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Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-26-2011, 3:31 PM Reply   
Check valves on everything, otherwise it leaks What's going on with the trim tab?
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-26-2011, 4:32 PM Reply   
Yeah - thanks for turning me on to that Duffy. The folks at CMS are putting it all together like you recommended. CMS found some of the hydraulic fluid down in the bilge directly under the reservoir. They want to check it for any leaks. We have the regular side pretty much worked out, if we can keep water in everything, but the darkside is still a little weak when my buddy Dennis is riding. He's 250+ pounds. When I ride, the wake has push, but it's a little dirty. When Dennis rides he's saying he doesn't feel the push. Now we've been behind Drew's boat in FL, Grant's and Karl's boat here in Calif and they had solid darkside wakes, with maybe a touch of wash/spray. We're hoping that maybe we didn't have the full movement of the Trim Tab and with the front tank holding water, we'll have the darkside wake dialed also.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-26-2011, 5:26 PM Reply   
My darkside wave just takes a little more weight to become clean. Have you tried people weight? My swim deck sac makes a huge difference. Also if you have too many people or counter weight it will make my wave dirty, unless I put the trim tab down. Our boats have very similar hull designs and I assume weighting will be similar. How exactly are you weighting your new boat?
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-26-2011, 6:22 PM Reply   
We have only had it out twice where we've weighted the darkside. The first almost doesn't count, because we didn't have ANY check valves, so...the bag would fill and empty just about as quickly.

This last time we were out we had myself, Dennis and Judy, that is 550 of people weight. The darkside bag I believe holds 1,300 pounds, the regular side holds 1,500 (I could be off on those, but probably not by a whole lot). The bow tank, I think, is 250 pounds, but figure it was around 100 pounds when we were riding as it was just emptying all day. Then we also had two bags of lead I believe a total of 80 pounds.

We only had people on the darkside when surfing and the lead was behind the driver, but we moved it all over trying to get something for Dennis. So...I'll try and recap from this past weekend:

The fat sac 1,300
Judy and I 300
Lead 80
Front tank 100

So I believe that is 1,780 pounds of ballast. I tried climbing on the sundeck and we also moved the lead here, there and everywhere During the testing, we tried the TT set at 0, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%. I don't remember any significant effect with the TT setting which makes me think there is at least some part of the issue associated with that.

No doubt it's just a matter of some additional weight, but the regular side is pretty good as-is. So I'm hoping we don't have to lug lead around, maybe just an additional bag somewhere. It's just hard with the bow tank not working completely, so my hope is that we'll have better luck once the bow tank is 100% functional and we can cross-off the TT as a culprit. From there, if it's still an issue, it's more weight!
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-27-2011, 8:21 AM Reply   
That is almost exactly the weight I run. Custom sacs are around 1400-1500 then 250 on surf side in the bow under the seats, plus my center tank full (250). Then I have my swim step sac (150 plus + 100 pounds of lead shot) I weighted it and it's 235 or so. Then I have 200 pounds of lead bars that we move around.

What prop are you running? Got pics of the wash? Are you running a different prop then the test boats? What about the size of your wakeplate vs the test boats?
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-27-2011, 10:18 AM Reply   
We have an Acme 1235 on our boat and I believe that all of the boats we have tested were running that same prop, however, most of these folks were referring to it as a "high altitude" prop (see the first part of this discussion with Duramat) so it could be that they had something OTHER than the 1235. I do know that Grant from CMS has the 1235 on his boat.

It was funny, when we first tried the boat with the new sacs on the darkside, I was driving and the bow lift and the angle of the list startled me. It was definately weighted to the rear corner!

I have some pics when Dennis was out and of me also. I'll drag those out and post them. I think the big difference between all of these boats was people weight and location. When we were out with Drew, there were 8 folks on the boat and they were scattered everywhere - bow, opposite side, even some just in the middle. Of those 8 folks, the extra 5 were pretty light - Ashley Kidd, Brian Baker, James, etc - maybe an average of 125 pounds each? But that's still 625 pounds more and NOT concentrated in the back or along the darkside. The one big difference between Drew's boat and mine is the swimdeck location, I think Drew's is higher than mine by about 1 to 2 inches.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-27-2011, 11:13 AM Reply   
Was your deck dragging?
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-27-2011, 12:13 PM Reply   
I remember looking at it and I don't believe that it was, but to be honest we tried so many different combinations, it could have been. However, it's the same height as Grant's boat and their goofy wake is fine. Two pictures and we had two different setups, I'm sure. In the first Dennis is sllllowwwwllllyyy drifting out the back. The wake looks clean enough, but Dennis said he couldn't feel any push.

The second pic is me, the lip is dirty, but I didn't have the "push" issue that Dennis felt. I do not remember which configuration was which in the pictures. The only weight difference, I believe, was between Dennis and I so, maybe 50'ish pounds. Although we did try adding a few hundred pounds of water to the opposite side sack and THAT could be part of the differences between the two pictures.
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Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-28-2011, 8:25 AM Reply   
What about engine size? Was one a big block and one a small block.
Old     (DMeyersLT)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-28-2011, 3:16 PM Reply   
Hey everyone just wanted to get some pics of the Walkers boat all dialed in with the Exile and Liquidtrends system. We tryed to keep it as clean and as simple as we could yet really sound great for James and his crew when they are out on the water shredding it up. Check it out....

Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-28-2011, 8:33 PM Reply   
Thanks for your work and posting the pictures Dennis. We're going to take it out tomorrow and will give the stereo a run down. It's a little hard to see, but the interior lights on the boat are red and the sub enclosure has that same red light! It looks great.

@ Duffy. I didn;t look at Drew's boat in FL, but all of the boats here in Cali had the same motor. I think we have that emmisions requirement with the cat. Maybe there's only the one option in cali?
Old     (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       01-29-2011, 6:35 AM Reply   
Is the MX 6.2 Black Scorpion even a big block?It doesn't seem worth it since it only has 10 hp more than the 350 Black Scorpion.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-29-2011, 7:10 AM Reply   
I honestly don't know Jay. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on my earlier post. My understanding is that all new boats sold in California must be equipped with a catalytic converter (welcome to California!) and I'm not sure there are a bunch of options in terms of engines that have that cat. Do we have any engine experts following along that would know what engines are available with that Cat Conv?
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-29-2011, 7:46 AM Reply   
Big blocks weigh more So I think they are worth it.
Old     (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       01-29-2011, 2:37 PM Reply   
Dennis - Pictures look good. How did the sub setup turn out? From the helm pic it looks like you went with a side firing vented enclosure? with that much space under the helm, I'm guessing its got some AUTHORITY with so much power on the sub.

I always enjoy seeing a clean install and it looks like the Liquid Trends crew didnt dissapoint..

From the operational point of view this system sould really JAM --1000W on the towers, another 1000W on the sub and 800W on the cabins. This really should blend very well with wide dynamic range and bring smiles to the faces of your riders...

If it was not so cold, I'd say sign me up to ride. Looking forward to catching up with you all in the spring time. I'd love to see this boat in action first hand.

Exile Audio
Old     (razzman)      Join Date: Dec 2006       01-29-2011, 5:56 PM Reply   
Very nice Jeff! Excellent setup, you'll be very pleased with it! Congrats!
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-29-2011, 7:50 PM Reply   
Thanks Razz,

The stereo is amazing. Tremendous clarity at what seems like a mile away! James loves it.

We got the darkside working for Dennis today. We tossed an extra 200 pounds on the seat and he was ripping. We've been at a slekelton crew with only 3 of us, an extra person will do the trick!
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Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-29-2011, 7:59 PM Reply   
James joined us later in the day after he got off work.
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Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-31-2011, 9:17 AM Reply   
Boat looks great. Still one of the best bang for you buck boats given the size of both the boat and wake IMO. Congrats on getting it dialed and outfitted with all the gear. The high gunnel on the 226 makes me really want one for my next boat as the lake where we have our summer house can get very rough very quickly.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-31-2011, 9:37 AM Reply   
Put a 150 fat brick on the swim deck and the wave will rip!
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-31-2011, 10:09 AM Reply   
Got any videos of the goofy wave with the added weight?
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-31-2011, 10:49 AM Reply   
Thanks guys! This boat is TALL I mean really tall off the water and we have been aiming to just touch the rub rail at the water. It's still slightly above on the darkside, but now we know where the minimum is for decent wakes both side. It feels like we could add another 1,000 pounds...of course Judy would probably file for divorce, but it would be sacked out! Maybe as it gets warmer we'll see if we can slam it for a session.

@ Duffy, the video camera is Dennis' I don't know what he grabbed. Next time out, I'll be sure to get at least a short clip of the darkside. How are you attaching the fat brick on to your swimdeck? Is it just water or did I read you had some lead in yours?
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-31-2011, 11:12 AM Reply   
I just use a rope and tie it to the grab rail. I have lead shot in mine (100#), so it's near 250. But since it's so far back of the boat it's like having 500-700 on the seats. Makes a huge huge huge difference. You can still move it easily and I just move it to the surf side as far over as I can. The lead keeps the sac from moving as well. Really works well I get lots of people asking me about it though
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-31-2011, 11:15 AM Reply   
Here is a picture of it empty with the lead shot in it. And also a picture of the fat sac plug I made with a simple garden hose screen to keep the lead in. Next time I would do it I would get stainless shot, to be better to the environment
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Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-31-2011, 11:53 AM Reply   
That's pretty cool. No issues with scratching the gelcoat?

Two more pictures of the darkside. We like to put Dennis's 265 pound frame on one of our FB 4'5" wakesurf boards. If he can ride that, the wake is ok.

I was trying to stall towards the back of the wake in my picture, I don't think I'm all the way back as I'm still throwing water everywhere.
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Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-31-2011, 12:31 PM Reply   
Sweet looking wave. What would scrap the boat? The sac is soft and it's just a rope.
Old     (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       01-31-2011, 1:41 PM Reply   
X2 on the sac on the swim deck. Most weekends we run 1,400lbs custom sac, 250lbs center tank, 400lbs sac on surf side seat and the 155lbs on swim deck. This puts us right at the rub rail with just myself (155lbs) and a buddy (225lbs). I use to have to run another 400lbs sac on the back seat to get the same wave.

BTW: great looking wave.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-31-2011, 2:18 PM Reply   
What's the speed you guys are surfing?
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-31-2011, 2:28 PM Reply   
@ jkw - thanks for the info, sounds very similar to what we are doing except you have the swiimdeck ballast . On this boat it seems we need about about 100 pounds more on the darkside than on the regular side, which seems pretty easy.

@ duffy I forget that you live in God's country. When we pull out of the delta or even our home lake there is a film of dirt, I was just wondering is that would act like rubbing compound. However, you have filtered water where you boat! I'm not sure if you're asking the speed question of me or JKW, but we go at 11 mph. We have that new GPS star gazer PP system - that's cool, set a launch mode and it's exactly 11mph and the pull up is always the same.
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       02-01-2011, 12:37 PM Reply   
Can you tell me the model number of the tower speakers you are using? Also do you happen to know which setting they put the internal crossover switch at on the tower speakers? Thanks
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-01-2011, 1:30 PM Reply   
Hey packrat - yikes, what did you ask?! If Dennis or Brian don't chime in I am sure I can get the speaker model numbers, but as to the other question, I don't even know how to go about finding that! I'd be happy to look for you, if you can tell me what to look for! I'm sorry to be such a neophyte in this regard.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-01-2011, 6:37 PM Reply   
Hey packrat, I found this posted by Brian from Exile audio, it's on teh second page of this thread about 1/2 up. Hopefully that answers your questions about the model numbers.

I checked with Dennis @ LTrends. The Exile lay of the land looks like this...

Tower -
2 pair SXT65 (4 pods up high on the tower). Wont interfer with bimini etc.
1 Harpoon 1000W amplifier

Cabin -
3 pair SX65 cabin speakers
1 XI800.4 multi ch amp

XI12D 800W dual voice coil woofer
XI1500.1 amplifier
Custom enclosure under the helm
Old     (nuckledragger)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-01-2011, 9:45 PM Reply   
Jeff the setup looks nice!!! When are you going to start surfing an Alaia behind it?
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Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-02-2011, 5:01 AM Reply   
Thanks Eric! Have you seen those crazy guys surf those Alaia's? Finless planks, sheesh that takes some skill. I probably couldn't even do it holding on to the rope! That's a gorgeous Al, where did you grab that picture?
Old     (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       02-02-2011, 9:00 AM Reply   
Packrat - The tower setup on this Supreme is based on a new Exile speaker model called SXT65. The pod looks the same as the XM7 but thats about where it ends in similarity. You asked about the crossover settings internally. Unlike the XM7 which is optimized to throw sound at 80feet and beyond for wakeboarder users, the SXT65 is based on a nearfield tweeter (instead of a horn). The benefit is much increased sound quality with a wider soundfield. Let me be clear in saying, where it gains in sound quality, it loses in projection as compared to its big brother XM7. This design is aimed at the surf market where the action is at 15-20ft back of the boat. So in short, this model does not need a user adjustable crossover setting.

The XM7crossover setting will give you a softer warmer sound than the right out of the box crispy sound. My personal preference is the engage that switch every time. But to each his own...

It should also be mentioned that this tower setup is powered by the Harpoon amplifier (500W x 2). So each of Jeff's speakers are being fed 250W rms. and that is a lot of power. This gives the user the ability to REALLY turn the surf zone into a concert.

If you need any other info, shoot me a PM here, and I'll help you out.


Exile Audio
Old     (nuckledragger)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-02-2011, 11:24 AM Reply   
Originally Posted by surfdad View Post
Thanks Eric! Have you seen those crazy guys surf those Alaia's? Finless planks, sheesh that takes some skill. I probably couldn't even do it holding on to the rope! That's a gorgeous Al, where did you grab that picture?
Just grabbed it off google. I am in the process of shaping one for myself. Can't wait to get it in the water.

Vinyl sticks on that boat look great.
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       02-02-2011, 12:08 PM Reply   
Thanks Brian and Jeff for the information. I
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-05-2011, 8:32 PM Reply   
We went out again today.
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Old     (trash4life)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-07-2011, 1:13 PM Reply   
Surfdad, Looks like that's the Inland version of the Flyboy? I'm very interested in knowing how it rode. Any differences from the previous version? Any idea what Inland is going to want for them.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-07-2011, 3:45 PM Reply   
I don't want to hijack my own thread! So I'll be curt here, PM me if you have more questions about that board. We have a revised prototype on the way, THAT will be the one to ask about ride quality (the first prototype, the one in the pictures is heavier than spec, thicker than spec and the fins weren't on spec). The final producton board should be the same board as before with two exceptions (and I'm thinking that the good folks at Inland are sick and tired of hearing from me! ). Inland has their own traction, the FlyBoy brand used Beaker pads and arch. Inland chose to mold their own fins so that they could be used across other boards with the mini-tuttle box, the FlyBoy used Futures. I'm not privy to the pricing but over on someone saw one at the Portland Boat show, I do believe, and he said the dealer list was $895. I'm guessing that price will fluctuate dealer-by-dealer.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-07-2011, 6:29 PM Reply   
Darkside wake video I promised Duffy a bunch of posts back. Dennis is the man behind the cam and edit. I hope I copied the right string!

Old     (1niceharley)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-08-2011, 12:17 PM Reply   
Very nice Boat! enjoyed the thread.
Old     (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-08-2011, 12:48 PM Reply   
I bet my wave cleaner would get some of that wash to go away
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       02-08-2011, 2:40 PM Reply   
Hey Duffy, do you have a picture of the wave cleaner installed on your boat? I want to make one this spring.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-13-2011, 5:14 PM Reply   
I landed my first three behind our new boat! I really used the entire length of the pocket on this one, but landed, is landed!
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Old     (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-15-2011, 3:58 PM Reply   
Nice !! Congrats on pulling off the 3' (and quite nicely, I'd say) Great you got it on sequence shot, how about video?
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-15-2011, 4:43 PM Reply   
Why YES!!!! Thanks for asking! (and the compliment) I actually landed two 3's that day (do NOT ask how many attempts, thank you in advance! ) Dennis edited the one 3 he caught on video and I'd be happy to brag...err, I mean post it, later this evening.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-15-2011, 7:32 PM Reply   
I tried to upload the video of MY SECOND 360! but YouTube gave me a weird message:

We are currently in read-only mode. Your upload will continue but will not go live or be editable until read-only mode is over.

Maybe I'll be able to link to it tomorrow?!
Old     (F725)      Join Date: May 2010       02-16-2011, 4:13 AM Reply   
Okay maybe it's been asked already but... how much fuel does this boat burn compared to the Tige' you ran before?

I am on task for buying a new boat this spring and this one is on the top of my list but the fuel consumption scares me a little. I currently burn 4-5 gallons per hour ( I always shut the boat off during surfers ).
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-16-2011, 5:58 AM Reply   
I think that I have the video posted. Dennis even did a slow motion instant replay I am really inconsistent with my 3's, but landed 2 this past Sunday. Dennis is inconsistent like me, but the one day we tested Grants boat he landed 8 - 360's IN A ROW on the darkside. The pocket seems to be longer without requiring extra speed so we "older" folks can spin. For me, when the speed is faster, I have a hard time spinning a board, so I appreciate the pocket length at the 11 mph we ride.

Ok, lets hope I got right code and can post it!

Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-16-2011, 6:11 AM Reply   
LOL ok, the key to landing a surface 360 is flailing arms

@ Greg, oh man, I didn't take notice of the fuel usage. We haven't had it out for a full day yet, the water being so cold we haven't taken more than about 3 runs each and neither Judy nor Bre and now Emily will go in the water this early in the season. Figure 4 hours of running. I always pay attention to the cost to fill it back up. I always use the midgrade at my local Chevron (he's a client) and he's around 3.699 a gallon for "Ethyl". It cost me $52 this past weekend, to fill it from the prior week's wakesurf. I didn't have a coronary, so it felt OK. It's probably around the low end of 4 gals per hour. I'll make an effort to get an accurate measure for you. We have been running the heater and so tend to keep the engine running most of the time also.
Old     (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-16-2011, 1:56 PM Reply   
I love that video, I guess I have some catching up to do! Maybe I should move to a warmer climate.( more surfing) Whats the unemployment pecentage there in Cali? (your area) Ha ha
Old     (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-16-2011, 1:59 PM Reply   
I'm willing to move as long as I had a good job placement. Mclatchy Newspapers own the Sacramento Bee, maybe I can put in for a transfer. There I go dreaming again..........
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-16-2011, 6:10 PM Reply   
Oh Tony, I am so inconsistent with my 3's if you've ever landed 2 3's you're equal with me. Sacramento isn't too bad for it's unemployment rate, but down here in the valley it's projected to be 18.2% this year! It's scary down here.
Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-05-2011, 6:05 PM Reply   
Other than being a testatment to the fact that I should NOT quit my day job to become a photographer , I thought this picture was interesting. It sure seems like we have close to 20 feet in length, less the 3 feet forming the peak. We were riding a little slower today, about 10.8 in this photo. We might add a foot or so riding at 11 to 12.
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Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       04-09-2011, 9:02 AM Reply   
I can't find the post now, but someone asked about the fuel consumption. We're going out again today and I just topped the boat off from last weeks riding. I squeezed in $40 @ 4.299 a gallon!!! When did price of gas = the price of gold! Anyway, it was 9.3'ish gallons. We rode last weekend, somewhere in the area of 2.5 to 3 hours. We were on the water from 11 to 3 and rode both sides. I believe 3 of us on the regular side and then just 2 of us on the darkside. So a short day.

Hope that helps! and I'm sorry I couldn't remember who asked.
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Old     (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       05-08-2011, 7:07 PM Reply   
Supreme - world class towboats This poor guy just bought the Calbaria and I think this was his maiden voyage on Mom's Day. He trusted the gas guage to be accurate. However, we did discover the perfect use for a tubing rope!

We got them back safe and sound so they could continue with their mom's day celebration.
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