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Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-21-2011, 6:28 PM Reply   
2011 x 35 at my daeler for $136k. Am I the only one that thinks boat prices are out of hand.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       06-21-2011, 6:34 PM Reply   
136k!? now i understand why the AZ MC dealer went under...
Old    Jon (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       06-21-2011, 7:57 PM Reply   
I think they are insane. Even the "budget" boats are 50k.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-21-2011, 8:54 PM Reply   
Got to pay the legal fees.....
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-22-2011, 5:29 AM Reply   
MC is going for the 250k plus crowd where if it costs more it has to be better, The worst part is the resale of a 135k boat , Not much chance for financing unless you slash the price.
Old    Davis (Texan)      Join Date: May 2011       06-22-2011, 7:05 AM Reply   
Keep em going up... my old SANTE is worth more with every price hike.

But yes prices have gotten simply out of hand, and will as long as someone is willing to pay that..... However there is also a strong price point boat market emerging with Axis, Moomba etc... It is a showing sign that the top of the line boats are reaching their price limits.
Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       06-22-2011, 8:54 AM Reply   
^^ x2
Old    Shawn B (ShawnB)      Join Date: Oct 2010       06-22-2011, 9:26 AM Reply   
There's a whole segment of customers that live in lakeside multi-million dollar homes. There's MasterCraft's target market. Someone will buy it and they will likely only pay 110 for it.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-22-2011, 9:33 AM Reply   
Roughly 5-7% of people (households) in the U.S. are making 200k+ (lets say their target market) so that means that there are about 18.5 million people able to buy their boats new... and maybe of that 18.5 million only 5% care about boating (let alone a small wakeboat) ... so within that 5% you've got ~1million people able and willing to buy their boats new.

Its a niche market but someone has to provide for it. Its nuts to you and me, but its peanuts to someone.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-22-2011, 9:51 AM Reply   
I need to go buy an old SAN, Xstar, VLX or Sanger V210 before the prices go up.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-22-2011, 9:59 AM Reply   
fyi, just because you make 200k a year does not mean you get to keep that money. after taxes etc etc the average 200k income is about 120k take home. 10k a month then put into play the payment on a 10yr loan on 130k is 1500 a month. There is still a very small market for that price point maybe 1% i would bet that there are very few 100k boats being ordered by dealers
Old    Shawn B (ShawnB)      Join Date: Oct 2010       06-22-2011, 10:58 AM Reply   
They only build about 4000 boats a year...
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-22-2011, 11:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
just because you make 200k a year does not mean you get to keep that money
What ?! I'm the only one not paying taxes?!?!?! .....f.y.i. everyone knows that.
... point being is there are plenty of people making enough to afford one - just comes down to is that what they want to spend their money on. Although I think spending 100k+ on a boat that does the same exact thing as a 50k boat is stupid, a lot of people have more money than brains and like to show that off.

Even thinking as little as .1% of people over 200k want a wakeboard that would leave 21,000 people.... split that 3-ways (wakeboats big 3) and you're still looking good at 7,000 people that.

To selltheir build number of 4,000 boats a year that would mean only .06% of those over 200k would want a wakeboard - also assuming 2 out of every 3 could buy other brands.
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-22-2011, 11:36 AM Reply   
A guy I know just bought a brand new 2010 X35 that was on the local MC lot. What makes this even better is he waited about 8 months for his new 11' Tundra to arrive and pulled his brand new boat up to the interior which has some pretty good hills. He didn't like the way it pulled so he turned around and got rid of it for a brand new 11' Dodge 3500. He barely had the Tundra for a couple months. I wish I had that kind of money. He's 32. Oh, and we live in Canada where both boats and cars are quite a bit more than the US.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-22-2011, 11:48 AM Reply   
similar story....

I guy down the street from us just bought his new lake house (My dad was the real estate agent) and his son/family wanted to start with water sports so I just said make sure you get an inboard boat - and if wakeboard/surfing is #1 get a v-drive.

Well like a week later 3 new jet-skis are parked out there (I would guess 20k + lifts)
..Later that week a new MC Tourny Team shows up
... then a bennington pontoon boat
.... then randomly I see a brand new X-star out on the lake, sure enough got rid of the MC TT and got an X-star.....

not to mention his extra garage with a porsche gt3, extra escalade hybrid (keeps here for towing the boats), and new Z06 with like 4 4-wheels and 3 snoiw-mobiles behind all these cars.

The guy is stupid rich and I honestly have not seen him drive the same car in 4/5 weekends of him coming up
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-22-2011, 12:03 PM Reply   
these people with the house on the lake, cars, boat etc etc are making alot more that 200k a year. That was my point. If you had a ton of money and can afford to dump it go for it, but most people who just crest the 200 k marker are not blowing it like those who have millions. The flip of it, is those who are making 200k plus are usually working there butts off to make it and have little time to enjoy there toys.
Old    Drew Pancoast (dru1974)      Join Date: Nov 2009       06-22-2011, 12:04 PM Reply   
Wife
And I make 200k and take home is 11-12 and I am the happy owner of a moomba ls 2010. Couldn't imagine spending 110 k. Wowsers
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-22-2011, 12:16 PM Reply   
i fall in that range, i took 3 months to get a repo enzo 09 sv23 ( new boat) and have a payment thats 600 a month, and i thought that was way too much. I even stole the boat for over half price off sticker. i have bought a few expensive things over the years, and for being 36, alot of fam and friends think i am crazy, but 130k for a boat that will loose its value overnight, it does not make sense, unless you have so much disposable income and it doesn't matter
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       06-22-2011, 1:27 PM Reply   
I'd be VERY surprised if 5-7% of households were making $200k plus. Maybe in certain states, but not the country as a whole.

Anyway... $130k is ridiculous for a wakeboat, but people will still want it, and people will buy them.
Old    Brett Burrows (Riteride)      Join Date: Sep 2010       06-22-2011, 1:34 PM Reply   
Gotta charge those prices when you get sued for 30 million...
Old    Ty (wakeandsnow27)      Join Date: Jun 2004       06-22-2011, 1:42 PM Reply   
A large majority of the people buying those boats are doing so "corporately" for their "corporate" retreat lake house.
Tax loop holes (and dishonesty) fund many businesses and fuel people's elaborate lives.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-22-2011, 1:56 PM Reply   
top 1% of all taxpayers earn $380,354 or more and top 5% of taxpayers earn 159,619 or more via IRS statistics. If that is the case, the "250K plus crowd" is probably somewhere around 2-3% of tax payers. FYI there are about 131,000,000 tax returns filed each year. Knowing that, gives us a total of about 4 million households earning 250,000 or more. Much less than the 18.5 million assumed above. I dont know what that does to your theory, but there ya go

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pa...ome-taxes.html
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-22-2011, 1:58 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeandsnow27 View Post
A large majority of the people buying those boats are doing so "corporately" for their "corporate" retreat lake house.
Tax loop holes (and dishonesty) fund many businesses and fuel people's elaborate lives.
I am not so sure about that. i am sure it happens some times but definately not the majority.
Old    Ty (wakeandsnow27)      Join Date: Jun 2004       06-22-2011, 2:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
I am not so sure about that. i am sure it happens some times but definately not the majority.
I should have said a large number. my bad.
I can tell you when I get a 6 or 7 figure purchase for a project at my business, a large number of the purchases are made by the clients corporation or LLC.

I did a project for (at the time) the largest home in Paradise Valley AZ and the loop hole joke they pulled to pay for everything was so clever and sarcastically funny we all died laughing when we saw the name of the LLC the checks came from.
Old    Jay Wedsted (jbird)      Join Date: Jun 2011       06-22-2011, 8:48 PM Reply   
And conversely, the prices of used boats are on the rise!
Old    Dave Diaz (wakebrdr94)      Join Date: Jul 2010       06-22-2011, 10:45 PM Reply   
why wouldn't you use a LLC? A lot of asset protection vs having everything in your own name. The only people who can really break an LLC is the IRS. It's all a game, the more of their rules you can use in your favor the better.

Last edited by wakebrdr94; 06-22-2011 at 10:47 PM.
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       06-23-2011, 1:32 PM Reply   
Well the numbers above are all off as MasterCraft has only built around 1800 boats the last couple years. The crazy thing is that is still more than any other manufacturer of inboard boats.
Old    TN22            06-23-2011, 3:16 PM Reply   
Why do people buy a Bentley or a Ferrari instead of a Ford? To make sure other people know that they are better than them because they have that much money to burn.
Old    Rob.B (rbeckei)      Join Date: May 2007       06-23-2011, 4:23 PM Reply   
^^^^^^ Mastercraft is just a ford it is not a Bentley or a Ferrari. Mastercraft is no better then some of the other brands. They just want you to think it.
Old    david pierce (desotodave)      Join Date: Mar 2009       06-23-2011, 8:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravity View Post
2011 x 35 at my daeler for $136k. Am I the only one that thinks boat prices are out of hand.
Gravity, you must be here in Utah. The local MC/Centurion dealer here is just NUTS on how much they think their boats are worth. I think they also have dealerships in Spokane and Seattle as well. I have a Centurion Enzo I bought the year before they got the dealership, and now I could never afford my boat!
Old    Chris (gravity)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-24-2011, 1:07 AM Reply   
Im in spokane. Its gu colors with a gu logo on it. Power tower and all. I like to have nice things but there comes a piont where you can't really be getting all that you paid for.
Old    Shawn B (ShawnB)      Join Date: Oct 2010       06-24-2011, 7:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason95gt View Post
Well the numbers above are all off as MasterCraft has only built around 1800 boats the last couple years. The crazy thing is that is still more than any other manufacturer of inboard boats.
That's crazy, Jason, I didn't realize it had gotten so low. In 2007 they were reported to have built 3600 boats and now they're only building half as many? No wonder they brought on Hydra...
Old    Tommy Boy (twelve02)      Join Date: Aug 2010       06-24-2011, 1:50 PM Reply   
I think the used boat market is going to be where it's at. People can no longer use their homes as bank accounts. I am in the top 2% of tax payers and there is no way in hell I'd pay that kind of money for a luxury item. In fact I own an 8 year old boat and 2-5 year old vehicles that I paid cash for. We live in a very modest home that allows us to live a very nice life-style to travel whenever and wherever we want. I guess it all depends on what makes you 'happy'. For me, it's the freedom from debt. and a very nice-sized bank account. All the Big boat manufacturers are crazy to have boats in that price-range. I will applaud Malibu for the 'Axis' line, that makes sense.
Old    Rob McMichael (mcmichael13)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-24-2011, 1:59 PM Reply   
I personally think the engineering alone of Mastercraft doesn't deserve what they charge. My friends had an 05 x-star that constantly broke down (so of course for christmas 2 years ago their parents ordered them an 09 x45). I have ridden behind much much smaller malibu and supras and I like the wake much more. I don't have to worry about the tower feeling like its about to be ripped off the boat at every pull either. For the money, Mastercraft is not engineered well and those big boats produce massive, but not exactly good, wake. I'd much rather go for one of the other brands.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-24-2011, 3:18 PM Reply   
^You can't be serious.

I love all of the typical MC hate on this board.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-24-2011, 4:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakecumberland View Post
top 1% of all taxpayers earn $380,354 or more and top 5% of taxpayers earn 159,619 or more via IRS statistics. If that is the case, the "250K plus crowd" is probably somewhere around 2-3% of tax payers. FYI there are about 131,000,000 tax returns filed each year. Knowing that, gives us a total of about 4 million households earning 250,000 or more. Much less than the 18.5 million assumed above. I dont know what that does to your theory, but there ya go

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pa...ome-taxes.html

that's not combined though right, that's individual isn't it? not that it matters, just curious where i fall!
Old    David (whelchel86)      Join Date: Jan 2011       06-24-2011, 8:58 PM Reply   
Lon buys them in pairs
Old    Joel Treiger (spf2275)      Join Date: Mar 2011       06-24-2011, 9:00 PM Reply   
I'm amazed at how much MC hate there is on this board. I find myself reading less and less here actually because of it. Funny thing is....most of the haters don't even own a damn boat! Professional forum readers and opinion givers.
Old     (tro)      Join Date: May 2009       06-24-2011, 9:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
^You can't be serious.

I love all of the typical MC hate on this board.
too funny. you were hating on Nautiques on another thread and you're laughing at someone hating on MC here. classic.
Old    Drew Pancoast (dru1974)      Join Date: Nov 2009       06-25-2011, 8:50 AM Reply   
I. Believe those would be household incomes.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-25-2011, 10:22 AM Reply   
To each his own. If people are buying them, great. Keeps jobs here. If not, they'll either go under or lower prices.

Personally I don't think ANY new inboard is worth $60k+. There was a time when your average middle class person could afford a new boat, not anymore though. Standard is the only company I see making affordable inboards. i think they're priced a bit high for what amounts to a brand new SN2001, since you can get a fully restored 2001 for about half what a Standard costs. I'd wager most people on here bought their boat used, at least 3-5 years old. After that point the price is at least within reach of normal people.

Everyone seems to want loaded luxurious boats, to the point that I sometimes wonder how much riding people that buy these things actually do. Aside from Standard, there are no bare bones functional boats made just to ride. If Standard takes off and sell at the volume they can produce, maybe some of the big names will make some boats like that priced in the realm of reality. Moomba, Axis, and those are getting there but still crazy expensive and loaded with luxury features that people who just want to ride don't need.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-25-2011, 10:28 AM Reply   
"too funny. you were hating on Nautiques on another thread and you're laughing at someone hating on MC here. classic."

You need to freshen up on your reading comprehension. I wasn't hating on Nautiques, I was hating on people that think you don't own a boat unless it is a Nautique.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       06-25-2011, 10:52 AM Reply   
All bashing aside, I think someone should state why they think MC is worth the premium.

Having owned a 2006 X45, I do think that there were some parts that seemed better. The wiring in general seemed more organized than other boats I have been in. It definitely was a sturdy ride, with less rattles. I think the tower was outstanding and the board racks are amongst the best in the business, no bungees. The vinyl was durable and comfortable.

Frankly, I don't think it is worth 100K+. Malibu tells me a new 247 is 95K....why aren't we bashing them?

I do think that MC marks up their boats a considerable amount more than others, so someone with some good negotiating skills and luck can get the purchase price down very close to what the big 3 cost. But it depends on the market, if someone keeps buying them at the high price, they will stay up there. I suspect for Utah, Spokane and Seattle, they ordered the right number of boats, and won't be letting the price drop a whole lot.
Old    Dan (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       06-25-2011, 11:43 AM Reply   
The fact that people think that a list price is going to be a selling price proves how stupid about one third of this thread is. And to all the people thinking MC isn't engineered properly have the wits of an anchor. Go climb inside of other boats and see each manufacturing process, then you might have a mild education about something that is 'well-engineered.' No boat is perfect, and there are things about each boat brand that makes them all ****boxes. That being said, just about all boats are over-priced.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       06-25-2011, 11:34 PM Reply   
Would have purchased an X-25 this year, but the $91k boat show special + tax + fees ($100k+) out the door price tag I could not swallow. What a sweet boat, but wow, $100k? I about fell over when the sales rep told me this was the "special" boatshow pricing!

I guess everything happens for a reason, my '11 Malibu VLX was 35k cheaper and has been nothing but awesome this season. So far not one regret, I really like Mastercraft and there boats, but I do believe they are in a price range that does not justify the cost for what you are getting.

They must be selling boats, because they dont seem to be dropping in price.
Old    David Langston (rdlangston13)      Join Date: Feb 2011       06-26-2011, 12:51 PM Reply   
having looked at a lot of boats checking out all the little features I see why mastercrafts are more expensive than others. Now that being said I do not think 100k plus is justified but there is a clear difference between my moomba lsv and mastercraft x25 and its not really a quality difference as much as it is a gadget difference. both boat pretty much use the same engines and running gear, what makes the master craft so much more money is all the little neat novelties on it, the seats that flip up out of the rear sun deck, arm rests on the bow seats, removeable ski pylon, computerized screen in the dash that does everything, lights in the front of the speaker cans. i mean my boat doesn't even have perfect pass which i think is standard on a mc. but i think they are all too expensive, even moomba and axis are getting/already are too expensive. especially with the recession going on
Old    Rob McMichael (mcmichael13)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-27-2011, 9:08 AM Reply   
growing up my dad had a donzi ski boat... talk about quality! as an engineer... i just don't like the construction of the MC altogether. Some do. My friends have owned the x-star and now a X-45, both have given them a tremendous amount of headaches. The brand new boat didn't have an adequate cooling system on it and overheated constantly. The pumps on the ballast tanks have failed numerous times, and all the switches had to be replaced. the wakeboard rack knobs are already broken and the tower creaks and groans every pull. To me, that isn't quality construction. My brother's supra is really nice and was wayyy cheaper. Sure, he doesn't have standard underwater neons, or enough seating for the US Navy. But his wake is better and cleaner and the boat is more reliable. Same with the guy my other brother rides with down in NC. His malibu is a little older without all the bells and whistles and I prefer it that way. I absolutely love the Malibu's design for their tower.

I agree with what was said about everyone purchasing a used boat. When I finally get my own boat, I will most certainly be buying a used one. I want it to give me a good wake to ride for a reasonable price. I rode behind a 1962 glastron ski boat for a while (that was baller).

MC is a nice boat, I just think there are better ways to spend my money. Kinda like Porsche is a nice car, but I'm not going to go buy one. If you like it and can afford it, by all means go ahead haha I won't complain as long as there is some boat pulling me :-p
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-27-2011, 9:26 AM Reply   
"My friends have owned the x-star and now a X-45, both have given them a tremendous amount of headaches. The brand new boat didn't have an adequate cooling system on it and overheated constantly. The pumps on the ballast tanks have failed numerous times, and all the switches had to be replaced. the wakeboard rack knobs are already broken and the tower creaks and groans every pull"

Third summer of having an Xstar and have not had any of the issues you mentioned (to be fair, the fuel pump did have to be replaced). The motor nor the pumps on the ballasts are manufactured by MC, so why would that signify poor construction by MC. MC uses the same pumps many of the other manufacturers use so why would that be strictly a MC problem? As an engineer, you should have observed that instantly.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-27-2011, 9:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucemac View Post
that's not combined though right, that's individual isn't it? not that it matters, just curious where i fall!
Bruce, I have interpreted it to mean household income. Whether it is one, two or multiple incomes. The figures are based on tax returns, so I guess in theory if husband and wife filed seperate tax returns it would skew the results, but I doubt many couple do that.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-27-2011, 10:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Third summer of having an Xstar and have not had any of the issues you mentioned (to be fair, the fuel pump did have to be replaced). The motor nor the pumps on the ballasts are manufactured by MC, so why would that signify poor construction by MC. MC uses the same pumps many of the other manufacturers use so why would that be strictly a MC problem? As an engineer, you should have observed that instantly.
So a company is not responsible for the components they source and use in their products?
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       06-27-2011, 12:00 PM Reply   
""But his wake is better and cleaner and the boat is more reliable.""
Nothing against Supra, but you cant be serious about the wake being better than an X-star.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-27-2011, 12:07 PM Reply   
"So a company is not responsible for the components they source and use in their products?"

By all means, but do you say a boat is engineered poorly because of a failed ballast pump? If the boat was still in warranty, did MC not replace it?
Old    Rob McMichael (mcmichael13)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-27-2011, 12:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
So a company is not responsible for the components they source and use in their products?
Exactly. Engineering takes into consideration the entire system and the integration of every component for the end result. Just because they don't make the pump means nothing. From what I experienced they didn't select appropriate materials/parts when they themselves weren't .


Now, to be fair, the boat was run in salt water for a stretch of 3 weeks. The X-Star was not made for saltwater, but their X-45 has the "salt water package" which really is just a closed loop cooling system so no salt water is directly cooling the motor. But the cooling system was inadequate and we had to refill and bleed the system every time we went out. MC admitted it wasn't a good enough system and has been working on modifying it to fix the inefficiency. But on a boat that cost over 100k, that testing should have been performed already.

Now my experience isn't to say MC is a crap company. For example, I love my Honda cars. But the transmission in my prelude seized up the other week, I have had many things break, and some other issues. But the associated initial cost allows me to accept these failures. Also, the car is 14 years old (or older). I wouldn't expect this from the new TSX I've been looking at buying. The same logic applies here. If i buy a used boat, I will expect some issues, but the upfront cost allows for that. If I am paying a huge premium for a new boat, I want it to exceed my expectation, and from my experience MC hasn't done that. However, I am not discrediting any other person's experience with MC and how it hasn't given them any problems. Just stating what I have noticed.

I am not trying to convince anyone for or against buying MC. Buy whatever you like haha. If you like riding behind a MC the best, then by all means do it. That is why there are multiple companies, cause everyone is not the same. Can't we all just get along?
Old    Rob McMichael (mcmichael13)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-27-2011, 12:29 PM Reply   
Mike, the wake comparison was the supra verse the x-45. the X-star did have a much better wake than the x-45 but that is in direct relation to the enormous size of the x-45 and not being able to produce as clean of a wake with it.

Jeremy, point taken. But that wasn't the only issue I had with it. But like i stated above, I am not saying they are a crap company and no one should buy their boats (obviously someone is buying them...). I am just saying I don't think their entire engineering process is entirely equal to their cost to the consumer.

Last edited by mcmichael13; 06-27-2011 at 12:31 PM.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-27-2011, 12:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
"So a company is not responsible for the components they source and use in their products?"

By all means, but do you say a boat is engineered poorly because of a failed ballast pump? If the boat was still in warranty, did MC not replace it?
I did not say a boat is poorly engineered because of a failed ballast pump. At the same time, defending a boat's design/engineering by saying all the failures are sourced components and not truly Mastercraft's fault isn't great logic...
Old    Brandon Zubke (bzubke1)      Join Date: Feb 2010       06-27-2011, 2:13 PM Reply   
Kind of off the Mastercraft topic but if Correct Craft would bring back the original super air 210 hull and sell it as a price point boat (<50k) with only the options needed for a boarder (perfect pass, ballast) they would sell a lot of boats.
Old    Joel Treiger (spf2275)      Join Date: Mar 2011       06-27-2011, 2:24 PM Reply   
The initial price is rather irrelevant as long as the depreciation curve is consistent. If you paid 80k for a MC and later sold it for 60k it cost you 20k. If you bought a Moomba for 50k and sold it for 30k it still cost you 20k assuming that you didn't spend additional money on upgrades that you didn't get initially. I can't remember the last time I heard that a MC owner was selling their boat because they wanted to upgrade unless they were getting a bigger MC.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-27-2011, 2:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzubke1 View Post
Kind of off the Mastercraft topic but if Correct Craft would bring back the original super air 210 hull and sell it as a price point boat (<50k) with only the options needed for a boarder (perfect pass, ballast) they would sell a lot of boats.
It would be awesome if a new company would buy the 205V, SAN210(pre 06) and original Wakesetter VLX hull molds and start producing entry level boats. Have simple one color vinyl, a flat dash pod with old style round analog gauges, standard rocker switches, triple bag ballast, PP, tower and racks. They should be able to produce any of those three boats in a stripped down version and sell for 40k or less.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-27-2011, 2:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakecumberland View Post
Bruce, I have interpreted it to mean household income. Whether it is one, two or multiple incomes. The figures are based on tax returns, so I guess in theory if husband and wife filed seperate tax returns it would skew the results, but I doubt many couple do that.
thanks. i don't know if i should be happy or sad. happy because we're near the top, or sad because it doesn't feel like it and i don't own a $100K boat! oh wait, i've got 3 kids. lol
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-27-2011, 2:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by spf2275 View Post
The initial price is rather irrelevant as long as the depreciation curve is consistent. If you paid 80k for a MC and later sold it for 60k it cost you 20k. If you bought a Moomba for 50k and sold it for 30k it still cost you 20k assuming that you didn't spend additional money on upgrades that you didn't get initially. I can't remember the last time I heard that a MC owner was selling their boat because they wanted to upgrade unless they were getting a bigger MC.
That sounds all great but isn't reality. I believe almost all wakeboard boat manufacturer's have very similar resale values when using the only form of measure that works to compare. That is percentage. If someone bought a Moomba for 50k and had it for 3 years it is probably worth 35k. Someone who bought an Xstar for 85k probably sells it for ~60k 3 years later. I think most boats loose about 30% in the first 3 years with a lot of that occuring the second the boat has left the lot. From a percentage stand point you aren't any better. From a dollar stand point you are worse off with the Mastercraft or any other super high priced wake boat.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-27-2011, 3:08 PM Reply   
Hate to say it no they wouldnt because they would sell them above 50k. Just look at the X1 are there two hulls more popular over time than the 205v and the original 210? Try and get a brand new X1 less that 50k and hate to say it CC is just as expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bzubke1 View Post
Kind of off the Mastercraft topic but if Correct Craft would bring back the original super air 210 hull and sell it as a price point boat (<50k) with only the options needed for a boarder (perfect pass, ballast) they would sell a lot of boats.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-27-2011, 3:09 PM Reply   
This is why Axis is doing so well. They cant keep up with orders. Yeah the margin on the boat is not as much but they are selling 5 times what they would. Just a different mind set. MC,CC would rather do the opposite and they cant go backwards because it will hose all current boat owners.
Old    Joel Treiger (spf2275)      Join Date: Mar 2011       06-27-2011, 3:31 PM Reply   
Polarbill

My analogy wasn't consistant with the original question because it was based on my own research which didn't involve buying a new boat. I agree that the percentage of depreciation is the way to compare, however, stating that most boats depreciate at the same percentage is an inaccurate over generalization that also isn't reality. Car's don't all depreciate at the same rate nor do boats. If a more expensive boat holds a slightly greater resale percentage than a lesser expensive boat, the dollars in my opinion become negligible based on the difference in boats. To answer the question though of "who buys these"..... people that have enough money that money doesn't matter. The rest of buy one or two year old boats, let the original owner take the grunt of the depreciation and work out the bugs if there are any.
Old    SS (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-27-2011, 5:10 PM Reply   
The second a company strips the bling, detail, creature comforts, etc. out of a boat, people will start complaining that they're too basic or that the "fit and finish" isn't good enough.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-27-2011, 6:34 PM Reply   
all of this would balance out, if more people bought wake oriented boats. The % of wake boat sales are small, so these companies have a small focus, plus, most wake boats are sold to people who use them 10 maybe 20% of the time as a wake boat. Most are just used like i/o's. I agree that boat prices are too high, but that has to do with getting traditional boaters to see value in wake specific boats. Truth be told, its not going to happen. Its a small segment of the boating world and the older folks get, the more they move into crusers or pontoons. Just look at the lake every weekend.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       06-27-2011, 8:08 PM Reply   
Funny, even when I had an I/O that thing spent about 95% of it's time on the water pulling a rider, and the rest searching for flat water or going through no wakes to get to the good water. When I got my Saltare the boat was mostly restored with new stringers, floor, engine, etc. but upholstery wasn't don't We were sitting on bare plywood every time out last season until I had new upholstery done this winter. So I don't need creature comforts or amenities. A luxurious boat so far as I'm concerned has upholstery, a radio, and a little storage space. It's a wake boat not a cruiser, if I'm behind the boat I don't need any of that fancy expensive junk.

Give me a entirely composite construction bare bones boat with a big block, solid tower that folds low, and a nice wake and I'm happy. Would prefer vdrive but that adds at least $6000 to the price so not a necessity since I can put weight where I want it. Price it under $30k and I might consider buying a new boat. I'm the type to keep my toys forever, so if it'll do it's job and lasts you've got my attention. I think I'm in the minority though, so far as my boat is used only to pull riders and very rarely cruises around or ties up for partying. If I need a boat for cruising around or partying I'll buy a go-fast with twin big blocks and have a wicked fast boat and all the amenities of home. Why have a slow inboard without amenities if you're not using it for riding? Unless you're Lon and get an X80.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-29-2011, 6:01 PM Reply   
I've had my '02 SAN for the past 10 years, and before that had an MC. Both are great boats, and I think top notch manufacturers. That being said, if I was in the market for a new boat, there's no way I could justify spending that kind of dough, and would likely look at something like an Axis. My Nauty was $36k brand new as a dealer demo as a point of comparison...
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-29-2011, 6:36 PM Reply   
I am in and out of just about every brand of boat out there every day. I think they all are getting a little crazy with the cost of these things. But MC is taking it to a whole new level. Is a MC worth a such a "premium" IMPO NO. There is not really anything that seperates them from the other major brands. They dont hold their value % wise any better than any other boats in my area. I am not bashing them..they do alot of things well just cost more to do it thats all.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       06-29-2011, 9:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini88 View Post
The second a company strips the bling, detail, creature comforts, etc. out of a boat, people will start complaining that they're too basic or that the "fit and finish" isn't good enough.
You are exactly right. That is why Tige went from competing in a more budget minded arena to costing pretty well as much as the big 3. New RZ2 has a list price high 80's. Doesn't always sell for that much, but ...
Old    John Arnold (JohnAr)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-30-2011, 12:02 AM Reply   
Hell, you guys talking like $50k is a "price point boat" are even out of touch with reality. I'm in the top 5% of earners and I bought a used Moomba for $35k and that was a ton of money. It wasn't that long ago $35k bought a brand new boat and the mfg.'s were making money.

The prices now are just obscene. If bayliner make a decent v-drive "wake" hull with no frills, I would rock it.
Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-30-2011, 7:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAr View Post
Hell, you guys talking like $50k is a "price point boat" are even out of touch with reality. I'm in the top 5% of earners and I bought a used Moomba for $35k and that was a ton of money. It wasn't that long ago $35k bought a brand new boat and the mfg.'s were making money.

The prices now are just obscene. If bayliner make a decent v-drive "wake" hull with no frills, I would rock it.
Bingo. 50k for an entry level wakeboat is just plain sad. The issue is that is what the market will support. The Axis A20 is 45-50k, and they can't make enough of them; mainly because compared to 70k+ it looks like a deal.

As long as people are writing checks and taking out loans, it will continue to get worse. Check out this price from a 2006 boat show. It has only been 5 years, and you can barely get a no-option closed bow 2011 Ski Nautique for the same MSRP as a 2006 SAN 210 thats moderately equiped...
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Old    Nauti 210 (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       06-30-2011, 8:29 AM Reply   
ill take my 02 SAN 210 all day before dropping 80k on a new one. And you guys are right, that's exactly why Axis cant keep up with all the orders coming in. They have a decent looking boat, fairly equipped and you don't have to give up your first born son for it. If i was in the market, thats where i would be looking.
Old    Jeff Harter (jmanst15)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-30-2011, 9:03 AM Reply   
Around 2001-2004 pops and I were looking to get a new bu. We had a centurion, direct drive, and quickly out grew it. Our friends bought a used 01 vlx and we loved it. We started to look around for bu's and price tags were in the high 40's to low 50's. Since then, vlx price tag has gone up close to 25k. Thats insane. Economy tanks and housing prices are slashed. Economy tanks and boat prices double??? Makes no sense. But its like many other on here before me have said, the higher these boats climb into the "upper echelon" market, the more staying power i think they will have. Top earners typically are not losing their jobs and therefore can still afford the expensive toys. Low to mid level boats are bought mostly by people who are not top earners. When you lose your job your fun budget dramatically decreases. Its sad to say, but i dont think prices are coming down anytime soon. Especially for the big 3.
Old    Shawn B (ShawnB)      Join Date: Oct 2010       06-30-2011, 4:20 PM Reply   
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...k-balance.html
When I read this article I immediately thought of this thread...


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