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Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       04-05-2011, 11:19 AM Reply   
Never ever see a cigarette butt again ???
I have an idea for a c.r.v. (cash redemption value ) of 2 cents for all cigarette butts.
Now people will pick up cigarette butt like thy pick up aluminum cans ,it`s that easy ,and then recycle the butts into palliates or lawn chairs or something else
i need money for lawyer & a chemist to make it happen ~ill get a 100% suppoort from ``the surfride fondation ~being a surfboards manufactior for 35 years ~please vote for my idea this is going to change the world,
it's against the law to smoke in a bulding ,but you can throw your butts anywhere ,and thats against the law too,,,we need this now,because "we all live down stream" ,,,just look around...

The voting starts 5-1-11 on pepsi refresh {cigarette butt} serch
ill let everyone know where to go ,so start spreading the word,tell your friends,last time i missed out by 3 place's
thanks moose
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       04-05-2011, 11:25 AM Reply   
]Befor
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Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       04-05-2011, 11:27 AM Reply   
After
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Old    SamIngram            04-05-2011, 3:18 PM Reply   
Da Moose,
I like your enthusiasm, but the idea needs work.

With aluminium cans, the aluminium in the can is worth what they pay for the cans. There is a market for recycled aluminium. With cigarettes butts I can't figure out what the market would be. Who do you suggest pays the two cents per butt? The government can't, they are already broke. How would you count the butts? With aluminium cans you simply weigh the cans.

Keep coming up with the ideas...

If you really believe in an idea you can start a kickstarter page.

The Ipod Nano watch kickstarter page raised almost a million dollars when they only needed $15,000

Kickstarter page for Nano Watches
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-05-2011, 3:52 PM Reply   
Be nice if it could happen. Seeing a butt fly out a window sitting at a stop light really grinds my gears.
Old    SamIngram            04-05-2011, 4:11 PM Reply   
What does a cigarette filter do? Doesn't it just promote more smoking? I think the filter stops some of the chemicals in the cigarette from getting into your lungs. Does it only stop "bad" chemicals, or does it stop the "good" or desired chemicals too? If it stops all the chemicals doesn't it just rip off the smoker by letting less of the good stuff into their lungs causing them to have to smoke more?
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       04-05-2011, 6:19 PM Reply   
SAM ,IT'S A DONE DEAL I WENT TO "KICKSTARTER" SENT IT IN,, NOW I WAIT .
I WAS DOING SOME CUSTOM GLASS WORK FOR A HUMMER CUSTOM SHOP LAST WEEK ,THERE'S A PICTURE OF "TERMANATER" ON THE WALL
JUST ONE PERSON AWAY FROM SOME KIND OF BIG TIME HELP ,WHO KNOWS ,MEET "Da Snake" last week
IF YOU LIKE THE IDEA ,,,WRITE {I LIKE IT} JUST WANT TO SEE IF PEOPLE LIKE Da IDEA
Old    Jos (jtnz)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-05-2011, 7:38 PM Reply   
Cigarette butts are commonly made from cotton, and paper, and not much else, they mainly trap tar from the smoke. If you can make something out of that good luck to you. Maybe resin infused fibres would make good chairs although I think the pallet idea is probably more likely to work.

http://www.buttfree.org.au/about-but...g/impacts.html

I know that our local council pulls around 2000 butts out of the harbour every week.

There is a guy somewhere whose job is to pick up litter like this. Should really be the people that don't work and rely on the state to pay them for nothing out there cleaning that crap up and earning their money.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-06-2011, 5:59 AM Reply   
This would be just another socialist program. The money would come from somewhere, likely an additional $.40 tax on cigarettes, + whatever government overhead in this program, so likely another $.60/pack on top of that. So $1/pack in taxes to maybe stop some amount of litter.

This is similar to the states that impose a tax on plastic and glass bottles that you can get a redemption for returning to the state. It's a terrible socialist program. When I vacation in states that do this I hate going to get my money back for recycling. It takes forever to do with the automated machines, which won't take all types of bottles and often don't work properly. Then I have to wait around to get someone to come out and count my recycles and give me the cash redemption value. It's absurd. It's far easier for me to just throw it all in the truck and bring it to the dump for recycling. Just a quick sort of plastic type and glass types and throw in the appropriate bins... but I don't get my money back that the State taxed me upon purchase.

I'll tell you this, and it's coming from a smoker. I used to keep all my butts. It irritated me when people tossed them wherever. I would throw mine in a trash can, an ash tray, or if none were available I'd always have a small ziplock baggie or a soda bottle with me to put them in, and dispose of them later. Since government imposed fire safe cigarettes on us, which contain additional chemicals and taste terrible, I just throw them on the ground. If government is gonna force this fire safe nonsense on me, I'll take their word that no fires will be started and I'll throw my butts wherever instead of being responsible about my litter and ensuring I don't start a fire. The nanny state is babysitting me so I'll trust they know best. Note that I don't throw butts in waterways, I don't want to ride in that junk.

Aside from that, if you want to stop cigarette butt litter, don't ban vaping (electronic cigarettes). I vape and have cut back significantly on my smoking. Used to be pack a day, now at times I'll go several days without a cigarette. I enjoy vaping as a healthier alternative to smoking and if I decide I really want to, it shouldn't be difficult to completely give up cigarettes. The same government that you want to tax us for redemption value on cigarette butts and interfere in one more aspect of our lives is trying to ban vaping. Their main claims (as with prohibition of anything) is the unknown health affects and enticing children.

While the long term health effects of vaping may be unknown, we all know the long term health effects of smoking... A slow and miserable death from emphysema and cancer. The ingredients in the juice we vape are in the food we eat, aside from the nicotine (which is very similar to caffeine). It is illegal for children to purchase vaping hardware or juice, just as it is illegal for them to purchase cigarettes. Beyond that, the high startup costs of vaping would be prohibitive for children ($7 for a pack of smokes vs. $60 - $200 to get into vaping) as well as the lack of local suppliers in most areas (need to order online with credit card, etc.)

The sale of vaping equipment is banned in some areas already and others (mostly liberal/socialist States) are pushing for bans. If vaping is banned, those who have switched to vaping as an alternative to smoking will go back to smoking. This is waht the government wants as tobacco is a profitable industry that sends a lot of money to government, both through lobbying and taxes on cigarettes. Prime example, after sharply raising cigarette taxes last year (over $1/pack increase), NJ is considering lower cigarette taxes to increase sales as they have noticed a decline in revenue generated on the taxation of cigarettes. That right there shows it's all about money, not public health, not public cleanliness, and certainly not freedom and respecting the natural rights on man.

Bottom line, I believe this idea is a bad one.
Old    Rob Flaherty (mc_x15)      Join Date: Jul 2008       04-06-2011, 6:09 AM Reply   
I hope you had someone proof read your proposal before you sent it in. I like your passion for helping the environment.
Old    J Brewer (wakecumberlandky)      Join Date: Feb 2011       04-06-2011, 6:43 AM Reply   
I didn't read the long post... looks like someone trying to justify there reasoning for littering... which is never justified.

On a side note... provide links in the future so we can check it out further.

Sounds like a good idea... as long as its not gov't funded... we are already broke!
Old    Jordan (hogger)      Join Date: Sep 2008       04-06-2011, 8:47 AM Reply   
Just a heads up. In Washington State the fine for tossing a lit cigarette out your window is over $900.
Old    SamIngram            04-06-2011, 9:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakecumberlandky View Post
I didn't read the long post... looks like someone trying to justify there reasoning for littering... which is never justified.

On a side note... provide links in the future so we can check it out further.

Sounds like a good idea... as long as its not gov't funded... we are already broke!
Let me get this straight... you admit that you didn't read the long post, but then criticize him for what he said? Then you go on to parrot the same exact idea that is in the long post?

Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know, I usually am.

I looked through all the new kickstarter pages and couldn't find it.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-06-2011, 10:29 AM Reply   
I read what he wrote and he justified littering. He said he throws his butts on the ground because the govt forces him to smoke "fire safe" cigarettes.

Quote:
Since government imposed fire safe cigarettes on us, which contain additional chemicals and taste terrible, I just throw them on the ground. If government is gonna force this fire safe nonsense on me, I'll take their word that no fires will be started and I'll throw my butts wherever instead of being responsible about my litter and ensuring I don't start a fire.
Old    E Double U (three6ty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       04-06-2011, 10:58 AM Reply   
Moose- This is your best Idea yet. Good luck moving forward with it!!! Nothing I hate more than cigarette smoke, and the butts thrown everywhere!!!
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-06-2011, 1:32 PM Reply   
"Since government imposed fire safe cigarettes on us, which contain additional chemicals and taste terrible, I just throw them on the ground."

WTF is wrong with you??? What next? "Ever since Miller Lite went to the new wide mouth can, I just throw my empty's on the ground."

If they taste so terrible, why don't you just quit? That way you don't keep polluting the Earth, as well as risk causing a wildfire.
Old    J Brewer (wakecumberlandky)      Join Date: Feb 2011       04-06-2011, 2:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIngram View Post
Let me get this straight... you admit that you didn't read the long post, but then criticize him for what he said? Then you go on to parrot the same exact idea that is in the long post?

Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know, I usually am.

I looked through all the new kickstarter pages and couldn't find it.
I have since read the post and I did not "Parrot" the same idea as him... me saying gov't funding may have been misleading. I would not be opposed to taxing cigs even more... then maybe it will cause people to quit since they cannot afford them any longer. I do on the other hand oppose a tax to clean them up that someone other than a smoker pays. Tax the person throwing on the ground and maybe they will think twice.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-06-2011, 3:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
"Since government imposed fire safe cigarettes on us, which contain additional chemicals and taste terrible, I just throw them on the ground."

WTF is wrong with you??? What next? "Ever since Miller Lite went to the new wide mouth can, I just throw my empty's on the ground."

If they taste so terrible, why don't you just quit? That way you don't keep polluting the Earth, as well as risk causing a wildfire.
Your analogy is flawed. Government does not mandate wide mouth cans. If I drank Miller Lite and didn't care for their new can I could get Miller Lite in a bottle and still enjoy the same product, or alternatively drink another brand of beer that came in a form factor I wanted. The wide mouth can does not change the ingredients in the beer nor does it change the taste.

With fire safe cigarettes the government has mandates that all brands of cigarettes be fire safe. This is accomplished in a number of ways, typically a combination of thicker more glossy rolling paper and some extra chemicals to slow the burn. Ironically since the mandate of fire safe cigarettes the cherry will often fall from the cigarette while ashing and smolder on the ground, causing a fire hazard if you don't notice and stomp it out. This is something that never happened with normal cigarettes.

As for quitting, I don't necessarily have a goal to quit but I have cut way back as it interferes with my riding. I mentioned vaping as an alternative to smoking. Instead of 4000+ poisonous carcinogens you are inhaling a couple harmless ones. FWIW I haven't had a cigarette in over 24 hours, and may not have another until Friday night when I crack a beer (a good micro brew IPA, not a Miller Lite)

Last edited by cadunkle; 04-06-2011 at 3:28 PM.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-06-2011, 3:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakecumberlandky View Post
I have since read the post and I did not "Parrot" the same idea as him... me saying gov't funding may have been misleading. I would not be opposed to taxing cigs even more... then maybe it will cause people to quit since they cannot afford them any longer. I do on the other hand oppose a tax to clean them up that someone other than a smoker pays. Tax the person throwing on the ground and maybe they will think twice.
Maybe not the same, but some similar ideas were expressed. As for raising cigarette taxes to stop people from smoking... Firstly, no man has the right to impose on another man what he can or cannot do to his own body. The natural rights of Man are what this country was founded on.

I'll go out on a limb here and take a guess that you aren't and never were a smoker. Nicotine affects the body very similarly to caffeine, though it's a lot more addictive. If cigarettes were $20/pack people would still smoke, if they were $40/pack people would still smoke. People would cut back in other areas, as they have while cigarette taxes have risen over the years. Cigarettes are not a luxury for a smoker. You need them and if you don't have any you immediately go get some so when the next craving comes you have them. They are in the same category as food and water.

In the worst case you would see crime increase as poor smokers would become like many illegal drug users, resorting to crime to get enough money to get their fix since their drug of choice has had the price artificially and significantly inflated by government. You would see a black market in cigarettes be created, where more organized crime and smuggling rings are created to fill the gap and provide affordable "tax free" cigarettes for prices well under the artificially inflated prices to purchase them legally. It would just be expanding the market for the drug cartels and smuggling rings. No matter the price, no one will quit smoking unless they truly want to for their own reasons.

Government will not raise taxes to that level though as they know what will happen, and they are enjoying the profits. As I said, NJ may lower cigarette taxes to increase revenue, as people are illegally buying them in other states and bringing them back into NJ to save several dollars per pack (for example $7.50 in NJ for the same pack of smokes you can get in PA for $5.25, or even less in DE). I wouldn't be surprised if vaping is outlawed everywhere eventually, in part due to the lost "sin tax" revenue. Vapers do not inhale 4000+carcinogens, they don't suffer from lack of oxygen in the blood, shortness of breathe, and other symptoms of smoking, and they also don't have any waste to dispose of as smokers do (cigarette butts). Vapers don't pay sin taxes though.
Old    J Brewer (wakecumberlandky)      Join Date: Feb 2011       04-06-2011, 5:10 PM Reply   
I was a smoker then switched to dipping... i have kicked both habits for a little over a year now.

I do agree with you that it doesn't matter the price people will still buy them.

Maybe since they are "enjoying the profits" now they can use that money to help fund something like was suggested by da moose...

When I cut grass one summer I would get so pissed off when i hit a butt someone threw out the car and it went PUFF... The bottom line is if you can prevent from littering then do it. By throwing your cigs on the ground b/c the government mandates something doesn't prove anything... just makes you look childish. If you want to change the law take proper action and go through the proper lines of communication like da moose is doing with his project.

Im not saying these things to start a argument or cause you to rant it is merely my little opinion.
Old    SamIngram            04-06-2011, 5:20 PM Reply   
From Wikipedia...

Cigarette filters are made from cellulose acetate and are biodegradable,[57][58] though depending on environmental conditions they can be resistant to degradation. Accordingly, the duration of the degradation process is cited as taking as little as 1 month to 3 years[57] to as long as 1015 years.[58] One campaign group has suggested they're never fully biodegraded.[59]
This variance in rate and resistance to biodegradation in many conditions is a factor in littering[60] and environmental damage.[61] It is estimated that 4.5 trillion cigarette butts become litter every year.[58] In the 2006 International Coastal Cleanup, cigarettes and cigarette butts constituted 24.7% of the total collected pieces of garbage, over twice as many as any other category.[62]
Cigarette butts contain the chemicals filtered from cigarettes and can leach into waterways and water supplies.[63]
Cellulose acetate and carbon particles breathed in from cigarette filters is suspected of causing lung damage.[64]
Smouldering cigarette butts have also been blamed for triggering fires from residential fires[65] to major wildfires and bushfires which have caused major property damage and also death[66][67][68] as well as disruption to services by triggering alarms and warning systems.[69]
Many governments have sanctioned stiff penalties for littering of cigarette butts; Washington State imposes a penalty of $1024.[70]
Cigarette butt is one of the most commonly found litters on the street. Most high-rise littering also relates to cigarette butts.[71]
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       04-07-2011, 9:08 AM Reply   
CoryD, the government mandating a firesafe cigarette gives you good reason to throw garbage on the ground? Damn, the government mandates a lot of things, I'm curious as to which ones you pick and choose to justify your other disgusting habits?
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       04-07-2011, 9:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadunkle View Post
Maybe not the same, but some similar ideas were expressed. As for raising cigarette taxes to stop people from smoking... Firstly, no man has the right to impose on another man what he can or cannot do to his own body. The natural rights of Man are what this country was founded on.
What planet are you from? Whatever you think your natural rights are, they aren't protected in this country.

The Federal Supreme Court has even ruled that as a defendant you don't have a right to evidence that can prove your innocence. Even in some states where medicinal marijuana is legal, you are denied the right to grow your own. I can't think of anything that violates your right to Life, Liberty, and Happiness more than denying you the right to grow a natural plant for yourself that is already recognized as legitimate medication that you have been prescribed. That is other than throwing an innocent person in prison and denying them the right to prove their innocence.

It's hard to believe that people would still cling on to the idea that smoking is a legimate protected right to any extent other than what the law specifically allows.
Old    Da MOOSE (da_moose)      Join Date: Feb 2004       04-07-2011, 4:00 PM Reply   
Sam,kickstarter turned down the idea ???? they will steal it like all my other idies have been
Old    SamIngram            04-07-2011, 4:10 PM Reply   
Kickstarter doesn't turn down ideas, as long as it meets the basic guidelines they will post it. It is up to people to decide if they want to pledge or not. You may need help getting it formated correctly based on your posts here. If you want I'm sure the people on this forum can help get it formated and submitted correctly.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-07-2011, 5:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan View Post
CoryD, the government mandating a firesafe cigarette gives you good reason to throw garbage on the ground? Damn, the government mandates a lot of things, I'm curious as to which ones you pick and choose to justify your other disgusting habits?
It's as good a reason as any. I used to go out of my way to make sure I never threw cigarette butts on the ground. If government is going to mandate these nasty fire safe cigarettes I'll toss them on the ground. They are assuming that I am, since a properly disposed of cigarette will not start a fire... So I'll just toss them wherever they expect me to... On the ground. Throwing cigarette butts is not a disgusting habit I ever had, it was a reaction to government's mandate of fire safe cigarettes.It's entirely intentional, as I used to go out of my way to not litter.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       04-07-2011, 5:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
What planet are you from? Whatever you think your natural rights are, they aren't protected in this country.

The Federal Supreme Court has even ruled that as a defendant you don't have a right to evidence that can prove your innocence. Even in some states where medicinal marijuana is legal, you are denied the right to grow your own. I can't think of anything that violates your right to Life, Liberty, and Happiness more than denying you the right to grow a natural plant for yourself that is already recognized as legitimate medication that you have been prescribed. That is other than throwing an innocent person in prison and denying them the right to prove their innocence.

It's hard to believe that people would still cling on to the idea that smoking is a legimate protected right to any extent other than what the law specifically allows.
I agree. Our government, as disgusting as it is, does not recognize our Natural Rights. I will still exercise them though, at least to the point that government won't lock me up at gunpoint. I have read extensively about numerous cases of innocent men convicted and served time for crimes they did not commit because the corrupt courts would not let them show the jury evidence that proved they were innocent. Welcome to the Union of Socialist States of America. Just because that's what it is these days doesn't mean I'll give up my beliefs of individual liberty as it would only get worse faster.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       04-07-2011, 6:29 PM Reply   
"Your analogy is flawed. Government does not mandate wide mouth cans."

Well, the government mandates how much ethanol goes into gasoline. Are you going to start going to the gas station and spray it all over the ground after you fill up your car?

Look man, the federal govt doesn't give a sheet if you litter. You trying to prove an awful point, but you are getting back at the wrong person (Mother Earth). It's like going to beat up your friend Paul because Fred pissed you off. Or invading Iraq after the Taliban attacked us.

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