Articles
   
       
       
Pics/Video
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WAKE WORLD HOME
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old    Bill Connell (mrawdtsi)      Join Date: May 2009       06-03-2010, 12:58 PM Reply   
Hi everyone.

Now that I think i have my Carb issues cleared up (pending test tonight) im curious how everyone keeps their amplifiers cool all day when parked.

I've got 2 amps in the boat, When the air temps reach 100ish here in Phoenix, the amps cut out and i have to let them cool off after a couple hours of playing. I dont have many options for location, currently they are under my steering wheel, with a Stinger cross flow fan on each.

Any idea how to cool these amps better? or am i kinda stuck due to location of amps/ambient air temps?

Kicker MX700.5
JBL Marine - forget model
Old    Jonathan B (espritv8)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-03-2010, 1:13 PM Reply   
I tried regular computer fans with a relay. I did work but i had to remove them, because the noise they made in the system was too loud.

Last edited by espritv8; 06-03-2010 at 1:16 PM.
Old    Jonathan B (espritv8)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-03-2010, 1:17 PM Reply   
I tried regular computer fans with a relay. I did work but i had to remove them, because the noise they made in the system was too loud.
Old    Razzman (razzman)      Join Date: Dec 2006       06-03-2010, 1:35 PM Reply   
Sounds like you need to devise a method to pull fresh air into the cavity. I run two Kicker ZX amps, 700.5 & 650.4 in the under glove box storage cavity and have never had them overheat even in 100+ temps but i also will pull the bow cushion on that side to allow fresh air into the area if i'm sitting more than an hour.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-03-2010, 1:40 PM Reply   
What all are they powering and how are the chnls wired? How are the amps mounted, are they mounted perpendicular or horizontally and are they mounted directly to a carpet cover surface.
Old    Bill Connell (mrawdtsi)      Join Date: May 2009       06-03-2010, 2:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
What all are they powering and how are the chnls wired? How are the amps mounted, are they mounted perpendicular or horizontally and are they mounted directly to a carpet cover surface.
The 700.5 is running 4 Polk 6.5"s on the tower, and 1 12" Alpine Type R. This amp is mounted under the steering wheel area, at an angle. I built a small wedge with plywood, cut out a hole in the center, so its basically a rectangle with a huge open cavity and mounted the amp to that.

The JBL marine amp runs 4 kicker 6.5" in boat speakers. 1 speaker per channel.

My headunit sends a signal to a Clarion 7band EQ (to control the fade between tower and boat) then the signal from the EQ to the amps.

Maybe some dryer hose duct work and some small 12v fans to push air into the area would work. Kind of ghetto, but it sucks when the music cuts out
Old    Newty (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       06-03-2010, 2:44 PM Reply   
I've used computer fans in tha past w/ no stereo noise issue. I bought the 5" ones from best buy. They even had LED's buit in. Super quiet fans.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-03-2010, 3:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrawdtsi View Post
The 700.5 is running 4 Polk 6.5"s on the tower, and 1 12" Alpine Type R. This amp is mounted under the steering wheel area, at an angle. I built a small wedge with plywood, cut out a hole in the center, so its basically a rectangle with a huge open cavity and mounted the amp to that.

The JBL marine amp runs 4 kicker 6.5" in boat speakers. 1 speaker per channel.

My headunit sends a signal to a Clarion 7band EQ (to control the fade between tower and boat) then the signal from the EQ to the amps.

Maybe some dryer hose duct work and some small 12v fans to push air into the area would work. Kind of ghetto, but it sucks when the music cuts out
Well, everything is running at 4 ohm, except maybe the Class D sub chnl, so thermal shutdown just doesnt sound like it would be an issue. Just want to toss this out, is it possible it's a low voltage shutdown?

Like Razzman stated, having fresh air pumped in and hot air pulled out would not hurt one bit, so give it a shot and see!
Old    Jonathan B (espritv8)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-03-2010, 3:39 PM Reply   
At any point if i connect a electrical motor to the acc outputs, i will hear it in the stereo. If you a way not to hear it, i would like to know!!
Old    Mikeski (mikeski)      Join Date: Aug 2003       06-03-2010, 5:49 PM Reply   
When you devise a fan system it is always better to pull the hot air from the amps like a car radiator fan pulls the air through. The air on the low pressure side of a fan is always cooler than the air on the high pressure side of a fan. Taking in 100 degree air, raising it to 110 then blowing it on an amp is not as effective as pulling 100 degree air down to 90 degrees as it passes over the amp cooling fins. (thermodynamics 101)

A good system is to fabricate some sort of cowling that allows air to be pulled over the amps heat sinks and then exhausted outside of the boat. You can even use a standard engine compartment blower mounted in the rear of the boat so the sound is away from the listener and sound system components. You can use the same ducthose the boat manufacturers use. These blowers can move quite a bit of air but on the downside they can be a bit noisy. A standard bimetallic roof attic fan switch can be used to control the fan automatically if you mount it in inside the amp's cowling.
Old    John Heath Lynch (rebelman10)      Join Date: Jun 2009       06-04-2010, 6:47 AM Reply   
The blower fan is what I use and it keeps mine very cool. Mike is right, I had the same problem and it was low voltage. I found out after I installed the blower fan! You will need to wire the fan direct to the battery further away as posible.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-04-2010, 6:49 AM Reply   
Bill-

Describe your power wiring to us, length, wire gage etc. It is easy to over-heat an amp if your power wire is too small, or if your battery bank is sagging down.

A brief simple explanation: these things are called power amps. We know the equation P=I*V where P is power, V is voltage, and I is current. Your amps are doing everything they can to make POWER. If your power wiring on the front-side of the amp is not up to snuff, you will experience voltage drop; the value for voltage V in the equation above will be lower than it should be. The amp is trying to keep power P constant, so the amp increases current, I to deliver the same power. Current is simply electrons flowing through the amp. You can make a friction analogy: with low voltage, you have more electrons moving though the amp, faster to try to make the same amount of power. More electrons means more friction, and therefore more heat. This is a very crude analogy, but it serves the purpose of pointing out that with increased current flow, you get more heat.

We can similarly point out that as your run time increases while sitting in party cove, there is a very real potential for the battery to start to sag. As a battery is depleted, it gets to a point where it begins to drop voltage. Just like in the example above, low voltage will cause an increase in current for a given power output, and the amp will try to pull that current to deliver its power. The same overheating can take place.

I know this seems contrary to what our brains would expect. We can easily rationalize that with small wire, with low battery power, that we will have less heat due to less "juice" flowing, but hopefully my VERY SIMPLE explanation above can help understand why this is usually not the case. Understand, I have taken a very simple path of explanation, in hopes that simple generalities will serve more folks. I know guys who can talk circles around my simple explanation, and can give certain examples where what I have shared is a gross over-simplification, but in general what I share is true.

Check your power wire, and lets make sure it is totally sufficient for the system. Then check to make sure you have enough battery bank to prevent voltage sagging. These two things will go a long way towards preventing overheating, especially if we discover any deficiencies.

Let us know!

Phil
Kicker

Last edited by philwsailz; 06-04-2010 at 6:51 AM.
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       06-04-2010, 6:57 AM Reply   
I've used the stinger fans in the past with good success. I run into similar issues, even with adequate wiring and voltage when the air tmep is 100+ and 100% humidity it's hard to keep anyhting cool, even in the shade.

http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/S...d/0/rid/123284
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-04-2010, 7:12 AM Reply   
Not to bag on your amps but the are the absolute worst technology in regards to a boat stereo system.

The work great in a car where the temp is somewhat regualted and the alternator is producing current to battery a very high majority of the time.

Your kicker and JBL amp are probably around 60% efficient. The other 40% of wasted energy is for the most part in the form of heat. I you couple this inefficency with the amps being in a closed compartment and the AZ heat, then you get the result you have posted about.

I know it is big cost m but there are more efficient and smaller chasis size amps out there with built in fans. Take a look at JL's, HD, Alpine PDX, Wetsounds Syn or Arc Audio KS. The arc audio KS's are over 80% efficient at 4 ohms. I have them in my boat in the texas heat and can run them all day without having to add secondary fans or open a compartment to let them breathe.

Also, if you are running your current amps and 2 ohms or 1 ohm.....they are really inefficient and you could probably fry some egg and bacon on them.
Old    Bill Connell (mrawdtsi)      Join Date: May 2009       06-04-2010, 7:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by philwsailz View Post
Bill-

Describe your power wiring to us, length, wire gage etc. It is easy to over-heat an amp if your power wire is too small, or if your battery bank is sagging down.

A brief simple explanation: these things are called power amps. We know the equation P=I*V where P is power, V is voltage, and I is current. Your amps are doing everything they can to make POWER. If your power wiring on the front-side of the amp is not up to snuff, you will experience voltage drop; the value for voltage V in the equation above will be lower than it should be. The amp is trying to keep power P constant, so the amp increases current, I to deliver the same power. Current is simply electrons flowing through the amp. You can make a friction analogy: with low voltage, you have more electrons moving though the amp, faster to try to make the same amount of power. More electrons means more friction, and therefore more heat. This is a very crude analogy, but it serves the purpose of pointing out that with increased current flow, you get more heat.

We can similarly point out that as your run time increases while sitting in party cove, there is a very real potential for the battery to start to sag. As a battery is depleted, it gets to a point where it begins to drop voltage. Just like in the example above, low voltage will cause an increase in current for a given power output, and the amp will try to pull that current to deliver its power. The same overheating can take place.

I know this seems contrary to what our brains would expect. We can easily rationalize that with small wire, with low battery power, that we will have less heat due to less "juice" flowing, but hopefully my VERY SIMPLE explanation above can help understand why this is usually not the case. Understand, I have taken a very simple path of explanation, in hopes that simple generalities will serve more folks. I know guys who can talk circles around my simple explanation, and can give certain examples where what I have shared is a gross over-simplification, but in general what I share is true.

Check your power wire, and lets make sure it is totally sufficient for the system. Then check to make sure you have enough battery bank to prevent voltage sagging. These two things will go a long way towards preventing overheating, especially if we discover any deficiencies.

Let us know!

Phil
Kicker
Phil,

Thanks for the analogy, this helped. More than likely, my Power wire is not big enough. I dont remember the gauge but its about the size of a sharpie... maybe 10ga? I will order up some 0/1 and see if that makes a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphy_smith View Post
Not to bag on your amps but the are the absolute worst technology in regards to a boat stereo system.

The work great in a car where the temp is somewhat regualted and the alternator is producing current to battery a very high majority of the time.

Your kicker and JBL amp are probably around 60% efficient. The other 40% of wasted energy is for the most part in the form of heat. I you couple this inefficency with the amps being in a closed compartment and the AZ heat, then you get the result you have posted about.

I know it is big cost m but there are more efficient and smaller chasis size amps out there with built in fans. Take a look at JL's, HD, Alpine PDX, Wetsounds Syn or Arc Audio KS. The arc audio KS's are over 80% efficient at 4 ohms. I have them in my boat in the texas heat and can run them all day without having to add secondary fans or open a compartment to let them breathe.

Also, if you are running your current amps and 2 ohms or 1 ohm.....they are really inefficient and you could probably fry some egg and bacon on them.
It was a budget system, as i dont have thousands to dump into amplifiers. I would love to put in a wet sounds system, but just cant swing it yet.

I will look into other amp alternatives, but am reluctant, as the amps ran just fine prior to the ambient temps reaching 100+

I am running 2 batteries on a perko, and have been able to run most of the day on one charge on my secondary battery before.

I think what im going to do is move my sub to the passenger side, and relocate my amps under the sterring wheel but vertically on that back wall. This should give them much more open air space.

This is the cheaper alternative until i can convince the wife i need better amps

The amps run in 4ohm in each channel. I did not want to drop the resistance to 2 in fear of overheating.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-04-2010, 8:23 AM Reply   
A couple other things to look at would be:

1.) positions of the amps. Is the sub amp below the speaker amp ( as you know heat rises and our sub's amp typically are pushed the hardest ad produce the most heat which could cause an amp above it to go out.

2.) heat sink. Are the amps poistion so that the heat sinks allow the heat to flow up and and out or does the heat from one heat sink flow to the next in line heat sink till it gets to the top.

3.) Put some fans in there and open the compartment up periodically to allow the amps to relase the pent up heat.

You can make your system work...just need to make some slights compensations for the heat.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       06-04-2010, 8:44 AM Reply   
Use one fan per amplifier. Fans will be far more effective when built into a shroud that covers a fair portion of the amplifier heatsink. WIthout a shroud most of the air is circulating around the fan rather than across the amplifiers.

Next, use a third fan to exchange air through the compartment. A 4" round louvered vent can act as an intake while a second vent serves as an exhaust. Use an adapter plate to the interior of one vent to mount a 2-inch fan. Or you can go with a larger vent, adapter and a 4 or 5-inch exterior fan. This is one option if your locker is fairly sealed.

With the right fans they run fairly noise-free.

Low voltage can also be at least part of the problem. Get a dedicated volt meter with a switch to run directly to the power source thereby circumventing the factory harness. You shouldn't try and operate much below 12 volts. If you cycle your batteries any lower they won't last as long.

Poor system tuning results in poor efficiency, unecessary current draw and excessive heat generation.

Ample power wire?

Kill the bass boost or equalization if applicable... On your iPod or downloads too.

Besides the volume setting these are a few of the areas you can control for improved thermal performance.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-04-2010, 11:26 AM Reply   
Listen to Dave, he knows his stuff.

BTW...David, saw the 2010 Malibu you just did the Bullet Install with LED's on...looks very nice.
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       06-05-2010, 1:03 AM Reply   
I have 3 amps I am working on installing in one of the storage compartments. Two are JL Class D amps and one is an Alpine PD. I have 4 cross flow fans blowing air over the amps with a thermal switch to kick on when the most used amp gets to a certain temp. If I still have problems, I will run a 4" duct to pull cool air into the area from the passenger area. I designed that into my set up so I could add it if need be.

For wiring, I ran 1/0 awg from the battery to the distribution and 4 awg from the distribution blocks to the amps. Same for the grounds.





Old    Jonathan B (espritv8)      Join Date: Dec 2009       06-05-2010, 8:39 AM Reply   
I have an alpine amp with voltage and temp indicators. The voltage on the amp doesn't look accurate, but temp seems okay. Around what temp should i start to worry about damaging the amp?
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-05-2010, 12:18 PM Reply   
Speaking of keeping amps cool., wouldn't mounting amps on metal promote heat abosorption causing the whole amp rock to get got???

I have never seen a full metal amp rack
Old    James (Silverbullet555)      Join Date: May 2010       06-05-2010, 1:01 PM Reply   
It's actually not metal. Diamond Plate Acrylic over starboard.
Old    Murphy Smith (murphy_smith)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-05-2010, 1:56 PM Reply   
Wow, it looks metal...Nice look
Old    Jordan E (mutau052)      Join Date: Jun 2010       06-06-2010, 10:00 AM Reply   
i have a blower motor hooked up with tubing - just like the engine bay.

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 6:02 AM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2012 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us