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Old    Joe B (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-07-2010, 2:42 PM Reply   
Looking for actual reviews of towing a 5k lb total boat with an Audi Q7??? Looking at the 4.2 and the diesel if it has an air suspension.

Please don't reply anything about other trucks unless you have a Toureg with a 4.2l. I am considering other trucks but I've heard everything about them and driven them, the only one I haven't heard about towing with is the Audi.

You guessed it a 3rd row is a must, not that an adult will ever be forced to sit there. We want something that handles well and this will just be for when the family is together and towing locally flat with 1 trip a year through big hills. I wish they put that V10 diesel in there.
Old    Greg Taylor (gregtay)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-07-2010, 5:21 PM Reply   
I have an 08Touareg with the V10TDI and air suspension and i tow an 08 Malibu 23LSV (6000-6500 loaded up) and i don't even know the boat is there (nore power than i need and totally and completely stable... and stops on a dime.) The air susp is magic! My friend has an 05 Touareg with the 4.2 and Air suspension... he tows his 22' Momba and again... doesnt even know the boat is back there. So... the Q7 with the 4.2 + air is going to blow your mind. Same if you go with the 3.0TDI motor (even better for towing.) I know it's hard to believe... but these cars can tow like bigt truck (my Touareg weighs 6000 pounds... so that helps!). The Q7/Touareg are very very stable and designed to tow (when you hook up the trailer the car automatically changes mode. It's the smartest car you will ever own. My Touareg tows better than my 07 Tunder 5.7 and my 08 Armada did.... so.. go for it.. you will be very very happy. But yes... the air susp is worth the $$$ if you are going to tow. Go search on clubtouareg.com and audiworld.com and you won't find a single comment about the Q7 or Touareg "not towing well". In fact... guys have towed way over the 7700# limit and still can't get the Touareg to get unstable or lack power.
Old    Joe J (jjaszkow)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-07-2010, 11:08 PM Reply   
my last tow rig was a Touareg. I agree with Greg on the air suspension. For such a small vehicle, it was a great tow rig. I wish it had a bit higher tounge weight rating, but doubt that that will be an issue for towing a boat.
Old    Mr.Choppy (rektek)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-08-2010, 7:47 AM Reply   
Joe,
the Q7 will do what you are planning to do with it.
however it's not a great tow rig, I think you already know that.
if I had the parking room I'd buy a clean used suburban for my tow rig.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-08-2010, 8:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregtay View Post
i don't even know the boat is there.
LOL... this tow vehicle thread is almost complete. Greg said the magic words found in ever WW towing thread! Thanks, bud.

Now all we need is the 3/4 ton diesel snobs to weigh in, and it will be just like all other tow threads.
Old    Isaac Gredinberg (extremeisaac)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-08-2010, 11:04 AM Reply   
we have a q7 3.6 with the air ride and I love it as a tow vehicle. Its comfortable, plenty of power and is an awesome car when not towing.
Old    Greg Taylor (gregtay)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-08-2010, 1:50 PM Reply   
Im so sick of everyone thinking you need a 3/4 ton truck to tow... the germans are so far ahead of us on towing technology... and i wasn't always a believer... i also thought i needed a huge truck (had a new Tundra CrewMax 5.7 and an Armada.). I want to write a letter to TopGear and ask them to do a challange... big american trucks/suvs vs german SUVs for towing a bot.. up hills, stopping, manuvering, etc. I think it would be a really fun challange for Jermey and the boys.
Old    Greg Bodor (gti2lo)      Join Date: Nov 2005       08-08-2010, 9:08 PM Reply   
I tow my X-Star with a 4.2 Touareg. Air suspension is a must. 6sp trans does a great job in accelleration etc.

I was at a slippery gravel ramp with a incline to get down to the lake level.. everyone was having issues. I locked the differentials and put it in low gear. Didn't even know the X-star was getting hauled up the gravel hill.
Old    Greg Bodor (gti2lo)      Join Date: Nov 2005       08-08-2010, 9:25 PM Reply   
Old    Dave Kiehl (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       08-09-2010, 8:24 AM Reply   
You don't need a 3/4 ton diesel to pull. But in america if you want a diesel tow rig, you more then likely will end up with a 3/4 ton truck. I would love to see america put small diesel engines in explorers or what ever SUV/car. I would so buy one. I love diesel. I am not a fan of forgien built cars but I would in a heart beat buy pretty much any forgien diesel car/suv/truck when it comes time to buy a new family car. Because diesel is where its at! I am really interested in these Audi/VW diesel tow rigs. I love that they get over 25mpg when not towing.
Old    Mr.Choppy (rektek)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-09-2010, 11:15 AM Reply   
my worry would be stopping a 5K lb boat and trailer down a grade if the trailer brakes failed. I'm pretty sure that toureg would not.
Old    Joe J (jjaszkow)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-09-2010, 11:39 AM Reply   
Mr.Choppy the brakes on the Touareg are actually pretty big, and backed by a 6 piston caliper. I was always impressed by the stopping capabilities of my Touareg, and suspect it might actually do as good of a job as a 3/4 ton pickup. Certainly did a better job than my Avalanche or 1/2 ton pickup. I was concerned about sway with the short wheelbase, but I didn't experience any problems. I won't say "it felt like I wasn't towing anything", but I don't really buy into that statement for any vehicle. My biggest complaint was the low tounge weight compared to the payload capacity, which prevented me from towing certain things (not boats).
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-09-2010, 12:30 PM Reply   
Ha, ha, ha..... My F250 actually drives better when it's towing. The ride is much smoother. As for needing a 3/4 ton diesel to tow: no way. They sure are cool, though.

That said, A Touareg, Cayenne and a Q7 all make excellent tow vehicles. They all have more than adequate motors, 6 speeds transmissions and huge brakes. In fact, the brakes are bigger than most domestic SUV's. I'd tow with one anywhere and anytime. They're much more capable than my last generation Tahoe was. IMO, air suspension is a must. If it doesn't have it, then stay away. They'll be way a$$ heavy if you're loaded with a boat and gear.
Old    Dave Kiehl (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       08-09-2010, 1:02 PM Reply   
My dad's Linclon Navigator stops my V215 better than my F250 does. Mind you I do have trailer brakes.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-09-2010, 1:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregtay View Post
Im so sick of everyone thinking you need a 3/4 ton truck to tow...
Yeah, all you "need" is a $50k+ luxury SUV. Ha!
Old    sp0tts (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-09-2010, 3:47 PM Reply   
Mr. Choppy, you obviously don't know what you're talking about here. And anyone else that wants to hate or flame here should go argue Chevy vs. Ford and then tow with a few of these vehicles before making assumptions.

The Q7 TDI will go 60-0 in 120ft with stock brakes, Touareg V6 TDI 60-0 in 130ft, and the Touareg V10 and late model Cayenne Turbos stop 60-0 in about 112ft. Most of the pickup trucks on the market today stop 60-0 somewhere in the 140-160ft range, there are a few that will stop near 130ft and they happen to cost just as much as a V6 Touareg TDI, the worst performer in this group of German SUV's stopping wise. There are also a handful of trucks that are up in the 160-170ft range. Did I mention the V10 and Cayenne Turbo brakes will fit on the Q7 and TDI Touareg? And did I mention these vehicles all have curb weights around 5,000lbs, right in the ball park with most full size pickups?

I'm not saying they're for everyone. They are expensive and I wouldn't recommend towing with one that didn't have an air suspension. And trust me, I'd be the first in line if a US company made a comparable sized diesel SUV with an air suspension and the handling and braking performance these vehicles have. But, I'd be a lot more worried towing with most pickup trucks and some failed trailer brakes than I would with any of the German SUV's being mentioned in this thread. And for reference, I work for a company that has F350 Diesels, Silverado 3500s, and a Ram 2500 and I've towed with all of the them, and I'll stick with my German SUV over all of them. To each their own, but don't hate on something you don't know anything about.
Old    Greg Taylor (gregtay)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-09-2010, 4:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sp0tts View Post
Mr. Choppy, you obviously don't know what you're talking about here. And anyone else that wants to hate or flame here should go argue Chevy vs. Ford and then tow with a few of these vehicles before making assumptions.

The Q7 TDI will go 60-0 in 120ft with stock brakes, Touareg V6 TDI 60-0 in 130ft, and the Touareg V10 and late model Cayenne Turbos stop 60-0 in about 112ft. Most of the pickup trucks on the market today stop 60-0 somewhere in the 140-160ft range, there are a few that will stop near 130ft and they happen to cost just as much as a V6 Touareg TDI, the worst performer in this group of German SUV's stopping wise. There are also a handful of trucks that are up in the 160-170ft range. Did I mention the V10 and Cayenne Turbo brakes will fit on the Q7 and TDI Touareg? And did I mention these vehicles all have curb weights around 5,000lbs, right in the ball park with most full size pickups?

I'm not saying they're for everyone. They are expensive and I wouldn't recommend towing with one that didn't have an air suspension. And trust me, I'd be the first in line if a US company made a comparable sized diesel SUV with an air suspension and the handling and braking performance these vehicles have. But, I'd be a lot more worried towing with most pickup trucks and some failed trailer brakes than I would with any of the German SUV's being mentioned in this thread. And for reference, I work for a company that has F350 Diesels, Silverado 3500s, and a Ram 2500 and I've towed with all of the them, and I'll stick with my German SUV over all of them. To each their own, but don't hate on something you don't know anything about.
Correct... my v10TDI Toaureg has 6 piston 350mm Brembo's... stopping is not a problem, ever... and i weigh in at about 6000 pounds... last i checked that's more than a lot of 1/2 trucks... so the "you aren't going to be able to stop when towing" is just in people's heads... look at the numbers. The one thing HUGE negative about the German SUVs... they are far from cheap.... but it prevents me from having to own another car/truck as a tow vehical, so it's worth it/
Old    Mr.Choppy (rektek)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-09-2010, 6:01 PM Reply   
Hey guys, I'm not hating the Audi/vw's, I make my living repairing them at a large dealer.
Do you want to know how many trannys we have had out of those vehicles in the last year?.
Do you want to see a picture of a pallet of rotors that are warped? And not from towing.
We have German engineers in our shop frequently, I'll have a chat with them next time and update what they have to say regarding towing.
Another concern is towing raises transmission fluid temps sometimes to a extreme.
Old    Greg Bodor (gti2lo)      Join Date: Nov 2005       08-09-2010, 6:12 PM Reply   
You work at a VW dealer?

I worked at one for years and it's people who drive Touareg's like a sports cars that run into issues....

Had a 2004 (no issues just a few updates and warranty work, never left stranded) and now a 2008 and it's had no issues at all... unless you consider oil changes a problem. It now had 62,000 kms of use.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-10-2010, 6:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by gti2lo View Post
Had a 2004 (no issues just a few updates and warranty work, never left stranded) and now a 2008 and it's had no issues at all... unless you consider oil changes a problem. It now had 62,000 kms of use.
IMHO any modern vehicle should go to 62,000 km without issues. I just sold my 1994 Ranger with 111,000 miles (178,000 km, I don't drive a lot) with no major problems.

My only experience with VWs is with gasoline Jettas and Beetles. All of the ones I've dealt with consume oil at 10-20x the rate of most other vehicles with double the mileage (Unless that other vehicle is a Saturn. Then they're about the same)
Old    sp0tts (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-10-2010, 8:44 AM Reply   
Mr.Choppy, I'd bet the number of trannys isn't any more than the number replaced in any other vehicles you're comparing these to. My Silverado tranny needed to be rebuilt at 80,000 miles, and I had a warped rotor on it, and it wasn't driven hard. My uncle had a Ram transmission go at 40,000 miles. I did a lot of research on these vehicles before taking the plunge and have seen very little mention of transmission problems on any forum for any of these vehicles. Not saying transmission problems can't happen on them, but I haven't heard much so please enlighten me?

As for warped rotors, rotors aren't made the way they used to be. These days they want you to buy new rotors every time you get new brakes and the rotors are half as thin as they used to be. And how many shops/techs do you see using torque wrenches instead of air wrenches? Everything on these vehicles is supposed to be torqued to spec and I can tell you I know it's not always done that way. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read overtorqued lugs are the number one cause of warped rotors. I know I worry a lot more about who's tightening my lugs than I worry about heat on my rotors. And I know I've been driving German cars for 12 years and towing with one for a year and I haven't had any issues except normal maintenence stuff and some cracked ignition coils which Porsche/Audi/VW is notorious for, and those were taken care of under warranty.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-10-2010, 8:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rektek View Post
Hey guys, I'm not hating the Audi/vw's, I make my living repairing them at a large dealer.
Do you want to see a picture of a pallet of rotors that are warped? And not from towing.
The brakes on that vehicle are better than most everything on the road. 6 piston Brembos with a 355mm rotor. You don't get anything close to that on an Ford or Chevy. What most people think are warped rotors are a little pad material left on the rotor that can be wiped clean by a few good stops. I think the issue with most is that they under use the brakes so they are never properly bedded.

Also, don't forget that anybody can put better fade-free pads in any caliper.

Oh, and the Germans actually put good high temp DOT4 brake fluid in their cars (OEM is Pentosin) unlike the DOT3 crap that most others use.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-10-2010, 9:06 AM Reply   
I like this article written by Stoptech a long time ago.

There is no such thing as a warped disc. Most techs are even too dumb to know this, but it is what they are taught so they can sell more discs.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...akedisk.shtml#
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-10-2010, 9:59 AM Reply   
I too make my living working on German vehicles. IMO, these vehicles are as solid as anything out there. All new vehicles have their share of issues. If I were to say there is a weakness it would be with the company service policies. Service intervals are stretched out way too far. Our joke at the shop about lifetime fluid in transmissions and differenetials is that it's not lifetime of the vehicle, but rather the lifetime of the part that's going to fail because it doesn't get serviced. Treat your transmission like you used to. Change the oil at 40k. Change your engine oil at 5k (with synthetic), brake fluid every two years. Diff and transer case oil at 40-60k. Service the vehicle like you should and they'll last a long time.

Also, stay away from junk aftermarket components. There isn't anyone in the aftermarket that spends the time/money that the factories do to find correct brake pad/disc materials. If you want pad transfer, squeals and poor performance, then try some of the cheaper brands, but it'll cost you more in the long run.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-10-2010, 10:10 AM Reply   
Alan.... We're not taught that to sell more discs. Most of the time if you get a vehicle in with a "warped" disc it's because the components on the vehicle are junk aftermarket bits. Sure, we could cut the disc and remove the surface deposits, then put on new pads, but they'll come back. The factory pads/rotors are engineered to work together. German manufactures use a very soft disc material to give the feel and stopping perfomance they're known for. It's also why you end up doing pads/rotors together when it's time to do a brake service.

If I get a vehicle in that has OEM components and a brake pulsation it is generally due to driving habbits. It's very rare, but we can usually coax out of the customer that they are a left foot braker, or live at the top of a very steep hill. Usually with some coaching we can eliminate the problem. We had one X5 that came back for brakes every 9k. She was a realtor in a hilly area. By teaching her to down shift on descents and brake sharply then come off the brakes we completely eliminated her problems.

Incidently.... These days I'm not sure I'd call techs dumb. A lot of us get paid like doctors and spend a ton of time learning electrical theory, computer diagnostics and very special procedures. Just when you get to know your patient it gets replaced by a whole new one. In order to stay in this business you've got to be pretty sharp or you'll just plain sink. Now, some of the dealership parts changers aren't that sharp, but I wouldn't consider them techs.
Old    Johnny Zero (dirtrider)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-10-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
Alan.... It doesn't matter if the discs are warped or if they have "pad transfer" (BS) the only way to fix excessive runout is to replace the rotors; or
machine them if you want the problem to return immediately.
Old    PLR (dbdb)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-10-2010, 10:50 AM Reply   
The only thing that would hold me back from buying a Touareg is VW's problem with High Pressure Fuel Pumps. I don't know if it pertains to the Touareg or not (I've read that it does) but I have a TDI Jetta and it worries me tons. They are doing their best to hit their customer with the cost and its between 8-10k.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286380
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-10-2010, 11:03 AM Reply   
Yea, I agree 100% with Evan & Johnny. So why do they keep calling them Warped?

FYI, I have never "Warped" a rotor. Have a condo in the mountains that we go to every weekend all winter and I do auto-x events every once in a while.

My Mother-in-Law is another story. Been through 2 sets of pads and rotors in <20k miles in her new Dodge.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-10-2010, 11:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtrider View Post
Alan.... It doesn't matter if the discs are warped or if they have "pad transfer" (BS) the only way to fix excessive runout is to replace the rotors; or
machine them if you want the problem to return immediately.
I've had mine turned down on 3 or 4 different vehicles and never had a problem with the "warp" returning prematurely. It's only like $13 per rotor to have them turned vs. $50+ a piece for new rotors.
Old    Johnny Zero (dirtrider)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-10-2010, 1:53 PM Reply   
If you have ever done a runout test or machined a rotor you would know that the "pad transfer" thing is BS.

Jeff... There is nothing wrong with turning rotors as long as you can stay within the minimum thickness spec. The problem is that if a rotor got hot enough to warp before it was machined down it will get even hotter and warp easier with less material remaining after the machine process.

The bottom line is that brake pulsation no matter what you call it (warp or pad transfer) is directly related to heat.
Old    Jeff D (Jeff)      Join Date: May 2010       08-10-2010, 3:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtrider View Post
Jeff... There is nothing wrong with turning rotors as long as you can stay within the minimum thickness spec.
Yeah, I usually only have them turned once and then replace them the next time it's needed. Have only owned one vehicle long enough to need it twice and that was a Jeep that I had 33" tires on for about 110k mi.
Old    Greg Bodor (gti2lo)      Join Date: Nov 2005       08-11-2010, 9:17 AM Reply   
Amen to Evan...

You are correct about service intervals and such. OEM rotors won't warp unless certain conditions exist. Usually driver error.

Most new vehicles are pretty good. Neglect will always destroy a car.

Jeff- Can't generalize VW based on Jetta and Bettle models... most likely 2000-2004 MKIV models with the 2.0 or 1.8t engine.

I had a 2004 TDI and drove it for 90k in two years. Not one issue... just did my fuel changes, fuel filter, pollen filter and recommended service. I sold it after two years and made $200 after my lease buy out
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-11-2010, 10:15 AM Reply   
Jeff, interesting that you mention high pressure fuel pumps failing as everyone is starting to have these issues. Both diesel and gas vehicles. As direct injection becomes common place this will become a bigger issue. I'm not sure where it will fall in the 8 yr/80k emmission warranty, but I have a feeling that car companies that want to retain customers will handle it as a goodwill repair regardless. BWM has a 3 series out there (SULEV, or super ultra low emmision vehicle) that they sold side by side with the other 325's. If the fuel pump fails the entire gas tank has to be replaced. It's a sealed steel tank and costs $8,500. They exteneded the warranty on those to 10 years and 160k miles (if memory serves correctly). Just interesting to me some of the stuff coming down the pipe. The technology is amazing (more horsepower, less emmisions and better mileage), but it comes at a price. These issues wont keep me from buying any of these vehicles, but it is something to think about when you're shopping for a new car. The forums can sometimes be a scary place. All you generally hear about are the problems. You rarely hear from the people that are totally happy.
Old    PLR (dbdb)      Join Date: Oct 2005       08-11-2010, 11:12 AM Reply   
Evan,
I was the one to mention the HPFP (High Pressuer Fuel Pump) failure. I have a 6 speed manual 09 TDI with 24k on it and haven't had any problems. I absolutely love the car. While it isn't "fast", almost 300 ft lbs of torque make it alot of fun to drive and I have averaged ~43.4 mpg since I've had it. I bought the car for good fuel mileage (I drive about 60 miles per day), but I would have never believed how much I would actually like the car itself (it is a 4 door VW). But the possibility of having to pay 8-10k for a problem I can't possibly stop from happening makes me want to sell the car. I agree that the forums are all about problems, but they are also a good place to find information. VW hasn't responded like BMW has to these problems. They infact have done the opposite and tried to stick their customers with the bill and have done it twice on the same car to a couple of people. My only point in bringing this problem up in this thread is that Audi may end up doing the same thing since they are the same company. I'd just think twice about the new diesels from VW / Audi. Just my opinion.
Old    Dave Kiehl (dave27)      Join Date: May 2005       08-11-2010, 1:15 PM Reply   
Make sure you lease your VW or Audi diesel and just remember to turn it in at the end of the lease!
Old    Johnny Zero (dirtrider)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-11-2010, 1:33 PM Reply   
My main problem with owning an Audi would be the dealer service department. You are getting a VW service department for your luxury priced car. I have had nothing but bad experiences with VW service departments. They left the drain plug loose on my wifes new Jetta and it was hanging on by a thread while it dumped oil all over our brand new driveway. Car had been driven approx 60 miles since oil change and there was zero oil left in motor when i unscrewed the plug the rest of the way. There were probably 2 quarts on the driveway, so the engine had run with very little oil in it. The dealer refused to admitt that engine damage may have occured and they also refused to clean the driveway.
Old    Greg Bodor (gti2lo)      Join Date: Nov 2005       08-11-2010, 1:50 PM Reply   
Here we go again... lets focus at the topic at hand.

Just like any boat. your experience is only as good as the dealer and their customer service.

Just think all german SUV's can be leased... no domestic truck can be lease... having your own business or the ability to write it off it only makes sense on sooo many levels.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-11-2010, 3:10 PM Reply   
Sorry PLR.

Johnny, that's why we're so successful at our shop. We're an independent that does BMW, Mercedes and Audi. Customer service is #1. After 25 years in business we're lucky (and hard working) enough to have a absolutely packed lot at a time when the dealers are begging for business. We got a good chuckle out of the local MBZ dealer putting a poster out front showing them undercutting our price on service, though we're not quite sure how they got our prices (ghost shoppers???) Anyhow.... find a good independent. Check their reviews. I think you'll be happy once you find the right place.
Old    Johnny Zero (dirtrider)      Join Date: Sep 2008       08-11-2010, 5:56 PM Reply   
Gregg... I agree, I guess the point of my long winded story was that it is too bad that Audi is tied to VW in the actual dealership.

Evan... I service my own vehicles for the most part. I was a Mercedes tech for 5 years before buying my own business. I agree that a good independent
shop is the way to go if you can't do it yourself. Better prices, more personal service, and usually a more honest approach.
Old    sp0tts (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       08-12-2010, 7:32 AM Reply   
Audi isn't always tied to VW in the dealerships/service. Two of the 3 closest Audi dealers to me aren't tied to VW at all. One is tied to Porsche and VW, and the other two are tied to Porsche. I think it boils down to who owns the dealerships, what other dealerships they own, and how the service department at each dealership is run. There are well run service departments and there are poorly run service departments. The nice thing is that any Audi dealer can do Audi warranty work, any Porsche dealer can do Porsche warranty work, and any VW dealer can do VW warranty work. You do have a choice where you take your vehicle.

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