. Also seems to be a small leak from the bottom of the pump. It worked fine, and now it doesn't. Could it be an air pocket? Need tightening/sealed better? This is my first wake boat, so I am new to all of this. Bought it as a fix-up job...just needed some TLC. Any help appreciated.

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