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Old    Peace (ALWakePEACE)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-22-2011, 4:17 PM Reply   
I have a 2006 Nautique and it currently has a pair of Rubicon 250s? (They don't make them anymore, but it seems like 2 Rubicon 150s connected so all in all its four 6" speakers and four tweeters. I posted the picture of what they look like below) Not sure on the exact model number. I can't hear them whatsoever while riding and was either going to replace them and get something like the wetsounds double up or 2 485's, or the other option was put something like the wetsounds pro 80s on the outside of them... Anybody got some advice? I really would like some sound back there while riding and the rubicons are brand new (thanks to warranty) and haven't even been installed so I hate to let them go to waste. Thanks in advance.

-Peace

Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-22-2011, 4:47 PM Reply   
Hayes,

If you want unrivaled performance at 80 feet back. The pair of 485's is perfect. And your tower is one of the best to fit them. I would see if you could go that route and sell the Rubicon's off. Since they are brand new, should be pretty easy.

I don’t like mixing conventional audio and pro audio on the towers. So I would not run a hybrid type set up with the Pro 80’s on the outside. It does not balance well and is difficult to power as the speakers have different needs so you either under power or over power. Plus the pro audio speakers will walk over the conventional car audio type speakers so the car audio speakers will not wind up adding much.

The Double Up is our true wakesurfing system and party cove system. But it sounds like you are wanting more wakeboard range. So the 485 would be my choice followed by the 3-Some over the Double Up.

Let me know what amp is in the boat and we can see if you can re use the current amp. We run the SYN-4 for 400x2. You will need a min of 300 watts to each.

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old    Cole K (SkySki)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-22-2011, 4:52 PM Reply   
What are you using to power the 250's? I had a pair of 450's on my boat and could hear them great. I know my 450's were supposed to be wired at 3 ohms (yes, 3), and I had them wired for 2 ohm from the amps. Not sure how 250's are supposed to be wired. They will take the power.
Old    Brian (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       03-22-2011, 4:59 PM Reply   
No offense to Tim's 485's but I'd be a little worried about hanging 70 lbs on a tower regardless of the brand. My buddies tower just cracked. A lot of the mfg's are starting to get serious about max weight limits on towers. After you rack it out with boards and gear, it's carryin a bunch of weight.

There's a lot of talk about whats best out there and as much as I worry about weight on a tower, if ultimate projection is the key... I'd also give Tim's 485's two thumbs up. I dont wanna start brand wars etc...

Whatever speaker you put up there, make sure you power it properly. I wonder if you have a weak power source currently? and just need to repower or rewire?

Love that dog in the pic bro!

Last edited by brianinpdx; 03-22-2011 at 5:05 PM. Reason: .
Old    Peace (ALWakePEACE)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-22-2011, 5:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetsounds1 View Post
Hayes,

If you want unrivaled performance at 80 feet back. The pair of 485's is perfect. And your tower is one of the best to fit them. I would see if you could go that route and sell the Rubicon's off. Since they are brand new, should be pretty easy.

I donít like mixing conventional audio and pro audio on the towers. So I would not run a hybrid type set up with the Pro 80ís on the outside. It does not balance well and is difficult to power as the speakers have different needs so you either under power or over power. Plus the pro audio speakers will walk over the conventional car audio type speakers so the car audio speakers will not wind up adding much.

The Double Up is our true wakesurfing system and party cove system. But it sounds like you are wanting more wakeboard range. So the 485 would be my choice followed by the 3-Some over the Double Up.

Let me know what amp is in the boat and we can see if you can re use the current amp. We run the SYN-4 for 400x2. You will need a min of 300 watts to each.

Tim
Wet Sounds
Ahh, Tim! I was hoping you would post on this! I had your email address and somehow lost it. I have a buddy with the 2 pairs of 485s with the 420 equalizer and those things are amazing. Super expensive, but definitely worth all of the price. I understand what you mean though about the others overpowering the rubicons, the rubicons are not remotely close to as powerful as the 485s on my friends boat. I currently have a Kicker ZXM 700.5 on the tower and sub. Probably not close to enough to push the wetsounds. Let me know what you would recommend for just crisp, clear sounds while riding and still being able to use when parked. Thanks in advance.

-Peace
Old    Peace (ALWakePEACE)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-22-2011, 5:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianinpdx View Post
No offense to Tim's 485's but I'd be a little worried about hanging 70 lbs on a tower regardless of the brand. My buddies tower just cracked. A lot of the mfg's are starting to get serious about max weight limits on towers. After you rack it out with boards and gear, it's carryin a bunch of weight.

There's a lot of talk about whats best out there and as much as I worry about weight on a tower, if ultimate projection is the key... I'd also give Tim's 485's two thumbs up. I dont wanna start brand wars etc...

Whatever speaker you put up there, make sure you power it properly. I wonder if you have a weak power source currently? and just need to repower or rewire?

Love that dog in the pic bro!
Yeah that was what I was wondering about the underpowering part. It was professionally wired so I doubt that is a problem, but the power still worries me. Haha, thanks about the dog. My 2 year old lab. He is competing in the great outdoor games in the dock dogs competition. He's a freak about some water.

-Peace
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-22-2011, 5:18 PM Reply   
Tim, what is the absolute max wattage you would put on a 485 and not worry about damage. (I am talking about clean, unclipped power)
Old    Brian (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       03-22-2011, 5:26 PM Reply   
Heyes - I hate to say it, but sometimes professionally installed doesn't always mean what it should. It's easy to tell... just have a look at the exact model numbers / brand of amplifiers in play on the current setup. This will be important to know if you do go the 485 route.

Cheers!
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-22-2011, 5:50 PM Reply   
Jon,
A bridged Syn2 at 700 watts has been used on each Pro485. We've run at that level before and they will hold. But at any more power the speaker will get into some dynamic compression so that's about the limit. To tell you the truth I would personally go with that power in a heartbeat. Since I have zero tolerance for the sound of clipping I could safely run that much power for years of service without an issue. I can't say that would be the case with everyone though. Would I use the extra power to play louder? Not really. But the midbass attack and added dynamic range (contrast and clarity) is incredible at that power level with the extra reserves. If you ever get a chance to hear the Pro485s with an ultra clean and dynamic Super Audio CD where the recording was really well engineered, it would totally change your mind about how good an HLCD can sound. Its kind of a crime to hear this speaker run off a dirty download which is so common.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       03-23-2011, 7:02 AM Reply   
Jon,

David nailed it. We run dual SYN-2 in mono on the 485's for 700 watts rms to each for 1400 watts on the tower for those that want the absolte best. It is about headroom and dynamics. More so that volume. However, our most popular set up is the SYN-4 for 400x2.

Peace,

what amp do you have running the in boats now? Maybe you could flip that to tower duty and the 700.5 for the in boats. If that doesnt work. The SYN-4 on the pair of 485's is a perfect all around match up. Shoot me an email to twhite@wetsounds.com if you need to find a dealer or more info

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-25-2011, 11:43 PM Reply   
your boat with 485's will look something like this...
Attached Images
 
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-26-2011, 12:27 AM Reply   
totally off topic.....but that picture is sweet. Cool dog man!!!
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-26-2011, 6:21 AM Reply   
I concur with the 485s. I've had a pair of 485s on my last 4 boats. They are by far the best projecting speaker setup made. I've also used a syn 4 to power my pairs with no issues and with amazing results. For the sake of my ears I don't know if I could stand anything louder.
Old    Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-26-2011, 10:38 PM Reply   
Chattwake you said..."They are by far the best projecting speaker setup made" and "For the sake of my ears I don't know if I could stand anything louder"?

Will if your not looking for anything louder or a wider spectrum I might agree? But ...

I think more importantly then just louder is maybe getting more mid bass out to the rider and a wider spectrum of sound! I think NVS takes the cake! Size does matter when it comes to pushing sound out to the rider! NVS in my opinion is the best sounding tower speaker on the market right now. For riding I don't think theres a better speaker then the NVS Prodigy. BTW the Prodigy weighs in at only 25lbs( the 485 weighs 33.5lbs) and the Prodigy has a hang height of just 8.6" beating Wetsounds which hangs 11 inches! Plus they play louder but you said that didn't matter! lol

I saw an add on the Wakeworld home page a few weeks ago advertising some specials on NVS speakers too! You owe it to yourself to give them a listen and see why allot of us have chose to run NVS. Ask the boys at CIE why they chose to run NVS speakers on the Bone Crusher? Probably because they felt it was the best tower speaker set up!
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-27-2011, 2:03 AM Reply   
Do the Nvs speakers you recommend use the same size horn as a 485? Why are they lighter? I'm really not that familiar with nvs stuff because no one sells their speakers in my area.

As for the weight of the 485s, I had a pair on a cc 230 with the fct1 tower and never had any issues at all.

Last edited by chattwake; 03-27-2011 at 2:06 AM.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-27-2011, 6:55 AM Reply   
I have the same question as chatt I just finished doing my stereo upgrade which included a set of 485's I had them open to run wires for LED speaker rings and they are just two large woofers one large horn and plastic housings so I'm not understanding the weight difference between the NVS and the 485's.One would be led to think that NVS is using a 10" woofer of lesser quality than the WS eight inch woofer given the weight difference so could you please explain as we have no NVS dealers in our neck of the woods .They were my second choice in speakers but with no way to listen to a set I went WS
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-27-2011, 7:54 AM Reply   
Lighter weight and lower (less) hang height would both be pluses. I have never been 100% happy with my 485's (everyone else loves them, I'm just picky), but I have not put any real power to them either. My decision to go with them were based on price, availability, and recommendations from this board. I don't think you can go wrong with either.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-27-2011, 8:23 AM Reply   
An underpowered pair of 485s will NOT sound anything like what a correctly powered pair will. I know because I tried running a pair on my first 230 with the factory amp and was later immensely surprised at the sound difference I got from upgrading to a sync.
Old    Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-27-2011, 8:39 AM Reply   
Harold you said.... "One would be led to think that NVS is using a 10" woofer of lesser quality than the WS eight inch woofer given the weight difference"

Actually its the exact opposite! NVS uses a Neodymium Magnet which is not only allot lighter its more expensive. This is how they gain there weight advantage. The height advantage they gain through the design and shape of their enclousure which is one piece and not a clam shell like WS.

Something to think about... Everybody carries Wetsounds. Most dealers and high end stereo shops. So the speakers they sell for $1800 a pair WS can only charge around 60 points, wholesale price so about $1080 to the dealer so the dealer can make a profit as well! Out of that $1080 WS has to make a profit for themselves lets say they profit around 50% that means it cost WS $540 a pair to make or $270 per enclousure complete!(Total guess just industry averages) NVS doesn't have a huge dealer network because they put such high end components and parts in there speakers if they where to sell them through a dealer network and allow for a 40% profit for the dealer the speakers would cost almost $3000! Instead they chose to sell manafactureer direct cut out the middleman and past the savings on to us in quality components!
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-27-2011, 8:52 AM Reply   
The answer to the weigh question is a technology one. NVS invests in a much stronger magnet material and therefore is lighter. Neodymium (Nd2Fe14B) vs the more common Ferrite (Sr-ferrite) sometimes called Ceramic magnets because they are so brittle, are from 200-700% stronger.
I'm not totally positive on this but I think NVS is the only one using Neo motors on the Mid Bass drivers.
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-27-2011, 9:01 AM Reply   
Looks like I was asleep at the wheel. Thanks Robert, you beat me to the punch.
The business picture isn't something that gets much press but since Robert brough it up, NVS has not positioned ourselves to be on every tower, our goal from the begining has been to provide the best. not the most. Yes that may rattle a cage or two but when I say best it's the best in our eyes and ears. Many of the other offshore built products do a great job at what they were designed to do. If I didn't know about NVS I'm sure I'd have one of them.
Old    Chattwake (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-27-2011, 10:12 AM Reply   
Well, I'm not sure your numbers on wetsounds products are right. I'm not a dealer, so I don't know, but I doubt there's that much markup. Anywho, what would concern me about nvs is (a) not being able to hear before you can buy, (2) not having a local dealer for any warranty issues that might arise, and (3), the potential difficulty of reselling a lesser known product if you were to decide to go in a different direction later. On the rare occasion that I see used wetsounds stuff on craigslist or eBay, it always seems to sell high.

Now, I've not dealt with the guys at nvs, and I bet their customer support is great or i would have heard otherwise. However, I can tell you I am a 5 year repeat customer of wetsounds. I ask a ton of questions, and I'm probably a bit of a bother, but Tim, Justin, Omar, and the others I've dealt with have always offered me top notch, prompt, and informative service. Also, those guys take the time to educate their local dealers so they also can help the customer with many questions and install issues.

Sounds like you can't lose either way and there are pros of each choice.
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-27-2011, 11:32 AM Reply   
Chattwake, you bring up some good points. Firstly, I'm happy you are happy with your purchase(s). I can't say anything bad about Tim or WS products, or WS customer service. Selling a product mostly direct has it's challenges. To overcome most of them we have from the beginning offered a full refund, no questions asked except to learn and improve the product. I'll find some wood to knock on as I'm proud to say we have never had to honor that policy.
Questions? no worry as we are always available via phone, text, or email. I'm sure like most speaker people, we love to talk about it.
Lastly the resell; some of the fist generation NVS products have shown up on the net for sale in the past and typically go for around 60-70% of MSRP. We even offer to go through these units and will then put a warranty on them. I don't have any idea how that compares with other tower speakers.
Additionally, since we often get asked about "Deals, demo, or used" product, we have actually provided trade-ins on a few occassions. Not sure if anyone else does that.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-27-2011, 1:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006maliblue View Post
Harold you said.... "One would be led to think that NVS is using a 10" woofer of lesser quality than the WS eight inch woofer given the weight difference"

Actually its the exact opposite! NVS uses a Neodymium Magnet which is not only allot lighter its more expensive. This is how they gain there weight advantage. The height advantage they gain through the design and shape of their enclousure which is one piece and not a clam shell like WS.

Something to think about... Everybody carries Wetsounds. Most dealers and high end stereo shops. So the speakers they sell for $1800 a pair WS can only charge around 60 points, wholesale price so about $1080 to the dealer so the dealer can make a profit as well! Out of that $1080 WS has to make a profit for themselves lets say they profit around 50% that means it cost WS $540 a pair to make or $270 per enclousure complete!(Total guess just industry averages) NVS doesn't have a huge dealer network because they put such high end components and parts in there speakers if they where to sell them through a dealer network and allow for a 40% profit for the dealer the speakers would cost almost $3000! Instead they chose to sell manafactureer direct cut out the middleman and past the savings on to us in quality components!
Robert - you seem to have some really inside info on NVS.

Which woofers and which horns are they using? Are we talking eminence stuff or some high end german lines?
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-27-2011, 2:25 PM Reply   
Thanks for the honest answers guys.I was on the fence as to which speakers to buy hang height had nothing to do with my choice but I can see how it would be important on other towers it came down to price. I wound up buying a used set of 485's the guys at wetsounds went through them checked everything replaced what was needed and put them in new housings although I have not asked yet I would bet they would warranty them if there was any problems so on par with NVS as far as service goes.I would love the hear the NVS now that I have heard the WS for comparison I purchased on blind faith mostly in part to the recommendations given on this fourm and others because we have no dealers with what I was looking for on display.To me the used WS were just less of a gamble having never heard either before
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-27-2011, 2:38 PM Reply   
Harold - you sound like you are good to go with the 485's. Wet Sounds warranty is great and they guys over there will bend over backwards to do the right thing when it comes to a warranty issue.

What amp did you decide on?

You will not be disappointed with your choice - they are the truest sounding setup in the WS line.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-27-2011, 2:54 PM Reply   
Sorry to thread hijack Murphy I went with an ARC 300.4 to power the 485's an ARC 300.4 to power the six bullet interior coax two of which are the 770 coax . An ARC 1000.1 for the sub and a WS 420 EQ to control everything. The system is stupid loud and crystal clear here are a couple pics of my finished install
Attached Images
  
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-27-2011, 3:45 PM Reply   
Nice - I run the same amps and I love them.
Old    Duane (nvsairwarrior)      Join Date: Aug 2003       03-27-2011, 4:27 PM Reply   
The reason Robert new about the Neo motors is because he asked the same questions about how we can be so much lighter.
Old    Peace (ALWakePEACE)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-29-2011, 8:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebeaverandboats View Post
totally off topic.....but that picture is sweet. Cool dog man!!!
Haha thanks.

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