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Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       05-28-2010, 9:21 AM Reply   
Well, since I have asked a bunch of questions lately, I figured I should show what I am working on.

Laying out the components.
1 JL XD600/6
1 JL HD 600/4
1 Alpine PDX M6
3 of the 4 cooling fans.
distribution blocks.


PD up on it's mounting blocks. I am going to bring the wires in underneath so no holes are exposed for the amps.



Mounting up the other amps. The rack is in two pieces so I can get it in the opening for where it is going.


Laying out the cables so I know where everything is going. The rear out on the deck goes to the EQ. The EQ then goes to the PD for the subs and the HD600/4 for the tower. The front outs from the deck go to the XD600/6 which powers all 6 of the inboat speakers.



More updates later today.

Last edited by Silverbullet555; 05-28-2010 at 9:23 AM. Reason: Fixed link
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-04-2010, 8:56 AM Reply   
Here's another update.

had a new stereo panel cut out of 1/4" aluminum for all the components. I put in switches so I can indivdually turn each amp off if I want to, turn the fans on or off and the LED's on the amp rack on or off. Also installed temp a gauge and a switch so I can monitor the temp of each amp and the ambient temp in the compartment. Fans are controlled by a switch and by a temp switch on the amp that will get the most use.

Hopefully, I can make the final cuts in the boat and get most everything installed today and tomorrow. I still need to build the box for the XS12.

Deck and EQ mounted in panel. This is all int he glovebox so water is really no concern.


USB input for ipod or thumbdrive and 3.5mm stereo input for MP3 player.


Top left is the ACR led indicating when the batteries are combined and charging. The pushbutton switches to control some of the components, the switch to select which temp sender is being read and the voltmeter all installed.


The left half of the panel.


The whole panel.
Old    Aaron Ware (99_slaunch)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-04-2010, 10:10 AM Reply   
That looks real clean. Nice job. Would you post a link where you purchased the push buttons and fans from.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-04-2010, 10:18 AM Reply   
The switches I bought are made by Bulgin and I bought them from Mouser. They are the MP0045 series. You can get them with LED, without, with LED ring or with LED dot in the middle. These are double pole, single throw and they are latching so when you push the button it stays pushed until you push it again. I wired them up they are normally closed. As they look now, the LED will be lit and the amp will be on. If I decided to turn one off, I would push the button in, the LED would go out and the remote wire for the amp would be disconnected.

The fans I am using I bought from Ritz camera. They are the stinger cross flow fans. Each fan pulls .19 amps and they are brushless so there should be very little electrical noise.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-12-2010, 9:05 PM Reply   
Got the rack installed today which was a royal pain. Didn't come out as good as I wanted and the mess of wires to each amp is disappointing. Not much of a way around it running a 6 channel, a 4 channel and a mono amp.


Working on installing the face plate in the glove box.


Installing the second amp.


Tomorrow I will have all three amps installed and work on the final wiring to the battery and isolator.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-12-2010, 9:18 PM Reply   
Nice work dude, very innovative.
Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       07-13-2010, 7:20 AM Reply   
I like that look a lot! Very clean face plate!
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-13-2010, 3:11 PM Reply   
That is a very well thought out system and as Nu said innovative and on its own page. The wires do look a bit messy at this time but I'm sure will clean up. I think the reflective nature of the diamond plating doesn't help out any. All in all very nicely done, I know it has been a very long project.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-13-2010, 9:14 PM Reply   
Got all three amps installed today. Looks much better with the wires hooked up.


The final wiring to the distro blocks.


Another pic of all 3 amps.

Hooked everything up asnd it actually works. Have a little work to do on the temp gauge due to a broken wire and one of the temp gauges reading Hi.

Pretty stoked that nothing popped when hooking up the wire.

I need to put the cover over the deck to hide that wiring, install the isolator and build the speaker box. Feels great that we are getting close.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-13-2010, 9:37 PM Reply   
Wondering why you went with 3 different amps? Also why you have 4 cooling fans and not 3?
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-14-2010, 7:14 AM Reply   
3 different amps so I have control of each area. The boat has 6 speakers in it so a 6 channel made a lot of sense. The tower has 4 pods on now so I used a 4 channel amp to power the tower and the 3rd amp powers a 12" sub.

4 fans because it fit there and I wanted a steady stream of air all the way across in an attempt to keep from having spots with no air movement. Even with all the planning, there were things that evolved over the course of the project and I would do differently now.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-14-2010, 7:18 AM Reply   
I said 3 different amps, as it make and model?
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-14-2010, 8:07 PM Reply   
I needed a 6 channel to run the speakers in the boat so I went with a JL XD600/6. It gives me some headroom if I change out the speakers to something that needs a bit more power. The tower needed 150 watts per channel for the pods so I went with a JL HD600/4. For the Sub, I went with the new version Alpine PDX-m6 partly because of cost. It was cheaper and met the needs of the system.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-14-2010, 8:10 PM Reply   
Gotcha, I've got an HD 600/4 as well it's a great amp. That system is going to just sip power, really efficient stuff.
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-14-2010, 8:17 PM Reply   
If you ever take it out, hit the diamond plate with a sand blaster to know the reflections down.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-18-2010, 11:22 AM Reply   
Built the speaker box last night and cut the hole for the woofer this morning.



You can see the braces to add additional support. I used 3/4" Marine Grade Plywood at the recommendation of the speaker maker. I made the face as small as I could to accomodate the speaker. May not be the best idea, but we'll see how it works. All the joints are glued and screwed together. I did have to remove a couple screws and replace them with shorter ones on the edges of the speaker cutout. I will also be placing another sheet over the speaker cut out to provide additional support. It will go all the way to the edges and screw into the side walls. It will be glued as well. All the goop you see on the seams is a construction sealant. It stays flexible and I used it to seal all edges. I will drill a hole in the back for the wires to come out and then seal that hole up. Then I will let it sit for a while in the sun to dry.

Close-up of the braces.




Finally I will grab the router and clean up the edges with a roundover bit and cover with some left over carpet.

Here's a pic of the sub set into the opening.



The sub is a Wesounds XS-12 dual voice coil sub. Each voice coil is 2 ohms and I will wire them in parallel to make it a 4 ohm speaker. If I end up adding a second sub, I can wire them in series to make it at 4ohms. Just gives me flexibility and since I am running an amp that puts out the same power at 2 ohms and 4 ohms, this will work well. If the amp put out more at 2ohms I would probably have gone with a dual 4 ohm voice coil to make it run at 2ohms.

I am going to first mount it firing into the side of the hull and see how that sounds. Then I will put it firing up and see if it sounds better or worse. It will be in the compartment in front of the helm.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-18-2010, 11:30 AM Reply   
You'll have to wire it in series to get 4 ohms.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-18-2010, 11:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05mobiuslsv View Post
You'll have to wire it in series to get 4 ohms.
You're right. Typed in the wrong way.
Old    mojo            07-18-2010, 12:17 PM Reply   
i would definitely put some fiberglass resin on the inside and outside. and mount it up off the floor.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-18-2010, 12:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
i would definitely put some fiberglass resin on the inside and outside. and mount it up off the floor.
I doubt I will resin it since it is marine grade plywood and in a completely dry area, but I have been known to go the extra mile. I will wait until I know I like the way it sounds since it is my first box.

Are you recommending it up off the floor for airflow and to keep inadvertant moisutre off of it?
Old    mojo            07-18-2010, 1:22 PM Reply   
ya to keep moisture from getting trapped. just from experience i would coat it just in case. better than having to build a new box. anywhere in a boat has the ability and tendency to get wet. get some of the hdpe blocks from earmark. if you have the room i'd build a ported box for it. i had mine in a sealed box and think it would do better ported, plus wet sounds said that's better, yet both work. if it's in a compartment you will want to vent that also.
Old    Steven (stu929)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-18-2010, 1:26 PM Reply   
Where does one get marine grade plywood? I have looked around and keep drawing a blank.

Thanks
Old    Brit Rider (brit_rider)      Join Date: May 2004       07-18-2010, 1:42 PM Reply   
"but I have been known to go the extra mile"

Following this thread I think that this may be the understatement of the decade.

Incredible attention to detail!
Old     (frosty2469)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-18-2010, 2:10 PM Reply   
Very, very nice!
Did you do the faceplate yourself, of not, where did you get it done, very nice labels, etc.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-18-2010, 2:38 PM Reply   
Picked up resin today. I figure I will resin it then put the carpet on with the second coat of resin. Price is about the same as spray on glue. I got the marine plywood from a real lumber yard. Usually you have to go places other than bog box stores. There is a building supply place that has it locally. About $85 a sheet for 3/4".

The faceplate was made for me by a friend of mine. He does engraving and panels for a living so it was pretty easy for him. It was probably harder dealing with me and all the changes/adjustments.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-19-2010, 7:42 PM Reply   
Coated the box today with 3 coats of resin. When I get back, I'll put on the carpet and we should be good to go.
Old    Bwake (bwake)      Join Date: Sep 2009       07-21-2010, 3:13 AM Reply   
Hi mate, i really love what you have done.

Ive done a bit of a DIY project with a custom glass box with 4x6x9's facing outwards and 4x6.5's facing down into the boat. Havent yet finished the box (its such a nightmare) so just looking for ideas.

Few questions? How have you mounted your amp to the side of the boat? What did this involve?

Why do you have fans on the amps? Is this not overkill when most amps are fine without fans?

Cheers and keep up the good work, Hope it sounds great.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-21-2010, 10:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwake View Post
Hi mate, i really love what you have done.

Ive done a bit of a DIY project with a custom glass box with 4x6x9's facing outwards and 4x6.5's facing down into the boat. Havent yet finished the box (its such a nightmare) so just looking for ideas.

Few questions? How have you mounted your amp to the side of the boat? What did this involve?

Why do you have fans on the amps? Is this not overkill when most amps are fine without fans?

Cheers and keep up the good work, Hope it sounds great.
I epoxied some marine grade plywood to the back of the storage area then screwed starboard to the plywood.

I added fans just in case because that cabinet gets warm from the sunshine, there is no constant source of cool air and the amp rack has a cover that goes over it. I didn't want to have to take it out later to add them if there were problems so I went ahead and put them in. bascially just trying to think of any possible issues ahead of time.
Old    Wetwilly (mywakeisbiggerr)      Join Date: Apr 2009       07-22-2010, 8:33 AM Reply   
unless your planning to have a party on top of that box, you don need them support brackets
Old    mojo            07-22-2010, 9:33 AM Reply   
it's good to brace a box when they start getting around 1.2 cu ft. my last box for the same sub he's using was not braced and i had no problems, but it was mdf w/ resin and carpet and slowly deteriorated from water damage. next box=ear mark marine's poly coated bass reflex on hdpe pads.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-22-2010, 6:42 PM Reply   
This box is about 1.4 cuft and I figured it would be good to put them in, even if not needed. Maybe some hottie will want to ride on it and we'll have a party on it.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-22-2010, 8:40 PM Reply   
Finished the speaker box tonight with some carpet. Did it the easy way and it is not perfect, but it will do.



The carpet definitely hides the defects in the box which I like.

Put some rubber weatherstripping on the bottom of the speaker and then wired the two voice coils together to make a 4 ohm speaker.



Next to a spray can to illustrate the size.


Speaker all screwed down and ready to thump.
Old    pete c (saceone)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-23-2010, 6:54 AM Reply   
88 sticker + one helluva clean install , good stuff man!!
Old    Richard Coop (mendo247)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-23-2010, 8:33 AM Reply   
Man thats a big box lol Looks good man. Id love to hear one of those.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-23-2010, 9:33 AM Reply   
Yeah thats a pretty big sealed enclosure for sure. Thats more like the size you'd want for a ported. Interested to see how it sounds.

This has been a great and detailed build man, now get this crap all in and going summers half over!
Old    Chris (cbennett224)      Join Date: Mar 2009       07-23-2010, 10:37 AM Reply   
Box looks great! Just an idea. But if you want to clean up the edges of the box, since you can see grey underside of the carpet. You can get some black carpet/vinyl spray. I did it on my box in my truck and the one in our boat, it cleaned it up really nicely. Made it look ten times better. Since my cutting job wasn't always the best.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-23-2010, 11:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatepain View Post
Yeah thats a pretty big sealed enclosure for sure. Thats more like the size you'd want for a ported. Interested to see how it sounds.

This has been a great and detailed build man, now get this crap all in and going summers half over!
It looks bigger than it is. The inner dimensions are 11.5 by 11.5 by 13.75. Then take out the space for the braces and it is right about the size that Tim from wetsounds recommends. Can't wait to finish it tonight and tomorrow to get some lake time. I have this funny feeling I might also need to replace the batteries.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-23-2010, 8:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbennett224 View Post
Box looks great! Just an idea. But if you want to clean up the edges of the box, since you can see grey underside of the carpet. You can get some black carpet/vinyl spray. I did it on my box in my truck and the one in our boat, it cleaned it up really nicely. Made it look ten times better. Since my cutting job wasn't always the best.
Used a sharpie to clean up the edges and it looks a lot better. No one will see it much, but it is nice to see the edges look a little nicer.

Tonight I hope to put the sub in and wire the ACR and battery switch.
Old    Benjamin (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       07-25-2010, 11:36 AM Reply   
James, let me preface by saying I'm not too electronics savvy...how do you wire the fans in? I have 2 amps in my boat and would like to add some fans...
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-25-2010, 12:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendow View Post
James, let me preface by saying I'm not too electronics savvy...how do you wire the fans in? I have 2 amps in my boat and would like to add some fans...
Since I was running three amps I decided to put all of them through a bosch relay for the remote wire. Since the bosch relay can handle 30 amps, I just wired the fans into the relay so when the remote wire on the stereo goes hot, the fans turn on. I do have it wired through a push button switch and a thermal switch, but that is extra and above.

In short, the remote turn on (usually blue) wire from the deck goes into the relay. When the stereo turns on, the relay energizes and kicks on all of the amps, the 4 fans, etc.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-25-2010, 1:08 PM Reply   
Spent last night putting in the new 2 battery switch and the automatic combiner into the boat, running wires and putting battery lugs on. I have to say that a hydraulic crimper is one of the best tools invented if you have to crimp large lugs. I have one of the hammer crimpers, but the hydraulic one is so much better.

Working on the cover plates today and my wife is up so I should be able to go work on the boat as soon as the Brickyard 400 is over.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       07-25-2010, 7:53 PM Reply   
Got all the wiring done for the batteries, the ACR hooked up, the new switch installed and the common ground taken care of.

I do need some help though. When I turn the Alpine PDX-M6 amp on, the voltage drops down to around 11.5 pretty quick. I get some light thumps, but not much in the way of quality sound.

I'm thinking that the battery is toast. It is a 5 year old Interstate Marine Cranking Battery. It has been on a battery tender so it is full.

When I turn off the Sub amp, the voltage climbs back up to 12.3 and the other amps continue to run.

Anything else to look at other than replacing both batteries.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       08-01-2010, 7:51 AM Reply   
Spent some more time on the boat tonight working on hooking everything up and getting it put back together. I was working on trouble shooting what is going on with the sub checking status lights on the PDX Amp when I smelled smoke so I shut it all down. Amp wasn't hot, no error lights. But, the Sub was smoking. Pulled it out of the boat and took it out of the box. Box was filled with smoke. Wires all look good, but movement is very rough indicating that it is likely blown.

I shot an email to Tim at Wetsounds and am waiting to hear. Just trying to figure out what would cause a nearly instant speaker meltdown.

Amp is an Alpine PDXM6 at 600@ RMS at 2 or 4 ohms.

Speaker is a WS XS-12 wired at 4 ohms.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-01-2010, 8:13 AM Reply   
Wow, thats weird! Probably just a defective sub, it can handle 600 watts all day long.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-01-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
James,
Be careful before you put another subwwofer on that same amplifier just in case the sub got a dose of DC. You don't want a repeat performance.
A sub will fail as you described because of the following sequence. Too much continuous power in the form of a clipped or compressed waveform (not a normal clean and transient waveform). A faulty amplifier or component in the signal path can also put out a destructive signal. When the continuous power exceeds the voice coil's thermal capacity and ability to dissipate the heat then the enamel insulating coating that separates the windings melts or burns. At that point the windings begin to physically connect with one another which signifcantly lowers the shorted voice coil's DCR which in turn causes more current to flow through an already damaged voice coil which is followed by actual burning of the copper coil wire. At that point the enamel and adhesives that keep the voice coil tightly wrapped around the former (round sleeve) have given way so that the coil gets bunched up in the gap. As the speaker cools the enamel hardens and the frayed coil is fixed in a distorted pattern which now has friction against the outer wall of the fine gap. At that point the heat can build up even more rapidly. So the damage can happen gradually and not necessarily in one instance.
All enamel melts and all copper burns from woofer to woofer at pretty much the same temperature. Some speakers have larger diameter coils with longer and therefore larger gauge wire to maintain the same impedance but this speaker will also require much more power to drive. So there is always going to be a trade-off...more power handling versus less sensitivity.
There is usually a reason why the woofer blew beyond the woofer's construction. EQ, Bass Boost,
dirty downloads, bad enclosure, defective amplifier or other component in the signal path.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       08-01-2010, 12:24 PM Reply   
Someone said to test the output on the amp first with a voltmeter. I will check that tonight but I do need to understand what I want to see on the output side using a DVM.

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