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Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-10-2010, 3:19 PM Reply   
what about the typhoon?
Old    David (colombiansurfer)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-10-2010, 3:32 PM Reply   
I personally do not know much about them. Go to CenturionCrew.com and ask a few others over there. They will know and some might have had that boat and can tell you all the good and bad.
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-10-2010, 3:35 PM Reply   
I heard it was the same hull as the avy, but longer.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-10-2010, 3:49 PM Reply   
i will give you my scoop. i had a malibu vlx(same as the vride now) i loved it, but the wake was small and my buddies and i are all over 200. i tested an rz2, avy, enzo, a few mc's(waste of time for surfing) and another bu lsv 23. they all have good qualities, but i bought a enzo 23. i have 2 enzo sacs. we have anywehre from 2 to 8 peeps at any time. we get a great goofy wake and a steller port wake. my goofy wake is so strong, i will say it does not have the lip like the port, but it kills everything i have been on with push. I am no pro, but i only run the enzo sac and my trim tab. our group has 3 guys goofy and about 8 reg. we switch up all the time and never have a problem. i even ride back side goofy just to let them get more time on the wave. I think this thread is over the top. i like the room in the enzo, i like the fact that it is not sensitve to people in the boat. i like the wake for boarding. i like the way it rides and handles. it has alot of great features. i really liked the rz2 as well but i felt the push for the enzo was way stronger. i put a 1579 prop on it. it is an 09. i am in pittsburgh, you can come here and ride all day long if you like. i think you will be happy will all the boats the sanger/tige/skisup/cent/ etc look past all the bs and think about the entire purchase. i was going to get another bu. my malibu was great to me. but we surf sooo much it did not make sense. good luck
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       08-10-2010, 3:51 PM Reply   
@Brendan: i responded, but here you go

@Brendan: the typhoon is the same hull as an Avy just 23ft instead of 22ft. Both are 100in wide. They quit making it in 2009 because most people that went with 23ft boat bought the Enzo. It has a great wave on both sides and you can pick one up at a good price (most time they are actually cheaper than an Avy)
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-10-2010, 3:53 PM Reply   
oh, heres the other kicker, i am 6'4 240 i ride a is swallow p5 oogle and have a pile of junk boards. i can ride/rip all day long either side no rope no bs with just a driver and an enzo sac. no bags on the seats no extra weight. in wv you only need a driver and a miror. so i understand that the wave is important, but the push from the wave is what really makes a fun day surfing
Old     (RedRocket)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-10-2010, 8:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/boa/1890322575.html red if you are in Oregon you should check this one out great buy at a great price
thanks for the heads up. I'm not in the position to purchase right now but I have a buddy who is currently looking. I will bring that ad to his attention.
Old    Matt (duramat)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-12-2010, 9:48 AM Reply   
Tige! Tige! Tige! Tige! LOL THAT'S ALL!

Rag, you have lost all credibility and have not helped your cause nor Tige's. As I stated before, best you keep your comments and opinions about other boat brands/models to yourself and stay away from even chiming in on waves of other brands for the sake of Wake 9 and Tige. You are completely biased and quick to dismiss any credibility to Enzos regardless of prop rotation .

X2 what WakeDoc said

Funny thing is, my wave would look Huge too if I had my kids surfing/posing on my wave too! They could probably surf way farther back too cause they're so small and light.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 11:31 AM Reply   
These aren't kids.

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=782406
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 12:33 PM Reply   
GEEEEEEEZ, we are not talking about another thread we are talking about this thread, I believe the point to Matt's post, which I totally agree with, was in a single thread you have managed to bash the Centurion ENZO goofy wave 27 Times and lost all credibility with him, me and I am sure many others that have read the "propaganda" you are spreading.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 12:47 PM Reply   
My opinion can be summed up here, as stated by jkw

@Ragboy: "it is my opinion. I think the enzo throws a mean regular wake, and a good opposite side but with a significant amount of extra weight. Which may or may not be a problem for various people."

I am good with that. That much better than "@jkw I am sure you are correct that it is POSSIBLE to get a decent opposite wake on the enzo"

The opposite side wake on the enzo is not as good as the other, which you all have agreed with, and it takes significantly more weight to get it to be good. Thats it.

The other thread, was because he said I only post my kids, so that other thread is an example of no kids, except when 260 lb dennis is holding one of mine while surfing.
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 2:23 PM Reply   
I am sure Tige is really impressed with you ability to talk down other brands in a attempt to make their brand look better, the funny thing is, on this thread no one has attacked other brands but you, guess that shows how much integrity you have. While jkw owns an Centurion, he does not own an ENZO, Dennis, myself and several others do and have all told you that you are WRONG, yet you keep repeating the same incorrect information over and over in fact 28 times on this thread alone, that to me shows that you have an agenda and no regard for the truth. Since you have NO true experience in or behind a ENZO do us all a favor and STOP spreading the "propaganda" that Centurion ENZO's can only make wakes on the regular side, when the FACT is a Centurion ENZO's goofy wake is equal to or better than the wakes on both sides of any tige boat and the regular Centurion Enzo wake is superior to the tige wake and cannot be beat. So keep on Hating…HATER!
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 2:52 PM Reply   
Keep on keepin' on hater! I'm not a big fan of the Enzo wake, there are other wakes that I prefer, but that's subjective and I'm sure there are folks that love it. The front of the wake is really rounded and the water close to the boat is seriously slippery - although it does make doing a 3 easier. The goofy wake seems is possible, but that extra 1K of ballast consumes every square inch of the darkside seats. I have a spine injury and can't sit for long periods without back support - as would be necessary when sitting on a fully filled fat sac. I start to hurt after 1/2 hour or so. So for me, that really isn't an option. I'm not sure that you can do it with lead either - well if you surf both sides it would be tough, because what do you do with the extra 1K of lead when you're surfing the "correct" side of the boat? To me the best boat would be one that allows all the weight to be under seats/stowed on either side. Not that my anciet Tige is the best. I also can't say that I was thrilled with the RZ2 (is that the correct designation?!) I rode behind it 4 times and the wake was different each time. It seemed far more weight sensitive than other boats.

HATER! LOL I love it.
Old    Brandon Key (bkey79)      Join Date: May 2010       08-12-2010, 2:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdad View Post
Keep on keepin' on hater! I'm not a big fan of the Enzo wake, there are other wakes that I prefer, but that's subjective and I'm sure there are folks that love it. The front of the wake is really rounded and the water close to the boat is seriously slippery - although it does make doing a 3 easier. The goofy wake seems is possible, but that extra 1K of ballast consumes every square inch of the darkside seats. I have a spine injury and can't sit for long periods without back support - as would be necessary when sitting on a fully filled fat sac. I start to hurt after 1/2 hour or so. So for me, that really isn't an option. I'm not sure that you can do it with lead either - well if you surf both sides it would be tough, because what do you do with the extra 1K of lead when you're surfing the "correct" side of the boat? To me the best boat would be one that allows all the weight to be under seats/stowed on either side. Not that my anciet Tige is the best. I also can't say that I was thrilled with the RZ2 (is that the correct designation?!) I rode behind it 4 times and the wake was different each time. It seemed far more weight sensitive than other boats.

HATER! LOL I love it.

Ding Ding, Round 2!
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-12-2010, 3:00 PM Reply   
anyone ridden a enzo that has the goofy set up in it, meaning the reverse rotation prop?
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 3:06 PM Reply   
I've ridden both rotations, the goofy wake on the reverse rotation mimics the regular rotation wake. The reverse rotation boat I was on had a switch blade and when they would surf the regular side, they removed the 'blade. They didn't have to load much extra weight to get the regular wake though. Not sure if that is a characteristic of the reverse rotation boat or not.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 3:08 PM Reply   
I haven't ridden an enzo, but I have owned a 2000 Mastercraft 23', and I traded for a 2009 Tige 24Ve. We surf behind the Tige and it is a great all around boat for big water, big family and partying on the water. We did not surf behind the Mastercraft, but I am sure you could make it work.

Brendan: I almost bought an AR230 instead of the Mastercraft, but I thought that the MC would be better for us. One thing that people always talk about is the low speed handling of jet boats, do you have any problems with this?
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-12-2010, 3:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdad View Post
......I have a spine injury and can't sit for long periods without back support - as would be necessary when sitting on a fully filled fat sac. ......
HATER! LOL I love it.
Why would you have to sit on a fat sac?? There is plenty of seat area on the port side of the boat......
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-12-2010, 3:10 PM Reply   
I dont have any problems with it, but it can be tricky till you get used to it. you have to give them burst of throttle to turn. but they can be very controllable.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 3:15 PM Reply   
Thats what I thought, I see them in the coves and they do just fine. The inboards have quirks to, especially the starboard pull.
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-12-2010, 3:23 PM Reply   
they actually can turn in there own size. You can also get cobra fins, which acts like a rudder, I might add these to my boat. I would never own another I/O again. It would be jet boat or inboard only. I never driven a inboard, but I could see them being a bit difficult at slow speeds aswell.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 3:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by islander033 View Post
Why would you have to sit on a fat sac?? There is plenty of seat area on the port side of the boat......
Yeah it was completely empty! I'm sure the wake would be fine with one person on the port side, hopefully wouldn't take another 400 pounds to offset it! In the boat I saw, folks were sitting all over the ballast bag like a giant waterbed.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 3:28 PM Reply   
With practice you get real good manuevering the inboard, but docking the boat on the port side is dicey.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 3:30 PM Reply   
@ Brendan how do the Cobra Fins work? I've never heard of them.
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-12-2010, 3:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdad View Post
.....hopefully wouldn't take another 400 pounds to offset it! .....
A bit of opposite weight might even do it some good.....maybe even 400lbs of it
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-12-2010, 3:35 PM Reply   
Cobra fins, attach tot he jets, they are rudders basically, but work really really well.

look here for pics

http://www.cobrajetsteering.com/Jetski%20Photos.php
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 3:44 PM Reply   
That's so cool! And the cover for the jet slides between the fins. We had a Sea Doo Challenger 1800 back in the day, at speed it had a draft of like 3mm Reverse was so marginal and of course without thrust the boat would just go in the direction of the momentum. Those might help the low speed directionals and reverse, without really effect the draft.
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 3:45 PM Reply   
Because Dennis he is used to having to sit on the surf side of the boat in a tige. Below is our Centurion ENZO SV240 with one ENZO sac full give or take 1500 lbs. and center tank 200 lbs. for 1700 lbs. total ballast nothing else, trim tab down, around 11.5 to 12 mph, this is the way we always ride, with 3 men and 2 woman in the boat. The rider is 6'-2" tall on a Phase5 drew xl, in 20 plus feet of water. So I guess that means that I only need 700 lbs. total for the regular side to get the MONSTER.
Attached Images
  
Old    Brendan (CarFanatic5)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-12-2010, 3:49 PM Reply   
that goofy or regular rotation?
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 3:52 PM Reply   
It is a standard rotation Centurion ENZO SV240 [ It is NOT right surf]
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 3:54 PM Reply   
LOL - someone PLEASE call out that nasty seconadry lip My anciet old Tige is NOT in this pissing contest and I mentioned I wasn't thrilled with the RZ2. Oh and Ken and are you using gender as a unit of mass? It's still funny.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 3:59 PM Reply   
So, this is probably what your regular side looks like . . .
Attached Images
 
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 4:04 PM Reply   
Sweet! Enzo's need tow-in boards!
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 4:08 PM Reply   
The lip is from the vent and is only air bubbles. Only a point of reference old balding one, if I didn't mention it the next post would have been something to the effect that we had 15 people in the boat. oh eight Jeff
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 4:10 PM Reply   
'08! Lol
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 4:15 PM Reply   
Similar in size just not as washy

So my question is if Enzo's throw such a great wave on the goofy side why the need for "RightSurf"?
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 4:24 PM Reply   
Right Surf System
Optional Feature
By reversing the rotation of the prop, the wake curls in an opposite direction, providing equal performance for the “goofy-foot” rider
If you ride “goofy-footed” and are serious about wake surfing, you need the RightSurf wake system.
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 4:24 PM Reply   
So you can have the MONSTER on the goofy side of your Centurion ENZO SV240
Attached Images
 
Old    Dennis (islander033)      Join Date: May 2008       08-12-2010, 4:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
.....So my question is if Enzo's throw such a great wave on the goofy side why the need for "RightSurf"?
This is so you can have the "best" Enzo wave on which ever side that you normally surf on and a great wave on the other side.
Old    Matt (duramat)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-12-2010, 4:38 PM Reply   
Brendan, Docs boat is with regular rotation, that being said That is a good wave. It's perfectly fine for surfing and Docs pic is much better of an example than Ragheads attempt of posting up some frog eating frenchie's wave off the net and says thats how he remembered it when he went out. Islanders pic is a prime example of an excellent goofy wave also. Ragboy just wants to nit and pic any foam bubbles that are on the top that have no importance and do nothing to the surfer, nor impede.

Just find a good used Avy, Enzo, or any brand that you can find enjoyment on and sack it out and ride a friggin wave. It's so simple yet someone has to try and tear it down when they've had no experience with it.

Doc, I'm sorry, your pic was with a non authorized wake 9 camera therefore your camera is not certified in this wakesurfing forum. Nor did it also have the official Wake 9 water logo in the lower corner which discredits any and all valuable information that you were trying to share. Please remember this and try to stay with it! Also, could you please pass along the info that Wake World is now officially the sister site to Wake 9, and more tige reviews can be found there, and even more reviews to come here as well.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 4:39 PM Reply   
So your guys' goofy side doesn't have a curl to it?

I get a great curl on moth sides of mine.

Thanks Matt but I had already read that and found it to be a poor representation of the technology. Well at least I hope it was.

I think the Enzo is beautiful but its out for me if I have to get a RH prop boat so I can have a great wave on my side only to screw all of my friends on the LH side.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 4:39 PM Reply   
Wow! Ryan could surf the flats behind that Enzo! Oh wait, it's not flat, looks like it breaks 40 feet out!
Attached Images
 
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 4:43 PM Reply   
Is that a 100,000 wave?
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 4:48 PM Reply   
I heard that they discount down to $90,000 if you work em'.
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 5:23 PM Reply   
Jeff, the 1st set of pics are form the 2010 and the second pic is from the 2008, so which wave are you talking about?

If I tone down my regular then I have equal wakes that are bigger than most boats on the market with around 1700lbs. of ballast, all under the seats at the flip of a switch.

Keep listening to someone that obvisiously has an agenda spewing out "ignorant comments" that has no real experience in or behind any of the Centurion models or look at the proof presented by the people that actually own Centurions and ride the waves they peoduce on both sides as often as possible.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 5:23 PM Reply   
LOL - I guess that phrase isn't relevant anymore, more like a $250,000 wave!
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 5:29 PM Reply   
That second one. Ohhhh was that taken by Vince? So this would be that same wake, then Or is this '09?
Attached Images
 
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       08-12-2010, 5:39 PM Reply   
No that's definately '08 at the TWC, that's the board James stuck his heel through before the '08 WWSC. Such a difference in the appearance of the wakes. What are you doing differently in that picture from the one I posted from '08 TWC? Just angle of the lens or different ballast?
Old     (theanswerman)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-12-2010, 5:54 PM Reply   
So Centurion guys are the 2011 Enzo 240+ just as good as the older models?
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-12-2010, 5:54 PM Reply   
this hole thread is getting stupid here is the facts the wave will always be better on one side over the other due to prop rotation this is a proved fact I don't care who makes the boat. there will always be a difference.Why such the hang up on centurion offering either right surf or left surf it is just another way for them to make sure the customer gets what he wants the reason ragboy continues to bring it up is because tige does not offer it..Wait till the 2011 enzos hit the market with the pure vert ballast system and hard tanks on top the bar is going to be raised.WW lately has turned into a free tige advertisement everywhere you look it's tige centurion spends little on advertising and let's their boats and the wave do the talking.Rag boy if you want to show the world the true power of the tige wave lets see some video of you surfing it then your reviews might have some credibility
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-12-2010, 6:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
here is the facts the wave will always be better on one side over the other due to prop rotation this is a proved fact I don't care who makes the boat. there will always be a difference
My boat throws an equal wave on both sides with no appreciable difference between the two.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 6:51 PM Reply   
The entire argument, "due to prop rotation, the wake always be better on one side then the other" is just not true. It is that way on the Enzo, but not that way on many other boats, including other Centurions, like the Avy. It is not that way on my boat, and it is not that way on hatepain's sanger, not that way on the V226, etc. There may be slight differences. But on many boats, you can weight the exact same on both sides, and the wake is virtually identical, with minor differences.

I agree the thread is getting stupid, but sure is funny to follow that statement up with a "fact" that has proven to be untrue. I mean preference is a huge factor with wakes, like beautiful woman, or whether you prefer ford or chevy, audi or bmw, or chocolate or vanilla. But Tige and Sanger, and Supreme don't offer that feature, because it would be stupid to do so, they don't need it.

Just think of the inventory issues with offering that feature. Centurion or anyone else, would not offer unless necessary.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 6:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
My boat throws an equal wave on both sides with no appreciable difference between the two.
This calls for some "legit pics" to prove your claim.

A side order of hydrodynamics that proves that prop rotation has no effect on surf wave size, on your magical boat, would be helpful as well.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-12-2010, 7:23 PM Reply   
rag boy they might look the same to the eye but they are different it is based on science and hydrodynamics and cant be argued my waves are similar on both sides but there is a difference.Why do you say centurion would not offer it as an option if it was not needed thats stupid many boat builders offer options on their boats that are not needed the fact is centurion has been catering to surfers longer than any other builder and offers surf options others are just starting to offer.Don't hate I'm sure tige helps you out but your reviews are based on sight and what someone else tels you the wave feels like as I have never seen pics of you surfing you don't see us centurion guys trying to ram or boats down anyones throat with biased reviews here are a couple pics of my little 20' centurions wave you be the judge
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Old     (theanswerman)      Join Date: Aug 2010       08-12-2010, 7:32 PM Reply   
Is that secondary lip an optical illusion or is it that pronounced? It looks equal on each side.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 7:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
The entire argument, "due to prop rotation, the wake always be better on one side then the other" is just not true.

There may be slight differences.
What is the cause of these alleged "slight differences" that you claim may occur if it's not the prop?

Is the hull shape different on one side? (for the slow folks reading this that was a rhetorical question that illustrates the absurdity of what ragboy has posted)
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 7:44 PM Reply   
Hmm, that looks like a crappy wake on both sides with that secondary lip. I would still with the other images that were up. I don't think that represents the centurion enzo wake well. The best I have seen, is based on the video and images from the NW Open. Which my son is sitting next to me, and has been for several days, editing. Showed a great regular wake, not that above, and a good goofy wake. They took an extra 1000 lbs to make the goofy. That is my point of reference, and I don't think that makes the enzo wake look bad, many people may buy the boat based on those videos. Cool. Many people wouldn't mind a good goofy wake, since they surf mostly on regular, cool. Many people won't mind the extra work on goofy, cool.

The way we surf and host people, another family coming in this weekend, then the wolters after that, then the walkers, then I think we are doing something with calibrated...

I want it great on both sides, same work, same weight. Thats what I get on my RZ2. We are not planning on releasing video from the "Break in" day on the RZ2 til later, since we are working on the NWOpen videos right now. I don't have 2 copies of Final Cut studio, and have other things to work on. HOWEVER, I just copied and pasted 5 clips together and am uploading to youtube right now. RAW unedited clips from that day, shows both sides of the wake with 2700 lbs of weight, that includes ballast, people and gear. When it is done uploading, I will post here. If anyone has reasonable questions about the video, I will be happy to answer. Other than that, I am going to to attempt to move past this thread. So.... be back shortly.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-12-2010, 7:46 PM Reply   
the waves are similar with not much difference as it is slight but different none the less same ballast both sides not sure what secondary lip you refer to as i have not noticed one while surfing so it must be an optical illusion based on the camera angle
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       08-12-2010, 7:52 PM Reply   
it is not an enzo as i stated in my previous post just an example of how waves are different on each side there is no secondary lip the pics are taken in chop not the glass you post just a real wave in real conditions
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 7:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by _somepeteguy View Post
What is the cause of these alleged "slight differences" that you claim may occur if it's not the prop?

Is the hull shape different on one side? (for the slow folks reading this that was a rhetorical question that illustrates the absurdity of what ragboy has posted)
Who knows, could be the rotation of the earth. ;-) My point is, on my boat, and many others, the differences are negligible if at all.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 8:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
Who knows, could be the rotation of the earth. ;-) My point is, on my boat, and many others, the differences are negligible if at all.
Now they are negligible, rather than "slight"?

I'm sure you don't care... but based upon your comments within the last few weeks on this forum, you have zero credibility with me.

From the shilling to the nonsensical claims, you've shown yourself to be the lowest form of blind brand loyalty fanboi.

Serious question:

Do you even wakesurf?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 8:28 PM Reply   
I am posting video, with a bit of commentary, rather than dicing words.

I don't wakesurf, I am too fat, but slowly losing weight, and getting there. Of my family of 8, 7 wakesurf, although Jessica doesn't yet free ride. Probably next year.

I grew up in Ventura County and surfed places like County line, C Street, and occasionally port hueneme in high school. I also surfed in Hawaii on 2 different trips, but during any huge swells or anything. Largest wave I surfed in the ocean was about a 6-8 foot face. I stopped surfing when I got engaged at 19, had to get serious about making some money to get married. Started wakesufing as a family in 2007.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 8:42 PM Reply   
There was a time when they thought the world was flat....

There was probably a time when people thought you needed to drive in a circle to wakesurf. Just watch some of the old MC wakesurfing videos.

Soon there will be a time, when it will be said, "Remember when people used to think you couldn't get a great wave unless the prop was turning in the right direction"

And I hope, sometime after that, we may hear, "Remember when we used to have to fill up sacs with pumps, that was so old school. Now we just hit the lowrider button (or insert other new hull tech here) and the boat just drops and makes the wake."

Progress.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 8:51 PM Reply   
Okay, so this guy, whatever his name is, Ragboy starts a site that documents wake surfing on a Tige 24Ve. He creates video with his kids on how to do a it. He has videos on how to weight the boat, how to ride on the wake and has professional riders helping. He videos how kids can learn.

I am new to the sport and watch, it doesn't cost me anything and shows me how to wakesurf. How to be safe. How to teach my kids.

Ragboy has a complete and very detailed video on covering what he saying and tutorials on how to do it.

Now you fellas come on and say that the "whatever freaking boat you own" is better at wakesurfing than any other boat. No detail. No evidence other than five pictures of what you say are good wakesurf wakes. I call bull****. You are the ones blinded by brand loyalty. In fact I would think that you are probably tied in with Centurion in some way.

Wakesurfing is fun. Low impact. Once you learn it, you can surf any wake, hell youtube has a huge amount of people surfing cruisers, yachts, etc.

I am new to the sport, I have learned alot from Wake9 and "Ragboy". I don't give a crap whether he is a champion wakesurfer or just a driver. He gets it. It's not about the wake, or boat brand, or whatever. It's about getting out and having fun, and trying to encourage others to do it.

You guys actually wrote "Hater", what the ****. Give it a rest and just enjoy your enzo or whatever.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 8:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post

Soon there will be a time, when it will be said, "Remember when people used to think you couldn't get a great wave unless the prop was turning in the right direction"
Please stop trying to recast the discussion.

It's not about whether you can get a great wave on both sides.

The discussion, in which you've made some unsubstantiated claims, is about whether there is a difference between port and starboard wakesurf waves due to the rotation of the prop.

You contradict yourself when you acknowledge that there is a difference between the sides.

Again, what is the cause of these alleged "slight differences" that you claim may occur if it's not the prop?
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 8:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrig View Post
Now you fellas come on and say that the "whatever freaking boat you own" is better at wakesurfing than any other boat. No detail. No evidence other than five pictures of what you say are good wakesurf wakes. I call bull****. You are the ones blinded by brand loyalty. In fact I would think that you are probably tied in with Centurion in some way.
I was one of the people that noticed and commented on ragboy's shilling and I was the one that commented on his blind brand loyalty. That was based upon many of his posts.

I have a question:

What led you to believe that I am tied into Centurion in some way?

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful reply.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 9:03 PM Reply   
somepeteguy: I am only working on how I think, not you. The only reason that I would stand with a brand so hard would be if I had a reason to. I am a devote lurker. i have lurked on these forums for four years and have found that many of the people posting are very brand loyal, or are affiliated with manufacturers.

I apologize to you if you are not tied to Centurion, it is just hard for me to understand why people can be so heavy without an underlying purpose.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 9:06 PM Reply   
I love my tige, you love your enzo, the difference I am not so thickheaded to realize other boats make a great wake. Take a look at that image wheelhouse put up his malibu. Awesome looking. Chase catching that kind of air, like he was doing behind our RZ2, as was James, says it all. It means the wake was not only big, but probably had a nice transition, and also enough length to accelerate to get that air. Chase may like that wake better than mine, COOL. Chase is a good kid, I wouldn't sweat that. If that malibu wake is the same on the other side with the same weight, than I again I would say RIGHT ON. I think my RZ2 can do that or close to that on both sides, and even if after analyzing, and getting some rides in the boat, and RJ riding, I found the BU 247 wake to be 5% better or so (i know, how do you quantify?) I would stick with my Tige. Not due to blind loyalty, I chose my tige for MANY reasons. The bow is one of them. So like rockrig said, pick the boat you want, have a great time, just don't tell people that are looking for advice inaccurate info. Anyway, video almost done.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 9:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrig View Post
I apologize to you if you are not tied to Centurion, it is just hard for me to understand why people can be so heavy without an underlying purpose.
Apology accepted. I have never been in a Centurion boat in my life.

People can be "so heavy" (dramatic turn of a phrase there) because when some people fail at guerrilla marketing/shilling by using negative selling techniques against their bot's competitors it makes for some amusing reading.

People can also be "so heavy" when those same shills repeatedly make preposterous claims (on a variety of subjects) and are unable to substantiate the claims that they have made.

Considering the fact that ragboy doesn't even wakesurf, and is simply basing his opinions merely upon what he has observed, the reading just got even more amusing.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 9:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragboy View Post
I love my tige, you love your enzo, the difference I am not so thickheaded to realize other boats make a great wake. Take a look at that image wheelhouse put up his malibu. Awesome looking. Chase catching that kind of air, like he was doing behind our RZ2, as was James, says it all. It means the wake was not only big, but probably had a nice transition, and also enough length to accelerate to get that air. Chase may like that wake better than mine, COOL. Chase is a good kid, I wouldn't sweat that. If that malibu wake is the same on the other side with the same weight, than I again I would say RIGHT ON. I think my RZ2 can do that or close to that on both sides, and even if after analyzing, and getting some rides in the boat, and RJ riding, I found the BU 247 wake to be 5% better or so (i know, how do you quantify?) I would stick with my Tige. Not due to blind loyalty, I chose my tige for MANY reasons. The bow is one of them. So like rockrig said, pick the boat you want, have a great time, just don't tell people that are looking for advice inaccurate info. Anyway, video almost done.
Who is this reply directed at?

The quote button is there for a reason.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 9:31 PM Reply   
Yea, I get ya. I am pretty dramatic. Everyone says so.

And, as you know, if you can't or don't want to wakeboard, or wakesurf, or ski, you should really just find somewhere to sit and shut up. Don't buy a boat. Or try to drive your kids. Just sit and shut up.

Thoughtful and really good argument peteguy.

Your basis for amusement is chilling.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 9:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrig View Post
Yea, I get ya. I am pretty dramatic. Everyone says so.

And, as you know, if you can't or don't want to wakeboard, or wakesurf, or ski, you should really just find somewhere to sit and shut up. Don't buy a boat. Or try to drive your kids. Just sit and shut up.

Thoughtful and really good argument peteguy.

Your basis for amusement is chilling.
Wow, you just jumped to some crazy conclusions. Hopefully you didn't hurt yourself with those mighty leaps.

Did you hurt yourself?

Nowhere did I write, or imply, " if you can't or don't want to wakeboard, or wakesurf, or ski, you should really just find somewhere to sit and shut up. Don't buy a boat. Or try to drive your kids. Just sit and shut up."

Rather, I noted how silly it is for someone WHO HASN'T EVEN WAKESURFED to be making pronouncements about various wakes (like the amount of drive they have, the quality of the transition, the length relative to the potential acceleration) given the fact that he has no personal experience with wakesurfing and the basis for his pronouncements is solely based upon pictures, videos, and what he sees from inside the boat.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 9:52 PM Reply   
Do you wakesurf Peter?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 9:53 PM Reply   
@rockrig, the name is Robert Garcia. Nice to meet you. I am a software developer and long time geek and have had the handle of ragboy for over 25 years. My initials are R.A.G. and when I was signing up for prodigy with my 2400baud modem way back in the late 80s it asked for a user name. I typed in RAG. It said, taken, and offered me suggestions. "ragboy" was one of them, since, you guessed it, I am a boy. Kinda stupid, but it stuck.

So on the video from this Fat non-wakesurfer. These are 5 separate clips mashed into one, no editing, other than copy and paste into quicktime pro to put them into one video, no titles, and raw audio, no music.

Clip 1: This one the beginning of the day, using AIPTEK GVS HD camera with Raynox Wide Angle lens, camera mounted just rear of rear seat, and just above rub rail. James Walker showing some serious skill riding the regular side.

Clip 2: Chase Hazen on his own board, ripping it up. You will notice in this clip, the wake is doing something weird. We waited it down more than normal. If you set taps at 2+ it started to do this, it got steeper closer to the boat, and then like dimpled down in the middle, and of course the foam in the wake due to vent. Starting with clip 2, we are using different camera. Due to water riding high on boat, I comatosed 3 cameras. This was with a Kodak Zi8 camera with a .45 Wide angle lens, that distorts a bit on the edges, one of the reasons I prefer the aiptek and the perfect raynox lens.

Clip 3: Just like in clip 1, we put the taps down to 1-2 and that weird effect no wave is not there, looks more normal. Still chase, and a big water booger right in the middle of the lens.

Clip 4: This is goofy side, the thing is, we had taps above 2 at first, and the wake did the SAME EXACT Thing as on the regular side. On the goofy side, the camera is pointing a bit higher, but when Whitney ride in close, you can see the wake is at the same height. Whitney is about the same height as James. Weighs about 130.

Clip 5: RJ riding goofy, this is his first time on the flyboy, so getting used to it, not his best ride. RJ is between height of James and Chase, about 150 lbs.

Both James and Chase made it clear they liked the wake, had a lot of pop and push. James seem to really like it. Dennis also rode on both regular and goofy side, and felt each side had same push and characteristics. Dennis can chime in and confirm that, as he is the only one that rode both sides. Dennis?

Here is a picture, that shows in a pronounced way what I meant by that weird top dimple in the wake, when you put the taps higher than about 1.5 or so. It was the same on both sides.



And now for the video.



I am adding the side video I posted before. It was the same on both sides.


Last edited by ragboy; 08-12-2010 at 10:00 PM. Reason: added side video.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 9:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrig View Post
Do you wakesurf Peter?
Yes.

Do you?
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 9:58 PM Reply   
Yes, I do Peter.
Old    Matt Rock (rockrig)      Join Date: Sep 2009       08-12-2010, 10:02 PM Reply   
Thanks Robert. You have helped my family learn how to wakesurf and I thank you for that! Keep up the good work please!!!

I own a copier dealership, my son is a computational physics major - senior year. He is hoping to be a programmer, but the economy may dictate the end result.
Old    . . (_somepeteguy)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-12-2010, 10:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrig View Post
Yes, I do Peter.
Fantastic!

What was the point of your inane question?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       08-12-2010, 10:12 PM Reply   
@rockrig, no problem. We will keep doing it as long as we are having fun together as a family. And I don't see that changing any time soon. All of my kids, said their best day EVER was the break in day of the RZ2, not because of Tige or the RZ2. But we hosted Sean's Wakeshredder crew and chase, we gave them a good homecooked bbq and hosted them to a movie in our home theater. Then in the AM went out for an EPIC day on a great wake. Plus we had the waverunners out for fun if you weren't riding, and the pontoon boat for chase. Then amy tied up around noon and Sean's boat (Enzo 230 with switchblade, hey, there is some more experience with an enzo) and the RZ2 tied up to the pontoon around noon and Amy made us all Sandwiches. Then we surfed until like 4:30 or so.

It truly was an epic day. How can I quit with EPIC days like that? Fun, family and friends. Here is a great picture of dinner the night before the surfing. I felt these guys were all doing hotels and fast food, wanted to give them a good meal. Great time.



You see that James Walker? Next time, you show up the night before, understand? ;-)

Some of these threads can get insane, but I keep them in perspective, and I get lots of messages from the lurkers. If you are ever in the area, lets get on the lake together. I can talk programming with your son.
Old    Matt (duramat)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-12-2010, 10:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrig View Post
Okay, so this guy, whatever his name is, Ragboy starts a site that documents wake surfing on a Tige 24Ve. He creates video with his kids on how to do a it. He has videos on how to weight the boat, how to ride on the wake and has professional riders helping. He videos how kids can learn.

I am new to the sport and watch, it doesn't cost me anything and shows me how to wakesurf. How to be safe. How to teach my kids.

Ragboy has a complete and very detailed video on covering what he saying and tutorials on how to do it.

Now you fellas come on and say that the "whatever freaking boat you own" is better at wakesurfing than any other boat. No detail. No evidence other than five pictures of what you say are good wakesurf wakes. I call bull****. You are the ones blinded by brand loyalty. In fact I would think that you are probably tied in with Centurion in some way.

Wakesurfing is fun. Low impact. Once you learn it, you can surf any wake, hell youtube has a huge amount of people surfing cruisers, yachts, etc.

I am new to the sport, I have learned alot from Wake9 and "Ragboy". I don't give a crap whether he is a champion wakesurfer or just a driver. He gets it. It's not about the wake, or boat brand, or whatever. It's about getting out and having fun, and trying to encourage others to do it.

You guys actually wrote "Hater", what the ****. Give it a rest and just enjoy your enzo or whatever.
LMFAOROTF!!!

Somebody hasnt read in between the linBaes. LOL The whole thing is cause of somebody has no problem to find out faults on brands/models waves without even giving them a chance or an honest attempt to even surf them themselves!! LOL And now he says he doesnt even , nor can he surf so now he has even less credibillity!! Heck I might as well just throw a magic 8 ball at my 400lb fatsac and ask it about a boat review and see what it says!

Rag I salute you on your hard efforts of promoting the sport. PERIOD! Again, youve been doing some good things, and hats off to ya for promoting the sport and the safety aspect of it and getting your kids involved. My question to you....................................WHAT ARE YOU REPRESENTING?? Is it Wake 9 the website and the how to's?? or is it Tige? if you choose Tige, to be your boat thats great, I recommend you doing your thing promote your website and videos and use Tige and let the videos show for themselves and you stay out of critiquing the faults that you see with other brands/models that you havent even yourself SURFED ON. Your not helping your website out any by activly looking for shortcomings of reputable brands/manufacturers. If you continue to do so, your gonna tick off the very people your wanting to help. Nobody likes a "KNOW IT ALL". And lately.....youve been one.

I am not about to go on here and start ripping on Malibus, Mastercrafts, Supras, Sangers, or any other brand out there! For one,,,I havnt been on them! and for me to take one pic and blindly start picking it apart cause of one photo would be injustice and not fair wouldnt it?? I go out with bunch of others and theyre all good boats and whatever I dont like I keep my mouth shut.

I am not tied to Centurion other than I bought an 07 Elite V and have been the rounds with them on some waranty work that has gotten somewhat resolved. Will I stay with them in the future when Im ready to move up?? Thats a good question, for one,,I will not be spending that amount of coin on a new boat ever, ever again. But I do know and respect and what the brand does and is capable of doing. Ive been out with people who've had their Enzo dialed in and others who havnt. Im for trying to help them dial it in and get them rolling. Im not out there to tell them that the wash out way back where they cant surf anyways is hideouse and and a complete deal breaker. Its simple. sac it out, grab a board and surf it! If it can float your arse in a sweet spot great! carry on!! No reason to tear it apart.

Thats would pretty crappy of me to blindly go out and flame a brand/model that I havnt even been on, and became a self declared expert on waves.

Im done with this thread, its pretty obvious Rag has an agenda and his way is the only way.

Your credibility is going down the toilet, the question is ....is it clockwise or counter clockwise depending on the coriolis effect of where and whos reading this in the wold. Apparentyly Rags toilet water, much like his prop doesnt rotate also. No man can serve two masters, if your allegiance is with tige, dont even bother trying to reveiw other brands cause bro,,,you suck at it.

Now wheres did I put that 8 ball?.....

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