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Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       09-14-2010, 9:02 AM Reply   
There was earlier discussion about financing and some people said rates are very low right now. I've been able to find as low as 6.5% (requires 20% down) at a local credit union. Has anyone found anything significantly less? That's for 144 months on a new boat purchase.
Old    J D (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-14-2010, 9:14 AM Reply   
damn - 12 year? that's nutso..

We got 3.99% on ours but it was only for 3 years - local credit union.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-14-2010, 9:24 AM Reply   
I got 4.55 for 77 months at a local credit union.
Old    ScottRobinson            09-14-2010, 9:33 AM Reply   
Try your local State Farm Agent.
Old    Jeff Egli (jdoggy_73)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-14-2010, 9:34 AM Reply   
6.5% is pretty damn good... We got ours (12yr) at 6.95% last September on a new boat with 20% down. The used boats interest rate were near 12%.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-14-2010, 9:39 AM Reply   
IMHO don't do it. Buy a cheaper boat that you can pay cash for. You can have just as much fun (Probably more due to the lack of stress caused by a new boat that's not paid for) on a used boat that's in good working condition.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-14-2010, 9:47 AM Reply   
not to mention making payments while you look at your boat in the yard all winter.
Old    Mattgettel (mattgettel)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-14-2010, 9:54 AM Reply   
12 years?!
I bet when you sell that boat after 5 years you will find out you only made payments on the interest. damn.
Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       09-14-2010, 10:06 AM Reply   
I hear what you guys are saying regarding paying cash. I sold my prostar 190 that I've had for 7 years because I really want to step it up a notch. I've been looking for a nice used boat below $30k for almost a year and every time I find one that's in decent shape it turns out to have hidden or not so hidden serious problems. I don't mind making payments, in fact, making $300-$400 a month payments for 10-12 years is much less stressful than spending the next 7 years saving up the money. I'm not getting any younger, that's for sure? I'm used to having the boat sit for 9 months a year. Other than my house, this will be my only debt. Not great, but *shrug* I only live once.
Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-14-2010, 10:51 AM Reply   
What boat are you looking to get?
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       09-14-2010, 11:14 AM Reply   
That is a pretty good rate. Like you said you aren't getting any younger and you have very little debt. If it is the boat you want and the price is right pull the trigger.
Old    Tommy Boy (twelve02)      Join Date: Aug 2010       09-14-2010, 11:36 AM Reply   
I would only pay cash for a boat as well, if I have to make huge payments every month then I simply can't afford it. Paying off interest sucks and I don't do it. The only debt I have is my house and my mortgage is super low, 20 year fixed. I am a firm believer in saving money for stuff I want. A boat is a toy not a necessity so just keep that in mind when buying one. All boats are gonna need fixing and upgrades, so I would rather buy something a little less expensive knowing that i will have to spend some money on it. But it's mine and if I need to get rid of it, I don't have to worry about paying off the bank.
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-14-2010, 11:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by saberworks View Post
I don't mind making payments, in fact, making $300-$400 a month payments for 10-12 years is much less stressful than spending the next 7 years saving up the money. I'm not getting any younger, that's for sure? I'm used to having the boat sit for 9 months a year. Other than my house, this will be my only debt. Not great, but *shrug* I only live once.
Man, I'm in the same situation and share very similar thoughts. Only have house and boat payment, no other loan debt. I'm young(er), bought a new VLX back in spring 2008 when the economy was hitting the fan. I was told from the loan officer "my lack of credit history " and the "credit crunch", resulted in a high interest rate. I decided to go with it and financed for 12 years. The payment is a bit high, but manageable. I am a team rider for a local dealership and got a somewhat decent deal on the boat, but need to do something soon to lower the interest rate to avoid chewing into my down payment "equity" any more.

If you want to progress and learn, you need a big wake and good equipment. As everyone on here knows, that takes alot of money whether its cash, or loaned from the bank. You are very right about only living once - embrace that, as many people do not. Get the boat and payment that makes YOU happy, but make sure you can do it within your means and keep food on the table.

On a side note, I could use some recommendations on where to get a refinance...
Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       09-14-2010, 12:01 PM Reply   
I'm on the flip side as I'm about to put my boat up for sale. The wifey's job is taking hit and we're not sure how much longer she will be able to get paid? Fortunately we bought our boat at the right time, at the right price, and with a great rate. This has left us right side up on our boat loan which will allow me to offer the boat for around $2-3k less than I've seen ads for similar model/year boats go for.

Sooooo, if anyone is interested in a nicely equipped 2004 Supra SSV with less than 400 hours on it for $30,500..... let me know. I'll be posted ads later this week with full details.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-14-2010, 12:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhyatt_ohp View Post
but make sure you can do it within your means...
I think by definition if you're using debt you are using someone else's "means".
Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       09-14-2010, 12:21 PM Reply   
I am looking at a new 2010 axis a22 fully loaded for $45k. I've been looking at used boats around 30k for months and every one has significant issues despite what their ads say. I'm on the fence about this, still not sure. The deal sounds good, it's just more than I was looking for. Every other axis dealer wants $48k for a boat with half the options and nobody's willing to budge.
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-14-2010, 12:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
I think by definition if you're using debt you are using someone else's "means".
I bet you are a Dave Ramsey fan...

I mean really...saving money for everything, letting the good times and the glory days of your younger life go to waste. Then finally when you have that $30k+ saved up for a nice boat - you've wasted 10-20 years. At least that's how long it would take a normal American to save it up.

Some of you may have been blessed by the Lord enough to pay cash for nice wake boats, but alot of people like myself didn't come from money and have to borrow funds to have a boat. Respect the fact that some have a decent personal history/credit score/income (IMO all personal "means") and are able to obtain a loan to get on the water and do what they love. If you don't have anything decent to mention, don't post in this thread!
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-14-2010, 12:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by saberworks View Post
I am looking at a new 2010 axis a22 fully loaded for $45k. I've been looking at used boats around 30k for months and every one has significant issues despite what their ads say. I'm on the fence about this, still not sure. The deal sounds good, it's just more than I was looking for. Every other axis dealer wants $48k for a boat with half the options and nobody's willing to budge.
That is awesome man, great boat choice. Not really sure where your located, but call TNT watersports at 615-826-2655 or visit www.tntwatersports.com. They will be able to price a Axis for you and will be competitive.
Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       09-14-2010, 12:45 PM Reply   
Saberworks - what type of significant issues are you coming across with the used boats you have looked at? Are we talking major motor/ tranny issues or cosmetic hairline cracks in the gel?

As I said, I'm getting ready to put my boat up for sale and while writing up ad copy for my boat I find myself deciding what to put in and what to leave out. On one hand you don't want to scare off potential buyers by listing every tiny thing that's not perfect. On the other hand you certainly don't want to not disclose everything that's wrong. The bottom line is that I have a super clean well taken care of boat that most people can't believe is 6 years old. However, it's a 6 year old boat and there is a ding here and small tear in the upholstery there. Used v-drives in the $30k range aren't going to be perfect. If they are then most likely they weren't used very much and then you may have a much larger issue buying a boat that's sat for most of it's life. I'm just curious where most used buyers are regarding expectations of a used boat?
Old    Tommy Boy (twelve02)      Join Date: Aug 2010       09-14-2010, 12:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhyatt_ohp View Post
I bet you are a Dave Ramsey fan...

I mean really...saving money for everything, letting the good times and the glory days of your younger life go to waste. Then finally when you have that $30k+ saved up for a nice boat - you've wasted 10-20 years. At least that's how long it would take a normal American to save it up.

Some of you may have been blessed by the Lord enough to pay cash for nice wake boats, but alot of people like myself didn't come from money and have to borrow funds to have a boat. Respect the fact that some have a decent personal history/credit score/income (IMO all personal "means") and are able to obtain a loan to get on the water and do what they love. If you don't have anything decent to mention, don't post in this thread!
Brandon, relax...

What Jeff said is actually true, if you don't have the means, you need to borrow them, that's what a loan is. I agree with Jeff, if you have to take out a 10-12 year loan to pay for a boat, then in my opinion, that is excessive. Paying down the principle on a 10 year loan is going to cost a lot of extra money, it's as simple as that.

And, just because you are young doesn't mean 'your' glory days are the only days you're going to have. I'm almost 40, and I can tell you my life is way better now than when I was 25.

Just food for thought, there's nothing wrong with saving for things that you want. Yes, saving 30k could take a long time, but if you saved 10k and then financed the rest, it might be an easier pill to swallow and not need a 10 year loan.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-14-2010, 12:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhyatt_ohp View Post
I bet you are a Dave Ramsey fan...

I mean really...saving money for everything, letting the good times and the glory days of your younger life go to waste. Then finally when you have that $30k+ saved up for a nice boat - you've wasted 10-20 years. At least that's how long it would take a normal American to save it up.

Some of you may have been blessed by the Lord enough to pay cash for nice wake boats, but alot of people like myself didn't come from money and have to borrow funds to have a boat. Respect the fact that some have a decent personal history/credit score/income (IMO all personal "means") and are able to obtain a loan to get on the water and do what they love. If you don't have anything decent to mention, don't post in this thread!
Not really a Dave Ramsey fan but I've listened him a few times. Savings builds up a lot faster than you think when you're not paying a large chunk of your monthly income each month towards interest though.

I've taken out 3 loans on depreciating items (All cars) in my life (I'm 31 BTW). By the 2nd one I realized that it wasn't the way to go but still allowed myself to be lured into overspending on a 3rd one (All at separate points in time). I never got upside down with debt but after that one I decided it was enough and have managed to avoid it for a few years now.

I have a $14k boat BTW and I feel really blessed to have it. And I bet that me and my family and friends have just as much fun as the guys with a boat loan and a $50k boat. I'd love to have a $50k boat but I just can't justify the interest, annual depreciation, and insurance on top of normal boating expenses. If I knew that having the boat and using it was costing me $15k per year then it would ruin a lot of the fun for me.
Old    Cory D (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       09-14-2010, 1:58 PM Reply   
I was presented with a similar option as your 12 year loan. A while back I was considering some used Sport Nautiques (among other boats) in the 12k-17k range. While I could pay cash in that range it would be overextending myself as I didn't want to drop more than $10k in one shot, I always like to have a reasonably large stash of cash just in case. I found one I liked for $15k and tried to get a 2-3 year loan with 50% down or even a 1 year and put $10k down. No love from two banks, they didn't like that I've never financed a car (I think taking a loan on a car is a terrible waste of money) or similar priced item but said since my credit score is excellent they would gladly loan me whatever I wanted for a new or less than 3 year old wake boat for as long a term as I wanted (they said up to 15 years!). I laughed and said no thanks, find another sucker.

Ended up buying an '89 Supra and paying cash. Sure it needs a few things but it's perfectly usable as is and by the time I have it where I want it I'll be well under my budget and have no payments and no interest. I feel I got a good deal on it given the overall condition. Sure I'd love a new $50k wake boat but I'm not taking a 7, 10, or 15 year loan for it!

My advise, which is worth what you paid for it, is to buy used and pay cash (that would be the $10k-$20k you'd put down on a new wake boat) or if you can get a loan for a used boat, take out a 3 year or less loan and put at least 25% down.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-14-2010, 2:18 PM Reply   
The OP asked for interest rate information. Why does everybody have to jump on him and tell him how stupid he is for having a boat loan? He didn't ask for your opinions on personal finances. Lay off him already and take your preaching somewhere else.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-14-2010, 2:32 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
Why does everybody have to jump on him and tell him how stupid he is for having a boat loan?
I don't think anyone said that he was stupid. I know I didn't.

I commented mainly because I've been there (Not specifically with boats) and nobody suggested to me that it was a potentially bad idea and that there were other good options. If they had I may have reacted exactly like you or I may have avoided a couple of events in my life that seemed like a great idea at the time but now I view them as mistakes.
Old    Tommy Boy (twelve02)      Join Date: Aug 2010       09-14-2010, 2:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
The OP asked for interest rate information. Why does everybody have to jump on him and tell him how stupid he is for having a boat loan? He didn't ask for your opinions on personal finances. Lay off him already and take your preaching somewhere else.
We're actually trying to help the OP out by not going into 144 month loan if possible.

Let's do the math. I'm assuming a 40K loan with no money down of course.

Loan Amount - $40,000.00

Interest Rate - 5%

Length of Loan - 144 months / 12 years

Monthly Payment - $369.96 / Monthly principal & interest

Total Payoff - $53,273.69

That's right, you pay an extra $13,273.69 dollars at 5%. I bet it would be hard to even get 5% without outstanding credit. My guess is that anyone who takes out a 12 year loan for a boat does not have outstanding credit, I could be very wrong, but I don't think I am.

Now let's say that you still wanted a 12 year loan, but instead put down 10k of your own money and financed 30k, your payoff is as follows:

Loan Amount - $30,000.00

Interest Rate - 5%

Length of Loan - 144 months / 12 years

Monthly Payment - $277.47 / Monthly principal & interest

Total Payoff - $39,955.27

By putting down 10k of your own money, you just saved $3318.42

We're just trying to see if we can help the OP out, not bashing at all.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       09-14-2010, 3:28 PM Reply   
Since the OP states he sold his prostar 190 he had for 7 years I am under the assumption that he has some money towards a down payment.... He also states he doesn't mind making a $300-400 payment and finds that to be way less stressful than spending his next 7 years saving up money....... So regardless of what I, you, the man on the moon etc... would do in this situation lets try to help the OP with his questions about the interest rate. Plus why can't he get a 12 year loan now and refinance in a couple years and save a bunch on the interest???? We bought an axis earlier this summer and depending on what options you are getting for 45k it might be an outstanding deal. Everything I have heard/seen points to the price going up on the 2011s so it might be a much better deal than you can get in a year or seven.

*edit* oh and this post wasn't directed at any particular person just saying.....

Last edited by bruizza; 09-14-2010 at 3:30 PM.
Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       09-14-2010, 4:18 PM Reply   
Axis is loaded, all options on the vandall edition minus the vandall graphics (replaced with their two tone gel coat), minus the weird snap out mat thing (replaced with snap out carpet). I actually don't think I'm going to buy it because my wife isn't comfortable with the amount of $$ we would be spending. Yes, I have 10k down payment. Payments would be < 400 /month which isn't bad. But gotta make the wife happy. We're going to look at another used sanger this weekend so hopefully it will work out. The axis is at Port Angeles Power Equipment in Port Angeles, WA. The owner's name is Jason and he was really cool showing us the boat and answering all our questions. He said he was charging $45,500 for it. It's a really nice boat, I'm disappointed. I was really looking forward to ~2100lbs of stock ballast + the wedge. Ah well.

(EDIT: If someone goes and buys that boat, I'd *love* to get a tow at some point
Old    A.J. West (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       09-14-2010, 4:20 PM Reply   
I financed my boat for 7 years at 6%. I put $23k down on a $41k new boat and I'm making an extra payment every other month. I'm not, I'm sure most of us, are not in a position to pay cash for $40K+ boats so payments it is AND I'm happy with it. All this "save up for XXyrs" is crap. That's years of wishing he had a boat and years of missed fun and/or quality family time. I guess this is another thread about payments, financing, and bashing the average working people who need to make payments.

Last edited by you_da_man; 09-14-2010 at 4:23 PM.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-14-2010, 6:33 PM Reply   
payments are a way to get what you want now. and enjoy it while you pay. i would advise if this is your first boat buy used.it wont depreciate as bad as first year on new boat.if you stay in 2 to 3 year old range you will get better interest rate. interest rate equals exposure more money down and better credit score = lower rate also newer collateral =less risk. good luck and happy boating
Old    Ken W (kenteck)      Join Date: Jan 2005       09-15-2010, 2:11 PM Reply   
Interest… monthly payments… years to pay off… been there don’t that, had a good used boat years ago, me and the wife started to make bank at our jobs, got the credit thing all cleaned up, a year later boat a new 2006 Moomba in 06, at 4% and like 400.00 a month for like 10 years, great no worries, nothing to replace, just more money to add more options, so in a sense, it would be like replacing things on the old boat.
So what happens when someone gets laid off, like the wife did, 1 ˝ ago, well didn’t think of something like that happening, hell where making bank, well it did, had to sell the boat last September or give it back to the bank, some of you might remember it, 06 outback V for 20K, sold in 3 days, it sucked and I was so pissed, but hey, s..t happens.
Now, I bought a used Direct Dive boat with NO payments and I will sell this one and upgrade just a little newer each time. I don’t think I will ever do the bank thing again, no matter what the interest rate is or making payments again, looking at the boat in the winter and making those payments, uggg, it’s just not for me and I learned a lesson here… im sure that some people that make bank per month that can afford it and knows that there job will never expire can afford this, but not me! good luck with your new boat purchase, it sure was fun for a while!
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-16-2010, 8:12 AM Reply   
I'm wondering how many people saying "don't finance a boat, pay cash" have a car payment?
Old    Ken W (kenteck)      Join Date: Jan 2005       09-16-2010, 8:41 AM Reply   
Nu Bu
that would be an interesting thread.........
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-16-2010, 9:09 AM Reply   
Just take an equity line on your house. That way your boat is tax deductible......

Ba-hahahhahahahhahhahhahhah!!

Amazing how these threads have changed in the last 5 years.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-16-2010, 9:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
I'm wondering how many people saying "don't finance a boat, pay cash" have a car payment?
I don't. We drive what we can afford. I have financed 3 cars in the past and, as stated in my previous post, I feel it was a mistake.

Also, I can almost guarantee that my family of 5 has less income than the majority of 30something men on this board. So, I'm not rich, even by Obama standards.

Car vs. boat is different though. Yes, if you have a $50k vehicle and a loan where a $10k vehicle paid for in cash would suffice I'd say that's comparable to doing the same for a boat. In both cases (Boat and high dollar car) you're using debt to pay for a depreciating luxury item. However, if you're in a bad situation and have to make payments (Over a reasonable period) on a $5k car to get you to and from work that's pretty justifiable in my book.
Old    Tommy Boy (twelve02)      Join Date: Aug 2010       09-16-2010, 9:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
I'm wondering how many people saying "don't finance a boat, pay cash" have a car payment?
I paid cash for my boat and do not have car payments either.

Most people Need a car to get to work, take kids to school, run errands etc., in most places people live it's a necessity, a boat is clearly not a necessity, it is an expensive luxury item.

With a car, you can potentially write off mileage, depreciation and use it as a work expense, so it becomes something that can be deducted and potentially save you money.

If you are comparing a boat payment to a car payment then I think you've missed the point.

Unless you are a pro wakeboarder / skiier / surfer, good luck telling your accountant that it's tax deductible.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-16-2010, 9:58 AM Reply   
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ so has the economy and job market. be careful when you ask for change. it might not be what you want.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-16-2010, 10:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by twelve02 View Post
I paid cash for my boat and do not have car payments either.

Most people Need a car to get to work, take kids to school, run errands etc., in most places people live it's a necessity, a boat is clearly not a necessity, it is an expensive luxury item.

With a car, you can potentially write off mileage, depreciation and use it as a work expense, so it becomes something that can be deducted and potentially save you money.

If you are comparing a boat payment to a car payment then I think you've missed the point.

Unless you are a pro wakeboarder / skiier / surfer, good luck telling your accountant that it's tax deductible.

I don't think I missed the point at all. My point is that just because you get a loan for something doesn't mean you can't afford it. What say you about the guy that pays cash for his truck, puts a very sizeable down on his boat and finances it even though he can afford to pay cash for it?
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-16-2010, 10:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
I don't think I missed the point at all. My point is that just because you get a loan for something doesn't mean you can't afford it. What say you about the guy that pays cash for his truck, puts a very sizeable down on his boat and finances it even though he can afford to pay cash for it?
LOL, well, either that guy hates his money or he can't really "afford" to pay cash for it (i.e. it leaves him broke with no cash reserves). That's sorta like saying why pay off a credit card even if you have the cash when Visa will let you carry the balance?

What's the incentive to pay interest on a debt if you have the money? Unless that money is already earmarked for something else (rainy day fund, kids college, retirement, etc), in which case I'd argue you don't "have the money."
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-16-2010, 10:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
LOL, well, either that guy hates his money or he can't really "afford" to pay cash for it (i.e. it leaves him broke with no cash reserves). That's sorta like saying why pay off a credit card even if you have the cash when Visa will let you carry the balance?
What's the incentive to pay interest on a debt if you have the money? Unless that money is already earmarked for something else (rainy day fund, kids college, retirement, etc), in which case I'd argue you don't "have the money."
Not really but whatever.

The incentive is to have access to that money whenever for whatever. Stuff does happen and come up. If you can make most or all of your interest back on your money it's kinda a wash right. People with lots and lots of money finance things all the time, surely you recognize that.

Last edited by 05mobiuslsv; 09-16-2010 at 10:29 AM.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-16-2010, 10:54 AM Reply   
just look at animals any smart squirrel would have a stash of acorns for the winter if it snowed. that way he could survive. he would continue to look for food even though he had some stashed away. continued work for food is like borrowing money when you already have money it's peace of mind in case of the worst. ie long winter or lost job.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-16-2010, 10:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
Not really but whatever.

The incentive is to have access to that money whenever for whatever. Stuff does happen and come up. If you can make most or all of your interest back on your money it's kinda a wash right. People with lots and lots of money finance things all the time, surely you recognize that.
I work with people who have lots and lots of MONEY every day. Most of them finance as little as possible (and are people who most wouldn't perceive as wealthy because they live well within their means). Do they borrow money? Sure, for business, when they can leverage the borrowed money to make money. But not to buy toys.

I also work with broke people every day who have lots and lots of toys, and lots and lots of debt. Usually these folks are perceived to be "wealthy" even though they are living (really big) paycheck to (really big) paycheck.

If we were talking about someone running a wakeboard school who was going to make money by having a new boat, then yeah, it can totally make sense to leverage a down payment with financing to make money and be ahead, even after making the loan payment.

Assume the rate on a new boat loan is 6% (a pretty smokin' rate IMHO). If you can tell me where I can wash that out and make 6% on my money with ZERO risk, I'm all ears. That's really the same argument that financial advisers were peddling five and six years ago -- to refi that cash out of your house (where you're paying 5.75% interest) and take it to the market where you can make 10%. Of course paying down your mortgage has zero risk, while playing the market has plenty of risk.

But our economy depends on people getting in debt up to their eyeballs, so please, please. please go forth and borrow. My retirement account will thank you!
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-16-2010, 11:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
I work with people who have lots and lots of MONEY every day. Most of them finance as little as possible (and are people who most wouldn't perceive as wealthy because they live well within their means). Do they borrow money? Sure, for business, when they can leverage the borrowed money to make money. But not to buy toys.

I also work with broke people every day who have lots and lots of toys, and lots and lots of debt. Usually these folks are perceived to be "wealthy" even though they are living (really big) paycheck to (really big) paycheck.

If we were talking about someone running a wakeboard school who was going to make money by having a new boat, then yeah, it can totally make sense to leverage a down payment with financing to make money and be ahead, even after making the loan payment.

Assume the rate on a new boat loan is 6% (a pretty smokin' rate IMHO). If you can tell me where I can wash that out and make 6% on my money with ZERO risk, I'm all ears. That's really the same argument that financial advisers were peddling five and six years ago -- to refi that cash out of your house (where you're paying 5.75% interest) and take it to the market where you can make 10%. Of course paying down your mortgage has zero risk, while playing the market has plenty of risk.

But our economy depends on people getting in debt up to their eyeballs, so please, please. please go forth and borrow. My retirement account will thank you!
Thanks for the insight, sounds like you have it all figured out for everyone. Carefull with that big paintbrush. I know alot of rich people and broke people as well so guess that makes two of us.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-16-2010, 11:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
Thanks for the insight, sounds like you have it all figured out for everyone. Carefull with that big paintbrush. I know alot of rich people and broke people as well so guess that makes two of us.
Not at all. Maybe you can show us where to wash out the cost of borrowing money with the interest from the money we have in the bank?

This is the best I can find (5 year FDIC insured CDs), granted I didn't search exhaustively:

http://cdrates.bankaholic.com/?produ...4&go_button=Go

If you could reliably make as much money in interest as it cost to borrow money, how would banks make money?
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-16-2010, 11:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Not at all. Maybe you can show us where to wash out the cost of borrowing money with the interest from the money we have in the bank?

This is the best I can find (5 year FDIC insured CDs), granted I didn't search exhaustively:

http://cdrates.bankaholic.com/?produ...4&go_button=Go

If you could reliably make as much money in interest as it cost to borrow money, how would banks make money?
You don't need to worry about me I'll be fine. I don't need to disclose my financial situation to you, hope you're ok with that. Yes my interest rate on my boat is better than the 6% you posted.

By the way do you finance anything or are you one of those rich people you speak of, because if you do finance you must be one of those paycheck to paycheck guys right?

Last edited by 05mobiuslsv; 09-16-2010 at 11:30 AM.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-16-2010, 11:34 AM Reply   
i bet he financed his house. even rich people do that.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-16-2010, 11:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
You don't need to worry about me I'll be fine. I don't need to disclose my financial situation to you, hope you're ok with that.

By the way do you finance anything or are you one of those rich people you speak of, because if you do finance you must be one of those paycheck to paycheck guys right?
No worries, and don't take my posts as attacking you personally, even if I disagree with your advice. And srsly, if you know where to earn 6% risk free, I'm all ears!

Yes, I've got a mortgage on my house, though I'm working as hard as possible to get that beotch paid off too. Other stuff, owned. Credit cards, paid in full every month (easier than carrying around a grip of cash at all times). The Mrs and I have been together since long before we were making decent money and we've always tried to save up for something before we buy it rather than buy on credit. We've just never liked owing anybody.

Did have financed vehicles a 5-8 years ago, and after getting them paid off we've been good about continuing to make the payments every month, but to ourselves, for the new car fund.

I've been choking on paying an extra $500-700/mo in fuel costs to tow/run the boat in the summer. Gotta do better about budgeting for that through the winter this year.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-16-2010, 11:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
No worries, and don't take my posts as attacking you personally, even if I disagree with your advice. And srsly, if you know where to earn 6% risk free, I'm all ears!

Yes, I've got a mortgage on my house, though I'm working as hard as possible to get that beotch paid off too. Other stuff, owned. Credit cards, paid in full every month (easier than carrying around a grip of cash at all times). The Mrs and I have been together since long before we were making decent money and we've always tried to save up for something before we buy it rather than buy on credit. We've just never liked owing anybody.

Did have financed vehicles a 5-8 years ago, and after getting them paid off we've been good about continuing to make the payments every month, but to ourselves, for the new car fund.

I've been choking on paying an extra $500-700/mo in fuel costs to tow/run the boat in the summer. Gotta do better about budgeting for that through the winter this year.
I never gave any advice, I asked a question. I agree with most of what you said as well, I live a debt free lifestyle like you with the exception of the topic at hand.
Old    Joe Mc D (jmcdanie)      Join Date: Oct 2009       09-16-2010, 11:54 AM Reply   
For the OP, I am not sure you can find a much better rate than what you have quoted without modifying the loan to pay more money down or get a shorter loan period, but good luck.

I also want to weigh in on the other discussions about purchasing a boat with cash vs getting a loan. I had the option to pay cash for my boat, but with the economy the way it is and nobody ever knowing what the future holds, I decided it was better to pay for half the boat with cash, and finance the other half for 5 years. This allows me to keep money in the bank for a rainy day. If I paid cash and then fell on hard times, I may not have enough money saved up to cover my mortgage and other bills for a long enough period to find another means of income. WIth the loan, I do have money in savings that can get me 8-12 months without income while still paying all my bills (mortgage, food, electric, boat) on time. I understand the loan is costing me money, but so does insurance. I look at the loan I took out as a type of insurance.

Others may look at it differently and certainly this is a different situation than others may be in, but for some people to say do not buy it if you cannot pay cash without knowing a persons financial background is crazy....

Last edited by jmcdanie; 09-16-2010 at 12:04 PM.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-16-2010, 11:56 AM Reply   
Is this where I put in my economic status and practices? Just asking cuz I couldn't find it in my profile.

50% or better of the "I have no payments other than my house" HELOC'd those other items when times were good. Probably not the fiscally responsable guys in this thread but soooo many did.

I rarely have people pay cash for cars over 10k but I frequently get very well to do people financing large purchases.

To my mind if you are able to invest and save then you are living within your means.

Saberworks, I love how you have stayed on topic so well but I say stay with Sanger
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-16-2010, 12:07 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
Is this where I put in my economic status and practices? Just asking cuz I couldn't find it in my profile.

50% or better of the "I have no payments other than my house" HELOC'd those other items when times were good. Probably not the fiscally responsable guys in this thread but soooo many did.

I rarely have people pay cash for cars over 10k but I frequently get very well to do people financing large purchases.

To my mind if you are able to invest and save then you are living within your means.

Saberworks, I love how you have stayed on topic so well but I say stay with Sanger
Apparently huh...

Thanks for chiming in I know that you can offer an actual Real World example of what's really going on out there since you deal with this type of situation daily.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-16-2010, 8:38 PM Reply   
I have a question for the "no payment" crowd... all you "holier than thou" financial geniuses.

Why did you respond to this thread? Better yet, why did you even open it? The title is "boat loan rates." Since you guys have never borrowed money in your lives, how does this topic even concern you? And don't tell me you are trying to help the OP... who do you think you are... his dad? his accountant? his wife? Suze Orman???

The truth is you are not here to help the OP at all. You are here to "lift yourselves up" on the internet and make yourselves look better than others. It's so obvious.

I have news for you... WE DON'T CARE and WE ARE NOT IMPRESSED. Everybody chooses to live their lives and manager their money in different ways. If this were a personal finance forum, this debate would be welcome and interesting. But this is a boat thread on a boat forum. You have completely hijacked this poor guy's thread. If you don't have input on interest rates or loan programs, again I ask you, why did you click on the "reply" button???


Old    ausbill32            09-17-2010, 9:13 AM Reply   
Some of you might scold me for this response but I borrowed 30k from my retirement 401k to buy my used 2007 Moomba LSV boat however, I did so with a few things in mind:

1. Automatic withdrawl from my paychecks
2. I got 7.5% interest rate which is close to the regular market rate. The nice thing about having this type of loan is that I'm paying interest back to myself and not a bank.
3. Loan is 5 years (has the market really increased that much in 5 years?... not really). I do realize that if there was a huge upswing that I would miss out on possible dividends but the security of all the reasons I listed here, I chose to borrow money from myself.
4. If I did loose my job, I could write the entire loan off as early income withdrawl and take the tax hit now plus 10% penalty. Yeah 10% (3K) early withdrawl penatly might be high but not as much loss as giving the boat back to the bank on a repo after maybe paying on it for a couple of years.
5. It's also a very good feeling to know that if I did loose my job, I wouldn't have a loan due.
6. The title is in my pretty little hands and not the banks so I could sell the boat at anytime for any price if need be.
7. Another great reason I choose to do this is that I'm not subject to any particular type of boat or trying to get prequalifed for a loan. It's open market to me.

IMHO, the best bang for the buck is to buy a used boat in the 20-30k range because chances are you'll be able to sell it in that same range if need be.

Last edited by ausbill32; 09-17-2010 at 9:23 AM. Reason: updated
Old    Ed (elc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-17-2010, 11:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ausbill32 View Post
Some of you might scold me for this response but I borrowed 30k from my retirement 401k to buy my used 2007 Moomba LSV boat however, I did so with a few things in mind:

1. Automatic withdrawl from my paychecks
2. I got 7.5% interest rate which is close to the regular market rate. The nice thing about having this type of loan is that I'm paying interest back to myself and not a bank.
3. Loan is 5 years (has the market really increased that much in 5 years?... not really). I do realize that if there was a huge upswing that I would miss out on possible dividends but the security of all the reasons I listed here, I chose to borrow money from myself.
4. If I did loose my job, I could write the entire loan off as early income withdrawl and take the tax hit now plus 10% penalty. Yeah 10% (3K) early withdrawl penatly might be high but not as much loss as giving the boat back to the bank on a repo after maybe paying on it for a couple of years.
5. It's also a very good feeling to know that if I did loose my job, I wouldn't have a loan due.
6. The title is in my pretty little hands and not the banks so I could sell the boat at anytime for any price if need be.
7. Another great reason I choose to do this is that I'm not subject to any particular type of boat or trying to get prequalifed for a loan. It's open market to me.

IMHO, the best bang for the buck is to buy a used boat in the 20-30k range because chances are you'll be able to sell it in that same range if need be.
Thanks for adding this perspective Bill. I am sure someone will hammer on you for the unorthodox response but its good to see something different.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-17-2010, 1:21 PM Reply   
I've been in the marine Industry since 92....started right in the tail end of a recession, had some level years, and watched (as well as profited) all the HELOC guys use their tract houses like free ATM's.....and am surviving best I can as the industry got knocked flat on it's backside a couple years ago.

What baffles me is how every time this subject comes up, all the financial experts chime in. I'm not smart enough to present an argument either way, but one thing every glosses over is this: It is patently silly to try to financially justify buying a ski boat no matter how you choose to pay for it. It is guaranteed to depreciate if it's less than 6-8 years old, and the cost of ownership is kinda high compared to other powered vehicles.

But what price tag do you put on your leisure time? Isn't the time with friends and family worth quite a lot? Hell, take a family of four to see a movie once a week, and have a decent meal out. You'll drop 100-150 a week easily. 400-600 a month...hey, thats a boat payment on a pretty nice boat.

It's the way of the internet...no matter how you do ANYTHING, some one is going to tell you how to do it better, or differently.

OP....find a nice boat you like, use the resources available to you here for intelligent input on the boat you are looking at, and buy it. Assuming the purchase does not place a financial stress on you and your family, you will soon begin making deposits in the Bank Of Good Times with Friends and Family.
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       09-17-2010, 1:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post
I've been in the marine Industry since 92....started right in the tail end of a recession, had some level years, and watched (as well as profited) all the HELOC guys use their tract houses like free ATM's.....and am surviving best I can as the industry got knocked flat on it's backside a couple years ago.

What baffles me is how every time this subject comes up, all the financial experts chime in. I'm not smart enough to present an argument either way, but one thing every glosses over is this: It is patently silly to try to financially justify buying a ski boat no matter how you choose to pay for it. It is guaranteed to depreciate if it's less than 6-8 years old, and the cost of ownership is kinda high compared to other powered vehicles.

But what price tag do you put on your leisure time? Isn't the time with friends and family worth quite a lot? Hell, take a family of four to see a movie once a week, and have a decent meal out. You'll drop 100-150 a week easily. 400-600 a month...hey, thats a boat payment on a pretty nice boat.

It's the way of the internet...no matter how you do ANYTHING, some one is going to tell you how to do it better, or differently.

OP....find a nice boat you like, use the resources available to you here for intelligent input on the boat you are looking at, and buy it. Assuming the purchase does not place a financial stress on you and your family, you will soon begin making deposits in the Bank Of Good Times with Friends and Family.
Hell yeah man.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       09-17-2010, 2:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post

What baffles me is how every time this subject comes up, all the financial experts chime in. I'm not smart enough to present an argument either way, but one thing every glosses over is this: It is patently silly to try to financially justify buying a ski boat no matter how you choose to pay for it. It is guaranteed to depreciate if it's less than 6-8 years old, and the cost of ownership is kinda high compared to other powered vehicles.

But what price tag do you put on your leisure time? Isn't the time with friends and family worth quite a lot? Hell, take a family of four to see a movie once a week, and have a decent meal out. You'll drop 100-150 a week easily. 400-600 a month...hey, thats a boat payment on a pretty nice boat.

It's the way of the internet...no matter how you do ANYTHING, some one is going to tell you how to do it better, or differently.

OP....find a nice boat you like, use the resources available to you here for intelligent input on the boat you are looking at, and buy it. Assuming the purchase does not place a financial stress on you and your family, you will soon begin making deposits in the Bank Of Good Times with Friends and Family.
This post brought a tear to my eye. Thank you for articulating what I could not.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-17-2010, 2:35 PM Reply   
So I have to admit to using that last little bit of my previous post to close more than a few boat sales, back when I was on the sales side...However, it is, at it's core, true.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-17-2010, 2:57 PM Reply   
Oh yeah that last half was ABC material for sure
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       09-17-2010, 5:35 PM Reply   
I agree with everyone that most of these guys should have kept their ideas to themselves. I know someone that owns a very successful company, personal net worth over $100 million and he LEASES his cars. Does it make sense, probably not, but he is most likely going to retire in a much better situation that any of our "financial gurus" in this thread. It's hilarious how many posts get knocked off track by someone that has all the answers on this site. Luckily there are still those out there with some decent information.

I hope you guys enjoy eating all that inflation on those boats while you save up your money, because I can guarantee boat prices are skyrocketing a lot faster than your income, since most of you probably thought financing college was a bad idea as well.

Also, Mr. Financial genius, you should be thanking these "idiots" financing everything so that you can have your home loan for a decent rate. Do you really think the bank could offer you 4.5% on your home loan if they weren't getting 10-12% from those that decide to finance items like boats for the long term.

Point of the rant is this. Pay attention to your own finances and thank those that are willing to take out a payment so that they can finance the industry so that your used boat is actually worth all that time you took to save the money to buy it.
Old    Dave (sordave)      Join Date: May 2002       09-17-2010, 5:43 PM Reply   
I have not read through all these posts so maybe it has been addressed, but 12 years on a boat is insane. $300-400 a month payments until 2022? Most likely you will want a new boat in 6 years to "live now" and you will be $15K upside down.
Old    John M Hall (skyski1)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-17-2010, 6:11 PM Reply   
Here is the bottom line............every situation is different. Everyone has their own comfort zone when it comes to cash reserves vs. monthly payments. There is no 'one size fits all' solution. In effect, everyone who has responded is right, but only as the question pertains to their own situation and personal value system. I realize the OP was only asking about interest rates, but there has been plenty of info offered up that I am certain the OP will find helpful. Well done.
Old     (saberworks)      Join Date: Sep 2010       09-20-2010, 7:56 AM Reply   
Thanks all for the posts. Just for the record I found a decent deal on a 2004 sanger v210 and ended up getting it instead of the new axis. It was about half the price but of course I now need to add more ballast and a perfect pass, but no big deal.
Old    Scott (scotthons)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-20-2010, 8:17 AM Reply   
Congrats on the purchase!
Old    Nick Heckerson (kstateskier)      Join Date: May 2002       09-20-2010, 10:28 AM Reply   
Congrats, should be a great boat.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-20-2010, 12:21 PM Reply   
I see you took my advice J/K Congrats on the boat! Now get that thing winterized.
Old    Bwake (bwake)      Join Date: Sep 2009       09-21-2010, 12:58 AM Reply   
Good work on buying the Sanger. I was just about to write something along the lines of buy a V210 (boat that i have) ballast it down and id imagine you will struggle to ever outgrow it.

Im a Banker and quietly laugh at all these people who finance things. They are typically they people who at age 50 own next to nothing and are looking for their next item to finance. Buy what you can afford would be my suggestion. Only finance things like a house or something that will return more than the finance rate.
Old    Paul Weintz (paulw)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-21-2010, 6:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
I see you took my advice J/K Congrats on the boat! Now get that thing winterized.
No way go ride it for a bit before you put it away. The winter will eat you alive not having done some boarding. Its going to be 84 deg in Norther IL today.....

Congrads on the new boat you got to be pumped.
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-21-2010, 9:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwake View Post
Good work on buying the Sanger. I was just about to write something along the lines of buy a V210 (boat that i have) ballast it down and id imagine you will struggle to ever outgrow it.

Im a Banker and quietly laugh at all these people who finance things. They are typically they people who at age 50 own next to nothing and are looking for their next item to finance. Buy what you can afford would be my suggestion. Only finance things like a house or something that will return more than the finance rate.
Clearly you aren't a banker with the Bank of Good Times with Friends and Family.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-21-2010, 11:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwake View Post
Good work on buying the Sanger. I was just about to write something along the lines of buy a V210 (boat that i have) ballast it down and id imagine you will struggle to ever outgrow it.

Im a Banker and quietly laugh at all these people who finance things. They are typically they people who at age 50 own next to nothing and are looking for their next item to finance. Buy what you can afford would be my suggestion. Only finance things like a house or something that will return more than the finance rate.
You should work on that "quietly" piece more, you don't have it down quite yet. While you do that I'll quietly think to myself what a toolbag you must be.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-21-2010, 12:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Im a Banker and quietly laugh at all these people who finance things. They are typically they people who at age 50 own next to nothing and are looking for their next item to finance. Buy what you can afford would be my suggestion. Only finance things like a house or something that will return more than the finance rate.
Thats a good idea to discourage people from using your largest (by far) financial product. That way your bank will stop making money and you won't have a job.
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-21-2010, 12:28 PM Reply   
A banker that "laughs at people who finance things"???

That would be like me calling myself a "Marine Shop owner who laughs at people who have their boats fixed"....

People that finance things pretty much drive your industry, Mr. "Banker".

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