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Old    vision (bobenglish)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-02-2010, 12:25 PM Reply   
Looking to change boats. I have owned several MCs and enjoy the high quality fit and finish. Have an 08 X-star which has been great. But, we pull a large range of riders in terms of skill. The X-star has a wide wake and even with no ballast, and requires more speed to clean up the wake. I am looking for a boat with a narrower wake, and a cleaner wake at a wider range of speeds and ballast, yet still capable of a big wake. I know, such a boat may not exist.

I have not yet had an opportunity to ride in a Supra but several folks have suggested that I look at the 24 SSV.

Can anyone who has spent time in both an MC and a recent Supra give me feedback on how you feel the boats compare? The Supra drivetrain is identical to MCs. So I am interested more in fit and finish, how good is the vinyl, how well does their ballast system work, and how hard is it to get a clean wake at various speeds and weights.

NOT looking to flame any boat manufacturer. I have been in Nautiques, MCs, Malibus, Epic, and Centurions, but never a Supra. Thanks.
Old    Richard (nauty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       09-02-2010, 1:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobenglish View Post
I am looking for a boat with a narrower wake, and a cleaner wake at a wider range of speeds and ballast, yet still capable of a big wake. I know, such a boat may not exist.
.
In that case you want a Malibu

I own a 2004 Supra and have some friends who own newer models (2008-2009). The fit and finish has come a long ways since 2004 that's for sure. The newer Supras are pretty plush on the inside and the wakes are huge.

However, if I were in the market for a new boat I think I would be leaning towards a Malibu. Don't get me wrong, I still love my Supra, but the wakes behind the Malibus seem so easy to manipulate without getting washed out. Often in my Supra, as well as some newer models, the wakes tend to wash if a passenger moves from one side of the boat to another. This doesn't seem to be the case with Malibu.

The power wedge in the Malibus are awesome. You can adjust the wake from mellow to huge with the touch of a button. If you have kids like I do that is a nice feature to have if you want to tone down the wake for beginners without having to dump a bunch of ballast.

The bottom line is that the gap in fit and finish between the top 5 inboard manufacturers has really narrowed over the last few years. CC and MC are still probably the most plush when it comes to fit and finish, but not by much. Certainly not by enough to warrant a huge difference in price from a Malibu or Supra.
Old    sp0tts (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-02-2010, 1:20 PM Reply   
I owned an 04 Supra and was happy with the quality then, having been in the new 22' Worlds edition, I can tell you it's a beautiful boat and I think the quality is right up there with the big 3, all comes down to what your needs are. That being said, I wouldn't consider the wakes to be that narrow. If you're looking for a narrow wake I'd look MB or Nautique, even the 230 Super Air has a narrower wake than the shorter Malibu's and MC's.
Old    vision (bobenglish)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-02-2010, 1:22 PM Reply   
Thanks. That is helpful.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-02-2010, 1:26 PM Reply   
The build quality is definitely up there and the price tag is much easier to swallow. I have not seen it yet, but heard the new 24SSV for 2011 has a narrower wake. I would say typically that Supra wakes are wider and steeper than most, but heard the new 24SSV is not as wide. Looking forward to checking it out and giving my own review.
I have owned several supras and have never had any major issues. Had a few simple warranty issues over the years, but my latest one has not experienced a single little thing and we are 70 hours into it.
Good luck and let me know if you have any specific questions...
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       09-02-2010, 1:28 PM Reply   
I agree with Richard. A VLX or 23 LSV would be great choices. They are extremely plush inside. With the 4 ballast tanks and power wedge you can go from one of the best stock ballast wakes to a beginner mellow/clean wake. Add plumbed in sacks to the rear and you have a solid surf setup with all plumbed in ballast as well.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-02-2010, 5:03 PM Reply   
I have an '08 22 Supra w/1900 lbs ballast, I really like the wake and wakeplate to fine tune it, but it is weight sensitive. I have personally driven and been towed behind an '07 MC X-15 and this was the same case, also weight sensitive. Have also been towed by a 23 LSV Malibu '09, and this was also the case being weight sensitive with movement of passengers. I have yet to drive in a boat where you can place anyone, anywhere and it will not affect the wake. Especially when you have a larger group of passengers on board.

I would recommend as Diggs mentioned checking out the new Supra 242 for 2011, this boat has been getting a lot of great reviews from people who are riding in and behind it. I have 229 hours on my '08 Supra, vinyl looks brand new, no major issues, did have a few little items that were handled by the dealer under warranty. I would not hesitate one bit to buy another one, I am waiting for the 22 SSV to get a hull/major change before I go ahead and c onsider an upgrade. I definitely feel Supra (skiers choice) builds a nice, high quality boat that delivers great performance and comfort for passengers with a reasonable price range.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-02-2010, 6:05 PM Reply   
i've ridden in and behind both supra worlds edition with ballast san team edition and mastercraft xstar and x2. all three wakes are different the san was the narrowest,the supra was the steepest and the mastercraft suited my style the best . that being said i've also ridden in and behind many malibu's tige's and mb all of which have wakes i like.what i'm most used to is my tige the closest wake to it is the malibu.but if your riders are wake to wake riders the supra,mb and san all are better suited to this. the mastercraft wake is wide but you don't notice it because to me it boots you the best. you don't have to work hard to clear it. but the same is true for the supra,mb and san. on these three you don't need as long of a approach as the mastercraft but on the mastercraft you get better pop[more air time].i guess what i'm saying is you should try them all and see what you and your crew like best. quality wise they are all very nice. you have to decide which ones you like best because you might not like the same things i do.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-03-2010, 12:17 AM Reply   
I've got an 07 24SSV Gravity Games that I've complained about the fit and finish and overall build quality for the last 2 years. Not happy with it at all. The stock ballast on the boat is junk, mine hasn't worked right from the start. There's a lot more people on the Supra forums coming out and complaining too. I've even heard of swim platform brackets breaking and the platforms coming off the boat while in the water. Every boat and boat manufacturer has it's flaws, I can just tell about the Supra because that's what I own.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       09-03-2010, 7:17 AM Reply   
Vision,
For what it is worth Supra went to a new ballast system in 09' that uses flawless reversible pumps and fast. Jonyb has the old ballast system that used sprinkler valves and many complained about, but I never had issues with that, except for priming them which is simple.
Old    Scott (scotthons)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-03-2010, 8:13 AM Reply   
I have an '06 21V with 2400 lbs of ballast and have not had any issues. I am never in a huge rush to get them filled. Usually by the time we get to our riding spot we are good to go.

I had a '98 Malibu Sportster (direct drive) before the Supra so obviously I am much happier with the Supra wake. The only issue I had was vapor locking, but replacing the fuel filter has seemed to taken care of that problem.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-03-2010, 11:28 AM Reply   
Yes, I have the old ballast system. The ballast system is not the only issue that the boat has though. Fit and finish was also another problem that I mentioned. Maybe they've changed their build quality since then. All I'm saying is, if you're looking at older boats, or at least not new boats, those were the issues to look for.
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       09-03-2010, 3:37 PM Reply   
I think the most versatile wake out there is behind the new SANs. They stay clean through a range of speeds and weights and load it up and it is macking. High quality all around - well I wouldn't give the vinyl five stars, but everything else is top notch. I like Supra too and not sure SANs beat them dollar for dollar, but if money were no object SANs are tough to beat. Disclosure - I have never owned anything made by Nautique, just lucky enough to have a good friend who does.
Old    vision (bobenglish)      Join Date: Mar 2008       09-03-2010, 5:40 PM Reply   
All these comments are quite helpful!

I need to ride behind these boats during the next few months and decide which direction to go.

Thanks again.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-03-2010, 5:40 PM Reply   
Did want to disclose in my '08 22, I had many problems with the ballast fill system, I did replumb it and go with Tsunami 800's and got rid if the sprinkler valve setup. It works great now, but I did have to spend $400 to do this. The '09 and new Supras went to Impeller driven pumps and are a MUCH better setup. Also the new VISION system will allow you to fill bags at desired % which is a great upgrade.

Just stay '09 and newer and you wont have any problems.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-03-2010, 8:10 PM Reply   
I can agree with Travis on the 09's, but it's like any other boat, it's too new to tell how long its gonna last. Let's just say I know what to look for when buying a boat now, and it's a lot more than added features and what the wake looks like. I wanna make sure it's not gonna fall apart after a couple weekends on the lake.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-04-2010, 2:08 PM Reply   
John, the JABSCO's have been around for a few years, I know Mastercraft uses them, the only problem with them is the impeller will eventually fail on them and need to be replaced. I hear its a pretty easy swap out if the pumps are easily accessible.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-04-2010, 2:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotthons View Post
The only issue I had was vapor locking, but replacing the fuel filter has seemed to taken care of that problem.
In '08 Indmar added a second fuel pump to eliminate this problem, have never had one vapor lock problem on my '08, even in 113 degree weather for a week. I think the 2010's have now gone to the in fuel pump in the tank.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-04-2010, 5:45 PM Reply   
I've owned Supra's for the last 10 years so I think I can speak pretty well about this. The quality of the new boats is head and shoulders above the boats of 5 and 10 years ago. I think they have the best quality vinyl of any boat. Power train is bullet proof, ballast is bullet proof (2009 and up), towers are great, etc. That said, they are 98% of the way to the top quality boats. I've had little fit and finish issues that are easily fixed (things like trim coming loose, carpet pealing off the top side of a storage locker, 12 volt outlets not wired properly, etc.). Little things like that are fixed very easily but should not happen in a 75k boat (IMO). That said, there is not a perfect boat. Little things are always going to happen. Would I buy another, yes. Will I look at a Malibu when I buy my next boat, yes. If I had no little issues, I would not even look at another brand of boat but I'm not 100% sold yet (even though I keep buying them). I looked at all the top brands when I purchased my latest Supra but still ended up back at Supra.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-04-2010, 7:12 PM Reply   
tre supra and malibu are two totally different wakes.you would have to be pretty upset to change.that being said all the new top model boats are a little different thats why it's important to test drive and ride behind them all in good and bad conditions.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-05-2010, 12:00 AM Reply   
Travis, I know, I have a friend with a Mastercraft. The swap out is easy and his work every time. I was going to rip out all the ballast in mine last Spring but since I had surgery coming up I thought I'd wait.
Old    Bryon (ladbg)      Join Date: Mar 2010       09-08-2010, 7:06 PM Reply   
I did the same ballast upgrade as Travis on my 06 24ssv, added two 800's to fill the rear sacks and use the factory rule 2000 on the front. A simple and cheap fix.
Old    William (kana12)      Join Date: Jan 2008       09-08-2010, 9:24 PM Reply   
I have ridden behind a couple supras and the wake is very narrow and pretty steep. I personally didnt like the fit and finish much but they are good boats or they would be out of business. I would personally look into Tige. The wake is still wide but cleans at very low speeds and also the Taps system is great for people that are all at different skill levels. The ballast is flawless and fills super fast and the wake can be very mellow or super rampy. the supra is gonna have a pretty big kick when you hit the wake. I think that they make a pretty nice boat if it fits your taste but remember you are comming from a MC. The fit and finish wont even compare. That being said i would demo the boats you have never ridden behind.....supra, sanger, tige, etc. see the wakes for your self and how the handle on the water.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-09-2010, 7:06 AM Reply   
He asked about Sura. A Tige owner telling him to get a Tige is not really what he was asking about. Also, how can you say the Supra wake is narrow? There are many different models with different wake widths. The 21V has a middle of the pack width wake and the 24V has a wider wake.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-09-2010, 9:02 AM Reply   
I own an '05 Supra Launch 24SSV and love it, regularly rode behind an '05 Supra Launch 21V, '05 Mastercraft X-Star, '07 Mastercraft X-7, and an '06 Malibu VLX up to owning this boat. I love the layout, I love the playpen, I've never had an issue with the sprinkler valve ballast system, and I think it's one of the best looking boats out there. The 2011 version of the 24SSV is the Launch 242, the 24SSV is gone, and I think it's one of the best looking large wake boats on the market, but I've not rode behind it yet. I was never a fan of the X-Star wake for the same reason you are getting rid of yours, the wake is just really wide, and I don't like all the transition in the wake, the Supra has more abruptness to the wake. No real complaints about the VLX, the X-7 wasn't a wake specific boat so it's not a fair comparison, and the Supra 21v that I mentioned was the boat I rode behind most frequently, and I loved it.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-09-2010, 11:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by kana12 View Post
I think that they make a pretty nice boat if it fits your taste but remember you are comming from a MC. The fit and finish wont even compare..
I have to disagree with you here, have been in an '07 MC X-15, was not sold on the fit and finish for a 90k boat. The MC Towers are not solid, they wobble, and need stabilizer brackets in the corner to avoid bending. I was told this by the owner of the '07, because I asked about the brackets in the corner. I do however really like the MC swivel board racks.

Grab a supra rad-a-cage tower and its solid, and vinyl on the newer Supras is Nano-tech, which is extremely durable and stain and fade resistent. My '08 vinyl looks as good as it did the day I took it off the showroom floor after 235 hours of use.

I would not say going from a MC to a Supra is a downgrade at all, especially on the newer boats.

Also on the Tige' TAPS, is that just a wakeplate/trim adjustment that Supra has on it? or does it offer something more? just curious....

Last edited by fman; 09-09-2010 at 11:53 AM.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-09-2010, 12:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fman View Post
I have to disagree with you here, have been in an '07 MC X-15, was not sold on the fit and finish for a 90k boat. The MC Towers are not solid, they wobble, and need stabilizer brackets in the corner to avoid bending. I was told this by the owner of the '07, because I asked about the brackets in the corner. I do however really like the MC swivel board racks.

Grab a supra rad-a-cage tower and its solid, and vinyl on the newer Supras is Nano-tech, which is extremely durable and stain and fade resistent. My '08 vinyl looks as good as it did the day I took it off the showroom floor after 235 hours of use.

I would not say going from a MC to a Supra is a downgrade at all, especially on the newer boats.

Also on the Tige' TAPS, is that just a wakeplate/trim adjustment that Supra has on it? or does it offer something more? just curious....
travis the tige has a convex hull. so it naturally settles the rear in the water ,making a taller and steeper wake than conventional hull. the plate either lets it settle on #8 or raises it up on plane on #1 that is were it rides the smoothest and makes an acceptable slalom wake. the tige wake is closest in shape to the malibu,the width is also similar. to me the supra and san are similar and the mastercraft even though it's wide has the most boot.tige patented the convex hull and taps other manufactures have their own devices which to me don't work as well as weight.

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