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Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-03-2011, 8:20 PM Reply   
I've been casually looking for a new truck over the past few months. I've considered everything from cheap, used 1/2 tons, new 1/2 tons, and slighty used 3/4 tons.

The truck would become my daily driver (current dd is an '08 335i) and secondary tow rig (main tow rig is wife's Denali XL).

So this '08 F-350 Lariat catches my eye, and I go test drive it today. I think I'm in love! This is the first diesel I've considered... they always seemed like overkill for my purpose, but I've warmed up to the idea lately thinking that MPG's would be better than gasser... also cuz I love how tough they look.

So on the test drive I reset the MPG computer to see what I'd get. Over the course of the 30 minute test drive (mixed city and freeware driving), I logged 14.8 MPG. I was sooooo hoping it would be better. I always got the impression from you guys that diesels are great for MPG. But 14.8 is what I'm used to seeing on a 5.3, 5.4, and 6.2 gasser (I've owned them all).

What am I missing? Is this what I can expect from the 6.4?

Old    882001 (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       05-03-2011, 8:32 PM Reply   
6.4s get horible fuel mileage because of the dpf
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-03-2011, 8:35 PM Reply   
the 350 will have lower gearing in the dif, look into that because that would hurt the milage.

but the 6.4L wasnt the best on milage with the factory set up. To get the MPG up in that motor you need to gut the DPF and that cat. Adding an intake, tunner, and bigger exhaust would help.

I think thats the case with these motors especially. where as with the 7.3 and 6.0 it wasnt as huge of a jump when you let them breath.
Old    Jake (jdhart73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-03-2011, 8:40 PM Reply   
I have an 08 F250 with the 6.4L diesel. What 882001 said above is correct, stock with DPF you are going to get terrible mileage. The particulate filter along with the stock cat chokes the engine in an effort to burn clean. I ripped ALL of the above off and put on a Spartan Tuner, my truck now smokes like a diesel normally would and has over 550 HP at the rear wheels (dyno'd) AND gets about 17-18 MPG average. Thats running 20's with 35" tires and a 2.5" lift.
Actually looks similar to the truck in the picture you have there!

All that being said, do not buy one of these beasts if gas is even sort of a consideration. I get good mileage now but that was never a big selling point for me. I wanted to be able to pull a house off of its foundation and/or tow whatever the hell I wanted with no worries and it certainly does that. With the tuner I can smoke most vehicles on the road from the line as well which is fun if I get a wild hair!

Buy it, you know you want to!
Old    Jory (carcrz)      Join Date: Mar 2006       05-04-2011, 4:19 AM Reply   
The only diesel that you're going to get noticeable mileage in is the Cummins. I can consistently get 20-22 mpg on the highway and 17 in the city. Towing, I get about 16 in both. Our F350's at work get about 16 at best regardless of what you're doing.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-04-2011, 5:00 AM Reply   
O7 was the last good year for diesels then the emissions law changed. If you do the numbers with the added cost of the diesel, maintenance and fuel there is NO advantage to diesel money wise. Where they shine is long heavy towing nothing is better. If that matches your needs then look for a pre 07 if not then a gas will be overall cheaper .
Old    Jeff DeVeer (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       05-04-2011, 7:14 AM Reply   
You also have to factor in that in recent years diesel has been around 5-7% more expensive than regular unleaded. Beating a comparable gasser MPG by 5-7% (0.75-1.05 MPG @ 15 MPG) isn't a problem for most diesel trucks but you have to factor that in and adjust the mileage on the diesel downward accordingly. During towing the diesel will beat the gas truck by well over 5-7% so if a large percentage of your mileage is while towing you will see a bigger payoff.

I'd like to have a super sweet diesel truck but it's just not necessary and overkill for my application. I'm in IT and I'd be like the people who think that they absolutely must have a $1,500 laptop when the computer never leaves their desk and all they do is use MS Office and a mainframe terminal emulator. I tow my 23', 6,500 lb boat 2-5 times per month (Round trip 8 miles) and drive to and from work every weekday (Round trip 17 miles). It just wouldn't be worth the expense to go to a diesel (Vs. my gas 1/2 ton) given the fact that I'd be going to a 3/4 ton by default.

If I also had a travel trailer or I logged a lot more highway miles towing the boat it might be worth it given the fact that I would "need" a 3/4 ton at that point and most 3/4 ton gas trucks get pretty terrible mileage even unloaded. The diesel costs more on the front end but will generally be worth more when it comes time to sell so that money is not completely lost, just tied up in the truck for the duration of ownership.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       05-04-2011, 7:21 AM Reply   
IXFE find yourself a 07 Dodge Ram with the 5.9L. It is a split year when they went to the new motor. They are like gold right now, but you will get 20 mpg+ with the right mods on it. The motors are bulletproof too.

On a side note - I am picking the wife up a 135I this weekend so we can have a little race before you get rid of that 335.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-04-2011, 7:28 AM Reply   
The DPF issue didn't even come into play on that short drive, that's just the mileage that you will get on short trips with a diesel unfortunately. That is a sweet truck though and they have tons of power!
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-04-2011, 7:28 AM Reply   
Thanks for the comments. I truly don't "need" an F-350, I just really liked this particular truck and wanted to justify it somehow. I know it's not a fair comparison, but my current dd gets me 22 mpg on premium. So I was hoping the diesel would be close to 20 mpg like I see people claiming so that I could mentally justify the big truck.

Sure i can afford the extra fuel... but with our other vehicle being a 6.2L Yukon, I just feel guilty getting another guzzler when it's not absolutely necessary, as much as I love it.

We'll see... I really do want a truck. And this is the first one I've seen in months that really lights my fire.

Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-04-2011, 8:15 AM Reply   
DBC, PM the VIN and I will pull an oasis on it to see what has been done to in under warranty.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-04-2011, 8:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebeaverandboats View Post
but the 6.4L wasnt the best on milage with the factory set up. To get the MPG up in that motor you need to gut the DPF and that cat. Adding an intake, tunner, and bigger exhaust would help.
This particular truck has been certified pre-owned. So that means I get an extended 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. I'd love to do the mods, but wouldn't that void my warranty?
Old    Stanfield (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       05-04-2011, 8:36 AM Reply   
I had an 08 6.4L Ford for a year or two. I put less than 15k miles on it before selling it and it had to go in for warranty work numerous times. The gas mileage sucks in stock form for a diesel and the "cleaning exhaust filter" nonsense that was supposed to happen every 5-10k miles according to the manual, happened more like every 500-1k miles. I loved the truck itself, but I'd never recommend that motor to anyone and would personally run far away from it. I know you can modify it like some have mentioned and get rid of said issues, but you'll never get warranty work done on it if there is one. Mine was purchased new with a warranty so I couldn't mess with it. Having to do so many mods to a new truck is just silly anyways.
Old    Stanfield (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       05-04-2011, 8:39 AM Reply   
To add to that, if I had to do it all over again, I'd look at pre 07 diesels that didn't have all the nonsense on them that they do now.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-04-2011, 8:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
This particular truck has been certified pre-owned. So that means I get an extended 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. I'd love to do the mods, but wouldn't that void my warranty?
yea it would, which is definitely a bummer. I hate to say this, but if I were you, and wanted a warranty, I would not buy the 6.4

with my 02 7.3L I can get consistent 17mpg at altitude in the city and similar milage when on the highway at 80mph through hills. When its flat and I keep the rpms right on the highway I can get about 21.
Old    Timmy! (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-04-2011, 9:21 AM Reply   
Just to add more...you don't buy a diesel truck for the non-towing mileage, you buy it because you will get a little better mileage towing and TONS of power. Even in stock form that truck will blow the doors off of your Denali and make it feel like an inferior "truck". I don't know what kind of mileage you get towing with the Denali but you get 9-10 in stock form on that truck. You might as well buy a camper if you get that truck because once you get a diesel, you feel like you should just go out and rip out trees, haul the heaviest stuff you can and tow things that ordinary trucks dream about. LOL! (ok, maybe that was a tiny bit of an exaggeration)
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-04-2011, 10:25 AM Reply   
My '06 was a good performer compared to my 5.3 Tahoe in the fuel mileage category. I recently replaced it with a Rover with the 4.4 Jag based motor. The Rover is averaging 16.2 MPG. The F250 got 16.6 MPG. With the cost of gas the Rover is actually cheaper to operate and a MUCH better daily driver. Do I miss the power? Do I miss the utility? Do I miss the interior space? Sure, on occasion I miss all these things, but I really don't miss the truck. It was my dream truck to have as a spare vehicle, but as my daily driver I was over it. Having to plan parking out got old. We ended up driving my wife's Audi everywhere we went.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-04-2011, 11:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by guido View Post
My '06 was a good performer compared to my 5.3 Tahoe in the fuel mileage category. I recently replaced it with a Rover with the 4.4 Jag based motor. The Rover is averaging 16.2 MPG. The F250 got 16.6 MPG. With the cost of gas the Rover is actually cheaper to operate and a MUCH better daily driver. Do I miss the power? Do I miss the utility? Do I miss the interior space? Sure, on occasion I miss all these things, but I really don't miss the truck. It was my dream truck to have as a spare vehicle, but as my daily driver I was over it. Having to plan parking out got old. We ended up driving my wife's Audi everywhere we went.
Thanks for the reality check... I mean that. I love trucks, but I think I need to think through the reality of having one for my daily driver. It will be a big change for me, and quite frankly, total overkill.

I do want something that can tow the boat in a pinch (secondary tow vehicle). I've been thinking about the new Jeep Grand Cherokees, but they cost quite a bit more.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-05-2011, 12:52 AM Reply   
I daily drive my F350, and its great when diesel isnt as expensive as it is now. I can go about a month+ without filling it up as long as Im easy on the throttle and dont take any long trips (lake, fishing, something like that)
Old    Matthew Melvin (melvinator)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-05-2011, 10:57 AM Reply   
My 2001 cc 4x4 got around 14-15 before I put on a cold air intake and a better flowing muffler(about $250 total). Now I get about 15 in town and 17 easy on the highway if i keep it under 70. Talk about a power increase too! Maintence is not that bad, oil changes cost a S#!t ton, 15 quarts of oil!!! Everyone wants 4 door 4x4 trucks right now so diesels are going a bit cheaper. Unless you tow a long way or a 5th wheel a diesel is overkill. I towed my wakesetter for 10 years with a 1994 grand cherokee 4.0!
One plus parking the beast is that you get good excersice walking in from the parking lot.

Most of the guys who brag about those high mpg numbers are either lying or they have 2wd regular cab sticks with a low ratio rearend.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-05-2011, 11:02 AM Reply   
When gas is as exensive as it is now my diesel stays int he drive way other than to tow the boat. I typically get about 16mpg in my 01 Dodge 2500 as long as I don't hammer it. My job currently has be driving almost 100 miels a day, so i don't use it as my daily driver, but used to
Old    Matthew Melvin (melvinator)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-05-2011, 11:40 AM Reply   
I just bought a klx300 dual sport motorcycle, 65 mpg baby!!! My diesel will stay put as well except for towing.
p.s. If you can get your hands on enough used grease you can make your own bio diesel for about $1.00 a gallon. I was going to but all the grease around me is spoken for.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-05-2011, 2:01 PM Reply   
Yeah, no problem on the reality check.... When I bought my F-250 I never planned on daily driving it. I had a M3 at the same time, but sold it for a down payment on my house. I drove the Ford everyday for 2 years. Right through the 5+/gallon for diesel. It got expensive, for sure. I really loved that truck, but realized that I wasn't towing much with it. In fact I towed less with it than I did with my Tahoe before it. That was the final kicker. It was just a waste and it was kicking my butt over the rough mountain highways during the winter. The big trade off was not being able to haul my dirtbike in the back. I got a hitch hauler for the Rover and never looked back. I'll probably pick up a utility trailer to do the yard/dump duties, but one can be had for under $1k and it's easier to store and cheaper to own than a second vehicle. Plus I can tow up to 7700 lbs with the Rover. That covers basically anything that I'll tow. It's not the same as being able to do 70 up hill passing people with a boat in tow, but it's just not worth it for the 1 time/year that I did it.

Now... If money were no object and I could have whatever I want, then my wife would be driving the Rover, I'd drive a E63 Benz and have a '11 F-250 sitting on the side yard for hauling my dirtbike, boat and for yard projects. Don't get me wrong... Diesels are every bit as bada$$ as everyone makes them out to be, just not as a daily driver in a suburban area.
Old    kvoman (kvoman)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-05-2011, 2:12 PM Reply   
Here's another way off the reservation thought...if you really want a daily driver but also a diesel, how about a VW Jetta TDI or Gold TDI????? Just saying...

34 City/42 Hwy, about 600 miles per tank. Diesel costs about 10% more than premium but you get almost double the miles per tank.
Old    A.J. West (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       05-05-2011, 2:34 PM Reply   
I'll vouch for what a few have said about the Dodge Cummins 5.9L. I bought my '07 Dodge Megacab and was given the choice of old reliable 5.9L or new 6.7L. I took the 5.9L and get 21 hwy and 18 in town and about 14-15 towing. I don't like quadcab Dodge 2500 series but the Megacab is so roomy...the back seats recline.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       05-05-2011, 3:27 PM Reply   
Thanks for all the comments.

It's funny how quickly my moods shift. This thread has made me completely forget about a big diesel. As you can see, I'm easily influenced...

My current thoughts are:
  1. 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland - love the 5.7L Hemi, panoramic sunroof, ability to tow, and utilitiy of the space behind the backseat (golf clubs, kids sports gear, folding chairs for the 4 little league games I attend weekly, etc.).
  2. 2011 F-150 Platinum Eco-boost - I thought I was over these trucks, until my buddy just grabbed a new one this past weekend. It's so sweet. And gas mileage is better than diesel so probably a better daily driver if I really want a truck.
  3. Keep my 335i. I'm so sick of the tiny trunk, tiny back seat, and how driving low to the ground makes me a victim to every pothole, rock flying through the air, etc. But damn this car looks and drives so fast when it's all cleaned up.

Why do I do this to myself...?
Old    Troy Huhmann (1niceharley)      Join Date: Feb 2010       05-09-2011, 7:39 PM Reply   
I vote for the Eco-boost. I really liked the one I test drove. But on a side note, love our diesel Excursion!
Old     (Thrall)      Join Date: Oct 2010       05-17-2011, 8:57 AM Reply   
No pickups are going to get the mileage of your bimmer, maybe eco-boost?, time will tell.
My 02 Dmax CC, 4x4 got an honest 17-18mpg combined driving, 21-22mpg cruising country roads at 55-60mph, 16-17mpg running the freeway at 75-85mph and 13-14 towing a Prostar 190 at 75-80mph.
My 07 Dodge, 5.9 mega, 4x4, 6speed gets 16-18 combined driving (winter fuel/summer), 17-18 doing 80 down the freeway (summer), 12-13mpg towing an 06 X2 @ 75-80mph. Can squeek 20mpg out of it at lower highway speeds as well.
Overall, don't plan on getting better than 17mpg overall out of most any big 4x4 diesel pickup, less with 6.4 Fords....alot less according to friends that have them, and less with some of the earlier dpf emissions trucks, 07-08, but seem to have gotten better in the recent years, back up to what the non dpf trucks would get.
Gas fullsize pickups, I think are all dismal mileage, imo. I've had enough 5.4L F150s and F250s to choke a horse and they all got 11-13mpg highway, not towing.
Old    GD (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-17-2011, 7:58 PM Reply   
IXFE, where did your thread on your new MB go? I was diggin that thread!
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       05-17-2011, 10:36 PM Reply   
^ X 2. I can't find it, but I liked watching the build and MB changes. What happened?

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