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Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-11-2010, 10:11 AM Reply   
Jeremy,

Just because you "trace" something does not mean it is. Islam also traces itself to apostolic times. That does not make it christian. The quote you put up mentions the year 202. Catholicism did not start until well after the year 300, so nice try. Please try and keep facts straight. If you also would actually study, during the time you mentioned, the christians that were in the Roman empire were also being fed to the lions for public entertainment because they did not accept the Roman paganism.

They are right. I am not hear to start a religious debate, I was only answering Johns attack.

Again Jeremy. You certainly add a lot of assumptions to me and how I feel. I offer you facts. You call them hate. I say that pretty much sums up a leftists position. You offer up emotion in the place of facts. Such as firefighters are going to let people burn and those people certainly aren't christians. There is zero to support that conclusion and it appears Eric has given people enough actual facts to stop the idiotic dump on people who actually understand the concept of responsibility for your choices. What you always seem to miss is the discussions are not about absolute feelings in the matter. Not a single person on this board is advocating anyone or anything gets hurt and it I am sure it would break everyones heart including mine) if they knew this person. You have no idea how much time I waste in my life worrying about my neighbors financial situations or health and so on. I have found the people on this board to be some of the coolest and most generous people I have ever met. That is where you always want to take the discussions. That is NOT what people are talking about when these subjects come up. That is very important you understand that.

With this being the basis to start from, what everyone is talking about is policies of financial and government institutions as well as social consequence for your actions. Everyone has the neighbor, friend or family member (or they may be that person) that has screwed up and everyone talks about and says it was a matter of time before such and such happened to them. It was a matter of time. The reason people say that is because they understand consequence to certain actions and know it is going to happen. It is not people looking down on others but at a certain time though you have to stand up and say you are not going to destroy me. If a destructive person in your life starts to destroy you then the destructive person will certainly have no one to help them. They will all be in the gutter. That is the whole point. You have to have a strong position in order to help others. If not there is chaos. That is why people seem so harsh because many financial and government policies do have to be firm and seem unforgiving or they will fall. To apply that to finance and government, that is why me and many others understand that the more people you have to represent with a policy the more general it has to be and thus less fitting to the individuals. Thus as you may say, heartless. That is why we get so fed up with people who want to elect more government to fix it. More (bigger) government is the problem. Bigger government = heartless. I know it sounds odd considering the position but people who are for less government are actually more caring people. They understand this concept.

With this fire. The people thought they would have a government ran program that would run in and save them so they did not take steps to make sure they had the ability or procedures in regarding fires to save themselves. Look at New Orleans. They thought they had a government built levy system to save them and that the government could just swoop in as save them if something happened so they did not do anything locally to prepare. Big Government makes you soft and the crack addict always thinks you are mean and nasty when you won't give them money for more drugs.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-11-2010, 11:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
You are not able to get that you can not give everything away. That is a fact.
Ignorant accusations are a fool's argument. This thread wasn't even about giving things away. It was about the best way to handle this particular situation. And IMO letting a house burn to the ground was not it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Catholics are not christians. The religion did not even come to be until nearly 400 years after christ. The first christians were followers of christ directly and not some man in a church. Again, you obviously are not researching and continuing to just repeat crap that you hear.
This is a big load of crap. All Christian religions came after Jesus lived on the earth. Most Christian religions don't even come close to the true believers of Christ. You belief in your research is total BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Invading Iraq from a long term strategic position was a smart idea.
There is absolutely nothing to show that this was anything but a total mistake. Saddam was fundamentally an enemy of Iran. Now the nation of Iraq is largely religiously aligned with Iran. As a result oif the war Iraq is a prime target for assimilation by Iran. The only thing that stands in it's way is if the US continues to take responsibility for this monkey on our back for an indeterminate period of time. The invasion was a failure on every level except to show our capability of disposing of a govt and it's army in record time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Again, I know you can't and won't understand since you have not even bothered to research a point from above and still repeat it to try and make a point..
Delta, you don't know s**t. You're just too ignorant to realize how wrong you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
John, I am a very simple person. I am very transparent and I will tell you the secret. I HATE idiots and LIARS. Very simple. If you are going to post something stupid, then be prepared to defend it.
Don't engage in too much self examination if you don't want to hate yourself.

I don't need to defend myself against your misguided accusations. You are a political hack. Whenever you want to dispute someone's point you always claim something about what *their* Democrats did. All that does is tell me that you so closely align yourself with the GOP that you truely are in the pockets of those idiots. Neither the democrats or the republicans are my mentors of political belief. Politicians as a whole are pretty much a bunch of bozos.

But there are some facts that only an idiot would deny. Bush spearheaded the invasion of Iraq. He sold it to the American public and the incompetent boobs in Congress, repubs and demos alike. Without Bush there would have no invasion. That was his legacy of failure. And short of a miracle and Iraq actually being able to create a stable govt, it will always remain a legacy of failure.
Old    Clayton Saidler (csaidler)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-11-2010, 11:58 AM Reply   
thread has now been officially hijacked
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       10-11-2010, 3:31 PM Reply   
"Catholicism did not start until well after the year 300, so nice try. Please try and keep facts straight."

Let's get one thing straight. All of that crap that you spew is not FACT. I know in your misguided, feeble mind you believe so, but you are dead wrong. What I posted came from an independent website. But the truth is, I don't give a F what you think and what you believe. There are too many Monday morning QB's when it comes to politics and religion and you fit that definition to a T.

Don't worry about responding because I am done. Let this return back to some guy's home burning down and the firemen essentially roasting marshmallows over the embers.
Old    Clayton Saidler (csaidler)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-11-2010, 3:47 PM Reply   
does anyone here understand that his house would have burned down either way. nothing would have been saved. the pets would have died. when trailers catch fire they dont burn slowly and when volunteers are dispatched they are rarely able to respond to the scene quickly. put 2 and 2 together and quit blaming this guys house burning down on the firemen. The ppl voted to have to pay $75 for fire protection, and this guy conciously decided not to pay it. How is it in anybodies mind not his fault. all I want is someone to come on here and give a good reason why its not this guys fault his house did not get put out.
Old    Big D (bigdtx)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-11-2010, 3:47 PM Reply   
proof that people on this site are idiots.
Old    SamIngram            10-11-2010, 5:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
But the truth is, I don't give a F what you think and what you believe. There are too many Monday morning QB's when it comes to politics and religion and you fit that definition to a T.
Wow, and just think, this wasn't even directed at me!!

I actually, of course, think you are WRONG! The problem with politics is that we have to many fans sitting on the sidelines and not enough people studying the playbooks, rules of the game, history of the game, and the original intent of the game... If more people actually participated in both politics and religion things would be much, much better IMO

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       10-11-2010, 5:37 PM Reply   
Delta No worries man I understand what your saying. I just feel its wrong not to help. So what the guy should have done was tell them there was someone in there then they would have tried and put it out. Oh no wait he didnt pay so they burn. No your right they would not let someone burn I understand this. So the rules only apply when THEY want them to. Its fuggin crap man. The guy needed help and nobody gave a crap over $75 stupid azz dollars. The system is broken in that county and needs to be fixed. They made an example out of this guy I hope they are happy and can sleep at nite knowing they did nothing. Give the guy a ticket put a lean on his property. Make him serve community hours to pay back the county...whatever but for God sake help a fellow human/American in a time of need! IYour going to be giving free healthcare to 12 million illegal aliens and we cant try and to save this guys house and pets.....what a country we live in!

Last edited by kko13; 10-11-2010 at 5:41 PM.
Old    Clayton Saidler (csaidler)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-11-2010, 5:58 PM Reply   
We shouldn't be providing healthcare for those aliens either.they should be out of the country until they come in legally and if they want to stay they can become citizens. Same as this guy should have payed the money. The citizens of his county VOTED for it to be that way THAT is AMERICA. And tell me you don't believe a guys house burning down is equal to a human being dying.
Old    Eric (rowdy)      Join Date: Mar 2006       10-11-2010, 8:13 PM Reply   
This was presented to the Obion County Commision by the fire chiefs of departments within Obion County in 2008.

http://troy.troytn.com/Obion%20Count...Commission.pdf
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-11-2010, 8:25 PM Reply   
Jeremy,

You are going to ignore history for the resource in one website. The catholic church was started by Constantine after he unified Rome. Interesting you still will not research it. You afraid of the answer? I rest my case. Non thinker.

Here is a little unsolicited advice for you. Don't start accusing people of not fitting into your view of how religious people should think (what ever that has to do with anything in this thread) and then bail out complaining about monday morning quarterbacking. I don't start monday morning quaterback threads. I did not even get into this one until people (you) started making unreasonable remarks regarding people going to let children burn and people not being christian. That is completely unreasonable and non factual. Sorry that makes you frustrated.

John,

From my point of view, the thread in every way is about giving away services which in turn is giving things away. Many before I even entered stated as much and that is why I picked up there with the rest. Go back and read it.

This is a big load of crap. All Christian religions came after Jesus lived on the earth. Most Christian religions don't even come close to the true believers of Christ

I guess I will have to give you some slack because I have no idea what you are trying to say. I guess you got this research from the department of redundancy department. Of course all christian religions came after Christ. It has Christ in the name for pete's sake. It still does not change the fact of when Catholicism started and what rome did to christians. I wonder were the ol term feeding christians to the lions came from?

Most modern Protestant religions come from Catholicism. That is why people such as yourself are confused. I for a long time was confused on the issue but just believed things to be facts until I started researching. Thanks to Wes, I felt challenged in my knowledge in the area and made even more effort to research. That is why Catholicism claims to be the original Christian religion even though it came nearly 400 years after Christ. I am supposed to take the explanation of religion from a man who he himself does not even believe in God? Do the research.

I do agree with you. Most Christian religions do not come close to what Jesus taught. I guess you have been listening after all.

I have never said Bush did not request the invasion. I only dispute all the idiots who at one time or even continue to believe that only Bush had anything to do with this. I think these people are the most dangerous people of all. Talking about being in the pocket of a political party. To willfully engage in the type of outright hatred you people did against Bush in the name of the war is disgusting. That is why I have very little use for any of the current group of democrats. The outright hatred and venom posted on this site only was horrible. You were a ring leader too and very much one of the ones who claimed to hate the war but chose to ignore the voting record and the facts that the democrats continue to support the wars. That includes Obama. This tells me that you and others really were not against the war because I have not seen one post against the war or seen one protest against the war since Obama was elected. Political hack indeed.
At least I am honest. I don't like dishonest arguments and the hate on Bush for the war was just that so I am going to stand up to it. Just like I have even stood up and said Obama can't fix the economy.

On the success of the war, even Obama publicly gave president Bush props. You are making the assumption the war was a failure. Many people including Obama consider the war a success. It just did not have the outcome you wanted, that is why it is a failure You may very well be a antiwar person and I can appreciate that, but, don't mask it in political hackery. If you are mad at Bush for it then I want to see you making post being mad at the democrats for voting for the war, the UN for authorizing it through a resolution and the democrats especially since 2006 and especially mad at Obama for continuing the war.

i just love though when you guys are backed into a corner on your beliefs on the war (political hackery), you guys would (and still do) say Bush sold it to all of them and made them vote that way. The very same guy you and others claimed was so stupid that he would just drool on himself led all these intelligent democrats into voting for something they did not believe in? You mean all these democrats were lead into voting to send American lives into danger without doing their own research? Sounds like a pretty constant theme of modern democrats (or should I say progressives) and you want them in power?

Here is a leaving question for you John.

If catholics are christian (Christ believers), then why do they not believe Christ alone can save them from hell just as Christ said?
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-12-2010, 10:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
To willfully engage in the type of outright hatred you people did against Bush in the name of the war is disgusting.
Of course you find it disgusting. You still think it was a good idea. However, another viewpoint is that many people including me put their confidence in the President to be honest and competent when advocating the invasion. It became clear later that this wasn't the case. It was a war sold to us that betrayed our confidence. I don't what what you are thinking when you say "you people". I doubt you have any idea about what you are talking about. I didn't hate Bush. I just thought that he made a huge mistake and let down the country wrt Iraq. The rest of his performance as President was inconsequentail.

Quote:
You were a ring leader too and very much one of the ones who claimed to hate the war but chose to ignore the voting record and the facts that the democrats continue to support the wars.
That's because I'm not blind to reality. Congressmen have one objective. To get reelected. There are no people in congress that would have led us to war in Iraq. It was barely on thier radar. They are a bunch of sheep that follow the political winds. While the President has the resources of the CIA and miltary, the members of congress can't even be bothered to understand the bills they sign. Remember how big an advocate you are of understanding cause and effect? Well try to put on your thinking cap and use it.

Quote:
That includes Obama. This tells me that you and others really were not against the war because I have not seen one post against the war or seen one protest against the war since Obama was elected. Political hack indeed.
You want to know why? Because it's too late. Bush gave us the gift that won't go away. I would love to see us out of Iraq. But I have no idea how to best accomplish that.

Our political system has degraded to something akin to a 3rd world feudal kingdom. The only objective that the politcal parties have is to destroy each other. It doesn't matter that the Republicans thought that Obama would cut and run on Iraq. And now that he didn't, you are going to use that as an argument that Democrats are wrong to support him. I don't expect miracles from Obama. These kinds of accusations are so transparently stupid that one has to wonder if it even makes sense to acknowledge anything you have to say.

Quote:
At least I am honest. I don't like dishonest arguments and the hate on Bush for the war was just that so I am going to stand up to it.
That's because you believe he was doing the right thing as you have repeatedly said.

Quote:
Just like I have even stood up and said Obama can't fix the economy.
And I would say the same thing.

Quote:
On the success of the war, even Obama publicly gave president Bush props. You are making the assumption the war was a failure. Many people including Obama consider the war a success. It just did not have the outcome you wanted, that is why it is a failure You may very well be a antiwar person and I can appreciate that, but, don't mask it in political hackery.
There is no political hackery. I'm as antiwar as anyone should be. If there is a legimate reason to go to war and it's necesary then you do it. Everyone in politics has to put on a face. YOu aren't going to get a President to say that a war in Iraq is a failure. It's just not done. Amazing you cannot see that. Do you really listen to the words of every politician and take them with face value without any consideration of the necessity to be "politically correct"?

Quote:
If catholics are christian (Christ believers), then why do they not believe Christ alone can save them from hell just as Christ said?
All religious sects have their idiosyncrasies. That's why there isn't one Christian religion. If you believe that Jesus is the son of God and died for your sins, then you are a Christian.

You are an amazing amalgam of contradictions. You continually promote yourself as doing research that others dont, but your arguments are simplistic and ignore the obvious.
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       10-12-2010, 11:13 AM Reply   
Then muslims are christian too? The Quran actually mentions Jesus more than it does Muhammad. Both Catholicism and Islam are extremely similar and even have some rituals that are from each other. The Rosery for example. You claim that because a religion believes in Christ makes it Christian is false. You are try to place simple labels. Both Islam and Catholicism believe in good works (scales of justice) to get to heaven. Christians believe simply that Christ provided a gift of life and believing in him is the path to heaven. That is a huge difference in doctrine. Catholicism has placed men (pope, bishops, priests) in the hiarchy to God. Christians believe you pray to God for guidance directly and only want a relationship through study and prayer. Catholicism also kept paganism and intermixed it with Christian themes. Catholicism came a few hundred years after Christians just as Muslim came a few hundred years after Catholicism.

Say what you want but the information is out there. I can call a pepsi a coke but they are not the same.

On the president being honest. While that sounds great to say out loud and could actually be a position, that is ring true with the actions. Maybe you were not one of the ring leaders, but, it even started with all the people accusing Bush of stealing the election. Then it was Bush either caused 911 or let it happen on purpose. Those were all accusations posted on this board more than once. No one who claims they president wanted honesty from the president does not hold water with me. Sorry if you are different, but people did not want or expect honesty from the president. They already accused him of being a liar.

Kind of funny if you go back and read your own statements in this thread. In one you don't trust politicians and think they are bozos (I agree). The next you expect honesty. You can't have both.

On Obama and the war. I did not expect miracles from him. He is giving me exactly what I expected from him. You like to see Obama as just finishing off what Bush started. I think that is extremely over simplistic and not well thought out. You really think anyone (especially people who campaigned on the issue of being against) is going to continue something they really were against? Take it to the next level. What about all the congress criters. They got elected on being anti war and even took many seats in strong republican areas. They did that all because of being anti war. They had the American peoples support on the issue but yet still continued the war. You chalk it up to Bush left them something they could not go away from. I actually see it for what it is. The anti war position was simply a angle to get elected. Pure and simple and people fell for it. The only democrats that were against it were the radical left like pelosi. So what did they do. They elected the radical left to the democrat leadership so no one can pull out all those public quotes in support of going into Iraq (even before 911 they made these quotes) and also beat them with their voting record. Before the wars the democrats were on the ropes. No one believed in their class warfare because everyone had jobs and they were loosing time and time again in elections. They needed a new angle and the war was it despite the voting records and public quotes on the matter. Once they regained power, they did not stop the wars because they too had seen the intel and knew it had to be done. We are still at war because the democrats were for the war too. I know the president is not going to stand up and say they failed but he is not saying it because he is president, he is saying it because his party was and is for it. If Obama has done one thing, he does things that presidents don't do in many cases. If he was really against it, he would not try and claim it.

Which of the two scenerios sounds more plausible. We are still at war because the idiot election stealing, let 911 happen lying George Bush fooled the democrats into the wars? Or does this: We are still at war because the democrats wanted it too.

Don't know about you but my position seems more plausible considering there are speeches in public record with the democrats saying he needed to be taken out and there are also votes on the matter saying they supported it. There is also the fact that they are still funding it nearly 4 years later. Then if we want there is all the democrats including many on this site and many in congress and I think even Obama that said Afgahnistan is the right war. They are not anti war. They are just for the wrong war. I would prefer to not be in war as a choice but if you look at the history of the two countries and factually what can be gained with a overall culture that has been hijacked by christians eeerrrrr muslims (you almost got me to forget my stance is just because you believe in Christ does not make you Christian). Iraq has the actual chance of spreading western ideas and culture vs afgahnistan. Afgahnistan historically where armies go to die but the democrats have always been publicly for it. I think we can do it and humanity will be better for it since we made the choice to do it.

Here is what you should be mad about (but I don't think you are sadly). The democrats playing politics about the war to win elections. You are absolutely right when it comes to politicians saying what they have to get elected. Because they did that, we now have these leftists in power. They are trying to push through pet projects like environmental nazism in with war funding and things like that. National Health Insurance (not healthcare). The people are pissed. Speaking of politics. Why do we not hear much about the environment these days? Not much anti war marches these days either? How about that healthcare? I figured that would be the one people would be upset about still considering all the people on the progressive websites are mad as hell about it still. How about those gas priced and the end of oil? I figured that would still be a worry of the world. Point is, when republicans are in office all these things are going to kill us. When the children get their way, these issues don't matter.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-12-2010, 12:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Then muslims are christian too? The Quran actually mentions Jesus more than it does Muhammad. Both Catholicism and Islam are extremely similar and even have some rituals that are from each other. The Rosery for example. You claim that because a religion believes in Christ makes it Christian is false.
I can see why all your research leads you to the wrong conclusions. Reread what I said makes a person a Christian. Mentioning the name of Jesus doesn't make you a Christian. If that were true, I'd be one. Also, what does it mean to believe in Christ? Do you think Muslims believe that Jesus is the son of God and was sent here to die for our sins?

Quote:
No one who claims they president wanted honesty from the president does not hold water with me. Sorry if you are different, but people did not want or expect honesty from the president. They already accused him of being a liar.
Even in Bush's second election I was supporting Bush over Kerry. Even though I was beginning to realize what a mistake it was to have invaded Iraq, I still had the sense that continuity in leadership needed to finsh the job. Now that I fully realize had bad an error it was to invade and that finishing the job may not even be possible my attitude has changed.

Quote:
On Obama and the war. I did not expect miracles from him. He is giving me exactly what I expected from him. You like to see Obama as just finishing off what Bush started. I think that is extremely over simplistic and not well thought out. You really think anyone (especially people who campaigned on the issue of being against) is going to continue something they really were against?
I expect Obama to take the course of action that results in the best outcome. Period. Whether he does that or not is irrelevant to my expectations. I don't see why that is such a difficult concept to understand.

I do realize that politicians will not always act in the best interest of our country and with the economy tanking the political environment is getting worse.

Quote:
You chalk it up to Bush left them something they could not go away from. I actually see it for what it is. The anti war position was simply a angle to get elected. Pure and simple and people fell for it.
Fell for it? So intellegent people re-elect the same party back into the White house that did a poor job? Exactly what is the logic for that?

Quote:
Which of the two scenerios sounds more plausible. We are still at war because the idiot election stealing, let 911 happen lying George Bush fooled the democrats into the wars? Or does this: We are still at war because the democrats wanted it too.
Yeah it must be the later because everyone knows that democrats are funding the insurgents. This is about the most laughably ridiculous rationalizations I've heard from you.

Quote:
Iraq has the actual chance of spreading western ideas and culture vs afgahnistan. Afgahnistan historically where armies go to die but the democrats have always been publicly for it. I think we can do it and humanity will be better for it since we made the choice to do it.
Have you ever considered that it's not plausible to convert either country to a western culture and that the purpose for going to war in the first place was to take action against a terrorist attack?

Quote:
Point is, when republicans are in office all these things are going to kill us. When the children get their way, these issues don't matter.
The reason is because this issue of the economy and employment is at the top of the list. Both of these problems fully manifest before Obama even took office. The Republicans are perceived to be the ones responsible for the policy that bought us to that point. And the Republicans are perceived to be an obstruction to progress wrt any new policy. The Republicans aren't responsible for our current economic situation anymore than the Democrats. But people are clueless as to the reasons for the economic decline anyway.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       10-12-2010, 12:49 PM Reply   
I know I said I'm done, but:

"Catholicism came a few hundred years after Christians"

What is your proof for this statement? You have regurgitated it numerous times, yet zero evidence. I gave you unbiased evidence earlier that you are dead wrong, yet you produce nothing. Here's damning evidence to this statement:

"The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "Catholic Church" is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna. Exhorting Christians to remain closely united with their bishop, he wrote: "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

"The Quran actually mentions Jesus...Catholicism and Islam are extremely similar"

More B.S. Catholics recognize Jesus as the son of God and the SAVIOR, Muslims only recognize Jesus as a prophet. This is a huge fundamental difference.

"Christians believe simply that Christ provided a gift of life and believing in him is the path to heaven."

Catholics believe the same. The whole "works" thing you mention is a misconception by misguided protestants.
Old    SamIngram            10-12-2010, 12:57 PM Reply   
WOW, I even have to ask WTF??
Old    Andy Graham (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-12-2010, 1:46 PM Reply   
.
Attached Images
    
Old    Clayton Saidler (csaidler)      Join Date: Aug 2010       10-12-2010, 3:35 PM Reply   
EPIC hijack
Old    Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue)      Join Date: Mar 2009       10-12-2010, 3:38 PM Reply   
Nice Andy! lol
Old    SamIngram            11-14-2010, 11:09 AM Reply   
Hey All!
This article about the house burning was on mises.org today. I read Mises on a regular basis and try to learn from it whenever possible. I thought this article was pretty good and wanted to share.

Burning Down the House

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