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Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 9:16 PM Reply   
If I get to Cal, we will definitely look you guys up! The son might be sooner to Cal than the parents!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 9:18 PM Reply   
I have a suggestion on where to put the 8 ball....

Sorry, with a lead in like that, what's a guy to do?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 9:20 PM Reply   
@rockrig, I have several programmers working for me, and I hire guys from Chico State CS program all the time. We are virtual, all work at home. So when he gets some skill, have him look me up. Or if he wants to know about what to focus on, etc, pursuing it.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 9:20 PM Reply   
Peter, I am an asker of inane questions. And I am dramatic.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 9:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
I have a suggestion on where to put the 8 ball....
Just behind the driver's seat to help the goofy side wake because you heard about a guy who saw a picture on Wakeworld of a horribly stepped wake on a Tige and this guy claimed that asking the 8 ball a question and then stashing it behind the seat cleaned up the wake?

Sounds plausible, given the post history.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 9:21 PM Reply   
@ragboy, I will ask him to send you a PM. Thanks.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 9:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrig View Post
Peter, I am an asker of inane questions. And I am dramatic.
Yes, that's readily apparent.

It still doesn't explain why a "devote[sic] lurker" would have to ask that question.

Maybe you aren't as "devote" as you imagine yourself to be.
Old     (theanswerman)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-12-2010, 9:25 PM Reply   
Justsomeguy or is it somepeteguy did they let you back on the forums?
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 9:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by theanswerman View Post
Justsomeguy or is it somepeteguy did they let you back on the forums?
Ok, whose sockpuppet are you?

My guess is surfdad.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 9:29 PM Reply   
My lurking didn't help me with your three weeks of membership. I am almost always less devote than I declare.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 9:44 PM Reply   
One more thing to clarify on the video, the reason I included 3 of the regular, the 1st clip with James, shouldn't be compared to anything it was a different lens and mounting position, so gives the wake a different look for comparison. But, that lens and camera give the best look of the entire wake. So then you get to clips 2 and 3, this is the SAME wake, literally. Same day, same setup, same people in boat, same everything. The only difference is the camera and position from Clip 1. However, clips 4 and 5 are with the same camera and position on other side, only I think the goofy side was pointed slightly up higher. Hard to make the same in bright sun on a LCD.

A = clip 1
B = clips 2 and 3
C = clips 4 and 5

So, if A=B, and you can visually compare B and C and see they are virtually the same, then A also = C.

Just saying that so that you don't try to compare A to C, not apples to apples due to lens and camera.
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-13-2010, 6:40 AM Reply   
so if Is there a way to know if an enzo is right surf set up?
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-13-2010, 6:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarFanatic5 View Post
so if Is there a way to know if an enzo is right surf set up?
To confirm for sure, call Fineline with the Hull number and they can give you a build sheet.

Also, dont be afraid to buy a regular surf boat for the right price. From my understanding, you can have a mechanic change it to a Right surf boat for around $2k (I think all you need is a new transmission and prop) if that is really what you want to do at the end of the day.
Old    Brandon Key (bkey79)      Join Date: May 2010       08-13-2010, 7:11 AM Reply   
So you have Ragboy whos runs/associated with Wake9.com and you have a couple guys on here that are associated with wakeoutlaws.com . I've wakeboarded and surfed with the guys from wakeoutlaws, and while blunt, they are some of the best, most honest people I know! And I've known a couple of these guys for over 3 years, back when they were rocking Malibu's. I wouldn't buy a board, or wakesurf accessory from anyone else!

As far as brand loyalty, I went from Malibu to an older Super Air, and surfing it now. Does it suck for a surfer? Yes, but its better than my old direct drive Bu!

To whomever is looking for a new boat, TEST DRIVE TEST DRIVE TEST DRIVE! Find what you can afford! Look at the total prices of both, see if you can live with the differences for a $xxx price! $10k might not be alot to some of you, but $10k for MINOR differences is ridiculous! Unless you are sponsored (cough cough) by any brand, they should all be open for you to at least test drive! You'll know when you drive it what boat is best. And when you do, be happy with your purchase and post up pics!
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-13-2010, 9:12 AM Reply   
Geez Fatboy, I mean Ragboy - What is your problem on here??? I just read some of these post and each one you are putting your foot in your mouth and not realizing the truth. You are just going on hearsay and not facts. First of all you do not surf, so why are you even commenting? We all get it that you have a Tige and they cut you a huge deal to promote them and that you are associated with Wake9. BFD! Sorry that you cannot get a Tige that has a different rotation. Centurion has it to cater more to the die hard surfers. What is YOUR problem with that? Are you jealous? Do you have penis envy because you are not as smart on Enzo's, Avalance's, Epic's, etc on how to set up a wake for goofy riders? I looked at all the pics and the pics the Centurion guys posted up, the wake looks good on both sides. I do not know why you cannot accept that Centurion can customize the wake for the rider and Tige cannot. Stop hating on real people that SURF and have there wake set up either it being goofy or regular. Go back to your fast food dinner and think about it before you post another stupid thread on how Enzo's do not produce a great goofy wake.

On a side not, I do...wait did think the Tige were great looking boats. But you have deter me ever wanting one now. You remind me of Don Long from Wakecraft you tool.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-13-2010, 11:28 AM Reply   
WOW David, thats really quite personal and rough. Defend your postition in an argument but don't personally attack the man. Seems out of character.

You guys keep saying that he just keeps pumping Tige but he's also been quick to espouse the virtue of other boats that make great waves. He's said that he has certain criteria for a boat and that the Enzo doesn't meet that. He also said my boat doesn't meet that but you don't see me jumping down his throat. He likes Tige thats why he bought it, you like Centurion thats why you bought an Enzo, Avalanche, etc. There is a reason why the topic of a problematic wave on the goofy side of Enzos has come up time and again. There is veracity to the claims. Can you get a decent surfable wave on the darkside of an Enzo? Yes, but you have to put a lot of weight/work into it and or get the RightSurf option. If I'm wrong then how come at worlds the guys defending this boat couldn't get a good wave out of it?

Guys just so you know somepeteguy has had several names here on WW including justsomeguy, uber tuber, sporkinator and Hank Reardon. Who knows there may be more. He usually gets to about 10-15 posts, all of which are designed to incite argument and discorse. DNFTT!!!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-13-2010, 11:53 AM Reply   
@bkey, I agree with that, test drive and get what you want, works for me.

@columbiansurfer. I always love the personal attack in an argument, its the last grasp of desperation, it means you've won, doesn't bother me. The reason I continued, is because there is still this notion that you have to have a reverse rotation boat to get a good opposite side wake. I am literally BLOWN away that people still believe that. Tige doesn't offer reverse rotation, and neither does sanger or supreme, others, why? Cuz they don't need it, their boats make the same great wake on both sides, like mine does, with the same weight.

@hatepain Don't get me wrong, I love sangers, and several of my closer wakesurf friends, like the wolters and dennis horton have them. I just don't like how they sit so low in the water when you wait them, thats it, my only real issue with the wakesurfing on those boats. (The V237 resolves this issue for me). But we have surfed behind the 230, the 215 several times, and once on a 210. The 215 and 230 especially made great wakes. But thanks for understanding that this fatboy's preference doesn't mean I don't like your boat.

One more thing, I am NOT associated, or affiliated with wake9.com.

I AM wake9.com. My family is wake9.com. We are trying to push the sport forward, and also to show people and law enforcement orgs that it is safe and a great family activity. My wakesurf boat criteria is based on what I think most FAMILIES would want. Great on both sides, safe weighted, automated, etc.

Take the Walker family, Jeff (surfdad), James, Judy. They all surf regular, and their son is one of the best wake surfers in the world. If he loved the enzo wake, it would make sense for him to get one, they all ride regular. If they loved that wake, I don't think they do, but if they did, that makes sense. Many of you guys are probably in the same place. Love to wakesurf, love the enzo wake, surf one side mostly or always, and thats what you want. Perfect.

But don't try to tell me I can't have a great wake on both sides, I can, and I bring lots of evidence when I state the things that I do. Also, don't tell new people/families looking for boats that the enzo makes the best wake, and leave it at that. This is an expensive purchase. Do them, yourself, and Centurion a favor and mention that the wake on the opposite side is not as good, and requires more work. Now, if you want to say "The Enzo wake is so damn good that on the regular side its like driving a Ferrari and other boats are like VW Bugs, and the goofy side isn't as good, but its still like a Porsche 911 compared to other boats." Fine, thats your opinion, I don't care.

This has been a hell of a thread and for some reason I got a bug up my keester to see it through, not just bow out when the tools showed up. Their closed minded blindness was interesting to say the least. I am sure some are genuine tools, but a few smell like traffic whores, pretty interesting. I think duramat took the cake on this one when he included racial slurs like "ragheads" and "frog eating frenchie". I mean, thats just funny how pathetic that is.

Well, from my perspective, I have seen this thread through. I have posted LOTS of video and images to support my position. I know the tools will keep going, but I have guests in my house, and they want to go wakesurfing.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-13-2010, 12:18 PM Reply   
Ragboy i think you should stop. You cant try and make nice, and then call everyone tools at the end of your post.... your representing wake9.com and i think your making more enemies than friends at this point.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-13-2010, 12:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolio View Post
He usually gets to about 10-15 posts, all of which are designed to incite argument
That is a lie. Either that, or you are simply too stupid to understand how to use the search function. If you need help figuring out the search function, just let me know and I'll lend you a hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toolio View Post
and discorse[sic]
Anyone posting on this board, by definition, is fostering discourse. You might want to check definitions before you try using "big words."

Speaking of "inciting argument," hypocrite, you might want to revisit some of your posts, like this one:

"There's some funny pictures on here...be real people and take a decent shot from the back seat, not all this trick photography crap. Plenty of legit ones here too but loads of crap. "
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-13-2010, 12:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
@hatepain Don't get me wrong, I love sangers, and several of my closer wakesurf friends, like the wolters and dennis horton have them. I just don't like how they sit so low in the water when you wait them, thats it, my only real issue with the wakesurfing on those boats. (The V237 resolves this issue for me). But we have surfed behind the 230, the 215 several times, and once on a 210. The 215 and 230 especially made great wakes. But thanks for understanding that this fatboy's preference doesn't mean I don't like your boat.
Totally how I interpretted it. I looked at your criteria, one of which was the boat couldn't list passed the rub rail, which mine does.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-13-2010, 12:30 PM Reply   
Dnftt
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-13-2010, 1:27 PM Reply   
for the record, tools = the 2 or 3 guys that engaged in personal attack, and traffic whoring, not those that disagreed. As an example, JKW disagreed, but I appreciated his opinion and comments, not a tool in my book. Arguing an issue respectfully is not a bad thing, and I appreciate good arguments.
Old    Peter Uehlin (peter19u)      Join Date: Oct 2006       08-13-2010, 1:41 PM Reply   
When do you think vendors like Malibu or Tige will come out with a ballast setup similar to the "pure vert system"? I have ADD and waiting 16 minutes to fill ballasts and another 16 minutes to empty them is way too long. Also, dealing with all those pumps can be a pain. I wanna be able to flip a switch and go. I won't buy another boat until these vendors come up with something besides sacks.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-13-2010, 1:43 PM Reply   
Discourse without discord well to much discord anyway.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-13-2010, 2:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter19u View Post
When do you think vendors like Malibu or Tige will come out with a ballast setup similar to the "pure vert system"? I have ADD and waiting 16 minutes to fill ballasts and another 16 minutes to empty them is way too long. Also, dealing with all those pumps can be a pain. I wanna be able to flip a switch and go. I won't buy another boat until these vendors come up with something besides sacks.
MB Sports has just such a system:

http://mbsports.net/accessory_view.a...essory=ballast
Old    Brandon Key (bkey79)      Join Date: May 2010       08-13-2010, 2:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by _somepeteguy View Post
What if you wanted to dump ballast in the lake say for wake surfing? Do you have to pull the boat out of the water to dump ballast?
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-13-2010, 2:32 PM Reply   
@Peter - there are a few boats that have the pure vert system. Centurion Enzo, Epic and MB. Flip a switch on the Enzo and it fills while you are heading to your fav spot. When done, flip the switch again and head home and it is drained. There are some video's out there as to how fast it can fill and empty.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-13-2010, 2:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkey79 View Post
What if you wanted to dump ballast in the lake say for wake surfing? Do you have to pull the boat out of the water to dump ballast?
You just drive forward and the tanks gravity drain. They just did that to show how quickly they drain.

I wouldn't want to pull onto a trailer with an extra 2500# of weight. My buddy did that with his MC with only 800# and one of his old leaf springs snapped.
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-13-2010, 2:33 PM Reply   
"personal attack" whatever you refer to me as "ignorant" because I don't agree with the "propaganda" you are spreading about Centurion ENZO's, again since you have NO true experience IN or BEHIND an ENZO do us all a favor and just STOP misinforming people.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-13-2010, 2:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by colombiansurfer View Post
@Peter - there are a few boats that have the pure vert system. Centurion Enzo, Epic and MB. Flip a switch on the Enzo and it fills while you are heading to your fav spot. When done, flip the switch again and head home and it is drained. There are some video's out there as to how fast it can fill and empty.
To be fair, Epic/MB entire ballast system is Pure Vert. The 2011 Enzo will be a compo of Pure Vert and Hard Tanks (1,000lbs of pure vert and 1,000lbs of hard tanks). I wish the entire Enzo ballast was pure vert.
Old    Peter Uehlin (peter19u)      Join Date: Oct 2006       08-13-2010, 2:47 PM Reply   
I'd like to stick with Malibu. I wish they would implement such a system
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-13-2010, 2:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
As an example, JKW disagreed, but I appreciated his opinion and comments, not a tool in my book. Arguing an issue respectfully is not a bad thing, and I appreciate good arguments.
Now that I am not a tool, I will be able to sleep better at night.

Also, everybody needs to pay attention to "arguing and issue respectively." If i did not know any better, I would think most of the guys posting on this thread are 18 year old wakeboarders.

@ragboy: I think most of the Enzo guys are just tired of every time a "what boat should I buy" thread comes up you list Tige, Sanger, Avy, etc and have to add a comment about how bad the Enzo goofy wave when you really have very little experience with one. If you go back to the 1st 2 pgs of this thread (before it got out of hand), people shared with you current goofy side set ups and pics (people with actual experience). The only time you started to come around was after you saw the goofy wave at NW tournament. Then you basically said it was a "good" wave (your own video evidence shows it is much better than a good wave) and complained about having to run 1,000lbs more weight. Reality is that boat was set up for a tournament. So you would not have to run 1,000lbs more (probably 500lbs more which is what I told you on pg 1 or 2). Like I said before, you do a lot of great things for wakesurfing. But you basically ignored what guys with actual experience said on this post until the NW Tournament. The other thing is that I dont think any of the post from Enzo guys on the 1st 2pgs even told him to buy an Enzo. But rather told him not to dismiss it out of hand because of your input. Most people are not going to choose a boat just because of the wave. They are going to choose it for a ton of other reasons (most of which you list) and how good the dealer is.

I will stick with this: I hope that we can all provide the good and bad of the boats we own (or have actual experience with) and point out things we dont like (based on experience) in a civil way. Choosing between any of these boats with dialed in wave is like trying to figure out which Victoria Secret model is hotter. I hope everybody on this thread goes to the lake and surfs for a while and comes back with a better attitude on Monday.

Last edited by lakesurfer; 08-13-2010 at 3:06 PM.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-13-2010, 3:13 PM Reply   
"I will stick with this: I hope that we can all provide the good and bad of the boats we own (or have actual experience with) and point out things we dont like (based on experience) in a civil way. Choosing between any of these boats with dialed in wave is like trying to figure out which Victoria Secret model is hotter. I hope everybody on this thread goes to the lake and surfs for a while and comes back with a better attitude on Monday."

^^Totally agree^^
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-13-2010, 3:14 PM Reply   
Calabria also offers Pure Vert and if I'm not mistaken were the first wake boat company to do so. Its a great system, certainly something I wish my boat had.
Old     (RedRocket)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-13-2010, 4:32 PM Reply   
You know, even with all of the bickering, I am learning a ton so I don't find the bickering such a bad thing The personal attacks and name calling could be dropped. But, I do understand the passion that is being displayed in this thread so in the end, it becomes valuable.

Certainly one of the most important pieces of information mentioned multiple times, test drive.

carry on
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       08-13-2010, 6:47 PM Reply   
This might hurt.
Correct me if I am wrong. Doesn't the Purevert system flood the hull under the flooring and doesn't that put the majority of weight toward the middle of the boat? If so it would probably work well for wakeboarding and not so well for wakesurfing where weight is needed to the outside of the boat. Anyone know what the shape of the tank is?
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-13-2010, 7:01 PM Reply   
So I was called out about personal attacks.. Well I call it like I see it when the person that I was so called "personally attack" calling others ignorant and such. Dish it out but not take it?? And then come in at the in of his post and call those that threw it back at him a "Tool". Come on people...Open your eyes to see what is really going on here and his agenda. It is CRAP! I can honestly say that I do surf and I can surf both sides of the wake no problem with my boat. I have also personally surfed both sides of an Enzo. And since I DO SURF, I can give an opinion. If you DO NOT SURF for what ever reason, shut the hell up!! Until you ACTUALLY get out there and surf, your opinion is CRAP! That would be like me telling you how to do open heart surgery when I have never done it.

And if you read my other post i this thread, I mention to take a look at the Avalanche if he wants a good wake on both side without the price of an Enzo or Tige. I also mention that Ragboy does have a good looking boat and I am sure it produces a good wake. But from the pic I see, it doesn't compare to the Enzo or Duffy's wake and he has an Avalanche. But to come on here and insinuate say it's the best boat in the world for surfing, and then say the Enzo Wake is basically CRAP. I call BS. when was the last time Tige was the "Official Towboat" for the Worlds? One more, what boat does Inland Surfer use from the makers of surfboards? How about this, what boat is being used by last years world champ, and the year before that? I bet not a Tige.

I will make this offer to Ragboy: Come to GA and get on my boat and we will see just how much wake I actually use to create a huge wake on both sides and we will weigh out everything just to be fair, take pics, video, whatever and then I will go to his lake and do the same. Post them up and let you guys be the judge. I can bet this one thing: I use a lot less weight than he will ever use and my wake will be just as huge or bigger! On both sides! Oh BTW, I do not have a Right Surf rotation. And Brendan if you want to come and judge for yourself, please be my guest.

@Hate - I thought the Calabria had the pure vert system also, but was not sure since I could not find it.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-13-2010, 7:34 PM Reply   
@Dennis - Here is a link to the Pure Vert site- http://www.mikemurphyentinc.com/purevert.html - I think that you could put tanks and gates at various places on the boat.

Not as good as weight out at the edge, but alot easier to do. I think that jkw (lakesurfer) puts weight out on the swim platform and secures it to the boat, I think that that might be ideal. We are going out tomorrow morning and will try it.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-13-2010, 7:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrig View Post
I think that jkw (lakesurfer) puts weight out on the swim platform and secures it to the boat, I think that that might be ideal. We are going out tomorrow morning and will try it.
I know a few guys with Avy's that swear that weight on the swim deck adds a lot of push (see Duffy's wave). I have been trying it out the last few weeks with mixed success (I just need to dial back the weight I am throwing on the surf side seat). Stanely Wheelhouse also runs some weight on his Bu swim deck with success as well.

Let me know how it works for you.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-13-2010, 7:53 PM Reply   
Will do!
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-13-2010, 8:14 PM Reply   
Right now we run with a 250lb stock ballast on surf side, 400lb sac in the locker and usually four or five people at the corner with one or two (of the four) on the sundeck or hanging on the edge.

I empty the 400lb sac to accommodate the weight of the passengers on the boat. I have three sons, so we usually get alot of people on the boat.

I don't use weight on the bow, I adjust the trim tab to bring the bow up or down to clean the wake. My pictures are on a different computer, so I will post as soon as I can.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-14-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
@ David, My buddy had an 02 Calabria with PureVert.

It seems to me that everyone agrees the Avalanche/Typhoon makes a good wave on both sides. I have surfed a 07? Typhoon on the goofy side and thought it was great.

Oh and FWIW, James Walker rides behind a Tige and he is the best surf style surfer in the world.
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-14-2010, 6:55 PM Reply   
@Hate - He might ride behind one now, but before it was an Centurion.

And yes, the Avy and Typhoon makes a great wake on both sides. I have a buddy that sold his Malibu after having it for only 2 years to get an Avy because he could not get his goofy side to work.

Calabria - was it the first one to have that system or MB? When I first read about it, I knew it was going to be good.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-15-2010, 8:16 AM Reply   
Actually, the Walkers have had a Tige as long as I have been around. Its an 05 I believe.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-15-2010, 10:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverrunner View Post
..... I don't agree with the "propaganda" you are spreading about Centurion ENZO's, again since you have NO true experience IN or BEHIND an ENZO do us all a favor and just STOP misinforming people.
I agree with most of this statement. Except for the IN part. I'm sure that ragboy has been in an Enzo many times.

I don't think BEHIND counts unless you are surfing ropeless, being able to feel the push and figuring out how far back you can recover....ect.

Otherwise you may as well be tubing.....
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 9:35 AM Reply   
We need to get rid of all these nasty threads. Most boats can throw great surf waves with enough time and effort dialing them in. Or just add more weight. My avalanches wave looks bigger and longer then the Ragboys Rz2 but it's a picture and pictures can be deceiving. I also run a little over 2150 on surf side plus people. My rub rail is under water and the wave is amazing. The swim deck sac is a must on my boat. It helps so much. The tricky part is getting the rope exactly the correct length so that it doesn't fall off and still helps with list. We ride around 11.2-12 via gps.
Attached Images
     
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-16-2010, 10:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarFanatic5 View Post
anyone ridden a enzo that has the goofy set up in it, meaning the reverse rotation prop?
Lots of vids here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/drdirt
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-16-2010, 11:20 AM Reply   
avys have nice wakes!!!
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-16-2010, 11:22 AM Reply   
Looks beautiful Duff!
Old    Mike V (vman)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-16-2010, 12:00 PM Reply   
I agree with Duff......Sometimes you just have to love the one your with.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-16-2010, 1:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
Looks beautiful Duff!
Agreed! Duffy does have one of the best wakes in captivity.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 1:16 PM Reply   
Its a good looking wave, and looks good on both sides. Nice looking water also. How much weight are you putting on your swim deck? Do you do that on both sides?
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-16-2010, 1:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
Its a good looking wave, and looks good on both sides. Nice looking water also. How much weight are you putting on your swim deck? Do you do that on both sides?
Ragboy: I think Duffy is running around 250lbs on swim deck and runs that way whether he is riding regular or goofy.

I have been trying this out the last few weeks with a Fly High brick (155lbs). I am starting to get it dialed in and it is great. Over the weekend, I ran 1200lb Avy sac, 250lbs center tank, 400lbs on surf seat (only had myself and 1 buddy) and 155lbs on swim deck. By adding the weight on the swim deck, I basically get the same wave/push as if I had another 400lbs on the back seat.

I really want you to try this on your RZ2 and tell me what you think.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-16-2010, 1:39 PM Reply   
This is our regular side wave from the this weekend. I was not able to put weight out on the swimdeck, so this is 250 in stock ballast, taps set at 3, and 1,200 in passenger weight with two (about 500lbs sitting on the swim platform and the side of the boat. The rubrail was about three inches out of the water.

The boarder is 6'2" and 200lbs. He has not learned how to surf without the rope, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Attached Images
  
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 1:46 PM Reply   
Yep. I have a 155 fat brick with 100 lbs of lead bb's in it. So roughly 240-250. Since water is neutral I can still move the sac easily. My swim deck is under water when loaded for surfing. I move it to the edge of the surf side of the swim deck. Works perfect. Also the lead shot keeps the sac from moving around. Best of both worlds. I don't drain it, I just leave it full all the time. My boat is in a marina. If I drained it all the time I would use steel shot or something little more green.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 1:52 PM Reply   
Another good goofy picture showing the length.

I run for weight

Transom Sac 250#

Avy Sac 1400-1500 roughly

Center Tank 250

Bow side sac on surf side under the seat. Basically it's a 255# sac plumbed on switches under each seat. I just fill surf side. It helps with list and also helps with pocket length.

Plus I have 2-100 lb lead bricks in my cockpit area that are covered in carpet. I move them surf side.

So on a safe side guess around 2300-2350 in total weight.
Attached Images
 
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 1:55 PM Reply   
So exactly what do you think it is accomplishing, with and without the weight on deck? If I test, I wan't to know what to look for.

@rockrig, you are running a 24Ve, right? If so, that rubrail should be kissing the water. You sound like you have enough weight, just maybe not placed so well? but I do know on our Ve, the rubrail kissing was the right list to make a good wake with no double lip.

Here are some recent pictures from the 24Ve, and we took out gunz from this forum to test out a new board from lakewakes, so there are pictures of both sides of the wake.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wake9/s...54591665/show/
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 1:57 PM Reply   
A couple more.
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Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 1:59 PM Reply   
Basically by putting weight on the swim deck you are adding weight to the back corner, which is the most important area to add weight for height. I don't allow anyone on my boat to not be seated while in motion. The cops on my lake give tickets out for that. So we used to have someone hit on the back corner for added height and push. My sac is to mimic that exact weight.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 2:10 PM Reply   
I understand the back corner issue, was just curious as to the exact effect you saw by adding that weight, versus not having it. I am hosting 2 more families this week, but may give it a shot. At the same time, my goat is to have a completely automated system, so I may try but probably would not continue to do, but who knows.

We have that problem on our lake also, but only on the weekend, we are lucky enough to ride during the week, and avoid that. Either way, I don't have anybody sitting in the corner, except for maybe if jessica is learning. But sometimes have someone laying on the deck with a camera or something. PoPo doesn't like that on the weekend.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 2:14 PM Reply   
My system is auto other then moving the sac which takes 3 seconds. Just grab the handle and slide
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       08-16-2010, 2:21 PM Reply   
That won't help with the RZ2.
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-16-2010, 2:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennish View Post
That won't help with the RZ2.
Why?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 2:27 PM Reply   
@dennis Yeah, my thought on the RZ2 is that it already sinks down well when you put taps up, due to non-planing hull. That is my thought anyway.

@duffy, thats very cool. And not saying my system would be better, fully automated, just a goal I have.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 2:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakesurfer View Post
Why?
There is no hook in the hull at the back of the RZ2, I think you may need that extra weight on the deck, to help overcome and sink it in, I don't think the RZ2 would need that, or would it help, but I could be wrong, and not opposed to trying it when I have time, I have several fat bricks lying around.

Dennis may have a different reason.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 2:31 PM Reply   
Of coarse it would help the rz2. Weight= wave. If your boat is leaning enough already for a clean wave, then you could put the sac on the swim deck and counter weight the boat and make the wave even better. My buddy has a tige 22v and the transom sac is a must on his boat. Gives the wave tons more push.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       08-16-2010, 2:37 PM Reply   
The RZ2 really needs more weight up front then it currently has. When we loaded the boat for the maiden voyage Photoshoot we had to run taps all the way down to push the bow down. More weight on the swim deck would only compound that problem. If we add weight to the bow then we can use taps to allow the boat to sink farther. We say this on the goofy side with less weight and me riding. We dropped the back of the boat 2 -3 " with a small adjustment to taps.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 2:38 PM Reply   
Like I said, I will give it a try.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-16-2010, 2:41 PM Reply   
@Ragboy - What is the new board called? How well did it work? So we will work on getting the rubrail on the water, we are close now.

@Duffy - I have been nervous about passengers on the deck and sitting on the boat edge, we see it alot in Oklahoma and have not had any problems with the water police. I think in Nebraska it may be a different story. We don't see alot of other surfers on the water here.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 2:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennish View Post
The RZ2 really needs more weight up front then it currently has. When we loaded the boat for the maiden voyage Photoshoot we had to run taps all the way down to push the bow down. More weight on the swim deck would only compound that problem. If we add weight to the bow then we can use taps to allow the boat to sink farther. We say this on the goofy side with less weight and me riding. We dropped the back of the boat 2 -3 " with a small adjustment to taps.
We run a full bow sac roughly 650 pounds in the Tige 22v and a 1500 pounds sac surf side in the locker, then 200# of lead bricks in the cockpit area under the seat on surf side, then the 155 on the swim deck. Great big wave on both sides. He has taps all the way up.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 2:47 PM Reply   
The Lakewakes 5.2, its a good all around board, and especially for bigger guys. Not as great a performer as the bazooka, but also lower price. Here was the thread

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=781135
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 2:49 PM Reply   
@duffy, so how much weight, do you really think you are getting in that surf sac? I have a huge custom sac (2 of them) in my 24Ve, they would hold about 1400 lbs full, but I think I maybe get 1000 on goofy and 1100 in regular when I fill in the boat.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 2:55 PM Reply   
The 22v has the biggest lockers. He is getting custom ones next year Right now he fills a 1100 pounder full and then a 450 pound on top of it I would guess half, then a 250 just in front of that under the seats which is full. So 1500 was a low guess. So basically a ghetto enzo sac. Custom sac for his boat last time I measured it was roughly 1800 pounds. The 22v has the biggest lockers I have ever seen. The Ve doesn't have near the same size. I haven't measured the Rz2 lockers yet. We are actually planning on moving his batteries to make more room for a custom sac.

Here is a sweet bow sac for a tige. With this you would just fill surf side and hopefully you could have taps all the way up.

http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-p...m-bag-005.html
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 2:58 PM Reply   
@duffy, thanks for the 22v setup, that is very helpful. That is very similar to the weight and location we ran on the break in day. I am sure that 22v hull is extremely similar to mine, except for the pickle fork bow. Dennis and I were talking about filling more weight on the front opposite side of surf, I don't have a horseshoe sac in front, but 2 sides, 400lb in each. I am trying to get to a place, where it is all water, and all automated, again, just my personal goal.

How far over the rubrail is the water line on that 22v setup?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 3:01 PM Reply   
Gotit, the 24Ve has smaller area under seat, definitely. I am working on a custom sac for the RZ2 to take up max space.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-16-2010, 3:04 PM Reply   
On my avalanche my dual bow sacs fill and drain via there own switches. Works great. The 24ve has much smaller v-drive lockers then the 2003- ? 22v or 24v. I measured them years ago at a dealer.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 3:07 PM Reply   
yes, and under seat is smaller than RZ2, is what I meant to say.
Old    Chris Kinsey (Chris_JR)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-16-2010, 3:32 PM Reply   
One thing to remember when putting weight on the swim deck is that there is about a 2:1 ratio between weight on the deck and weight in the boat. Our experience with weighting the swim deck is that 150 on the deck is equal to 300 in the boat. Our theory is that you are using the basic principles of leverage. When weighting the swim deck you are placing weight farther back than possible inside the boat. Some folks (not us but some of our friends) have boats that will not allow the same custom sacs on the goofy side as they do on the regular side. This can be compensated for by using the weight on the swim deck. Also, we find that the wave has more push when weight is on the swim deck. I don't know why, but it does.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-16-2010, 3:44 PM Reply   
Yes, agreed. That is one of the reasons when I did the swim deck on the ve, I went with 3/4" aluminum. I figured the weight would do good back there, not hurt anything. But I was worried that stainless steel or something real heavy could cause other problems.
Old    Ricardo (gunz)      Join Date: Sep 2001       08-16-2010, 4:09 PM Reply   
Oh mang

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