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Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-11-2010, 4:29 PM Reply   
Thunderhill on Saturday. My best riding ever. Shaved 6 second off my time. In the 4th session I pushed the bike past the limit of my street tires and this happened.
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Old    Wes (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       10-11-2010, 4:54 PM Reply   
Holy crap dude! Hope you are in one piece!
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-11-2010, 5:00 PM Reply   
Bet he's hardly sore...sorry to hear about your wreck but of course its bound to happen at some point.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-11-2010, 5:05 PM Reply   
I'm good. Big nasty bruise on my hip. Sore knee. And a rash the size of a dime on my wrist.
Old    Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue)      Join Date: Mar 2009       10-11-2010, 5:09 PM Reply   
J-Rod, what year is your bike? Buddy is partying one out and has everything minus the motor that he kept for racing
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-11-2010, 5:09 PM Reply   
holy crap man. sorry to hear it. what are the plans now??
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-11-2010, 5:29 PM Reply   
Robert, my RSV is a 2007. I need a new frame, left rear set, clipon, airbox, and both resevoirs (and a few other things). Anything 2005 - 2009 would work. Let me know. I'm interested for sure.

My plan is to rebuild if it can be done for a couple grand, which I doubt. Or part her out and buy another track bike.
Old    John Anderson (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-11-2010, 5:34 PM Reply   
Glad to hear you're ok.
Old    Stanfield (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       10-11-2010, 8:39 PM Reply   
Serious question, is it worth the risk financially? Seems like an impossible sport to afford, didn't you just get that bike in the last few months? 1 day out riding and a couple grand of damage is a tough pill to swallow. What happens if you can't find a frame with a title and you can no longer ride it on the street? It wasn't solely a track bike already was it? I've always been interested in track days, but never get past putting some numbers to paper.

I guess your wallet taking the hit is better than yourself though.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-11-2010, 9:33 PM Reply   
Totally. It was just a bad move to buy this bike and ride it on the track. My plan was to buy one bike and use it for both track and street. Then I decided to push things a little harder on the track.

The smart move would have been to buy a dedicated track bike like Cliff did. For $2500 to $5000 you can get a great track bike that is already set up with cheap, track body work, that has already been taken off of the street permanently. Many are salvage titles. Cheaper to repair and you take less of a hit if you total it.

Granted it was a foolish move, I'll actually end up okay on this deal. I laid this same bike down a couple months ago on the street and the insurance company paid me about 85% of what I bought the bike for. I made the repairs myself for $500 with used parts and held on the rest. If I part out the bike, I'll still come up on this bike a couple thousand.

Bike aside it's still expensive. Track days are $200, you burn $100 worth of tire, plus gas and other misc stuff. If you lay it down, it could be a couple hundred, or much worse.

If you ask me... it's worth it. You won't find another feeling like it. So intense.

Last edited by jarrod; 10-11-2010 at 9:35 PM. Reason: typo
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       10-12-2010, 12:33 AM Reply   
Great to hear you're okay Jarrod! That stuff is a kick in the junk, but definitely makes you feel alive. Was it a lowside, or a highside crash (guessing by you being okay, with minimal rash, it was a lowside that the bike turned into a highside bike tumbler)?

But outside of that, did your GoPro happen to catch the wreck and/or make it through the crash?
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-12-2010, 8:03 AM Reply   
Sorry to hear about the crash Jarrod. Bright side is you're ok. Looks like you've got a dedicated track bike now.

I know what you mean about running dots. I'm rolling on Pirreli Dragon Super Corsas and my buddy can carry waaay more speed into the turns with race slicks. I'm coming to the realization that tires are gonna be a cost I just won't be able to get avoid if I want to keep pace as I move up.

I'm loving my latest aquisition. Going from 85hp to 135hp was a total eye opener. I was able to bump up to expert now that I have the power to run with the pack in the straights..
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Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-12-2010, 8:31 AM Reply   
If I would have been running the super corsas, I might have been okay. I let my buddy talk me into just running the Dunlop Q2s. Could have been a mistake. But I think I might have just run out of tire either way. I went into the turn way too fast, and had no choice but to keep leaning the bike further to hang the turn.

Awesome that you're running experts. Is that the highest level in your track groups? We have A, B, and C. Or Keigwins has B-, B+, and A.
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       10-12-2010, 10:55 AM Reply   
"I went into the turn way too fast, and had no choice but to keep leaning the bike further to hang the turn."

Ah... but you were smart enough not to stand it up and end up high siding. That's a win in my book!


I probably couldn't hang in expert during race season. Most of the race orgs are done for the year and the racers have stopped coming out. The level of riding in expert is deluted enough right now that I can hang mid pack and learn to shave time off my laps. I've been working on cleaning up my form in the corners but I still cross up my body position whenever I feel like I'm coming in too hot. I just need to learn to lean and believe!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-12-2010, 11:13 AM Reply   
"I just need to learn to lean and believe! "

exactly. I now have myself pretty well trained. I never chop the throtle, and when in doubt, I lean further. It took a while to get that way, but once I bought into the fact that it's always better to stay committed to the turn and possibly low slide, then it is to stand it up and run off the turn into who knows what, I ended up riding much faster.

That's still awesome that you can set foot in the Expert group. I'm running front of the pack in B+, which is probably the same speed as the slowest A group guy. I need to shave off a couple more seconds and then I'll bump up.
Old    Brian Miller (brianmiller)      Join Date: Aug 2003       10-12-2010, 11:16 AM Reply   
That sucks. How fast were you going?....Time to bust out the dirt bike!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-12-2010, 11:30 AM Reply   
Turn 6 is about an 80+ mph turn. I was somewhere in that range. Maybe closer to 90...hense the crash!
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       10-12-2010, 11:39 AM Reply   
Sometimes you get lucky, and sometimes you don't. I lowsided in the same turn on my dedicated track bike, picked my bike up and rode it for the rest of the weekend without any damage. It's the tumble during the slide that causes all the damage.

I'm not sure I agree with you guys about committing to a lowside rather than standing it up and riding off. It depends where you are, but experience will save a lot of heartache. There are miles of run-off outside where Jarrod went down. He knew he was too hot from the moment he turned in. You can scrub a lot of speed in a corner, then stand the bike up and ride off safely. Just make sure you go straight off and are straight up before you go off. The pro's do it all the time.

The whole slicks thing is an interesting debate. There are a lot of guys out there running super-stock classes that just kill it on DOT tires. You can easily run track times 10 seconds a lap faster than Jarrod or I can go on DOT tires with the right rider. Knowing the limits of the bike and tires is more important than having unlimited grip so you can go out and ride crappy lines all day long. For most track days (unless you're using it as a test day or practice day on your full race bike and you run slicks on that bike) slicks are totally overkill. They do put a big bandaid on lack of skill. Just like a litre bike does. Anybody can ride a bike around that you can't touch the limit of adhesion on, then twist the throttle to go fast down the straights.

I'm just throwing that out there. Luckily Jarrod's alright and the accident on the street made this whole deal much easier to stomach. You just weigh the risk vs. reward. He had probably 8+ track days on his Honda and never put it on the ground. Sometimes it's just your time.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       10-12-2010, 11:49 AM Reply   
For reference.... Michael Ernst who's a rocket at Thunderhill turned a 1:57 lap on the same Dunlop GP-A's that Jarrod was riding. That was on a street stock GSX-R 1000. That's monstrously fast. Not even ball park with the 2:10's that a lot of track day guys go on slicks.
Old     (fatsac)      Join Date: Jun 2004       10-12-2010, 1:17 PM Reply   
Exactly why my TL won't touch the track. I'll either sell it and get a dedicated or own both. Sorry to see this, Jarrod!!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-12-2010, 4:14 PM Reply   
I personally wasn't commited to a low slide crash....I was commited to the turn and still had a little confidence that I COULD it out. Yes Thunderhill has a ton of run off, and had I stood it up, I might have been fine, or I might have been hurt a lot worse who knows. As you know, a lot of other tracks have turns that dont have run off. Walls, tires, fences, etc... On the street there is no run off ever really. If you have a habit of trying to stand it up (like a lot of riders to), you could be really screwed if that's your instinct.

It took me a long time to break that tendency. I still think it's a safer bet in a lot of cases. Of course, if you're that good to consider your options and make the best call at that time, that's the way to go.

Riding proper lines and having the experience to control a bike that breaks traction will get you a long way. Ernst was probably spinning those tires out of every corner, and staying in complete control.....not me! :-) I need to learn how to ride proper lines, but while I'm learning, I'll take the tire that is less likely to break lose and risk a wreck. There's no reason not to. Those Super Corsas Cliff mentioned are still DOTs, but they're race compound at least.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       10-13-2010, 11:50 AM Reply   
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/545/49...omparison.aspx

Those GP-A's are top of the pile, real legit, supersport race tires. They're most definitely not a street compound.

Anyway... track and street are a different thing. Crashing on the street isn't an option. Unfortunately it happens. Crashing on the track is an option. When you get that oh-crap-I've overcooked this corner-type feeling you gotta weigh your odd. Maintain neutral throttle, stand the bike up, try to keep it on the track, but if you ride of, then ride off straight and pick up your rear brake. That's the kind of thing that comes with experience. You can prevent a lot of the oh-crap moments if you stick to the old mantra "slow in, fast out". Over brake the corners, get on line and pick up throttle early. You end up way more in control and get a really great drive down the straight where you really make up time.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       10-13-2010, 12:28 PM Reply   
I can tell you those dunlops didn't get half as sticky as the Pirelli Supercorsas. And, every instructor that looked at my crashed bike said...."you we running street tires....why?" The first comment came from an instructor in tech before the day even got started.

I was also able to break loose the Dunlops while accelerating in a straight line several times before they were up to full temp. Never happens with the Pirellis once.

Not blaming the tires, but it back to Pirelli's for me. I trust them more.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       10-13-2010, 1:25 PM Reply   
Eh, the instructors probably don't know what's up. I instructed forever and wasn't nearly as informed about the new stuff as the internet junkies. I always just used what worked and let the internet junkies blather on about technical BS. They're pretty new tires, but they're getting great reviews. Read the link I put up. There really aren't any bad supersport tires around anymore. Definitely ride what you're comfortable with, but the absolute limits are going to be in the same ball park. They probably broke loose in the straights because you were putting litre-bike twin torque into them, instead of 600 power.

That said, again, use what you're comfortable with. You'll never be fast if you've got something in your head.

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