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Old    Brandon Holmes (bmh2208)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-02-2010, 6:27 PM Reply   
I apologize for the rant in advance....

So I get a call today on the '09 X-star that I have for sale. They guy goes on to tell me that there was a similar one (year older) sold for $53K. He asked me what I wanted for mine.

I told him I had it originally listed a month ago for $67K, and had recently dropped it down to $64K, but would take $61K if he was really interested. That it was the cheapest '09 on the net with a 100 hours anywhere by almost $10K.

He was like, "well, you don't even want to know my offer then." I said, "sure if do", knowing that this idiot was gonna throw something dumb out there. He said, I'll pay $54K for it.

I politely asked him how he came up with that number. I told him that book difference between an '09 and an '08 $8K. But he said, yeah, well it has the more expensive metallic paint. I said whatever.

I did some more digging later on ebay through completed listings to find the real boat he was talking about. Was really a '09 that didn't include the trailer and ended as a no reserve auction for $52K. I was like holy *****. No way in hell did that boat sell for $10K below market.

So I tracked down the seller. I asked if it really had sold. Was a dealer. Dude gave me some excuse saying yeah, it sold but I've had a hard time getting a hold of the winner. Wont return my calls. Said that it was some kid on his dads account that won it. Bull*****.

Turns out, mr lowballer was 2nd highest bidder to the highest bidder (dealer), and they scammed the price up to $52K.

So my issues with ebay are:

1) Completed listings now show that an '09 X-star with 9 hours is only worth $53K, and people will really believe that when even the cheapest one on the net is mine for $64K (not counting ugly one for $63K with brown interior), and the next cheapest is $70K.

2) People see auctions that didn't end for stuff and think that the highest bid is only what people are willing to pay for it. They're like, well, it only made a bid up to $39K so that's all it's worth. That's the farthest from the truth. Most people don't buy stuff through ebay. It's basically for lead generation these days.

3) You have people putting no reserve auctions up there with them bidding it up them selves to get to the number they need. And then screwing the whole market up when you have to close it for way less than what it should sell for.

Sorry for the rant. It just really irks me when I get calls from these people claiming that they should have a boat for less than wholesale and use ebay bids and fake winning bids as an argument for price.

I really understand people wanting to get great deals. I do too. But some of these people just go way too far.

Even though I hate them, still gotta use them. Not everyone knows about onlyinboards.

Sorry, had to put a picture in. Threads are boring without something to look at. And just so it's not like I'm trying to post my boat up, this one is a different boat that I already sold. Damn, I wish I had 3 more of these. Easiest boat in the world to sell. This X-Star has been a PITA.


Last edited by bmh2208; 11-02-2010 at 6:36 PM.
Old    Chris (worththewake)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-02-2010, 7:13 PM Reply   
That really blows! I really hate these people.....I even get these kind of people from craigslist! By the way, that is a good looking boat but it really is hard to notice in the picture that you posted
Old    Brandon Holmes (bmh2208)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-02-2010, 8:15 PM Reply   
How about this one? A little more discrete...

Old    Matt (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       11-02-2010, 9:35 PM Reply   
That 230 nautique sold so quick because of the pictures you had in your ads! I'll admit, I logged into only inboards and eBay a few times to check the crew out in the pictures, lol. Back on topic, yea eBay sucks because of this. The opposite can happen though, an uneducated buyer can over-pay and then every single owner that is selling now jacks the price up. Look at what some average condition nautique 2001s are going for, obscene for boats over 20 years old...
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       11-03-2010, 7:53 AM Reply   
The technical term for what has happened there is called 'Shill Bidding'. I think it goes on a lot. It is supposedly against Ebay policy. http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...l-bidding.html

I just tried to buy a cell phone from the same guy 4 times in a row, and was outbid at the last second each time. What I am sure that he has, is a variety of aliases and he outbids you up to his 'reserve price'. I kept thinking I was about to get a smokin' deal on the phone only to be outbid in the last 5 seconds. I bid what is probably a fair price and even did it several hours ahead of time and suddenly I won the phone. So in essence, I let him win. But for kicks and giggles I will report it to Ebay.

I think they are using a shill bidder on this Malibu LSV, as that this is the second time it has come up for sale...I asked him what happened and he said something about the buyer not coming up with the money (usual story). http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...#ht_714wt_1167

Ebay can be a good thing, but you just have to be aware that this kind of thing is going on. I wouldn't waste my time with the lowballers. But I think Ebay is rarely a source of people looking to pay a fair price for a good product. When I am on Ebay, I want the cheapest and could care less about building a relationship or customer service, as long as I get my item.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       11-03-2010, 7:56 AM Reply   
And this is the second time around. I should have bid $1 and won the boat!!!!! arrgghhh!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...#ht_714wt_1167
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-03-2010, 9:18 AM Reply   
Frankly I'm surprised people use Ebay to sell any big ticket items any more. It's become so problematic, people complain from both sides, it just doesn't see worth the hassle.

Nice LSV for $40k, Larry. Do buyers use auction snipers to win stuff like this? I've used them for smaller ticket items, and won a few as a result (like cell phone stuff). But I've never been in a position to buy anything more expensive from Ebay.
Old    MattG (pierce_bronkite)      Join Date: Jul 2003       11-03-2010, 10:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Frankly I'm surprised people use Ebay to sell any big ticket items any more. It's become so problematic, people complain from both sides, it just doesn't see worth the hassle.
My thoughts exactly. I rarely use eBay anymore because of the issues. Over the years I have abandon eBay and have used Amazon more and more.
Old    Brandon Holmes (bmh2208)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-03-2010, 12:19 PM Reply   
Matt...it's funny you say that, but I am really starting to think that there is some truth to it. The only two boats that I still have right now ('09 X-Star, and '05 Baja Outlaw) are the only ones that I didn't have my wife go take pics with me. I told here she should have come. It's all her fault. Not sure if you guys are into performance boats, but I have a '05 Daves Customs Boats F-29 (140mph Catamaran) coming tomorrow. I'll be damned if I don't make her get out there in her tiny bikini in October to take some pics.
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       11-03-2010, 2:16 PM Reply   
Sniping- that's what it's called when you do the last second bid and there's software that you can get to do this. I totally believe there are a lot of A-holes out there that set their stuff to sell up with these sniper accounts. IYou think it's a great deal and even when things sell low- they are going back to the guy that listed it! I have seen things get relisted repeatedly and have taken to calling or e-mailing people on e-bay versus bidding and have gotten a number of things early- or before the bid ends for a fair price.

E-bay is well intended- but there are a lot of holes.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       11-03-2010, 3:39 PM Reply   
Nice moves Brandon. Good luck with the sale. We've got a star that'll likely be for sale next season as well. Probably gunning for mid $50's for our '08.
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       11-03-2010, 4:02 PM Reply   
I do a fair amount of buying and a little selling on ebay. Snipe bidding is really the only way to get what you want at the price you want to pay without having somebody else bid $1 over you and grab your deal. I don't like it but I have come to the conclusion that is the only way to win the deals at the price I want to pay or below. Unfortunately at this point it's just a fact of ebay.

Now for selling higher dollar items on ebay. I have never sold anything over $10k but I have sold a couple cars in that range with positive results. The way that I do it is to do things on parallel tracks. I advertise the item on multiple services (ebay, craigslist, autotrader, boattrader, wakeworld, planetnautique, ski-it-again, etc). Where allowed I am upfront about having the item advertised on multiple services, along with links so interested parties can see everything I have out there (ebay does not allow linking to outside sites). I am honest with a reserve or starting price setting those figures at my lowball but acceptable targets. I never get offended by lowball offers, just simply explain to the interested party that I would prefer to keep my item at that figure and thank them for thier interest. I don't see any point in becomming emotionally involved with the transaction. Timing is key, if you can get some competition between buyers you will always end up better financially. If there is only one interested party then you are probably going to end up letting it go for your lowball figure (unless they get emotionally involved with the purchase).

It's tough to sell any used boat for over $50k due to financing issues these days. There is competition for your X-star with older but similar hulls so you need to keep that in mind.

Your Nautique picture looks good enough to be in a marketing brocure. You have a beautiful wife and she adorns your boats nicely. Do you think the manufacturers hire models and deal with challenging photo shoots with them because it's fun? It's not, I have been involved with a couple of photo shoots and they are a PITA even with the eye candy hanging around. The marketing works, use the resources you have available to you if your wife is willing to accomodate it will gain you and her financial benefit.

Best of luck.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       11-03-2010, 4:42 PM Reply   
Just for clarification...

Sniping is when someone legitimately purchases something by bidding at the last second.

Shill bidding is when you bid on your own item to hopefully run up the price on a real bidder, or to actually win it yourself so it does not sell at a price you find unacceptably low.
Old    Jarryd (arrydjay)      Join Date: Jul 2010       11-04-2010, 1:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by talltigeguy View Post
T
I just tried to buy a cell phone from the same guy 4 times in a row, and was outbid at the last second each time. What I am sure that he has, is a variety of aliases and he outbids you up to his 'reserve price'. I kept thinking I was about to get a smokin' deal on the phone only to be outbid in the last 5 seconds. I bid what is probably a fair price and even did it several hours ahead of time and suddenly I won the phone. So in essence, I let him win. But for kicks and giggles I will report it to Ebay.
I would say that would have just been other bidders....The last minute is when most people place their bids, in the hope that no one will have time to outbid them.
Why would the seller want to outbid you in the last few seconds? You wouldnt have time to bid again and win their item....
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       11-04-2010, 5:19 AM Reply   
"Why would the seller want to outbid you in the last few seconds? You wouldnt have time to bid again and win their item...."

Say you have item X and you want to get 20.00 for it. So the auction is close to ending, and the bid on X is only 2.00 (some people do this for business so they cannot afford to take a hit on it, or you would rather keep the item as opposed to only getting a couple of bucks for it). So the seller has a friend (or uses another account) bid it up to say 15.00 to see if someone wants bad enough to at least get close to the 20.00 goal. If no one bids higher, the auction ends, the guy waits a few days, and then runs another auction for X.

This is why I never use ebay anymore for big-price items, and I usually stick to Buy-it-Now items.
Old    owen sealy (osealy)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-04-2010, 3:13 PM Reply   
I Like ebay, I bought my last two boats. One was sniped, other best offer, both less than 5k, prostar & pintara.
Old    Brandon Holmes (bmh2208)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-04-2010, 3:55 PM Reply   
Jarry....even if the seller is the last bidder, they can always say that it was declined and then offer the sale to the second chance bidder, which would have been you that just had gotten bid up another time.
Old    Brandon Holmes (bmh2208)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-04-2010, 4:02 PM Reply   
Figured we all love boats, so a few of something crazy would be okay....

Think I should have my wife straddle the blower belt, or the canopy?





Old    Adam (apwrx)      Join Date: Feb 2008       11-04-2010, 8:08 PM Reply   
thats gotta be a rush! very cool.
Old    Brandon Holmes (bmh2208)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-04-2010, 8:30 PM Reply   
no doubt it should be. I used to love boats like this when I was a kid. Then got into boarding and inboards and just never understood the performance boats from then on. Over the summer, I've got to sell a fair number of Baja's, and I must say they've (fast boats) have grown on me. Yeah, they're pretty much good for nothing except scooting around on the water and going places, but man, what a rush. Gets your blood pumping. I can't even imagine what this thing will be like.
Old    P A (flattirenotube)      Join Date: May 2007       11-04-2010, 9:05 PM Reply   
I love DCB's. I did 110.8 in one down at Powell last summer. I think it was the same hull you've got there. It was an amazing experience that I will absolutely never forget. Good luck on the sale.
Old     (will5150)      Join Date: Oct 2002       11-05-2010, 10:09 AM Reply   
^^^ That's not a boat^^^ it's a missle that floats.. holy cow- how fast does that go??
Old    Brandon Holmes (bmh2208)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-05-2010, 5:45 PM Reply   
Supposedly about 140. we'll see
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-06-2010, 5:01 PM Reply   
Meh, ebay is what it is. When I bid on anything I immediately put in the max I'm willing to pay and that's it. I don't sell anything on eBay since they changed their policies and increased their fees. I sell anything I need to sell on Craigslist, and to buy anyhting I always check Craigslist first. I prefer to deal face to face and deal in cash. I use any of the number of Craigslist aggregators and search within whatever mile radius of me is acceptable to me or whatever the item I need/want is.

For selling a boat I'd list on CL, inboardsonly, oogle. Don't be insulted or even sweat it when people low ball you. It is what it is. Just say no thanks, and give your bottom line price. This is how I deal when I buy or sell things. If asking price is too high I just make an offer of waht I think is fair, or the most I can afford. They either say yes or no. When I sell things I'm not insulted by low ballers, I just say no if it's too low and will tell them my bottom line. Take it or leave it, no swear no stress.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-06-2010, 11:12 PM Reply   
You're trying to sell a used boat on eBay for $60 grand and your surprised it isn't working? I hope you are joking. If you could honestly get $54k for that boat in the late fall you should do backflips and take the cash. And shill bidding is easy for eBay to detect over the long run and they ban any accounts involved, so it's extremely rare to see any shill bidding with well established accounts due to the penalty involved.
Old    Brandon Holmes (bmh2208)      Join Date: Apr 2004       11-07-2010, 10:52 AM Reply   
gangster....My issues is just with the types of people we are getting with leads. I get much better ones through onlyinboards and boattrader. Then my issue is with people jacking the market up with shill bidding that shows completed auctions for $51K when a boat like that that supposedly sold should be well into the $60's.

Boats are worth what you are willing to pay for them. Maybe you wouldn't even be willing to pay $54K for that boat, but there are people willing to pay in the $60's. I've had a few, but their credit turns out to kill the deal. I won't do backflips for $54K, cause that is less than what I paid for it on the wholesale market. When I look around, the cheapest '09 X-star I can find is for $69K (still not counting ugly brown interior one).

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