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Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-16-2010, 11:58 AM Reply   
Just got pictures of the new 2011 MB Sports F21 Tomcat. I really like some of the updates they came up with. Colors are nice too on this one. Pretty sure F21 will be my next boat.
Attached Images
          
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-16-2010, 12:02 PM Reply   
I've never been a fan of the swirlish decals on the mb's but I am a sucker for black and green I also like the center gauge with the 4 readings built into the one gauge. Not sure if that was a feature last year or not.
Old    Dave (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-16-2010, 12:48 PM Reply   
They are really nice looking boats. The price point on them is quite attractive too.

I thought of this one I found the other day in which the seller is lying out of his A$$ cause the boat was never this much new or anywhere near it.

http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/1811533940.html
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-16-2010, 12:53 PM Reply   
I like these boats but have always hated their graphics. I think they are in the Gel coat as well.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-16-2010, 1:00 PM Reply   
Dave, That guy definitely did not pay $95,000 for that boat, but I assure you, he paid a lot more than what he is asking.

Mark, I hear ya, not for everyone, but MB will make just about anything you want. The boats you see out there are designed by customers for the most part.
Old    Tampa Wake (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-16-2010, 1:57 PM Reply   
not rippin mb at all just never really liked their graphics. I think onlyinboards guy has a sweet widebody all white.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-16-2010, 2:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tampawake View Post
I like these boats but have always hated their graphics. I think they are in the Gel coat as well.
Great boats, but I'm with you on the gel coat, not to mention the flames sewed into the interior.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-16-2010, 2:29 PM Reply   
Graphics really dont do it for me, but the rest of the boat looks pretty nice. these are starting to grow on me, I especially like the gravity fill ballast system. Pretty slick idea, not much to go wrong unless you have to drain and cant move or pull it out of the water.

Anyone know where these are made?
Old    mojo            07-16-2010, 2:33 PM Reply   
the cool thing about their graphics is they aren't vinyl. they are in the gel coat.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-16-2010, 2:47 PM Reply   
No way? Thats kinda cool actually. But i still dont like the looks. Just not my taste. I like simple, harder lines.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-16-2010, 2:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
the cool thing about their graphics is they aren't vinyl. they are in the gel coat.
Personally I think that is a bad thing. I like color schemes being gelcoat but swoops, tribal, flames, etc... shouldn't be gelcoat. They are just too trendy and I wouldn't want to be stuck with the boat being that way forever. For example, MB's from 2002 with the huge flames look so dated it isn't even funny.
Old    mojo            07-16-2010, 3:13 PM Reply   
ya i don't like the looks, but i like the attention detail. i believe they are made in cali.
Old    Nate (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-16-2010, 5:38 PM Reply   
how is the bow? the seats look really shallow? Are they comfortable at all? I'm a big fan of this boat but curious on certain features.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-16-2010, 6:03 PM Reply   
I dont like how long the bow comes out past the seats, looks kinda goofy, but detail does look nice. if I had 60K burning a hole in my pocket, i still wouldnt go with an MB.

Last edited by ilikebeaverandboats; 07-16-2010 at 6:03 PM. Reason: sp
Old    Randy (dudeman)      Join Date: Mar 2005       07-16-2010, 6:08 PM Reply   
Sweet. Bad A all the way. If my wife would let me pull the trigger, it would be that.
Old    pip (pip9ball)      Join Date: Sep 2009       07-16-2010, 8:13 PM Reply   
Bad ass boats made in Atwater, CA.
Old    Adam Fullmer (adam4x4)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-16-2010, 8:16 PM Reply   
Anyone know where these are made?[/QUOTE]

Thay are made in Atwater Ca.


The front seat room is very nice, i do not think that it is shollow.

I'm like the ice chest that the moved and looks like the lid is bigger, Did they add a trim plate?
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-18-2010, 1:09 PM Reply   
These boats are really nice. I had the pleasure of riding behind a 2011 F21 Tomcat a few months back and i was really impressed. Great fit an finish and the vinyl seemed very thick. 1800 lbs stock ballast under the floor is great and you don't have to worry about burning up pumps with the gravity system. There is lots of room in the boat and the bow is huge! The engine had the fastest get up and go of any boat I've ever been in too.

Adam- The one I rode behind had a wakeplate.

P.S. I am in no way affiliated with MB, just wanted to throw my .02 in.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-18-2010, 7:35 PM Reply   
Why I am a big fan.

PCM Engines
One of the biggest ballast systems available (1800 lbs in a 21' boat and 2400 in the 23')
Without a doubt the fastest filling and emptying ballast systems on the market
One of the best handling boats on the market
One of the best wakes out there
LIfetime warranties on most of the boat
Price ( The boats come loaded so yo can't really skimp, but they are in the same ballpark as an equally equipped Axis A22 or X1)

If you are not in to the gel-coat, just get a wrap. I personally like the graphics and people usually go crazy when the see them in person, a lot of craftsmanship goes into these boats.

As you guys know, I used to be a dealer and MB was one of our lines. Now that I am out of the industry and finally riding and boating for fun again, I choose will choose MB all day long. I have seen the good, bad, and ugly from most of the manufactures and MB builds one of the best in my opinion.
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-18-2010, 7:48 PM Reply   
I'm sure they make great boats, but IMHO MB needs to stop making boats with paint schemes that resemble class A motorhomes...
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-18-2010, 7:53 PM Reply   
what happens when you get stuck on the water and you need to drain the ballast? is there a pump back up?
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-18-2010, 8:10 PM Reply   
Why would you need to drain the ballast if you are on the water and your boat is broken down?
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-18-2010, 8:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
Why would you need to drain the ballast if you are on the water and your boat is broken down?
Why are you answering a question with a question?
Old    Mario (mdaijogo)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-18-2010, 10:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebeaverandboats View Post
what happens when you get stuck on the water and you need to drain the ballast? is there a pump back up?
There is a manual override that opens the gate. Once you get towed to the marine/dock. you put your boat on the trailer, let the water drain out (~1min for 1800lbs) and off you go. The gravity system rocks. I love my F21.

Mario-
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-19-2010, 3:34 AM Reply   
I was pointing out that it is a moot point. Yes, there is a manual override to open or close the gates. So assuming you can move forward, you can empty the ballast. If you are broken down, you pull the boat out of the water with the gates open.

Didn't mean to answer the first time with another question, but I am sure it answered his question if he thought about it.

Last edited by alans; 07-19-2010 at 3:37 AM.
Old    Preston Price (Preston)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-19-2010, 6:50 PM Reply   
Does MB still run a 2 speed transmission in their boats? I remember they use to advertise it a few years back, but nowhere on their website do they mention their transmission.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-19-2010, 6:56 PM Reply   
Nope. Not unless someone special orders one. They are cool, but I think a little too involved or the average consumer.
Old    Preston Price (Preston)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-19-2010, 7:14 PM Reply   
Cool, I'm glad they went away from that. I really wish there was a dealer in the Houston area to take a demo ride on. I'm really curious about the wake and what it compares to.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-19-2010, 9:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
Why would you need to drain the ballast if you are on the water and your boat is broken down?
So say you get stranded at the back of the lake with your ballast full, you get your buddy to drag your sacked out boat all the way back?

I dont see how my question isnt valid. I dont like towing people in, but I like to help if I can, pay it forward, I would be pretty pissed if someone expected me to tow in there boat while their ballast tanks were still full.

get what im sayin? I think its a sick idea, but I would just like a back up in case.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-19-2010, 10:01 PM Reply   
"I would be pretty pissed if someone expected me to tow in there boat while their ballast tanks were still full."

What if you saw a stranded boat and you decided you wanted to be the good samaritan and you roll up and there are like 5 400 lb. girls and a 150 lb. dude in the boat? Do you make dude toss the whales in order to get a tow?
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-19-2010, 10:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
"I would be pretty pissed if someone expected me to tow in there boat while their ballast tanks were still full."

What if you saw a stranded boat and you decided you wanted to be the good samaritan and you roll up and there are like 5 400 lb. girls and a 150 lb. dude in the boat? Do you make dude toss the whales in order to get a tow?
hahaha you got me on that one bro...

I think I would ask him If I could barrow his ballast and get some awesome surfing in before I gave him a pull.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-19-2010, 11:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebeaverandboats View Post
So say you get stranded at the back of the lake with your ballast full, you get your buddy to drag your sacked out boat all the way back?

I dont see how my question isnt valid. I dont like towing people in, but I like to help if I can, pay it forward, I would be pretty pissed if someone expected me to tow in there boat while their ballast tanks were still full.

get what im sayin? I think its a sick idea, but I would just like a back up in case.
I think you are really nit picking here. Any boat can brea down. Any boat could get stuck with water in the tanks (ever heard of pump failure). All are unlikely events. And no matter which boat breaks down, it needs a tow.

My boat has never failed to start. But if it did while I was on the water, the last thing on my mind would be whether or not my tanks were loaded. Once on the trailer, the water comes out in a minute. No big deal.

Are you honestly saying that you'd be nice enough to offer a tow, but not if the tanks are full. What about if my gas tank is full... would you still be pissed? What about if my cooler is jammed with ice and drinks... still pissed off?

Just seems odd that you'd place conditions on your "paying it forward."
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       07-19-2010, 11:39 PM Reply   
These boats look better each year but, no matter how quickly they can fill/empty ballast, they still need some rhinoplasty to be a realistic contender in my books. Somebody call in Dr. Nick with a chainsaw.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-19-2010, 11:40 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
I think you are really nit picking here. Any boat can brea down. Any boat could get stuck with water in the tanks (ever heard of pump failure). All are unlikely events. And no matter which boat breaks down, it needs a tow.

My boat has never failed to start. But if it did while I was on the water, the last thing on my mind would be whether or not my tanks were loaded. Once on the trailer, the water comes out in a minute. No big deal.

Are you honestly saying that you'd be nice enough to offer a tow, but not if the tanks are full. What about if my gas tank is full... would you still be pissed? What about if my cooler is jammed with ice and drinks... still pissed off?

Just seems odd that you'd place conditions on your "paying it forward."
I just wouldnt be as happy about doing it, but I still would do it. Dont get me wrong I see what your saying, and I see how I came across and thats not how I meant to come across. I wouldnt take gas money or anything for a tow in. you use more gas pulling a boat thats full of ballast, I just wouldnt wanna use more to pull their water. I dont think I can explain this without sounding like a total a$$ so im gonna stop trying.

"stuff" happens and stuff breaks, I get that, but when the $hit hits the fan I would just rather not be stuck with a boat that ways 2k more than it needs to. pushing it away from rocks, if there is nasty wind pushing you against something, just more momentum to redirect.

I think the gravity fill is really cool set up, my only concern was draining when you couldnt move. I guess while your getting the pull in you could open the gates.I have the same concern with draining my ballast if my batteries die, Im $hit outta luck in that situation. Just was curious as to if they came up with a "just in case" measure.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-20-2010, 6:29 AM Reply   
i like the looks of the nose and butt on mine
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Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       07-20-2010, 9:03 AM Reply   
Nice Pics Ian!
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-20-2010, 9:34 AM Reply   
TWB rules! Ian, your boat is sick. I hope you hold onto this one!
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       07-20-2010, 9:38 AM Reply   
I want to hold on to this one, might not be in the cards though.
Old    Ty (wakeandsnow27)      Join Date: Jun 2004       07-20-2010, 10:04 AM Reply   
weird- a 2011 with 220 hours already.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/boa/1849783752.html
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-20-2010, 10:11 AM Reply   
Yep, that is one of Mike Schweene's camp boats, they were delivered in April. http://westcoastcamps.com/
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-20-2010, 10:13 AM Reply   
I heard that Rathy was getting a new 2011 so his 2010 F21 should be available soon for anyone that is on the east coast and wants a deal.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       07-20-2010, 10:27 AM Reply   
that is a smoking deal on that boat, it will sell fast.
Old    SamIngram            07-20-2010, 10:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
weird- a 2011 with 220 hours already.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/boa/1849783752.html
WOW!, that boat didn't exactly hold its value very well...

Last edited by SamIngram; 07-20-2010 at 10:37 AM.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-20-2010, 10:39 AM Reply   
Apparently, you don't know what F21's cost new. Also you think, that just maybe, West Coast Camps gets a pretty good deal on boats?

My buddy just bought a 2009 Mastercraft TT 196 for 28k with 250 hrs. Now that is depreciation.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-20-2010, 11:02 AM Reply   
so what joey c is saying is he wouldn't mind towing in a mastercraft or san or malibu but forget a 25' searay it weighs too much. he wouldn't want an MB on the chance hes wakeboarding with his ballast full and the boat breaks down near the rocks THEN THEE WIND PICKS UP[wouldn't be wakeboarding if its that windy] and pushes him into the rocks. JUST SAY YOU PREFER ANOTHER BOAT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY WHICH ONE. I own a tige and i ride behind a mb on tuesdays there are things i like about my boat better,but i do prefer the ballast system on the mb it's fast and this guys mb is 3 years old and he hasn't had any trouble.HAPPY BOATING EVERYONE!
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-20-2010, 11:22 AM Reply   
I understand what Joey is getting at...I would feel bad asking for a tow back with a fully weighted boat and do whatever is in my power to make it easier for the person towing my boat. Regardless some things you simply cannot control.

Joey, if your batts die you can still drain sacks as long as they are higher than the waterline. Simply create a "siphon hose" for that situation and store it away in the boat. All it takes is a hose with a fatsac connection. Connect to the sack and put the other end of the gunnel into the water. Press on the sack until the water moves through the hose (preferably clear to confirm this) and watch physics do the rest. The flow will be substantially slower than a pump but it gets the job done.
Old    Bhyatt (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-20-2010, 11:28 AM Reply   
Everyone is taking hits on resale right now regardless of brand. I would imagine financing is harder to get on a boat that is a couple of years old vs. buying new.

This is one of my first looks at an MB since about 2004 when I rode behind one with the 2 speed tranny - how did that work out btw?. This boat just seems plain jane. Graphics do look like something off of an RV. Dash looks like something that came out of the Mastercraft factory in 2001 - clarion radio, toggle switches, generic gauges. Only contemporary feel to this boat is the zero off and the pickle fork nose - which i think looks disgusting on any boat.

Thanks for the read. Interesting.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-20-2010, 11:29 AM Reply   
As long as you are not trying to tow the boat up onto plane, the difference in the amount of force required to move a boat with or without 2000 lbs of ballast is marginal and probably not even measurable. This is officially the most ridiculous argument ever posted on Wakeworld.

Joey, so what do you do with your lead if you break down? Do you start throwing it out into the lake? or require the people towing you to fork it over? If someone is truly concerned about this situation, they can go drill two holes and install a fitting for a ballast pump to pump the water out. I will keep my $100 it would cost to do so and spend it on gas money to ride longer, thanks.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-20-2010, 11:48 AM Reply   
So you are stating that retro is better than classic? I beg to differ.
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Old    Wakeboardad (wakeboardad)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-20-2010, 12:03 PM Reply   
Not a bad boat I must admit just hate the look of the tower and the throtle control, what would make this boat nice is snap in carpets.
Old    Mario (mdaijogo)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-20-2010, 12:44 PM Reply   
Pickle fork FTW!



Am I biased? Of course I am! It's my boat!

m-
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-20-2010, 3:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidmx View Post
I understand what Joey is getting at...I would feel bad asking for a tow back with a fully weighted boat and do whatever is in my power to make it easier for the person towing my boat. Regardless some things you simply cannot control.

Joey, if your batts die you can still drain sacks as long as they are higher than the waterline. Simply create a "siphon hose" for that situation and store it away in the boat. All it takes is a hose with a fatsac connection. Connect to the sack and put the other end of the gunnel into the water. Press on the sack until the water moves through the hose (preferably clear to confirm this) and watch physics do the rest. The flow will be substantially slower than a pump but it gets the job done.
Didnt think to make a siphon, would work tho. Ill keep that in mind. Thanks for at least seeing where Im coming from. Its just common courtesy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
As long as you are not trying to tow the boat up onto plane, the difference in the amount of force required to move a boat with or without 2000 lbs of ballast is marginal and probably not even measurable. This is officially the most ridiculous argument ever posted on Wakeworld.

Joey, so what do you do with your lead if you break down? Do you start throwing it out into the lake? or require the people towing you to fork it over? If someone is truly concerned about this situation, they can go drill two holes and install a fitting for a ballast pump to pump the water out. I will keep my $100 it would cost to do so and spend it on gas money to ride longer, thanks.
You must have missed the thread with Lon in it

Did you ever take physics? Understand how momentum works? The F23 weighs 4300lbs (dry weight) and the stock ballast is 2400lbs. The ballast is significant here, its more than 50% of the weight of the boat, 50+% is not marginal.

Lets deal with the values above, lets ignore the weight you will add from gas, people, cooler, gear, k?

So the formula for momentum is:
Momentum (P) = Mass (M) * Velocity (V)
P=MV
Here are all my values.
4300lbs = 1950.45kg Dry weight
2400lbs = 1088.62kg Ballast
4300lbs+2400lbs= 6700lbs Boat+ballast
6700lbs=3039.07kgs
10mph = 4.47 m/s



Boat dry weight drifting in 10mph(4.47 m/s) wind imparting optimum impulse.
(1950.45kg)(4.47m/s)= 8718.51 kg/m/s or 8718.51N

Boat with ballast tanks full with the same conditions about
(3039.07kg)(4.47m/s)=13584.64kg/m/s or 13584.64N

So compare the unweighted boats momentum to the weighted boats momentum
8718.51N vs 13584.64N Thats a pretty significant difference.

So lets say your boat is drifting towards rocks with the same conditions given above, and lets assume you weight 175lbs = 79.37kg and you want to stop your boat in 10ft=3.04m

We are going to call it an elastic collision, your hands are constantly touching the boat but your swimming and force is only exerted on the boat when you kick, AND this is assuming ALL the force you transfer is oriented correctly and perfectly parallel with water (dont get me started with trig and force diagrams)

Now lets deal with this in terms of Work and Energy
(Force)(Distance)= (1/2)(mass)(Velocity)^2
Kinetic Energy=(1/2)(mass)(velocity)^2
Force=(Mass)(acceleration)
unweighted boat
KE= (.5)(1950.45kg)(4.47m/s)^2=19485.87J

to stop your unweighted boat you will need to counter 19485.87J
so Fd=KE
(F)(3.04m)=-19485.87J
F=6495N to stop the boat in 10 ft
here is where 79.37kg you comes into play
6495N=(79.37kg)(a)
a=81.83 m/s/s


Weighted boat
KE=(.5)(3039.07kg)(4.47m/s)^2= 30361.68J
To stop your weighted boat you will need to counter the 30361.68J
(F)(3.04m)=-30361.68J
F=9987N to stop the boat in 10 ft
9987N=(79.37kg)(a)
a=125.83m/s/s


9987N(weighted)-6495N (unweighted)= 3492N
3492N additional force needed to stop the weighted boat.

125.83m/s/s(weighted)-81.83(unweighted)= 43.99m/s/s
43.99m/s/s additional acceleration needed to stop the weighted boat.

It is significant. I dont think I can break it down any more.
Granted you will have more people to help (if all help) your combined mass will go up needing less acceleration to stop the boat if you work together, but what I showed gives you a pretty good idea of this.
Old    Mario (mdaijogo)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-20-2010, 3:29 PM Reply   
Why did you use the F23? OP was showing the F21... :P
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-20-2010, 3:30 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
so what joey c is saying is he wouldn't mind towing in a mastercraft or san or malibu but forget a 25' searay it weighs too much. he wouldn't want an MB on the chance hes wakeboarding with his ballast full and the boat breaks down near the rocks THEN THEE WIND PICKS UP[wouldn't be wakeboarding if its that windy] and pushes him into the rocks. JUST SAY YOU PREFER ANOTHER BOAT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY WHICH ONE. I own a tige and i ride behind a mb on tuesdays there are things i like about my boat better,but i do prefer the ballast system on the mb it's fast and this guys mb is 3 years old and he hasn't had any trouble.HAPPY BOATING EVERYONE!
So if there is ANY chance of wind you will not be wakeboarding at all? So you go out, its nice, you get riding, ballast full, boat dies, wind starts picking up while your trying to get her running again, how is that far fetched in anyway?

I like the MB but you guys keep blowing the simple question I asked out of proportion. I like back up plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdaijogo View Post
Why did you use the F23? OP was showing the F21... :P
haha just go with it. Im not doing the math again! It still serves the same purpose as the example. Would turn out the same way if I used the F21, just scaled down numbers for the most part.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-20-2010, 3:53 PM Reply   
joey you are obviously educated. what are the odds you would be wakeboarding near rocks when your boat breaks down #1then the wind picks up faster than an educated man like you could throw out your box anchor[educated man would know to buy box anchor big enough for boat and ballast].i don't understand. i think you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning in a thunderstorm on a lake with a metal or aluminum tower on it. better not buy a boat with a tower unless you have a backup rubber suit.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-20-2010, 4:19 PM Reply   
The heavier boat will be less effected by the wind. No I was not a physics major, but I do know that additional weight means more wetted surface on the hull and that is what matters when it comes to a boat moving through the water. Try this for me. When you get out in your boat, look at your idle forward speed, then look at your idle forward speed with the ballast full. Notice a significant difference? No.

To answer your question. No there is not a back up system, there does not need to be one. Just like there is not one in your boat. Yet, when I get to the ramp I can pull the MB out and not worry about the ballast because it will drop out. And when you get to the ramp you will by siphoning your 6 ballast bags out.

Thanks, and I hope you get a chance to ride behind a boat with pure-vert in the near future. It looks like Centurion is picking it up for 2011 too. There is nothing better.
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-20-2010, 8:21 PM Reply   
This thread has turned completely stupid. Quit arguing about the stupid ballast! Someone already said it has a manual override... End of discussion!!

Mario- your boat looks great!
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-20-2010, 9:17 PM Reply   
WakeWorld has always been a bit of a "hot crowd." But lately it's gotten silly. So many of the current threads have "that guy" who digs in on some stupid issue that has little to do with the original thread and can't let it go. Just check out the pontoon boat thread... dudes are arguing now about music with swear words. One is even spewing religious hate. All this over a pontoon boat. Amazing.

Either Joey doesn't like MB and he's looking for petty reasons to knock the very thing everybody loves about it (the ballast), or he's one of those guys who just has to be right and have the last word. I suspect it's the latter... my evidence is that rediculous display of mathmatical equations. What is this... Good Will Hunting?

What's the over / under on how much time Joey killed at work while thinking throug that post? His boss must be proud.

Gotta love WakeWorld.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-20-2010, 10:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
joey you are obviously educated. what are the odds you would be wakeboarding near rocks when your boat breaks down #1then the wind picks up faster than an educated man like you could throw out your box anchor[educated man would know to buy box anchor big enough for boat and ballast].i don't understand. i think you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning in a thunderstorm on a lake with a metal or aluminum tower on it. better not buy a boat with a tower unless you have a backup rubber suit.
Big lake, lots of wind, or in a cove, so many factors man. where I go, half the lake is a canyon and is 100ft+ deep in places.

Come on now, I wouldnt go out during a storm, I check the weather We could go on for days about scenarios haha i didnt mean to piss everyone off guys!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfe View Post
WakeWorld has always been a bit of a "hot crowd." But lately it's gotten silly. So many of the current threads have "that guy" who digs in on some stupid issue that has little to do with the original thread and can't let it go. Just check out the pontoon boat thread... dudes are arguing now about music with swear words. One is even spewing religious hate. All this over a pontoon boat. Amazing.

Either Joey doesn't like MB and he's looking for petty reasons to knock the very thing everybody loves about it (the ballast), or he's one of those guys who just has to be right and have the last word. I suspect it's the latter... my evidence is that rediculous display of mathmatical equations. What is this... Good Will Hunting?

What's the over / under on how much time Joey killed at work while thinking throug that post? His boss must be proud.

Gotta love WakeWorld.
Why do you always rag on me man?
I just dont see why I had to be "that guy" in this thread. I was told my argument was probably the stupidest on wakeworld and to be honest that hurt my feelins. So I used the math I know, and took like 15 minutes to think up, and just used it to back myself up. Whats the harm there? I didnt come in here to bash on MB or anyone but its like you guys all teamed up and said how stupid I was, seems like thats how threads have been going on here.
At least try and see where someones coming from before you get pissed?



Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
The heavier boat will be less effected by the wind. No I was not a physics major, but I do know that additional weight means more wetted surface on the hull and that is what matters when it comes to a boat moving through the water. Try this for me. When you get out in your boat, look at your idle forward speed, then look at your idle forward speed with the ballast full. Notice a significant difference? No.

To answer your question. No there is not a back up system, there does not need to be one. Just like there is not one in your boat. Yet, when I get to the ramp I can pull the MB out and not worry about the ballast because it will drop out. And when you get to the ramp you will by siphoning your 6 ballast bags out.

Thanks, and I hope you get a chance to ride behind a boat with pure-vert in the near future. It looks like Centurion is picking it up for 2011 too. There is nothing better.
The wind effecting the heavier boat less is sort of true, but when given a large distance (depends on your lake I guess) to drift the wind will get you up to speed, but is the same reason why its harder to stop/move, get what I mean? It goes both ways. Simplest definition of momentum is basically an objects resistance to a change in speed. its cool how it all ties together, why i dig physics haha

Can you at least understand what Im getting at, like where im coming from? I will stop arguing, not looking to do that on wakeworld, and I REALLY dont wanna be "that" guy haha. I tried to not just argue and actually work physics in so it wasnt like i was some hothead just looking to argue. but the numbers was the best way I could explain it. I like the idea of the gravity fill, I really do but Im an engineer, I look at things and think how they can be improved. its just what I do. Didnt mean to come across as the captain of the deusch canoe

Last edited by ilikebeaverandboats; 07-20-2010 at 10:25 PM.
Old    Mario (mdaijogo)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-20-2010, 10:53 PM Reply   
Funny thing is that I am also an engineer and I bought the boat! BTW, did I mention that pickle fork boats are l337!!!!







Yes, blatant whoring of my boat.



Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-20-2010, 11:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdaijogo View Post
Funny thing is that I am also an engineer and I bought the boat! BTW, did I mention that pickle fork boats are l337!!!!







Yes, blatant whoring of my boat.



I wouldnt not buy one just cause of that, I would just mess with it, its what i do, you know how it is.

is that first one black or navy blue?? it looks sick with the tan interior. hows the surf wave with stock ballast?

Yes im contributing to the Hijack!!
Old    Mario (mdaijogo)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-20-2010, 11:15 PM Reply   
The black one is Mike Schwene (sp?) from West Coast Camps out at Lake McClure. I ran into him at the dock and took some of his crew to their houseboat. The blue and black F21 is mine. The surf wave looks great. We only have one video of the surf wave that is embedded on Facebook. Still trying to get the raw footage. I won't be seeing water for at least another 3 weeks. Final stages of knee healing.

I didn't by the boat because of the ballast. I bought it because of the uber l337 pickle fork...There were a lot of reasons to be honest.

m-
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-20-2010, 11:32 PM Reply   
Right on, they are growing on me. Id dig a solid colored one, like navy or royal blue. Long pocket hard lip? I know alex oon the shredstixx team surfs behind a B52 and has a monster wave.
Old    Hate2party (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       07-21-2010, 6:45 AM Reply   
pumps, hoses, sacs, impellars, switches who needs them.
Old    Jason Buffalow (buffalow)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-21-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
Not sure if you all know, but it you don't like the Pickle fork, they make the exact boat with a traditional nose called the widebody or team. Also the paint is 100% custom., So you can get all plain color or hard lines or whatever. My boat is all white with red flames just on the nose, not down the side. I'll throw some pics up soon.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-21-2010, 11:45 AM Reply   
I want to see that! Post em up.
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-21-2010, 12:04 PM Reply   
hey joey i didn't mean to offend you in any way but you sure are easy to get fired up. just relax we need guys with smarts like you.probably my fault i like to use logic and chance as part of discussion. hope we can get along better on other threads i was just playing didn't know you were serious.
Old    Colin P (PictureMeRollin)      Join Date: Apr 2010       07-21-2010, 12:21 PM Reply   
these are sweet boats.. im glad to see a boat with standard gauges, not the stupid lcd digital readouts that will look outdated in 3 years
Old    Adam Fullmer (adam4x4)      Join Date: Jan 2009       07-21-2010, 4:40 PM Reply   
I'M LOVING MINE!!!! Here she after getting the windows tinted, and one of my favorites for the front.
Attached Images
  
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-21-2010, 4:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
I want to see that! Post em up.
Jason's boat is SICK! Hopefully he will share some pics with you all soon!!
Old    Mario (mdaijogo)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-21-2010, 4:59 PM Reply   
That red F21 is meh..... As usual, another nice looking F21. I am really diggin' the tint job.

m-
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-21-2010, 7:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalow View Post
Not sure if you all know, but it you don't like the Pickle fork, they make the exact boat with a traditional nose called the widebody or team. Also the paint is 100% custom., So you can get all plain color or hard lines or whatever. My boat is all white with red flames just on the nose, not down the side. I'll throw some pics up soon.
Right you are... the B52 Team Wide Body is the same boat, hold the pickle. It's actually a few inches wider on the inside due to narrower gunnels...

On threads like these, I always like to whore out a few pics of my boat to prove that MB's don't all have swooshes or tribal flames. You can order one up however you please. That's the beauty of a small custom builder like MB. Mine even has a powder coated tower... all designed to match my tow rig and make clean up a breeze.










Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-21-2010, 11:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb4me View Post
hey joey i didn't mean to offend you in any way but you sure are easy to get fired up. just relax we need guys with smarts like you.probably my fault i like to use logic and chance as part of discussion. hope we can get along better on other threads i was just playing didn't know you were serious.
we're good man, no worries You cant ever tell when someones kidding for sure or not when its just text your reading, so Im at fault too. Im sorry too man, is this where we awkwardly hug....?
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-22-2010, 12:31 AM Reply   
I wonder how it would work if they could implement the pickle fork to actually benefit the wake, it would have to be changed a bunch hull wise, but would pretty much look the same from the sides. Basically set the boat up so there is more weight up front, or a horizontal hard ballast tank, in a specific location that will allow the boat to displace more water down and under, rather than out. Basically so the boat and ballast work better together, wouldnt be an issue since we all use ballast anytime we are doing anything wake oriented so there wouldnt be a huge trade off ya know? what do you guys think? The view of the MB pickle from the front made me think of it.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-22-2010, 5:10 AM Reply   
So like a Trimaran type setup? That is tricky because you adversely effect handling and ride quality. Also, you are adding a lot more buoyancy, which in turn requires even more ballast to get the displacement that you need to make a big wake. Not saying it can't be done, but no one has figured it out yet.
Old    Joe (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-22-2010, 10:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
So like a Trimaran type setup? That is tricky because you adversely effect handling and ride quality. Also, you are adding a lot more buoyancy, which in turn requires even more ballast to get the displacement that you need to make a big wake. Not saying it can't be done, but no one has figured it out yet.
just a thought, Im sure it could work but just would take some research and development. How sick would that be tho!?
Old    Preston Price (Preston)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-03-2010, 12:56 PM Reply   
For anyone that has rode on the F21, what is the wake like? I am no where near a dealer (Houston), so a demo ride is out of the question, but this boat has me very interested. I currently have a '05 Sanger V-215 that is weighted with about 3000 lbs of ballast that is what I ride behind most of the time, but occasionly I'll get out on a X-star. How does the F-21 wake compare to these boats? Does the F21 need additional ballast added to the stock 1800 lbs to put out a comparable or is the 1800 lbs enough? I would think it would need another 1000 lbs.
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-03-2010, 1:08 PM Reply   
I like the wake a lot. Stock the shape is like a HEAVILY weighted X-Star but smaller, not like factory ballasted X-Star as it has much more steepness than that. I have only ridden behind aV-215 a few times and it was a few years ago. I remember I liked the wake, but not as much as my Super Air at the time. The TWB/F21 is my all time favorite boat, period. I have been very content riding with the factory 1800 and previously rode with 2x more that that. I bet Jason Buffalow can give you better insight as to the differences to your Sanger. mbboatowners.com is a good resource to see more wake pics/video's etc.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       08-03-2010, 7:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston View Post
For anyone that has rode on the F21, what is the wake like? I am no where near a dealer (Houston), so a demo ride is out of the question, but this boat has me very interested. I currently have a '05 Sanger V-215 that is weighted with about 3000 lbs of ballast that is what I ride behind most of the time, but occasionly I'll get out on a X-star. How does the F-21 wake compare to these boats? Does the F21 need additional ballast added to the stock 1800 lbs to put out a comparable or is the 1800 lbs enough? I would think it would need another 1000 lbs.
All pics/videos taken with stock ballast. I don't even own any sacs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v651LFNUPCk&hd=1



Old    E (22vdrive)      Join Date: Apr 2010       08-04-2010, 1:43 PM Reply   
That's it I'm getting one any want to buy a 22ft supra?

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