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Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-28-2011, 3:44 PM Reply   
So i want to get a new system in my 01 wakesetter. Everything I have now is either stock or very s***ty quality. Right now i have the stock infinity speakers, pretty happy with them actually, for inboats. I know there are much better speakers out there but dont really have the money. I have also 4 s***ty speakers in 2 cans on the tower and they stink. I would like to switch up the tower speakers with something decent and add a sub. The inboats and tower speakers are run off of a 4 channel amp right now. Pheonix Gold i believe. I also only have one battery and its in the rear locker. Probably would be in my best interest to add another and maybe change location. IDK how hard that is but hopefully not a huge pain. Hopefully David from earmark chimes in on this because I think he is like the stereo Guru on here and WW it seems. Maybe you guys could come up with a mock system for me and throw around a price range of what it would be! That would be sick.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-28-2011, 5:02 PM Reply   
What does low budget mean?

When I hear low budget I think of something like this.
inboat speakers-2 pair polk db 651-probably $120-150 or so
tower speakers-find a used set of pro80's or pro60's(people are goign to be dumping those for the new REV series)-Should be able to get for 400 or so.
Kicker CVR 12 or WS XS12 or Image Dynamics ID or IDQ 12. $100-$200
Then depending on your pheonix gold amp output use to power the inboats at 2 ohms and the set of Pro60/80's. You could also run the inboats at 2 ohms and a dual 2ohm sub at 2 ohms. There are a lot of options.
You also need to buy another amp to run whatever doesn't get power from the PG amp.100-300 depending on what you get.

To move the battery you will have to custom make new battery cables that are longer and will run from the starter/block up to the observers area. Not too hard but kind of expensive with cable prices these days. Use a perko by itself or buy a VSR that automatically separates/combines the batteries.


By the way don't mistake me for a stereo expert. My last setup consisted of a set of crappy old fusion tower speakers on a ten foot pole hooked to a crunch amp with an ipod hooked directly into that.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-28-2011, 7:02 PM Reply   
Jeff,
I provided a rough product/price template over on TMC where you posted the same questions.
If I knew how to drag that response over here I would. Hope it helps.
David
Earmark Marine
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-28-2011, 7:18 PM Reply   
CUT and PASTE works pretty good for that task
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-28-2011, 7:40 PM Reply   
Brett-Yes your low budget idea was inline with mine!

Here is Davids post!

jman,
Here's more of an application-driven approach letting the prices fall according to that. It may not fit your budget exactly but its just one template and can be re-prioritized.

You will want a second battery for sure if you are playing at rest for more than a couple of minutes. Keep it simple with a dual battery switch. The most important cables are the positive and ground between your battery and engine/alternator/starter. If the factory is a decent gauge then I might add a second battery near the existing battery. If it needs upgrading then I might relocate the starting battery along with a stereo battery up front. In that scenerio you will also have to re-route the helm buss supply. In any case, when you consider the supply to the stereo you will have to make an investment in at least one long and heavy power cable run.

Your alternator is likely on the lighter side in that year so I would prioritize system efficiency beginning with the amplifiers. Alpine has a fullrange 5-channel Class D amplifier that will easily run a sub and four couckpit speakers. You could get this job done with a 3 or 4-channel amplifier but I like independent coaxial channels for the dash and rear cockpit coaxials anytime you have dash-mounted speakers. Speakers tend to sound a bit erratic in the mid/treble when reflecting off the windshield glass so its nice to tone those down a bit and its an advantage to be able to correct for the positional dis/advantages between the dash and lower rear coaxials. You'll get a good ambient effect this way.

If that is the last year of the elevated floor hump under the driver's dash then mounting a sub enclosure is more of a pain but you do have a comfortable amount of space up there to downfire a healthy 10-inch sub enclosure. And, in that boat a 10-inch sub loading over the top of the hump sounds larger. My recommendation would be to go with a quality, custom, waterproof polyurethane-coated (like Rhino bed-liner) sub enclosure rather than an off-the-shelf automotive box. A entry level JL Audio sub driver will do a great job in this application.

For the tower, I would begin with a single pair of really good tower speakers (quality over quantity) that are run by your existing P.G. 4-channel amplifier bridged in the two channel mode. You can always expand later. The Exile SXT65 surf speaker is a great place to begin.

I can't tell you what your local mobile electronics dealer might actually charge for this type of system but so far at the manufacturer's recommended pricing you are under $1150.00 for a pair of tower speakers, custom box, sub driver and 5-channel amplifier. You'll have several hundred dollars in wiring and audio related accessories plus the second battery, battery box, wiring, connectors and battery switch. So about $1500 minimum thus far if you can limp along with your present HU as an ipod pass-thru. If not, a Kenwood marine source unit with an Aux-In and a remote control provision is not much more than $100.

That's a start.

David
Earmark Marine


I responded to David over on the malibu crew with if he had any ideas about keeping it simpler and trying to stay around 1k. Anybody else have any more ideas for me! Thanks WW

Jeff
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-28-2011, 7:44 PM Reply   
Yes try the classifieds or craigslist. That is your best bet in accomplishing a system on a $1k budget.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       06-28-2011, 8:07 PM Reply   
Along these lines is it ok practice to use a 4 channel amp with the front two channels powering the in boat speakers and the rear two channels powering the tower as long as you don't wire the speakers up in such a way that they are below the rated impedance for the amp?

I'm envisioning 2 4 ohm speakers on each channel wired in parallel for a 2 ohm load on each channel. I'd loose fade control front to rear but will retain the ability to use fade to control the tower speaker volume relative to in boat.

Is this a totally ghetto way to handle this?
Old    Chris Bolding (chris_b)      Join Date: Feb 2007       06-28-2011, 8:39 PM Reply   
I just replaced all of my stereo in my 01 wakesetter. I also went ahead and moved my batteries and built an amp rack. For the sub I went with the Kicker L7 12. Here is a quick pic. Good Luck.
Attached Images
 
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-28-2011, 8:40 PM Reply   
Jeff, what kind of power does the pheonix gold amp push? What model is it?
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-28-2011, 9:30 PM Reply   
Chris- that setup looks sweet! That would definitely be ideal for me! Im sure it was a pretty penny?

Brett- the amp is a Ryval V754. These are the specs I found online.

Ryval Series 4-Channel Class AB Car Amplifier
RMS Power Rating:
4 ohms: 75 watts x 4 chan.
2 ohms: 130 watts x 4 chan.
Bridged, 4 ohms: 250 watts x 2 chan.
Max power output: 500 watts x 2 chan.
LED power and protection indicators
Remote Monitoring Display (RMD) Port
4/3/2 channel operation
Speaker-level input
Preamp RCA outputs
Extruded aluminum heat sink
3 Position crossover configuration switch
Switchable high-pass filter (100 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Variable low-pass filter (40-400 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Frequency response: 20-20000 Hz
Efficiency: 100 dB

It doesnt sound like the greatest amp but I got a good deal on it a few years back so thats why I went with it. Is this amp usable?
Old    Jay Wedsted (jbird)      Join Date: Jun 2011       06-29-2011, 3:01 AM Reply   
I'd just get 4 pairs of Polk db's for in-boat, and the tower ($400), run em off the existing amp. Get a 10" sub and another amp, extra battery, and perko switch. You may have enough for new HU which can make a big diff!
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-29-2011, 8:52 AM Reply   
What about this setup for a real cheap HLCD setup?

Keep your clarion in boats or upgrade to Polk DB650s for ~150
Same amp as you have-$140-http://woofersetc.amazonwebstore.com/B000VL0RFG/M/B000VL0RFG.htm
sub-JL 10W0- single 4 ohm~$100
Kicker KTM6 or KTM60-500-550 on David's site.

At that point even if you upgrade the interiors you are only out about $950 in components and you replace all your speakers and add an amp. You could also buy a set of regular coaxial speakers like the Wetsounds, Exiles or Bullets. A set of those all run about $500. I guess you would want to decide what you want to get out of the tower speakers. Do you want soemthing you can hear clearly boarding or something that sounds good in and around the boat for surfing or partying. So, you could do one amp bridged running 200+ watts to each tower speaker. Then the other amp would have 2 channels run at 2 ohms giving you 65 watts per interior speaker. Bridge the other 2 channels to run 250 watts to the W0 sub. This wouldn't give you the adjusting options for the interiors like David brought up but would give you a lot of power to the towers.

Another option like Dave was mentioning would be

keep interiors
10W0 sub-~100
SXT 65 or XST65 or Bullet 650HPcoax or KMT6/60s or JL 7.7 tpwer speakers in pods form onlyinboards- All between 500-600
Alpine class D 5 channel-400 from David's site.

At that point you would be right about 1000 and have a better quality amp and the same tower speakers as the other options. I would assume the best way to wire these woudl to run your PG amp at 4 ohms to the 4 interior speakers, bridge the 4 channels of the alpine to 150x2 and run the 200 watts of the subh channel to the W0. This would give you the option to adjust front to rear on the interiors liek David suggested. Obviously none of this includes the sub box or extra battery and cables/install accessories. Sounds like either way you are going to be $1500 or so when all said and done.
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-29-2011, 9:46 AM Reply   
Brett you are the man! This is a great post! I am going to seriously consider these options!
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-29-2011, 9:48 AM Reply   
Jeff,
Several of the keys to getting value when you are on a limited budget is to first prioritize and second not replace what you already have that is acceptable or at least operational for now. The original Infinity marine speakers had a continuous midbass driver and a grill-mounted tweeter. So until UV has taken its toll you will find these speakers to be superior to most anything available at a lower price point.
If you avoid listening to the stereo while parked you can skip the second battery/switch for now as long as you keep the current draw conservative.
You can run that P.G. amp at 2-ohms on all channels and drive four in-boat speakers and two or four tower speakers. However, that amount of power spread thin isn't getting you anywhere.
You can always address the subwoofer later.
So for example, if you wanted to prioritize tower speakers as your primary objective, you have all the budget required to make an impact with real quality gear.
If your existing four tower pods are the right displacement then the Kickers are definitely the entry point into quality HLCDs.
With this approach you won't collect equipment that you are unhappy with in a short period and you won't collect equipment that proves to be obsolete as you grow your system. But you have to decide where you most want to make an impact instead of scattershooting your budget around with no real impact.
Many light years ago I built a few awesome car audio systems one component at a time as budget permitted. Its the same way I built my first and serious home Hi Fi system making no compromises along the way.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-29-2011, 9:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanst15 View Post
Brett you are the man! This is a great post! I am going to seriously consider these options!
Like I said I am not a stereo guru by any means and I am just throwing out options. I would listen to David and use his advice before mine.

How are you going to use your tower speakers? for wakeboarding or for surfing/partying?
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-29-2011, 9:51 AM Reply   
Also, with the amp that I have, could i run a pair of good tower speakers? I am not too sure on how i would hook them up(bridge, parallel).I have two channels right now dedicated to the inboats and 2 channels running to the tower.
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-29-2011, 9:58 AM Reply   
David that is exactly what I was just thinking about. Trying to prioritize and probably skip the sub and batter/switch for now. As for my cans, i have only two older cans. The cans are both holding 2 speakers(forward and rear facing). I dont really like the look of them but im sure a nicer speaker with a better grill would update them nicely. But if I was gonna go with some quality speakers for now it would be nice to go with a little bit larger speaker than a 6.5. So maybe 7.7 or an 8in speaker to get a little more sound, correct?

Brett-You guys are both throwing out great ideas, and I think i would like to hear them for wakeboarding more than surf and party. My friends and I do not that detailed of an ear for sound. I just would like it to be clear and loud.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-29-2011, 10:02 AM Reply   
David, what are your thoughts on the KTM6 and 60's? A few years ago those were very popular options for the budget minded person who wanted HLCD's so the wakeboarder could hear.
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-29-2011, 10:04 AM Reply   
What about a single pro 485. I love the looks and it seems everyone says that its the best out there?
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-29-2011, 10:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmanst15 View Post
David that is exactly what I was just thinking about. Trying to prioritize and probably skip the sub and batter/switch for now. As for my cans, i have only two older cans. The cans are both holding 2 speakers(forward and rear facing). I dont really like the look of them but im sure a nicer speaker with a better grill would update them nicely. But if I was gonna go with some quality speakers for now it would be nice to go with a little bit larger speaker than a 6.5. So maybe 7.7 or an 8in speaker to get a little more sound, correct?

Brett-You guys are both throwing out great ideas, and I think i would like to hear them for wakeboarding more than surf and party. My friends and I do not that detailed of an ear for sound. I just would like it to be clear and loud.
In that case you probably want to try and focus on HLCD's instead of Coaxials unless the coaxials have gotten a lot better as of late. If you kept just your current amp I don't think you have the power to run 4 inboats plus a set of HLCD's. You could buy a set of HLCDs and add a good 2 channel amp. ARC audio amps seem to be popular on the site and don't break the bank like some of the other brands. David's site has Pro60's for 800. Not sure if he has a decent amp that will push those for around 200 although the amp you have will fine with the channels bridged. So there you have 800 for the 60's plus under 200 for the same amp you have.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-29-2011, 10:18 AM Reply   
Jeff,
From what you have stated you should easily find a pair of used Wetsounds Pro80s as these are big 8-inch HLCDs and one pair will get the job done at wake range. Plenty of these are available as many are upgrading to the Rev10s. Your P.G. amplifier will be bridged into two channels and do a very respectable job on the tower.
Then add a 5-channel amplifier to the in-boat so you are prepared for the eventual sub. Trust me, you will be getting a subwoofer in time.
A piece at a time you will end up with a final system that you are really proud of.
So when you are prepared post your email address and you should have a few Pro80 offers coming your way soon after.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-29-2011, 10:25 AM Reply   
Jeff,
Yes, a single Pro485 is in your budget range also. A new Wetsounds Pro485 with a 360 watt mono amplifier (2-channel bridged) is under $900. Again, this keeps you in the larger 8-inch HLCD category.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-29-2011, 10:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_e_m View Post
Jeff,
Yes, a single Pro485 is in your budget range also. A new Wetsounds Pro485 with a 360 watt mono amplifier (2-channel bridged) is under $900. Again, this keeps you in the larger 8-inch HLCD category.

David
Earmark Marine
Is that with the JL A/B amp?

That sounds like a great way to go if Jeff likes the look of the 485. Dave, do you have a package for the 485 with that JL amp for under $900? I see on you site it says $900 just for a 485. If under 900 for the package that seems like a really great way to get good quality products that are brand new. I guess he will have to use his PG amp to run interiors and a sub when he gets one or buy a sub and another amp.
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-29-2011, 10:36 AM Reply   
David what about the KTM6 and the KTM60? I just read alot of reviews on them and people are saying that they like them alot. And on ebay you can get two pair of ktm6's for 199 SHIPPED! People are saying they dont look the best but seem to have nice sound when tuned properly.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-29-2011, 10:38 AM Reply   
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/2459337893.html

A used set of Bullet 770's for 550 in the Seattle area.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       06-29-2011, 11:10 AM Reply   
In the Audio classifieds section of this site there is a pair of Exile XM7s for $650 or a pair of Wet Sounds Pro 80s for $750. However I would go the pro 485 route you are considering. We had one before adding some rev 8s next to it and it was plenty loud all by itself at 80ft when riding. Lots of places will work with you on the price so I am sure you can get a 485 and an amp for $900. Also scour your local CL. There are usually about 500 different sub and amp combos on there for dirt cheap. Then you would just have to get a marine capable box.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-29-2011, 11:22 AM Reply   
You can't argue with the value of the KMT6s. They have a tricky impedance dip that requires a large two channel amplifier in most cases. If you are going to bridge a 4-channel its got to be extra stable so I wouldn't use the P.G. on those. While these are horn loaded they are not an HLCD but will project better than two pair of conventional coaxials.
I like the used Bullet HP 770 HLCDs. They are much larger in surface area than a 6.5" and 80 percent of an 8". Loud enough to project, good midbass and warm enough to listen to near field.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Johnny Neves (johnny_jr)      Join Date: Mar 2006       06-29-2011, 11:25 AM Reply   
Jeff you are fairly close by, you can PM me and have a listen to a couple different options at our shop. We have 2 display boats, one running Exile another running Wetsounds. Or drop me a call at 408-230-3093.
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-29-2011, 4:00 PM Reply   
Thanks Johnny. I will have to see if i can stop by or hit you guys up when I am ready to commit to something. We had our system put in by you guys a couple years back. We bought/were given all our equipment and you guys did the A+ install!

+1 for johnny and Liquid Trends!
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-29-2011, 4:01 PM Reply   
I think I like the Pro 485 route! anyone got one????
Old    Scott (pdqwrx)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-29-2011, 11:34 PM Reply   
Pair of REV8's beats a 485 hands down.... In my opinion!

Scott
Old    Johnny Neves (johnny_jr)      Join Date: Mar 2006       06-30-2011, 11:07 AM Reply   
pdqwrx - I will agree completely. Rev8s rock!!
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-03-2011, 12:03 PM Reply   
Alright guys here's an update. So i was able to get some brand new pro 60's that had never been used! I couldn't pass them up for 450! Now....will I be able to power these with my current amp. I have the capability to send 130w at 2ohms. Pro 60's are rated for 150w RMS. Am I ok for now to under power them? This obviously will not be ideal for them as they can handle more power, but will under powering them hurt?

So for now I took care of the tower speaker question. Now its on to the sub. I would like something that fits underneath the driver and not in the passenger side storage area. Any recommendations?

Jeff
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-03-2011, 12:12 PM Reply   
Also my headunit is an extremely old JVC unit that is not really meant for an ipod. I have my ipod hooked up using a PAC cable that goes thru the cd changer port. Will I benefit from changing my head unit. When I plug in the 30 pin connector, ALOT of static and hissing comes through the system. When the 3.5 mm jack is used this clears up. Is this a bad ground?

If a HU is beneficial, which ones would you guys recommend? Preferably something that fits in my same single din pocket on the arm rest.

Jeff
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-04-2011, 11:09 PM Reply   
anyone got any ideas or info?
Old    Chad Taylor (cmtaylor777)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-06-2011, 2:16 PM Reply   
I'm selling these. They would work well for your in-boat speakers.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/ele/2467623672.html

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