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Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-15-2010, 10:36 AM Reply   
Hey Guys-

I swear I'm not a rookie ... restored a '92 Sanger DXII over the past 5 years. I'm trying to get comfortable with my '04 Sanger V215 and I swear every time I look at something, I want my DD back.

Now for what's going to seem like the most stupid question of all time, but I swear I can't figure it out for certain ...

Where the hell is my oil filter and also my oil drain? I've even looked at the manuals online and can't seem to locate it for certain on my motor. I want to change the oil and if this thing doesn't have one, install a fumoto quick drain valve.

Let the bashing begin :

Thanks for any help ya'll can give
Old    Todd (antoddio)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-15-2010, 10:40 AM Reply   
Oil filter is under the engine...not easy to get to. I've never seen my either. My mechanic complains about changing it.
Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-15-2010, 10:46 AM Reply   
I just realized I better post just in case ...

It's the 5.7L Black Scorpion 330HP motor.

Thx
Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-15-2010, 10:50 AM Reply   
Thx Todd ... back into that cramped little space i go, this time with a mirror. I'm starting to wonder about remote oil filters and drains.

I'm so flippin' confused with what's where on this motor. Seems like there's a Fuel/Water separator where I expect it to be same end of the engine as the belt and just above the water pump), but there's some filter on the aft end of the motor (forward in the boat on the drivers side) that I can't figure out what it would be. Unless that's the size of a EFI fuel filter???

Thx again
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-15-2010, 11:08 AM Reply   
Usually fuel injected boats don't have fuel/water separators. I'm sure there are exceptions and yours may be one.
Old    Brian Deegan (irishrider92)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-15-2010, 11:10 AM Reply   
No idea what a sanger is so only going from personal experience on my vlx.

Think of the hardest part of your engine to get to and the filters probably there. For the drain we have a hose-typed tube that we put through the bung hole that clips on near the top of the engine, though you can get a tool that acts similar to a bike pump and sucks all the oil out from the dip-stick hole.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-15-2010, 11:12 AM Reply   
Also, fuel injected boats usually don't have an inline fuel filter but rather a large filter on the pickup in the tank. They're not typically a regular scheduled maintenance item that you'd replace every XXX number of hours either. You generally replace them if you're replacing a fuel pump or if you're experiencing problems due to contaminated fuel.

I know nothing specific about Sangers or MerCruiser though so keep that in mind.
Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-15-2010, 11:16 AM Reply   
Okay ... I'm learning a bit more ...

It looks like I have a remote oil filter that is located on the rear left side of the motor (forward and drivers side of the boat). Although, I'm still not absolutely certain about this as I can't find any references to this in any literature.

There's another filter like deal on the forward right side of the motor (rear of the boat on the observers side) above the water pump housing. And in that same area there's what looks to be some type of an inline filter too.

Is it normal for the oil pan drain plug to be on the very bottom of the oil pan (I'm used to it being on one end or the other angled toward the bottom)? And is it normal for these motors/boats to not have that long hose from the oil pan to stick out of the drain hole and drain oil outside the boat?

Looks like I need to take some pictures and learn how to post pictures so I can be more accurate in my descriptions so you guys can help. I've never felt so out of touch with my abilities on a motor and boat.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       09-15-2010, 11:16 AM Reply   
Save your back, elbows and knuckels....get an extractor pump.
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-15-2010, 11:17 AM Reply   
The filter on the drivers side near the front(back of engine) is the oil filter. The filter on the pass side near the back(front of engine) is the fuel water seperator.

I would look into a remote oil filter for sure. I installed 1 on my last boat because it was such a pain to get to.

As far as draining goes, you probably have to suck the oil out the dipstick like the rest of us.
Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-15-2010, 12:11 PM Reply   
So here's a picture of what I think might be the remote oil filter based on Joe's post above, along with a few that show the orientation and what's connected to it ...
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Also, here's a picture of the other filter(s) on the front of the motor, above the water pump, that I'm wondering about ...
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Can anyone help me with what the black filter in the photo above is, as well as what the silver canister labeled SAE J1171 is?

Thx again
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-15-2010, 12:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mach90 View Post
And is it normal for these motors/boats to not have that long hose from the oil pan to stick out of the drain hole and drain oil outside the boat?
Once again not sure about Sanger/MerCruiser but the PCM and Indmar's I've dealt with have a hose that you poke out through the drain hole into a contailer to drain the oil. It's a slow process though. It can take 30 minutes or more to drain all of the oil through the hose by gravity alone.

If you get a top side pump every few oil changes I would pump out as much as possible with the pump then get a small container to drain into and actually pull the plug in the pan to get any residual sludge from the bottom that might build up if you always suck it from the top.

Also, for the oil filter get a gallon sized zip lock bag. Once you break the filter loose put the bag over the filter and continue to back it off until the filter starts to spew oil. Let it drain into the bag and once it stops back it off the rest of the way and seal it up. This will minimize any spillage into the bilge.
Old    Todd (antoddio)      Join Date: Dec 2006       09-15-2010, 12:16 PM Reply   
Damn, that's def a remote oil filter...wish I had one of those! Also the black is a fuel filter or separator...I imagine it's the filter.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-15-2010, 12:16 PM Reply   
The silver cartridge looks like a fuel pump and the black filter must be a fuel filter.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       09-15-2010, 12:18 PM Reply   
It's hard to tell how that remote filter is oriented. It looks like it's horizontal. If so that seems like it would make an awful mess when removing it. I'd research the possibility of turning it over.
Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-15-2010, 12:27 PM Reply   
Sorry about the orientation of the photos ... The white filter which I'm about to verify is the remote oil filter (by the mess I'll make when I crack it) is mounted UPSIDE down. The second photo is from the floor of the boat shot up toward the sky. The first photo is shot looking straight at it from the side (top is up, bottom is down, etc) along the back seat. You can see my flame arrestor just beyond and above it, if that helps with the orientation.

Now for the next question. Since it looks like I have a remote oil filter, is anyone using this access point as a way to pump the oil out of the drain pan? Or should I stick with coming up the dipstick hole?
Old    Meathead (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       09-15-2010, 12:30 PM Reply   
The white filter is the remote oil filter. The black filter is the fuel/water separator filter. The silver horizontal canister is the fuel pump.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       09-15-2010, 12:35 PM Reply   
The fuel filter is a disposable inline water fuel separator/filter and is just under the fuel pump. It's the black one in your lower photos.
The oil filter is the one on the block. It's a remote filter adapter.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       09-15-2010, 12:37 PM Reply   
See, there I go with my slow typing again. I've got to get people to quit trying to talk to me about work while I'm here.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       09-15-2010, 12:38 PM Reply   
Oh, and you could always get a D215 and trade in that silly v-drive. (No bias on my part)
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       09-15-2010, 12:40 PM Reply   
On a Mercruiser, they recommend that you suck the oil out through the dipstick tube.
Old    Derek (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       09-15-2010, 12:44 PM Reply   
Havent read all of the posts yet, so sorry if this is redundant:

I have same boat, same engine, just 06. My oil filter is on driver side WAY DOWN LOW. It is mounted directly to the block, not remote in any way (like pics above). It is Very hard to get to. I installed a remote oil filter that is now just behind the rear compartement panel on the drivers side - very easy to change now. I also tried to install a hose to the oil drain plug and couldnt get it to work. Very frustrating experience! I use a Pela oil extraction pump, which works fine.

Hope this helps
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-15-2010, 12:58 PM Reply   
that's definitly a remote oil filter. I have the same one on my Epic. Before you take it off, Take a punch and put a hole in the filter. This will let and trapped oil drain right out. Have a rag, and a zip lock bag handy and take it off. It really is easy.

There's no better spot to suck oil then the dip stick tube.
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-15-2010, 1:08 PM Reply   
punch a vent hole in the bottom of the filter(top, because its upside down).
Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-15-2010, 8:21 PM Reply   
Cool ... thanks guys for all the help. Ended up not being able to tackle the project today, but am planning on doing it all on my next day off. Has anyone had a problem running the fuel tank low / close to empty (I know some of the MasterCraft boats and Chevy trucks have issues with pumps failing when the tank is run low due to lack of lubrication and excessive heat issues)?

@ Art - Do these boats have in-tank fuel pumps in addition to the one on top of the fuel/water separator? Other than the obvious sucking the nasty off the bottom of the tank, is there a problem running the fuel tank close to empty (MasterCraft pumps burn up / fail when the tanks are run too low problem)?

@ Derek - why didn't the hose install work out? Not enough room? Wrong angles? Any chance you remember the size, thread, etc of the drain plug? Obviously pretty much everyone is saying go the dipstick tube method, so I'll probably end up doing that, but I sure would like to get either 1) a drain hose onto the oil pan or 2) a fumoto quick drain valve installed.

@ Joe - when you punch the hole in the filter is the oil draining back down into the oil pan through the tubes so that there is minimal oil in the filter when you spin it off? Or are you punching and draining (sucking) the filter oil out of the punched hole?

It's amazing that these guys assemble these boats and mount the motors without setting us up for success from the get-go.

Last edited by mach90; 09-15-2010 at 8:31 PM. Reason: add txt
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       09-15-2010, 11:25 PM Reply   
From experience, , when they suck the tank right dry and stall out you need more than a 2.5 gallon fuel can to get them to start again. My wife was blasting full speed with the kids and it started to cut out. Being close to home she slowed some but kept going to let me look at what was going on. They are not great as canoes by the way, but better than my old I/O.
When surfing you can run the pickup dry if you don't pay attention. Just count on the gauge being inaccurate. The tank is a long box so there is no low spot to get the last of the fuel.
My pump is still working at over 300 hours and it's sucked dry three times in total. Once completely, that was hard to restart, and two no big deals while surfing. (Well, the rider thought it was)

There will still be some oil in the filter after you punch a hole in it. A remote filter would be great from the factory and would be worth an extra $100 bucks on the price, but Mercruiser are the ones that guarantee the engine and I assume Sanger, or others, don't want to take on the liability of changing anything.
Old    Joe Sellhausen (joesell)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-16-2010, 5:36 AM Reply   
If you punch a vent hole, the filter drains back into the oil pan through the hose's. It might drain back w/o the vent, but I wouldn't want to find out the hard way. FYI, The filter has a double bottom. So punch a hole, then push the punch in about 1/2" and punch another one. You'll be able to see that the oil drained out.

I would still have a ziplock ready to go.

Spin the new one on, and that's it.
Old    Derek (camassanger)      Join Date: Oct 2009       09-16-2010, 8:19 AM Reply   
You can buy a kit for the hose install for oil drain. Cant remember where I bought it, somewhere on the web. Do a search and you should find it no problem. oil drain plug is a std thread so you can buy the whole kit right off the shelf. I wanted to do this because I felt it was the best way to drain the oil and will make life easier in the future. But, it didnt work out.

If you've put youre fingers on the drain plug, you quickly realize there is about 1.25" of clearance between the pan and the hull - VERY tight. And getting to the plug requires amateur contortionist skills. However, i was able to get in there with some serious struggling. The problem I had was twisting on the new plug with the hose attached (it would be near impossible to install the hose after installing the plug).

I was determined to get this done, but after not getting it to work, I decided the vacuum pump would be just fine :-) My advice to anyone interested in trying this would be to go enjoy 3 hours with your wife and kids and forget about it! I now use a vacuum pump and honestly, it works just fine.
Old    dtc (mach90)      Join Date: Jun 2009       09-16-2010, 9:47 AM Reply   
I can't say it enough .... thanks to everyone for your help, suggestions, experience, wisdom, et cetera. That's what makes this board so valuable.

I actually just finished reinstalling my ballast hoses etc .... Thanks to Dave Kiehl for the suggestion of binding lube and a heat gun. Worked awesome.

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