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Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-06-2010, 12:43 AM Reply   
I have a 2008 Suburban LTZ. It has the 5.3L with 4-speed tranny, heavy duty tow package, and 3.73 axle ratio. It is about to pass 36,000 miles (bye bye warranty). It's been a good family rig, but there have been a number of little warranty fixes (door locks, rattles, and the like), and I have never really thought it was a great two rig... seems pretty maxed out with my boat on long trips over mountain passes.

I have debated just selling it and getting a 2010 Yukon Denali XL. It has the 6.2L with 6-speed tranny which offers 93 extra HP amd 107 more ft-lbs. of torque. However, the axle ratio is only 3.42 and despite the extra power, the Denali has a slightly lower tow rating (7,900 vs. 8,000).

Getting a new warranty would be nice... but what I really want is a stronger tow vehicle. Would I even notice the difference? I'm afraid I'll get it out on my next long trip with the boat and it will act the same (struggle up grades and tranny fluid exceeding 230 degrees). Afterall, it's still a gasser.

Oh yeah... one more thing: the Denali XL would make my payment go up by $175/mo. If it's a vastly superior tow rig, that migh tbe worth it. But if not then it's basically the same vehicle that we already have.

Thoughts...?

P.S. Please don't tell me to get a diesel. This is my wife's daily driver and she won't go near them.

Last edited by ixfe; 09-06-2010 at 12:51 AM.
Old    Bu Coo (brett564)      Join Date: Jul 2006       09-06-2010, 1:37 AM Reply   
I think if you re-read your post, you will answer your own question. This seems like a no brainer if you can afford it...
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-06-2010, 7:09 AM Reply   
I added a edge power programmer and a cold air intake to my 08 GMC 1/2 ton sierra with the same engine and gear ratio and it made a world of difference more power and better shifting
Old    SamIngram            09-06-2010, 7:22 AM Reply   
It would not be that much different due to the gearing. Also if you can put the Suburban in 2wd and the Denali only has AWD and not 2wd you will lose power there too. I'm just not sure if the Denali can be put in 2wd or not.

If it were me, I would just swap gears in the Suburban. 4.10 will help and 4.56 even more so.
Old    Patrick (jetskiprosx)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-06-2010, 7:32 AM Reply   
I've heard good things about the 6.2 engine in trucks. Not sure how it would tow with the 3.42 rear end. You should take it for a test drive with the boat in tow!

If you don't mind looking at other brands the Toyota Sequia is a pretty sweet rig that has plenty of power and a low rear end (4.30 with tow package). However I think it's a little bit shorter then the suburban.
Old    Abe (reconabe)      Join Date: Jun 2007       09-06-2010, 7:59 AM Reply   
I have a denali and a suburban. I would pick the denali EVERY day of the week.
Old    Austin Top (boardridesurf)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-06-2010, 9:17 AM Reply   
I live in Colorado and tow my 23' Enzo up I70 over the mountain passes of 11,000ft. I had a 2006 5.3L 3.73 Suburban and the only way it would make it over the highest passes was to run it in first gear at about 4,800-5,000 RPM going about 40MPH. I went to a 2008 GMC Yukon XL 6.0 with 4.10 (still 4-speed tranny) hoping for better towing performance. It does tow much better overall, however it still struggles on the passes. The tranny fluid gets hot - around 230 degrees, and the engine temp has to be watch closely (my 5.3 engine never use to get hot), but up the passes I can maintain about 60mph at about 4,200 RPM.

I was really hoping that the 6.0L with 4.10 would lower my stress towing in the mountains, and although it does tow better it doesn't perform as well as I had hoped and now I have the added stress of over heating. It sure seems to me that the 6.0L (For my needs I wouldn't purchase a Denali due to the AWD instead of 4WD) with the 6 speed would be better than the 4.10 4-speed.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-06-2010, 12:24 PM Reply   
Clearly Suburbans and Yukons are way too small to tow a 4000lb boat. Just get this and be done with it.

Old    Trace (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       09-06-2010, 12:38 PM Reply   
Are you towing in 3 or D? With those trans temps, my guess is D.
Old    Jacob Ruppert (jacobs0222i)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-06-2010, 2:25 PM Reply   
I have a 2008 Silverado with the 5.3 and just be glad that you don’t have 3.42s like I do. It tows like crap. I am going to change my gear ratio at the beginning of next year to 3.96 or 4.10 and get the programmer. Not to mention i just got bigger tires, so it tows really bad now.

I think that if you changed your gears to 4.10 it would drive around town a little better and tow better but you will lose a little gas mileage on the freeway.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       09-06-2010, 3:02 PM Reply   
The AWD on the Denali is a big plus for heavy rain, trips to the mountains, the occasional snow. driving on gravel or dirt. That part you won't notice, it will just be better.
The gear ratio is important but it makes the biggest difference starting up the ramp. However you would only be getting a 10% change in torque with the gears and that does not equate to 100 ft.lb.
I would go with the new Denali in a minute. For my wife's driver, It would take me less time than that.
Old    Eric Silva (getssum)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-06-2010, 4:22 PM Reply   
Just put a blower and an aux tranny cooler on it.

Magnusson's making a CARB legal blower, that when installed by an authorized shop will give you a warranty!

Gears would help too!
Old    SamIngram            09-06-2010, 4:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by getssum View Post
Just put a blower and an aux tranny cooler on it.

Magnusson's making a CARB legal blower, that when installed by an authorized shop will give you a warranty!

Gears would help too!
LOL... if that route is an option go with an STS Turbocharger! I have never had so much fun seeing the looks on people's faces as the turbo spooled up in place of the muffler. I had one person ask if I had a vacuum cleaner in the back of my truck...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SN32K3KqUE

Last edited by SamIngram; 09-06-2010 at 4:59 PM.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-06-2010, 8:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by trace View Post
Are you towing in 3 or D? With those trans temps, my guess is D.
I always tow in 3. Tranny fluid still gets hot... not the entire time, but on the long, steap hills it does.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-07-2010, 9:45 AM Reply   
I have an Escalade with the 6.2, coming from a Tahoe with the 5.3. It tows circles around it.
Old    kenw (99air)      Join Date: Feb 2002       09-07-2010, 9:58 AM Reply   
I went from a Tahoe 5.3 with 4.10 gears to the Denali.

The Denali is a lot better tow vehicle.

one of the other differences is the 5.3 makes it power higher in the rpm range vs the 6.2
Old    Cade Osborne (kruiserkat)      Join Date: May 2010       09-07-2010, 10:15 AM Reply   
I love these posts. It always seems Govt. Motors gasser suv's have issues towing and people keep buying them. Try someting else, You won't look back.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-07-2010, 11:15 AM Reply   
Find a nice clean 06 Suburban with the 8.1 and pocket the difference. Mileage isnt all that bad. With 3.73 gears, I get 11 around town/14 on the interstate/10 towing. The only thing that would be better is to swap in a Duramax....which I may do one of these days!
Old    Dave (sordave)      Join Date: May 2002       09-07-2010, 11:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kruiserkat View Post
I love these posts. It always seems Govt. Motors gasser suv's have issues towing and people keep buying them. Try someting else, You won't look back.
I have a Ford F150 and had a Ford Expedition with 5.4L and tow packges. Both tow like crap over long passes.

I have a friend with a Denali that blows me away towing over our passes.
Old     (HighVoltage)      Join Date: Aug 2010       09-07-2010, 12:15 PM Reply   
While the STS turbo kits make big power, I would stay away from them. My buddy put one on his truck, and it did what it should, make a ton of power. The only problem is that he kept blowing his transmission, even after having it built up heavier.

The transmission isn't strong enough for the extra loading, and the brakes aren't big enough to control it safely.

Check out the VW Touareg TDI diesel. It gets good daily around town MPG, has a ton of power for towing, and is a lot quieter than the 80's diesel trucks you remember.

Last edited by HighVoltage; 09-07-2010 at 12:21 PM.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-07-2010, 1:53 PM Reply   
What about changing the ring and pinion on the Suburban to like a 4.11 and changing out the transmission cooler for a larger one? You could probably have the gearing change done for $300 or so and then swap in a large aftermarket transmission cooler yourself for another $100 or so.

This won't help with fuel economy but should reduce the stress on the drivetrain.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-07-2010, 2:03 PM Reply   
just came back from a week in Tahoe towing with our '07 Denali XL. While i do wish the gearing was a bit different, I had absolutely no issues pulling our boat up to the elevation.

used to have an '01 Dodge Durango with the 4.7 liter. Fun times picking up huge speed on the downhill just to have a chance to outrun the big rigs on the uphills, all while the rear end sags toward the ground. Those were stressful trips to Tahoe to say the least.

We had the truck crammed full of kids and gear and the Denali pulled through like a champ. Our truck's been really good to us and going strong with 0 issues at 42k miles...
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-07-2010, 3:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kruiserkat View Post
I love these posts. It always seems Govt. Motors gasser suv's have issues towing and people keep buying them. Try someting else, You won't look back.
Trust me... I've thought about all options. Maybe you missed the part that this is my wife's daily driver, and that really restricts my options. (she's picky). She won't drive a truck, only SUV. That rules out what I really want... 3/4 ton diesel. She also doesn't want something old (e.g. Suburban 8.1L or Excursion diesel). We have four kids and they are busy will all sorts of activities each day... activities that involve gear (e.g. football). The Suburban is really perfect... except for the towing. Like I said in my original post... it's not a complete turd. It gets the job done. I just wish it did it without sweating so hard on those few sections of the trip that demand the most tow power. But if the Denali struggles too, then it's not worth the switch. Sounds like it's a big improvement based on feedback from those who've towed with both.

The only other vehicle she's shown some interest towards is Audi Q7 with the TDI. But that's a smaller SUV so I think it's foolish for us as a family hauler.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-07-2010, 3:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
What about changing the ring and pinion on the Suburban to like a 4.11 and changing out the transmission cooler for a larger one? You could probably have the gearing change done for $300 or so and then swap in a large aftermarket transmission cooler yourself for another $100 or so.

This won't help with fuel economy but should reduce the stress on the drivetrain.
$300 for a gear swap?? Isn't more like $1,000 per axle?

I have considered a new tranny cooler to run along with the OEM cooler. I may just do that. It's just a lot less fun that getting a new Denali with a shiny new warranty. :-)
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-07-2010, 4:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyg View Post
just came back from a week in Tahoe towing with our '07 Denali XL. While i do wish the gearing was a bit different, I had absolutely no issues pulling our boat up to the elevation.

used to have an '01 Dodge Durango with the 4.7 liter. Fun times picking up huge speed on the downhill just to have a chance to outrun the big rigs on the uphills, all while the rear end sags toward the ground. Those were stressful trips to Tahoe to say the least.

We had the truck crammed full of kids and gear and the Denali pulled through like a champ. Our truck's been really good to us and going strong with 0 issues at 42k miles...
Tommy,

Do you watch the tranny fluid temp dispayed in your dash (digital gauge in your cluster)? If so, what is the hottest you've seen it get?

Also, when going up a long, steep grade, how high do your RPM's get to maintain 60mph? I'm regularly over 4,000 in this scenario.
Old    Jacob Ruppert (jacobs0222i)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-07-2010, 4:45 PM Reply   
i just got priced out for the 4.10 gears and it was going to cost about $600 but i only have a 2 wheel drive. I had a shop to my ford ranger for $450 when i had that done about 4 years ago.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-07-2010, 6:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
$300 for a gear swap?? Isn't more like $1,000 per axle?
I couldn't tell you specifically on a Suburban. I remember looking into doing it on my Jeep and it was about $600 for both axles. I was assuming a 2wd Suburban as well as labor being the same relative to the Jeep with maybe a little more cost on the parts themselves.

Maybe I'm way off when it comes to the full size truck axles.
Old    Patrick (jetskiprosx)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-07-2010, 7:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
Trust me... I've thought about all options. Maybe you missed the part that this is my wife's daily driver, and that really restricts my options. (she's picky). She won't drive a truck, only SUV. That rules out what I really want... 3/4 ton diesel. She also doesn't want something old (e.g. Suburban 8.1L or Excursion diesel). We have four kids and they are busy will all sorts of activities each day... activities that involve gear (e.g. football). The Suburban is really perfect... except for the towing. Like I said in my original post... it's not a complete turd. It gets the job done. I just wish it did it without sweating so hard on those few sections of the trip that demand the most tow power. But if the Denali struggles too, then it's not worth the switch. Sounds like it's a big improvement based on feedback from those who've towed with both.

The only other vehicle she's shown some interest towards is Audi Q7 with the TDI. But that's a smaller SUV so I think it's foolish for us as a family hauler.
If you can sacrifice some storage space in the back I would seriously look into the new Sequia with the I-force 5.7. Puts out 381HP and 401ft/lbs. Torque peaks at a low (for a gas engine) RPM of 3600. My tundra tows much better then my dad's Tahoe. Though the Tahoe has much more comfortable seats (tundra has a 'bench' seat). Gas mileage is actually better when towing with my truck cause it's not working as hard. I think I got 9.8mpg on our trip from Salem to Prinville Reservoir last month. That's not great by any means but I would get low 8's in the Tahoe when we loaded it down that much.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-07-2010, 9:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
Tommy,

Do you watch the tranny fluid temp dispayed in your dash (digital gauge in your cluster)? If so, what is the hottest you've seen it get?

Also, when going up a long, steep grade, how high do your RPM's get to maintain 60mph? I'm regularly over 4,000 in this scenario.

Yes, I do keep the transmission temp in the center of the dash. It did get as hot as 225 at a few points, but keep in mind that this is with a very heavily loaded truck pulling the boat and climbing up to 6,000 feet at the peak. It also never stayed there very long, was generally around 200 - 210going up the hill.

I don't know where the tach is at to stay at 60, but it's not running at supremely high rpm's for long periods of time. i never felt like the truck was straining and was jamming past a lot of other trucks pulling trailers.
Old    Rick O (Rick_O)      Join Date: Sep 2010       09-08-2010, 10:43 AM Reply   
I'm not sure how with the bigger motor it would compensate for the 3.42 gearing, my guess is you would see about the same results as your getting now. My Tahoe has the 5.3 with the 3.42 and a buddy of mine has the same 5.3 but with the 3.73 gearing, his is much better hill climbing. I dont know if any of the new GM lineup has anything other than 3.42's do they? Since they are trying to get the fuel economy on the sticker up.
Old    Cade Osborne (kruiserkat)      Join Date: May 2010       09-08-2010, 11:19 AM Reply   
Have a buddy that has a VW Toureg, prob not large enough for your big fam. And very expensive to maintain. IE Brakes that cost 1600 to replace. There is always, Sequoia's and the Nissan SUV's, The new Ford's are pretty impressive also.
Old     (malibudude)      Join Date: Feb 2001       09-08-2010, 1:24 PM Reply   
Is the 3/4 Burb out of the question?
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-08-2010, 1:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by malibudude View Post
Is the 3/4 Burb out of the question?
No... not out of the question. I had initially ruled it out since the 6.0L in the 3/4 Sub has less HP and torque as the 6.2L in the Denali. However, it has 3.73 vs. 3.42 in the Denali. I guess that's why they give it a higher tow rating of 9,600 lbs.
Old    Tim (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-08-2010, 2:01 PM Reply   
The powertrain on the Sequoia along with the tow package gearing is awsome for a gas rig.
Old    Chris (rio_sanger)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-08-2010, 2:49 PM Reply   
I always buy 3/4 ton Suburbans. stronger frames, larger brakes, heavier stronger axles, much bigger stronger differential., stronger transmission, larger cooling system, leaf spring rear and so on... order it with 4.10 gears and you're set.
And unless your wife is counting the number of lug nuts, she won't know the difference
Old    John (summerobsession)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-09-2010, 6:47 AM Reply   
Lots of opinions here, most from people that don't have a Denali. Intersting, but not much good to you.
I just towed my 24' Tige over 1000 miles with my new 2010 Denali and it handled it great!
Positives over standard suburban:
1. 6.2 motor has tons of power and torque
2. 6 speed trans and tow/haul feature make towing brainless
3. Airbags keep the rig level and properly weighted always. And their automatic, again brainless.
4. All wheel drive means not fumbling around at the ramp pulling your boat out on a slick surface. And no, it dowesn't have low range, that's what the little gear selector button is for.
5. Extreme comfort and tons of room inside.

The downside:
1. Fuel economy will not be what a decent diesel will be, however, there are no new diesel suv's so this is a moot point.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6. ......you get the idea.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-09-2010, 10:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rio_sanger View Post
I always buy 3/4 ton Suburbans. stronger frames, larger brakes, heavier stronger axles, much bigger stronger differential., stronger transmission, larger cooling system, leaf spring rear and so on... order it with 4.10 gears and you're set.
And unless your wife is counting the number of lug nuts, she won't know the difference
I love everything you said, exept the part about getting it with 4.10 gears. I looked online at Chevy's web site and the 3/4 ton Sub comes standard with 3.73. I didn't see any option listed to get it with 4.10.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-09-2010, 10:42 AM Reply   
Landcruiser
Old    SamIngram            09-09-2010, 10:45 AM Reply   
To heck with the SUV! Tell everyone else to either squeeze in the back seat or to follow you in the Ford Fiesta....



Get a 12 Valve!
Old    Chris (rio_sanger)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-09-2010, 6:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
I love everything you said, exept the part about getting it with 4.10 gears. I looked online at Chevy's web site and the 3/4 ton Sub comes standard with 3.73. I didn't see any option listed to get it with 4.10.
DBC , that's why I always order my trucks, rather than buy them off the lot.
Just order it with RPO (regular production option) code # GT5 - that represents 4.10 gears
...that simple
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-09-2010, 10:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rio_sanger View Post
DBC , that's why I always order my trucks, rather than buy them off the lot.
Just order it with RPO (regular production option) code # GT5 - that represents 4.10 gears
...that simple
Are you sure this is true of the new Suburbans? I did an online chat today with a Chevy rep (via their web page). They confirmed that 4.10 gears are not offered from the factory.
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-09-2010, 10:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kruiserkat View Post
I love these posts. It always seems Govt. Motors gasser suv's have issues towing and people keep buying them. Try someting else, You won't look back.
I think ^^ he has a Tundra
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-09-2010, 10:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post

The only other vehicle she's shown some interest towards is Audi Q7 with the TDI. But that's a smaller SUV so I think it's foolish for us as a family hauler.
I thought you said 'please don't tell me to get a diesel'? TDI stands for Turbo Diesel.......
Old    JM (suprabruiser)      Join Date: Jul 2008       09-09-2010, 10:43 PM Reply   
I've gone to a 2008 Escalade ESV from a 2004 Ford Excursion with 6.0 liter power stroke. Mileage has suffered some, but speed climbing is comparable between the two with both my 24' Supra and a 23' Toyhauler. Trans temps are higher, but GM transmissions run hotter than Fords. They use synthetic in the GM to compensate for the higher temps. For under ten thouand pounds towing, I no longer am convinced diesel is the only way to go. I sure enjoy the cheaper maintenance as well as the better ride characteristics of the Escalade. The torque and horsepower of the 07 and newer Denali's and Escalades with the six speed overcomes the taller 3.42 gears as long as you stay within the rated tow capacity in my experience.

Last edited by suprabruiser; 09-09-2010 at 10:44 PM. Reason: spelling
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-09-2010, 11:51 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionel View Post
I thought you said 'please don't tell me to get a diesel'? TDI stands for Turbo Diesel.......
Good catch, bud. What I really meant to say was, "Please don't tell me to get a 3/4 Ton diesel pickup like every other tow rig post on WW." My wife isn't interested in driving a pickup.

Diesel isn't really the problem... it's the fact that they mostly only come in pickups that's the problem. If I could order a diesel Suburban I would have already done it! We love the Suburban's size and layout.

The only reason the Q7 would be considered is that my wife saw one once at the Audi dealer (I was there drooling on an S5). She loved how the Q7 looks (inside and out). If we were to get one, I'd insist on the diesel for towing. But like I said, I think it's too small for us (like a lot of SUVs it has no real cargo space).
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-10-2010, 12:22 AM Reply   
So I took a few test drives today...

2010 GMC Denali XL. It was white on black, just like my Suburban. In many ways, it felt like I was sitting in the same car (except for the Denali's faux wood steering wheel that looks and feels cheap). The exhaust is noticably deeper... it really rumbles! It was definitely quicker than our Sub, almost fun to drive.

Then I asked about 3/4 ton Yukon XL. They didn't have one. In fact, the closest 3/4 ton Yukon XL or Sub is hundreds of miles away. So.... I drove a 3/4 ton Sierra in order to at least get a feel for the 6.0L engine. It actually felt like less of a "hot rod" but must stronger low end than the Denali's 6.2L (probably due to lower axle ratio). I didn't like how bouncy the suspension was. I hope the 3/4 ton Suburban isn't that bouncy. I also don't like the factory 8-lug wheels, but that can be changed.

I like the idea of the 3/4 ton Suburban. It's cheaper, has all the bells and whistles, and is rated for 1,500 lbs. more tow capacity and 1,200 lbs. more GVWR. I just need to find one I can demo to make sure the ride isn't too uncomfortable.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-10-2010, 7:59 AM Reply   
I went from a 1500 to 2500 Suburban and the wifey didnt know the difference in the ride. In fact I think she likes the ride on the 2500 better.
Old    Cade Osborne (kruiserkat)      Join Date: May 2010       09-10-2010, 1:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
I think ^^ he has a Tundra
I do and I will not suggest one as it is a truck. Just was suggesting looking out of the GMC box. Telling ya go drive something else.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-10-2010, 2:20 PM Reply   
DBC, I sell Fords which is no secret on here. That said I do like Denali/Escalades/Suburbans and have actually owned a Denali. I like the Ford/Lincoln offering better, Expedition/Navigator. The tow rating with heavy duty trailer tow is 9000lbs on the EL (extended) model I have towed many times with both them when I go on vacations over the Cascades with no problem (with my batteries and lead I'm pretty damn heavy). They are both very nice and refined assuming you get the Limited in the Expedition. The navigation and SYNC on them is second to none. It seems as though you are a GM guy and thats cool but I thought you may wanna take a look at one in your area. I think most dealers would let you go hook it up to your boat and give it a pull, I know I would. This is a motor trend article from 07 but nothing has changed, it pits the Expedition 5.4/3:73 against a 6.0/4:10 Burb with lots of info on towing http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html Some good info.
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-10-2010, 2:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kruiserkat View Post
I do and I will not suggest one as it is a truck. Just was suggesting looking out of the GMC box. Telling ya go drive something else.
I like your truck Post a pic of it and he might change his mind. IX, what does your wife think of the Sequoia?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html

Last edited by lionel; 09-10-2010 at 2:28 PM. Reason: ....
Old    Cade Osborne (kruiserkat)      Join Date: May 2010       09-10-2010, 2:36 PM Reply   
^^^^^^^^^^^ Haha maybe, but I doubt it. I think he just needs a test drive.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       09-10-2010, 3:00 PM Reply   
hmmm an LT compared to a Limited, of course it's first place

what, was it a rental?
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-10-2010, 3:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionel View Post
I like your truck Post a pic of it and he might change his mind. IX, what does your wife think of the Sequoia?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by kruiserkat View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^ Haha maybe, but I doubt it. I think he just needs a test drive.
I can see that I have to address the Toyota question that keeps popping up.

Two years ago when we were tow rig shopping it came down to the Suburban LTZ or the Sequoia Platinum. There were four reasons we picked the Suburban (none of which have anything to do with towing):

1) 2nd row captains chairs: With four kids, all three rows of seats are used every day. Therefore easy access to the 3rd row is important. We had a Durango before and got so tired of having to fold and tumble the 2nd row to get to the 3rd row (or watching the kids just climb over the 2nd row bench with their muddy soccer cleats on). With 2nd row captain chairs the kids can walk right back to the 3rd row just like they would in a minivan (which I will never own). At the time, finding a Sequoia with 2nd row captians chairs was almost impossible... and the ones that had the captains chairs also had a floor console bolted down between them which blocked the path to the rear. Deal breaker.

2) Interior color: Our Durango had gray interior and carpet. We've also tried beige. Both do not hold up well in the PNW with all the wet and muddy feat that get into the car every day (even with all weather mats). So we were 100% sure we wanted BLACK interior and carpets. At the time you could not get an all black interior on the Sequoia. Deal breaker.

3) Cargo space: Since all three seat rows are used daily (in two years we have never folded or removed the 3rd row... not even once), we needed some cargo space behind the 3rd row for groceries, sports gear, camping gear, wakeboards on the way to the river, etc. There is always something back there. The Sequoia barely has any space back there (similar to Tahoe). Deal breaker.

4) Price: In August of 2008, the deals were good on all SUVs (gas was $4/gallon). But the GM deal was better by about $5K. Not a deal breaker, but it sure helped make the decision easy given items 1, 2, and 3.

Back in 2008 I hadn't purchased our boat yet (although I knew it was coming), and I just assumed either rig would handle whatever wake boat I decided to buy. Perhaps the Sequoia is a stronger tow rig. I have no reason not to believe you. But if 1, 2, and 3 are still true, I'd pick the 1/2 ton Suburban all over again. Becasue that is stuff we have to deal with every day. The Suburban tows the boat okay... and it's really only an issue 3-4 times a year where I wish it was stronger.
Old    Bruce Mac (brucemac)      Join Date: Dec 2005       09-10-2010, 3:14 PM Reply   
those are all really good points, and anybody with a couple kids (or more) can relate i'm sure
Old    Cade Osborne (kruiserkat)      Join Date: May 2010       09-10-2010, 3:15 PM Reply   
I agree 100% in your reasoning, and agree that in the last 5-7 years the markets have not kept up with the big suburbans and excursions of the past. Which leads back to where you are. I would say get what you have with as much towing crap that is available on that model, get the big engine, and find a good deal on gears for it. And get the extended factory warranty so you dont have to worry about your tranny overheating. Not alot of options beside that. Or wait a year or two and see what the market has to offer,
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-10-2010, 3:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
DBC, I sell Fords which is no secret on here. That said I do like Denali/Escalades/Suburbans and have actually owned a Denali. I like the Ford/Lincoln offering better, Expedition/Navigator. The tow rating with heavy duty trailer tow is 9000lbs on the EL (extended) model I have towed many times with both them when I go on vacations over the Cascades with no problem (with my batteries and lead I'm pretty damn heavy). They are both very nice and refined assuming you get the Limited in the Expedition. The navigation and SYNC on them is second to none. It seems as though you are a GM guy and thats cool but I thought you may wanna take a look at one in your area. I think most dealers would let you go hook it up to your boat and give it a pull, I know I would. This is a motor trend article from 07 but nothing has changed, it pits the Expedition 5.4/3:73 against a 6.0/4:10 Burb with lots of info on towing http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/...rformance.html Some good info.
Hate,

I'll give that link a read. Sounds like there's some good info. in there.

I am not a "GM guy." The Suburban is my first ever GM product and I've owned tons of cars over the years. My first car was a 1965 Mustang. I have also owned 2005 F-150 FX4 and 2008 Mustang GT.

We looked at the Expedition EL two years ago and didn't like two things about it: 1) The 2nd row captains chairs seems narrow and hard compared to the big, soft thrones we have in the Sub, and 2) The droopy front grill... I really liked the Expo body style until they got this new front end, and 3) I wasn't too pleased with the 5.4L in my F-150. It seemed underpowered to me and I figured it'd be worse in the Expo EL. I have a hard time believing that it can tow better than the 1/2 ton Sub. Ironic that I felt this way back then... now I'm complaining about the 5.3 in the Sub. You just can't please some people.

However, you are right about one thing... the MS Sync system is amazing. I have played with it and it's fabulous... much better than the pathetic GM nav that's in our Sub (which hasn't been improved in the last two years). I had forgotten about Sync and because the Nav is my 2nd biggest Sub complaint (tow capability being #1), I will go and give the Expo EL another look.

The grill I can't get used to...

http://www.leasetrader.com/photos/ac...imited-EL.jpeg


My old Fords... sorry, no pics of the '65 Stang, but she was a beaut!



Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       09-10-2010, 8:43 PM Reply   
Bruce, you in the 'or more' category? No longer man on man, going to the Zone D-fense
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-11-2010, 6:17 AM Reply   
IXFE, I am super impressed with your ability to comparison shop. You remind me of someone else I know. My family calls me the Ultimate Consumer. I have helped purchased approximately 25 cars and 10 boats in the last 10 years for friends and family. May the best vehicle win. Screw brand loyalty.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-11-2010, 9:26 AM Reply   
DBC, yeah the new nav (09+) is sick. The home screen has three screens that can be switched out, its all voice controlled if you want and offers things like weather, movie listings, gas prices around you, sports scores, etc. Hell you can get a radar map on the thing. I actually love the grill on the limited being monochromatic and all. Thats a good looking Mustang. And FWIW, theres a a pretty big difference in the 4spd 5.4 combo and the 6spd 5.4 combo plus the HP and torque were improved.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-11-2010, 12:37 PM Reply   
Alan... I knew we were friends for a reason! Your track record of purchases for yourself and others sounds a lot like mine. My family calls me "Jeeves" as in "Ask Jeeves."

Hate... yeah, the black monochromatic grill looks good. I'm warming up to it. After football, soccer, and cheerleading today we're planning to go look at a few rigs as a family. There are a few EL Limiteds near by, but none have HD Trailer package. But we'll go look anyway just to get an idea and see if we feel differently than we did last time. One thing about that article you posted... it compares the Expo (6-speed) with the Sub (4-speed) and states that's the main reason for the difference. Now the GM's have 6-speeds so I'm not sure the comparison is valid anymore. In fact, I'm thinking the Denali with it's 6.2L and 400+ hp has to be superior.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-11-2010, 2:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
I'm thinking the Denali with it's 6.2L and 400+ hp has to be superior.
Yes thats quite likely and the reason I didn't compare them. I had just noticed you were looking at Burbs and Yukon XL's. Additionally I wanted to compare it closely with what you have as an improvement in towing was a big concern.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-11-2010, 2:12 PM Reply   
Not sure where you live in Portland but Courtesy has a new 2010 in Platinum white with the HD trailer tow.
Old    Darren (h2oaddiction)      Join Date: Aug 2007       09-11-2010, 11:47 PM Reply   
DBC,

I have the same boat you do (with 500lbs of lead in the bow) and go from Sisters, OR to Hoodoo on the Santiam pass several times a week during the summer. I have the Sierria Denali with 6.0 with 4.10 rear end (+custom tune, cold air intake, Corsa exaust) and it does well up the pass (70 mph). Previously we had the DXL. When we used a friend's DXL with the 6.2, 6 speed tranny, it did better over the same trip even though it has the 3.42. Keep in mind the DXL has auto-ride, auto load leveling (no rear-end squat), tranny and oil coolers, and will keep the wife happy. It is very tough to beat the ride quality if it is your daily. I used my Denali XL as my daily driver and tow vehicle for 85,000 miles. Thought I needed somewhat of a truck bed so I got the Sierra and would go back to the DXL in a heart beat. BTW it will tow a new 23 TWB just fine too.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-12-2010, 6:02 AM Reply   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2010-...item255d1d4792



Quote:
DuraBurb is proud to present our latest build. A 2007 Chevrolet Suburban 2500 3/4 Ton 4x4 SUV with GM's Latest LMM DuraMax Diesel 6.6L V8 Turbo Charged Engine putting out 400 HP & 800 LB-FT of Torque, Allison 1000 6 Speed Transmission (with manual shift) and 11.5" Rear-end and is Covered Under our 1 year Unlimited Warranty (Please find the details on Warranty below). We have fully customized this Suburban just like GMs 2010 Suburban which GM had build as a concept vehicle that was recently seen and photographed at the Louisville RV show. Please call us at 407-923-9943 with any questions.



This is a fully integrated DuraMax Suburban, we are the only builder on the east coast that builds DuraMax/Allison SUVs on the 906 (Suburban size) frame. Our integrations are both seamless and OEM in appearance. All diagnostics and operating features work exactly as they would if GM built a Duramax diesel SUV. This Suburban can be easily serviced at your local Chevrolet Dealer with off the shelf parts and run all necessary diagnostic testing using Chevrolet Tech 2 and Candi Module.

/thread.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-06-2010, 1:56 AM Reply   
It's been almost two months since I started this thread, and I figured I owed you all an update...

My research has continued on and off since we last discussed this. I spent quality time driving and reading about the following rigs (along with outcome for each):
  • Expedition EL Limited: Very nice looking truck, especially in black or silver. Amazing nav system. But it's only available with a 5.4L engine (similar specs to my 5.3L) and there is no trans temp gauge. So as much as the dealer poked fun at my Chevy for getting hot tranny, he had to admit that if the Expo's tranny got hot, you would have no idea. So I passed on this rig.
  • Audi Q7 TDI & Silverado 2500HD Duramax: I considered getting the wife a Q7 (amazing mpg's for an SUV) and a Duramax for myself. The Q7 would tow well locally; the Duramax for our longer trips. We test drove both vehicles, and loved them both. But in the end, switching two cars at once is daunting. Plus, we were a little concerned that downsizing the primary family hauler from a Sub to Q7 would be too drastic. Also, i worried about having a huge Duramax as my dailer driver when I'm alone 95% of the time. So this idea was dismissed. Can you imagine if we'd gone from never owning a diesel to owning nothing but diesel?
  • 3/4 ton Suburban: Somebody in this thread really got me thinking about this option. I spent a good month doing nothing but reading about them wherever I could. They are really rare so information is hard to come by. I found one on a lot to test drive. I was 99% sure this was the way we'd go. But I got frustrated trying to find one that matched my specs. I'd have to travel almost 1,000 miles!! Ordering one was considered, but seemed like a hassle, plus I'd lose the rebates that were going to expire on 11/1. So, I decided to pass.
  • Yukon XL Denali: I had all but written this truck off thinking I'd get the 3/4 ton Sub which was cheaper and had a higher tow rating. But there is just so much to like about this truck over the 3/4 ton Sub: all wheel drive, bigger engine, more power/torque, more creature comforts, better looking (imho), and so much easier to find. I worried that since it's a 1/2 ton, it might not be a big improvement in towing capacity, but I took comfort in all the testimonials from actual owners in this thread. Remember, my big complaints with the Sub are power and trans temp. The Denali has the biggest motor (power) and the trans and cooler is identical in the Denali vs. 3/4 ton Sub. So I didn't think the 3/4 ton Sub would be any better for me. So, I bought a Denali! I got the truck for $500 under invoice. Also, we pulled the trigger just in time to get a $4,500 in rebates. So we paid $8K under sticker. Not too bad.

For those interested, here is another similar post I started on a GM board:

http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/inde...ic=121442&st=0




Here a few pics.







Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-06-2010, 5:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kruiserkat View Post
I love these posts. It always seems Govt. Motors gasser suv's have issues towing and people keep buying them. Try someting else, You won't look back.
we live near sea level, and have a summer home in Lake Tahoe, approximate elevation 5,500 feet. We've owned our Denali for 3 years, and have never looked back to prior ownership of Dodge and Jeep. Tows like a champ, even climbing elevation.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-06-2010, 5:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
It's been almost two months since I started this thread, and I figured I owed you all an update...

My research has continued on and off since we last discussed this. I spent quality time driving and reading about the following rigs (along with outcome for each):
  • Expedition EL Limited: Very nice looking truck, especially in black or silver. Amazing nav system. But it's only available with a 5.4L engine (similar specs to my 5.3L) and there is no trans temp gauge. So as much as the dealer poked fun at my Chevy for getting hot tranny, he had to admit that if the Expo's tranny got hot, you would have no idea. So I passed on this rig.
  • Audi Q7 TDI & Silverado 2500HD Duramax: I considered getting the wife a Q7 (amazing mpg's for an SUV) and a Duramax for myself. The Q7 would tow well locally; the Duramax for our longer trips. We test drove both vehicles, and loved them both. But in the end, switching two cars at once is daunting. Plus, we were a little concerned that downsizing the primary family hauler from a Sub to Q7 would be too drastic. Also, i worried about having a huge Duramax as my dailer driver when I'm alone 95% of the time. So this idea was dismissed. Can you imagine if we'd gone from never owning a diesel to owning nothing but diesel?
  • 3/4 ton Suburban: Somebody in this thread really got me thinking about this option. I spent a good month doing nothing but reading about them wherever I could. They are really rare so information is hard to come by. I found one on a lot to test drive. I was 99% sure this was the way we'd go. But I got frustrated trying to find one that matched my specs. I'd have to travel almost 1,000 miles!! Ordering one was considered, but seemed like a hassle, plus I'd lose the rebates that were going to expire on 11/1. So, I decided to pass.
  • Yukon XL Denali: I had all but written this truck off thinking I'd get the 3/4 ton Sub which was cheaper and had a higher tow rating. But there is just so much to like about this truck over the 3/4 ton Sub: all wheel drive, bigger engine, more power/torque, more creature comforts, better looking (imho), and so much easier to find. I worried that since it's a 1/2 ton, it might not be a big improvement in towing capacity, but I took comfort in all the testimonials from actual owners in this thread. Remember, my big complaints with the Sub are power and trans temp. The Denali has the biggest motor (power) and the trans and cooler is identical in the Denali vs. 3/4 ton Sub. So I didn't think the 3/4 ton Sub would be any better for me. So, I bought a Denali! I got the truck for $500 under invoice. Also, we pulled the trigger just in time to get a $4,500 in rebates. So we paid $8K under sticker. Not too bad.

For those interested, here is another similar post I started on a GM board:

http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/inde...ic=121442&st=0




Here a few pics.







Congrats on your purchase. Your denali XL is almost an exact twin for ours, except we have the power running boards.

I rented an Expedition EL for a week last year when we were in Hawaii. I got no experience in towing with it, but it is a nice truck. i got a real appreciation for the power folding third row, and the independent rear suspension is nice for every day driving. there are a few things that bother me about the expedition (the trim rings aroung the gauges look like they cost about $.10 to produce for one. We've had our XL Denali for 3 years now and I honestly have 0 complaints. Never had to take it in for a single warranty issue...43k miles in, and i think we'll be driving this thing for another 100k or so.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-06-2010, 8:16 PM Reply   
You'll love the AWD. Congratulations.
Old    Ed (elc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       11-07-2010, 7:50 AM Reply   
DBC- congrats on the new rig. I would like to hear what you think of the denali after towing with it for a while. I think we have similar opinions in regards to the tahoe/burb, so I would like to hear what you think of the Denali.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       11-07-2010, 5:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by elc View Post
DBC- congrats on the new rig. I would like to hear what you think of the denali after towing with it for a while. I think we have similar opinions in regards to the tahoe/burb, so I would like to hear what you think of the Denali.
I'll do a full update next summer after trips to Shasta and Prineville.

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