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Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-01-2010, 3:27 PM Reply   
ive been thinking about this for a while. What are the signs of a culture dying? You know, where prior to the collapse of the infrasturcture the culture itself just dies. What are the signs of a healthy culture?

I tend to look at inventiveness as being artistic, futuristic and new. Everything from technology and industry to art and music is based on imagination. IMO, it seems that concept is all but lost here.

I remember growing up listening to the radio. The modern station wouldnt be caught playing outdated music. 70's music was not relevant in the 80's. 80's music was not relevant in the 90's. However, now the current modern music stations still play music 20 years old. Somehow we havent grown past it. Its still relevant because nothing has replaced it. Are will still really playing Nirvana and STP like it came out yesterday??

I remember growing up loving cars. Each year I got to see the new creative lines on the new cars. Look at the big names in Americana. What does the Camaro look like? or the Mustang? or the Challenger? or the Beetle? We basically ran out of creativity so we are redoing the 60's. Are you serious??
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-01-2010, 4:10 PM Reply   
I don't think either of your examples are proof of a lack of culture or progress. You essentially cited the apex of each cultural movement. In regards to the music, yeah those bands are still relevant, they were the predecessors to what you call "modern music". And each of those cars were icons in american (minus the beetle) auto history. While the music may sound similar and the cars look the same, when you dig a little past the exterior you will that things have changed drastically. A new Camaro kicks an old ones ass. Muse is a lot more technical 3 piece rock band than Nirvana ever was. We are a culture that appreciates our history and our achievements and celebrates them by mimicking and improving. You are looking at things that have limitations and calling those limitations a lack of culture.

I also call BS on 80's music not being popular in the 90's, in LA KROQ (the original modern rock station), was playing Oingo Boingo, Morrissey, Bowie, Clash, Sex Pistols etc etc. That stuff was old but were the predecessors of modern rock.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       11-02-2010, 6:56 AM Reply   
1) there's so much music to choose from, you could just change it from the station dedicated to oldies. Remixes are just a new way for random artists to emerge

2) those cars are mainly bought with high discretionary income, and the majority of the people with that, and interested in those cars, are older-later stage in life people.

There's all types of music and cars to choose from, in todays world it's more that there are too many options, and target markets are more specific
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-02-2010, 7:54 AM Reply   
Those are just a few examples, there are many more. The point with the cars is that we ran out of creativity, so we are rehashing old designs. It has lost its soul so we are trying to re-kindle it by redoing a past era that did have a soul. There is nothing redeeming about the future to sell to the older generation so we have to trick it up retro.

As far as music, we havent had a new genre created and go mainstream. In the 60's you had rock, in the 70's you had disco, in the 80's you had the emergence of rap, in the 90's you had grunge and hiphop. What did you have in the '00's? A whole bunch of nothing. Some could argue house music, but that didnt really take over the culture like the previously listed did. what about 2010? I didnt say there werent good bands. However, they arent doing anything different, like in previous decades. ...and MUSE is great, but not exactly american.

We started our space program in the 50's. We had to learn about space, its effect on living creatures, how to build ships, and how to bring them back safely. In a decade we went from knowing nothing to landing on the moon. We went through a dozen different types of craft. The space shuttle was designed in the early 70's and thats what we still fly today. Really? Going almost 40 years?

In an age where you dont need a record label to front you studio time, we cant get a change in direction from the music world? In an age where computer aided design can make everything in perfect precision, we cant get a new car shape? Are we really still flying spacecraft that were designed 40 years ago?

When I look at pics from the late 70's the look was drastically different from the late 80's. When i look at pics from the late 90's it looks drastically different than from the late 80's. When I look at the late '00's, it looks the same as the late 90's. Young kids are being robbed of being able to make fun of their parents music, clothes, etc. I remember tagging along to my parents 20th HS reunion and hearing them play the music of the day and thinking to myself how crappy it was. If my kid were to go to my 20 year, he wouldnt have anything to make fun of. He would hear Dre, Snoop, Nirvana, STP, etc. Same stuff they play now.
Old    Colin P (PictureMeRollin)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-02-2010, 11:16 AM Reply   
I think it's a sign that you're getting old!!
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-02-2010, 12:09 PM Reply   
Thats exactly what I want!! I want to see the culture grow past me. I want my music on the oldies station. I want the tastes of todays youth to be foreign to me. I want to turn on the music of the day and not "get it". I am old, and the music of my youth is still on popular radio as good modern music. Too me that says the culture has not advanced like it has for the many decades prior.

My dads musical brain shut off in 1967 because the music after that was so foreign compared to what he grew up listening to, and he is a guitarist! I will feel much better about our society when some crazy new genre of music captivates the youth and changes all music forever. I cant wait til I think it sux and my musical brain shuts off, just like every generation before me. You kids are robbing me of my right!!!
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-02-2010, 12:16 PM Reply   
hold your horses there, I can see your point(s) but I think our culture is far from dead.

Cars-yes they have gone retro, but they have also evolved. Look at corvettes. The C6s look way different than the early corvettes. Pickups are becoming more and more polished and sleek in their lines, same with the minivans/SUVs. I would agree that that doesnt necessarily mean improvement, but I think cars from the 70s and 80s were a huge step back from the 60s in design. The point is, there are still new ideas, just in American cars. Now take a look at international cars (BMW, Ferrari, Koenigsegg) and the improvement in design and modernization in recent years is huge.

As for music, we definitely have new genres emerging. The problem is that its too early to say which if any will define our generation. That is determined years later. Some potential break out recent genres are house (90s/2000s), dubstep (really taking off now. huge in college, spreading fast), white college rappers (sam adams, etc) and the kid cudi/lupe fiascos (still hip hop, yes, but definitely an evolution of what was popular in the 90s/2000s), the autotune rappers (not proud that people call this hip hop, but its becoming huge. everything is becoming autotuned, and this kind of hip hop is turning into a genre of its own as club hip hop music...think t-pain). Lastly and most importantly IMO is rock/reggae/stoner music. Think slightly stoopid, 311, the movement, rebelution, dirty heads, etc. This has evolved from Bob Marley Rasta Reggae to a new genre completely. It encompasses the stoner spirit of america and beach lifestyle. Its growing a lot, but dont know if itll ever become truly mainstream, but that genre has really blown up and is truly unique/new. It was founded off Bob Marley and even Dispatch/Sublime but Hendrix evolved from Blues. Every new genre comes from something else.
Point is, in 10-20 years you start to see what really took off and defined a time. We started to see that with Nirvana, and the next one to emerge IMO will be RHCP. I think theyll be a band that will define the 90s-2000s like Hendrix did the 70s or Beatles before him. Whatll be after RHCP is anyone's guess.

Spacecrafts, thats just a matter of saving money. Dont fix it if its not broken. Think about how many new satellites we have put into the sky with cell phones, GPS, and sat TV. Thats quite a step. Mars is probably the next, but with the lack of money to do so and the lack of reason, itll probably be a little while. The technology is pretty much there.

As for clothes, open your eyes! Again it takes years after a fad ends to recognize it with a generation but what about JNCO jeans and high tops, then skate shoes, then jeans went from baggy to skinnier, cargo shorts came in and out, and now we have huge popularity of Uggs, leggings as pants, and ridiculous colors (kind of 80s, but more than just neon, you have purple/teal fitteds etc). Fitted hats, crazy colored nikes, uggs, and leggings will be some of the fashion styles that will define the 2000s/2010s.

As for a culture movement in itself, look at hipsters. I cant stand them, but theyll be remembered as a movement just like hippies or the gothic->emo fazes. Fixies, v necks, starbucks, no shoes, toms shoes, horn rimmed glasses, etc.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-02-2010, 12:28 PM Reply   
If you want to make a mint in 20 years, sit on a warehouse full of integra type-r's or rsx type s's. What's "hot" in cars today is a reflection of 50 and 60 year old dudes with the discretionary income to buy their boyhood dream cars. Same will be true 20 years from now, but the cars will change. Maybe some mint 5.0's or IROC's for a nearer term play.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-02-2010, 2:37 PM Reply   
IMHO a culture begins dying the moment the local nationality takes a back seat to foreign pride. These days patriotism is considered a bad (and potentially "racist") word...being proud to be an American is a tag line that carries very little weight. In a culture where foreign languages are both accepted and rewarded through continual legal and social catering to those people; the end result in the diluting of the patriotic brand...and a cultivation of a divided culture. One where its not only "okay" to be anything but an American...but rewarded through social injustices and reverse discrimination.

In a more acute analysis, America...specifically, is being ripped apart by social injustice(s) and a blatantly corrupt government which continually takes away from those who prosper and gives to those who fail...the exact opposite of the very basics which this country was built upon.

Flame suit activated.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-02-2010, 6:44 PM Reply   
I'm not saying we aren't putting out new stuff, only that it isn't changing the game like every decade before. In the late 80's early 90's hair metal was modern rock. However, when Nirvana came along they immediately made all hair metal obsolete. It didn't take a decade to see. It was instant. The new next big thing has always been drastic and instant. I've merely noticed that nothing has come along and made Nirvana RHCP STP etc obsolete. The modern station is playing stuff that's 20 years old. Never has there been such a static time.

As for cars, the euros don't seem to be going retro. They manage to come up with new designs. I think the Vette is a prime example. Chevy keeps hog tying itself with the Corvette. They could put out a real mid-engine performance car with the superior corvette technology. Instead they rehash the old name and make the new tech fit the old style. Some people will buy it because it's a vette. Others will not because of the name stigma alone. How about something new?

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