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Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-24-2011, 10:05 AM Reply   
props
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Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       01-24-2011, 11:36 AM Reply   
guess he's ready for the end of days and then some, I want Sam on my team, Sam you want an address to the compound?
Old    SamIngram            01-24-2011, 12:02 PM Reply   
Nice starter collection... probably a just a small time hobbyist. Many hobbyists make the mistake of buying lots of weapons, when they should be buying lots of ammo. A gun without ammo is nothing more than a club.

You have to have access to lots of ammo...


this is just the immediate supply. We have lots more in various storage areas...




and where is my reloading bench?


I see to much natural light in your photo.... we live in places like this

Not really...
Old    Rob Flaherty (mc_x15)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-24-2011, 12:43 PM Reply   
Is that a freaking rocket launcher on the right? Not bashing, but why would one man need so many guns.
Old    SamIngram            01-24-2011, 1:07 PM Reply   
So there I was, stopped by an LEO for passing a red light. He asked for my license and registration and insurance card and I also handed him my CCWP. He asked me if I was carrying a firearm and I told him I had a .44 S&W revolver on my hip, a .380 on my ankle, 9mm Glock in the small of my back, and a 45 semi in the glove compartment. He asked me if they were loaded and I told him they were. He asked me if that was the extent of my firearm inventory and I told him I had a loaded AR15 and pump shotgun in the trunk. He asked me if I was coming back or going to a gun range and I told him I was not. He then asked me "what I was afraid of" considering all the firearms and I answered him--"not a damn thing".

This seems like a good place to post something that a fellow wakeworlder private messaged me...

"The Gun Is Civilization" by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)


Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.

If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force.

Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion..

Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job.

That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury.

This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst.

The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter.

It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)
Old    Luke Jones (WRider)      Join Date: Jan 2011       01-24-2011, 1:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIngram View Post
So there I was, stopped by an LEO for passing a red light. He asked for my license and registration and insurance card and I also handed him my CCWP. He asked me if I was carrying a firearm and I told him I had a .44 S&W revolver on my hip, a .380 on my ankle, 9mm Glock in the small of my back, and a 45 semi in the glove compartment. He asked me if they were loaded and I told him they were. He asked me if that was the extent of my firearm inventory and I told him I had a loaded AR15 and pump shotgun in the trunk. He asked me if I was coming back or going to a gun range and I told him I was not. He then asked me "what I was afraid of" considering all the firearms and I answered him--"not a damn thing".
^^ I have gotten that as an email chain before.

Don't know if you guys have seen this video before but thought it was hilarious and worth sharing. The ending is great and why having a CCWP comes in very handy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7FduO0zOh0
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-24-2011, 1:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
So there I was, stopped by an LEO for passing a red light. He asked for my license and registration and insurance card and I also handed him my CCWP. He asked me if I was carrying a firearm and I told him I had a .44 S&W revolver on my hip, a .380 on my ankle, 9mm Glock in the small of my back, and a 45 semi in the glove compartment. He asked me if they were loaded and I told him they were. He asked me if that was the extent of my firearm inventory and I told him I had a loaded AR15 and pump shotgun in the trunk. He asked me if I was coming back or going to a gun range and I told him I was not. He then asked me "what I was afraid of" considering all the firearms and I answered him--"not a damn thing".
Is that one of those stories just better told in the first person or do you really cary like that?
Old    SamIngram            01-24-2011, 1:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
Is that one of those stories just better told in the first person or do you really cary like that?
LOL.... it's email chain letter thing...
Old    Matt (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       01-24-2011, 3:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIngram View Post
Nice starter collection... probably a just a small time hobbyist. Many hobbyists make the mistake of buying lots of weapons, when they should be buying lots of ammo. A gun without ammo is nothing more than a club.

You have to have access to lots of ammo...


this is just the immediate supply. We have lots more in various storage areas...




and where is my reloading bench?


I see to much natural light in your photo.... we live in places like this

Not really...

Sam, are all these photos your supply of ammo and your reloading room?
Old    SamIngram            01-24-2011, 3:28 PM Reply   
No...
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-24-2011, 6:12 PM Reply   
Way too much green on that bench, Sam. You'll end up buying the blue stuff in time. trust me.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-24-2011, 7:48 PM Reply   
Sam, or whoever posted the original pic wherever it came from: Why would anyone advertise their cache of weapons and/or ammo?
Old    Jason (corerider)      Join Date: May 2008       01-24-2011, 8:14 PM Reply   
Come on guys.... It's obvious Sam can't see a damn thing! Look at the font size on those monitors. He needs all the guns and ammo just in hopes of hitting what he's aiming at. I keed I keed...
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-24-2011, 8:26 PM Reply   
"When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force."

Interesting argument, I think it makes sense and I see where you are coming from. Personally, I dont like guns. I cant pinpoint why, but probably a conglomerate of seeing what they can do (OK, the people with them...dont get ruffled everyone), the fact that it adds something to the equation that can go wrong (gun malfunction, seized by someone who uses it against the original owner), etc. Instead of wanting to load up on guns/ammo and walk around armed to the teeth for that one moment where a gun could save my life, I have accepted the fact that there are people out there with guns, and Im going to live my life not giving a #&$* about them. If the time comes where I am held up or am in a situation with a shooter, I will either do everything in my power with my bare hands to defeat them if there is a reasonable chance of success, or if Im I am truly helpless, Ill let them take my 50 dollars or my car or whatever and live with the consequences. If they shoot me and kill me, so be it. That is my time I suppose. Until then, Im going to save a lot of money and a lot of stress on guns.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-25-2011, 5:42 PM Reply   
Do you also ride without a life vest, and figure that if it's just your time it's ok if you die? Do you wear one and go out on the boat hoping you get knocked out and able to use your vest for it's intended purpose? No, you wear it every time hoping you are never in a situation where it saves your life.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-25-2011, 9:06 PM Reply   
Adam, let me ask: What if it were one of your family? What if you were able to thwart injury or death of someone you love, if you had carried? The reason I say this is because you said "I", I'll", and "my car". You never mentioned "they", "them" or any family member. A couple of years ago, I took the carry class. It was eye opening, but I still do not carry. Why? I cannot carry in my job and become "one" with the handgun. Maybe I'll get lucky and never wish that I "learned" to carry, but the odds are against me and getting worse all the time.
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-25-2011, 9:30 PM Reply   
Jason, nope. Because I realize what I am doing is very risky and the chances of me getting knocked out wakeboarding are very real. I do not think that the risk of getting held up or being in a firefight is near the same risk. Thats like the risk in comparing wearing your seatbelt versus having bullet proof windows in your car and only traveling in convoys for fear of the mafia gunning you down in your car. (ok that is a little dramatic but hopefully you can catch my drift).

Wakeboardingdad, youre right, maybe one day my family will be getting kidnapped and Ill wish I had a gun. Again, Id rather live my life with no fear of these kind of situations, and if it happens Ill have to deal with the consequences. From a risk comparison perspective, Id still rather not carry for risk of my gun getting used against me or my 4 year old (hypothetical) son accidentally killing himself my getting his hands on it. I realize my views may not be shared with the ww.com majority, but I am 100% happy with my choice to not carry and never worry about gun situations. Just as you are prepared for using your gun to take down that criminal in the .0001% chance of being held up, Im prepared to take down that criminal in the .0001% chance of being held up with my bare hands, or accepting the consequences of not being able to do so.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-25-2011, 10:50 PM Reply   
I think that there should be more regulation of guns, more education around them, and more involved in getting them.
This is how i look at the situation, regardless of whether or not having guns is legal, the "bad guys" will get them. the "good guys" will follow the law and not have guns, at this point the "bad guys" have far more power.

look at mexico, it is illegal for a citizen to own a gun, but the drug cartel still gets them and uses them to harm people. weather or not any given person is carrying, or has a gun in there home is partly a deterrent for break ins and things like that.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-26-2011, 8:58 AM Reply   
Adam, I do not think the possibility of something bad happening is that low of a percentage. However, if you feel safe and secure knowing that you depend on others or your bare hands to take down someone that is going to do bodily harm to you or yours, then that is fine. It is an individual's choice. However, let me state this: Your bare hands are no match for most any kind of weapon, be it a baseball bat or a gun. The best way to defend yourself is to never have come within arms reach of the perp. Like I said, I do not carry either. If for nothing else, the carry class opened my eyes to things that can happen. I now carry a knife (not for fighting) and a small flashlight. I use both of them almost daily. The only thing I lack is some sort of pepper spray. That alone could be enough to subdue the attacker enough to allow me and/or my family to escape. You may be 6-5, 290, be made of steel and street savvy; I am only saying this so you'll (or others) think about it.
Old    Rob Flaherty (mc_x15)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-26-2011, 12:55 PM Reply   
Wait till your child gets shot on the street by a gun that was stolen from your neighbor who didnt lock it up properly.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-26-2011, 1:18 PM Reply   
Bizarre! I wasn't aware that guns shoot people.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-26-2011, 1:20 PM Reply   
Barry, they do. A gun in a back pack just shot two kids in a classroom within the last week or so.
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-26-2011, 1:22 PM Reply   
Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Guns just make it a whole hell of a lot easier.
Old    Train (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-26-2011, 1:25 PM Reply   
yep, happened here in so cal. of course, this kid was a loser who brought a gun to school of all places. this was a careless gun owner, just like every other criminal out there who carries illegally.
if you want to carry a gun on you, and are trained and licensed, have at it. but the level of paranoia of some people on this site is out of control.
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-26-2011, 5:38 PM Reply   
i would contend most gun owners particularly pistol owners cant hit the broad side of a barn. id be way more afraid of a dude with a shotgun than a guy with a pistol or even a rifle.
Old    Rob Flaherty (mc_x15)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-08-2011, 1:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
Bizarre! I wasn't aware that guns shoot people.
Try to shoot someone without a gun. Very difficult.
Old    SamIngram            02-08-2011, 3:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mc_x15 View Post
Try to shoot someone without a gun. Very difficult.
Come on over... I'll shoot you with my Mathews Z7 at 100 yards and see how you like that. The bears don't really know the difference between my .308 at 100 yards and my bow at 100 yards.. they are both shot dead...
Attached Images
 
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-08-2011, 6:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeboardingdad View Post
Sam, or whoever posted the original pic wherever it came from: Why would anyone advertise their cache of weapons and/or ammo?
My thoughts exactly - it was not that difficult to go to the Maricopa County Central Appraisal District and find out where all those guns and ammo are housed.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-08-2011, 6:15 PM Reply   
of course - you probably be dead if you got caught
Old    SamIngram            02-08-2011, 6:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphy_smith View Post
My thoughts exactly - it was not that difficult to go to the Maricopa County Central Appraisal District and find out where all those guns and ammo are housed.
First, I didn't post that picture and it isn't mine..

Second, you have to figure out what my real name is in order to look it up..

Third, you have to guess which house it's in, there are 17 under my name in tax records...

Forth, you have to get by one black lab, one Great Dane, and one Rotty...

Fifth, you have to get by the alarm system.

Six, you have to get into the safe.

and finally, how do you feel about this?



and this...



so ya, come on over...
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-08-2011, 6:42 PM Reply   
You are preaching to the choir on state laws - I live in Texas (enough said)

Last edited by murphy_smith; 02-08-2011 at 6:46 PM.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-08-2011, 7:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Try to shoot someone without a gun. Very difficult.
The point.. you missed it.
Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-09-2011, 6:38 PM Reply   
Just to clarify - I posted the original pic and pshopped the WW screen onto the monitor. I meant it as a ribbing joke and I applaud Sam's sense of humor and ability to chuckle at himself.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       02-10-2011, 6:16 AM Reply   
Isnt it odd that those opposed to carrying believe the probability of actually needing it is too small to consider carrying, yet believe the likelihood of having it used against them is so high that its not worth the risk?
Old    Stephen Schools (Schools)      Join Date: Feb 2010       02-10-2011, 7:12 AM Reply   
Truth of the matter is this. The way the government isn't listening to the people is wrong and if something isn't done about it soon, then you better be carrying and have ammo. What do you think people are going to do when they don't have gas, food, or basic necessity anymore because they just can't afford it. There will be a consiquence. Who knows what that is as of yet. Just use your imagination. I know food isn't the only necessity I require for my family. That said when all Hell breaks loose I will be defending my castle. Do you think the government will stand back and just let us kill ourselves to survive? Do you think they will shoot us for trying to take care of ourselves when everything is in control by them? Owning a weapon is not an option. It is a RESPONSIBILITY! Unless you could care less what happens to you and your community.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-10-2011, 7:56 AM Reply   
Noting odd about it. The risk of not carrying is low only if everyone else isn't carrying. I know the counter argument is that people are less likely to commit a crime with a weapon if they think everyone else is carrying. But IMO that doesn't take into account all those people who think they are stable and responsible, but strap on a weapon and then find out they aren't.
Old    SamIngram            02-10-2011, 8:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Noting odd about it. The risk of not carrying is low only if everyone else isn't carrying. I know the counter argument is that people are less likely to commit a crime with a weapon if they think everyone else is carrying. But IMO that doesn't take into account all those people who think they are stable and responsible, but strap on a weapon and then find out they aren't.
That is so typical...


Statistics in every community say otherwise....
Old    JBC (bcoppinger)      Join Date: Sep 2002       02-10-2011, 9:34 AM Reply   
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/...19257620070418
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       02-10-2011, 11:19 AM Reply   
John, i think you missed my point. Logically, the group of circumstances where someone would take it from you and use it against you is a subset of the group of occurances where you would need one. Therefore it could never be more probable that it be used against you than you simply needing it alone.

It makes no sense to say one shouldnt carry because of the low percentages of need, then claim how high the risk of it being used against you are.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-10-2011, 12:20 PM Reply   
Besides, if an assailant takes my weapon.. I'll just take it back.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       02-10-2011, 12:31 PM Reply   
Why not just shoot them with your back-up?
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-10-2011, 12:51 PM Reply   
"Statistics in every community say otherwise...."

Are there are some examples. Here's a community for you - let's call it Disneyland. People aren't allowed to carry guns there. The chances of you getting shot there are extremely low. There probably never has been a shooting there. Let's hope that some people who insist on carrying a gun absolutely everywhere are never able to change that and don't try to sneak a gun in there, becoming more likely a problem than anything else.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-10-2011, 12:58 PM Reply   
Funny you'd mention Disneyland. They check your bags, but not your hip. Fortunately I've never become a problem.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       02-10-2011, 2:07 PM Reply   
Actually, a kid was shot there in 1987.

Notice you say that people are not allowed to carry guns there, you didnt say people are forced not to carry guns there. "Allowed" implies a rule.

Lets say that outside the location both those who follow the rules and those who break the rules are equally armed in a stalemate. However, inside Disneyland there is a rule that no guns are allowed. By definition those who dont follow the rules still carry, and those that do are now disarmed.

Generally, the armed people you need to be concerned with are those who do not follow the rules. The good people are now at the mercy of the bad.
Old    Brett W (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-10-2011, 2:58 PM Reply   
The fact of the matter is that where guns are illegal and not as easy to get, there are less deaths of innocent people as well. Sure, many crimes are prevented because private individuals have them, but because of their availability, I'd say a lot more crimes involving them occur. I'm not saying we should get rid of guns. Those of us with guns feels safer having them. Personally, I find it comforting knowing I've got my gun in case someone breaks into my house at night.

As for the example of Disneyland, I feel a lot more comfortable with guns not being allowed and therefore a lot fewer people (good and bad) having them. As mentioned, it's been almost 25 years since someone was shot there.
Old    SamIngram            02-10-2011, 3:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettw View Post
The fact of the matter is that where guns are illegal and not as easy to get, there are less deaths of innocent people as well. Sure, many crimes are prevented because private individuals have them, but because of their availability, I'd say a lot more crimes involving them occur. I'm not saying we should get rid of guns. Those of us with guns feels safer having them. Personally, I find it comforting knowing I've got my gun in case someone breaks into my house at night.

As for the example of Disneyland, I feel a lot more comfortable with guns not being allowed and therefore a lot fewer people (good and bad) having them. As mentioned, it's been almost 25 years since someone was shot there.
Been to Britain or Australia lately?
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-10-2011, 3:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
As for the example of Disneyland, I feel a lot more comfortable with guns not being allowed and therefore a lot fewer people (good and bad) having them. As mentioned, it's been almost 25 years since someone was shot there.
Firearms aren't allowed at Disneyland, but they are encouraged at my house. I have 4 safes full of firearms and a detached room specifically designed for ballistics/reloading- I've been there 25 years and nobody has ever been shot at my house.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-10-2011, 5:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Just to clarify - I posted the original pic and pshopped the WW screen onto the monitor. I meant it as a ribbing joke and I applaud Sam's sense of humor and ability to chuckle at himself.
I knew that Wes, but someone, somewhere posted the original pic. Unphotoshopped. The ammo is the same. Why show off? Maybe I'm just jealous.

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