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Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       06-24-2010, 6:01 AM Reply   
hey im buying a newer boat looking to spend about 30-35k. im not opposed to purchasing another san(what ive ridden for the last few years) but id like to know my other options. i want a smaller boat for alot of reasons: takes less weight to get a bigger wake, tables tend to be narrow due to shorter beams, and less gas consumptions. i want to stay around 21 ft. what other boats are there. im aware of the malibu vlx. i think thats about 21 ft but how is the wake? also looking at mastercrafts. ive ridden on the older xstars and i liked the wake. but havent kept up with the current models. if memory serves me correct is the v205, xstar, x2- then x1? im leaning towards another superair but not opposed to other boats. what others am i missing(of course sangers). of those that have ridden those boats can you give me your opinions of the wakes. and how much ballast you were running.
Old    Joe Mc D (jmcdanie)      Join Date: Oct 2009       06-24-2010, 7:53 AM Reply   
Take a look at the MBSports F21 or TWB. The come standard with 1800 pounds of ballast and the wake is SAN like. They also have the PCM power plants like the SAN....if that matters. The beam is 100', but not sure how narrow of a beam you are looking for....
Old    UncleJessie (unclejessie)      Join Date: Jan 2004       06-24-2010, 9:18 AM Reply   
I think a Sanger V215 weighted down is alot like an older Super Air... narrow wake width, steep and rock solid.

-Uj
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-24-2010, 9:39 AM Reply   
supra has a 21 ft tige has a 21ft. there is a supra dealer on lake anna at high point marina at the 208 bridge. also doug barmoy has a mastercraft dealership in maryland but has a satalite store at the lake anna yacht club at 208 bridge and stuart pumpelly sells tiges in woodbridge.shoot me a pm if you want their numbers
Old    Jay (ironj32)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-24-2010, 10:20 AM Reply   
Yes the X1 will be the same as the older XStars that you've ridden....super bombdiggity wake!
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-24-2010, 1:20 PM Reply   
I don't know if your going to hit the nail on the head with any boat. SAN wakes are unique. For the money, wake and room, I would go with the older Malibu VLX - pre 2005 or the 2005-2008 Vride (same hull). When I had my 2006 vride, I had it heavily weighted and didn't use the wedge. To me, it was one of the most vertical Malibu wakes I've ever ridden. Probably never should have gotten rid of that boat. It was a good one.



Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-24-2010, 1:24 PM Reply   
IMO there are only three boats that have similar wakes to the pre 07 210, SAN210, X1, Sanger V210. The Sanger is probably closer to the X1 in transition but has a bigger harder lip giving it a booty feel like the San210
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-24-2010, 1:40 PM Reply   
I went from 01 SAN to 03 SANTE to '10 MB Team Widebody. The TWB has more transition than the SANTE but is still just as firm with plenty of kick. IMHO I think that the new offerings from MB are much more "Nautique-like" than the new breed of Nautiques. I am referring to build quality, style, and feel.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       06-24-2010, 1:43 PM Reply   
what he ^ said
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-24-2010, 2:35 PM Reply   
I don't think you can get a widebody for 30-35k can you?

You can only tell so much from photos but here is V210 from boat and side
Attached Images
  
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-24-2010, 2:44 PM Reply   
Haha nope, for some reason I did not see that part of the post. Sorry.

In that case, I say newer Sanger V210 or another Super Air. Don't think you will be too impressed with a VLX or X-1 coming from a Super Air, I don't think they don't have the same kind of solid feel, but other people get used to it obviously, as there are lots of fans.
Old    Sam Hanna (samhanna)      Join Date: Sep 2009       06-24-2010, 2:47 PM Reply   
Get a used Epic. Better quality and wake the most like a Nautique with more lip and transition.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-24-2010, 2:52 PM Reply   
If you can find an epic for the price then YES. The epic is like a super air wake stacked to top of a super air wake....
Old    SamIngram            06-24-2010, 3:14 PM Reply   
Sanger!
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       06-24-2010, 5:00 PM Reply   
the other part of the equation is my riding style. i ride around 21 mph and at about 65-70 ft and typically ride wake to wake. how will these boat's wakes look at that speed?
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-24-2010, 5:25 PM Reply   
alan they also have a malibu dealer at lake anna point marina on the end of the 208 bridge. you could check out malibu,mastercraft, and supra all in a 1/2 mile radius. i know doug barmoy would be glad to pull you behind his mastercraft or a 21 footer.
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       06-24-2010, 5:33 PM Reply   
ok thanks robert. i need to get over there. ive been behind the old xstars and wakesetters. i just cant remember the weight we were running in them at the time. i vaguely remember the wakes.
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-25-2010, 7:56 AM Reply   
I don't have experience with the Sangers, but the wake shape I have been behind most comparable to an original 210 are the Centurion Cyclone/Lightning/Avalanche type hulls. Lot of vert and not terribly wide. Way more vert than BUs, Supras, and MC hulls in general. Cent wakes are more touchy than other hulls though.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       06-25-2010, 8:48 AM Reply   
alan the only correct craft dealer left in the state of virginia is down at lake gaston. they don't have a website so i would assume they are a low budget operation.if you go to nautiques. com you could try other states.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-25-2010, 10:09 AM Reply   
Here is Corky's website.... http://lakegastonwatersports.com/
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-25-2010, 1:41 PM Reply   
centurion also has a 20"8" model the falcon but the beam is 102" the hull is shaped like the 210 but the wake is bigger we love ours team cbk marine in Tennessee still has a couple 08's in your price range
Attached Images
   
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-25-2010, 8:29 PM Reply   
What Darren said. Exactly right.
Old    Chris (rio_sanger)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-25-2010, 8:51 PM Reply   
I'm going to have to agree with Darren and Sparky. To get a similar wake you need to start with similar hull characteristics. The Sanger V-210, 205V (X-1), and early SAN 210s, all have 90'" beams, and are of similar length at 20' 8" or so. These narrow, (by today's standards) hulls respond very well to weight placement, and "sink" without much help at all, compared to some of the behemoth boats out there today.
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-26-2010, 12:09 AM Reply   
Darren nailed it...

I have a Sanger V210. With my medium weight set up, I run about 2000# in it.

About a month ago I rode behind a 2003 SAN210 with about 2300# in it. The wake shapes LOOK similar...but the SAN210 pops a lot different. It is as hard as concrete. Also, the SAN210 trough has a serious dip to it. That means if you go a little long...it is a lot worse than landing in the flats. You actually land going uphill...and it HURTS. The first W2W jump I did I popped about 3 feet higher than I expected...and landed in the pain zone. I found that on the SAN210 I had to ride a longer rope than normal to avoid going to long.... It is also a less forgiving wake. Because it hits so sudden and hard your pop can be very inconsistent. You need to be a consistent rider to enjoy this wake.

People who have not ridden behind my V210 always comment on how firm and poppy the wake it. It really sends you up. Because it is not as hard as the SAN210 wake, and because the transition to the steeper portion is more gradual than the SAN210...it is more forgiving than the SAN210 wake.

The 205V is larger than either, but not as steep. It is a tad harder than the V210...but not nearly as hard as the SAN210.

FYI...I am an intermediate level rider

Last edited by kitewake; 07-26-2010 at 12:17 AM.
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-26-2010, 12:20 AM Reply   
Here is a pic of my V210 wake. We had about 1500# in it this day

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wakesho...57623864714841
Old    Mike G (mike_gilbert)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-26-2010, 1:27 AM Reply   
"centurion also has a 20"8" model the falcon but the beam is 102" the hull is shaped like the 210 but the wake is bigger we love ours team cbk marine in Tennessee still has a couple 08's in your price range"


Wait, you think your falcon has bigger wake than the SAN??? And at 102 beam it is significantly wider than the SAN.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-26-2010, 5:18 AM Reply   
The Supra 21v wake is the biggest/rampiest I've ever ridden behind in that size, including VLX's, SAN's, and X1/205V. It can compete with the bigger boats, just the easiest pop I've ever experienced behind a boat, and that includes my 24
Old    Sippi (sippi)      Join Date: Dec 2007       07-26-2010, 7:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
alan the only correct craft dealer left in the state of virginia is down at lake gaston. they don't have a website so i would assume they are a low budget operation.if you go to nautiques. com you could try other states.
There is a Correct Craft Dealer down at smith mountain lake. Its Webster's Marine at bridgewater on 122. Just got back from there last week, talked to some of the guys at the dealership, they seem like nice guys, and from what i've heard they have a great rep. even though i saw a lot more mastercrafts on the lake than nautiques.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-26-2010, 8:00 AM Reply   
Epic.... you honeslty can find them close to that price range and it is a SAN210 wake shape with twice the size
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-26-2010, 8:16 AM Reply   
Alan already bought a new san.
Old    Jordan E (mutau052)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-26-2010, 6:48 PM Reply   
there is a guy in GA with a 2008 MB 220v with 20hrs on it for 35K - it would be and absolute steal. Look on boattrader.com
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       07-26-2010, 6:52 PM Reply   
yeah i bought another super air.
Old    mojo            07-26-2010, 6:59 PM Reply   
good decision. what was youre previous/current
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-26-2010, 7:22 PM Reply   
Sanger V210 is alot closer than the 215. The 215 wake is wider and the boat takes a considerable amount of additional weight versus the V210.
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       07-27-2010, 9:59 AM Reply   
sorry harold, but that centurion is nothing like a SAN. the wake shape on a SAN is perfect and even; centurion's wakes are not. The transmission on a SAN sounds normal; centurion's sound like they are going to explode. doesnt centurion use wood stringers still? I could go on, but...

good decision Alan.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-27-2010, 6:24 PM Reply   
If Centurion does use wood stringers, that would be a SMART choice on their part.... you guys can take this opportunity to go get your popcorn now. lol
Old    mojo            07-27-2010, 6:31 PM Reply   
how would wood strings be smart? it only makes buying a used boat more worrysome and owning one for a while that much more of a pain.
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-27-2010, 7:16 PM Reply   
violator no wood in the stringers or in the boat the wake on the falcon is even with no wash you must be referring to the other centurion models with much deeper vees look at the shape of the hull it is similar to the 210 but much bigger as is the wake as far as the trans and engine it has the black scorpion with a Borg warner mated to a Walter v drive so no weird sounds as that was the standard power plant and drive for most manufactures until this year because pcm can still offer non cat engines and are compatible with multiple digital displays. with mercruiser you can only use their digital display.

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