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Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-21-2010, 4:29 PM Reply   
Two days ago Andrew stuck his arm through the handle. Messed up some tendons, and created a hairline fracture in his arm.

Today he rode the first tour stop anyway and won his heat!

Straight gamer!
Old    Ryan Allison (devildog_ra)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-21-2010, 4:33 PM Reply   
hell yeah that shiz is crazy
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-21-2010, 7:11 PM Reply   
What a trooper! I did that last year... it sucks. Tore my brachial radialus muscle that runs from your bicep to your wrist. Still got the ball of muscle on my forearm... Fyi... I learned this afterward but if you tie an overhand knot in the rope as close to the handle as you can the rope should break before your arm will.
Old    Adam Silcio (adamsilcio)      Join Date: Oct 2007       05-21-2010, 7:25 PM Reply   
Yeah. And im loving his pro model bindings too. Hah!
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-24-2010, 11:49 AM Reply   
Ryan what? tie an overhand knot?
1st what is that?
2nd I don't see a spectra rope breaking before my arm does.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-24-2010, 4:20 PM Reply   
Gene, an overhand knot is the most basic knot you can tie. Left or Right hand over the other, and pull tight (or half of the square knot).

I have heard that a knot in a line weakens it significantly, but I am hesitant to believe that a spectra rope would break easily.
Old    John Marshall (JohnM)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-24-2010, 4:24 PM Reply   
What if it broke mid raley?

Oh *****!!!!
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-24-2010, 4:42 PM Reply   
Jeremy is correct. Tying a knot in any kind rope drastically reduces the ropes tensil strength, therefore making it break easier. The overhand knot reduces the ropes strength the most from what I hear. I have heard this theory before from people and I confirmed it with Kyle Schmidt last month at The Wakeboard Camp. All the ropes they use there have a knot tied in them for this reason and he accually showed me a handle that someone suck their arm through at camp where the rope snapped, and the person walked away with no serious injuries.

I can't garuntee that the rope will break with a knot in it, but I sure as hell can garuntee from experience that it wont if there is no knot.

John- Kyle also said they have done studies with the top pro's riding and (I can't remember the exact numbers) the most pressure while riding they could put on the rope was something like... say 5,000 lbs of force where the rope with a knot should break around like 12,000 and your arm at 18,000. (Please don't critique my numbers. I don't remeber what the real numbers were but you get the idea) The rope should only break if there is something majorly wrong and hopefully it should before your arm. And I was out yesterday and did 4 big raley's with a knot in my rope... But that would suck if it happened.

Gene attached is a picture of an overhand knot...
Attached Images
 

Last edited by ryanw209; 05-24-2010 at 4:49 PM.
Old    Jeff Mathis (bbsxkills)      Join Date: Dec 2008       05-24-2010, 5:02 PM Reply   
he's a beast.
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-24-2010, 5:42 PM Reply   
Sorry J-Rod for the major thread jack here. Adkison is the MAN!!

Here's a few pics of my arm through the handle incident...(sorry for the bad quality cell phone pics)
Attached Images
  

Last edited by ryanw209; 05-24-2010 at 5:44 PM.
Old    jesse anderson (swagg)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-26-2010, 5:03 AM Reply   
so i just got out of school last month and part of it was rigging and how to secure things with ropes steel cable and nylon straps a ropes strength is decrease by 50% if one knot is tied in it doesn't matter where. And this is just food for thought but even a rope bent into a 90 degree with a load on it is weakened by 25%.
hope this helps
Old    LEE DANEILS (hyperlite)      Join Date: May 2009       05-26-2010, 6:53 AM Reply   
same happened to a buddy of mine
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-26-2010, 8:42 AM Reply   
I have done this...well I mean put my arm through the handle - not the winning a pro heat part. Having endured that experience I can't imagine riding a couple of days later and riding well enough to win heats is just crazy.

I wouldn't have thought of putting a knot in a rope as a safety precaution, but it makes sense. I put a 5 foot poly section at then end of my handle for the tennis elbow shock and suspect that also reduces the line strength so that it might fail before the arm bones do. Any engineering students looking for a quick project to provide some real data on this???
Old    CWB Board Co. (thedoubleupkid)      Join Date: May 2008       05-26-2010, 9:38 AM Reply   
What do you guys think of this?

http://www.samsonsports.com/bullet_release.html
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       05-26-2010, 10:22 AM Reply   
Andrew.... get well soon, man.

Arm's through handles sucks. Probably the most painful thing I've done wakeboarding. I got to spend a night camping with my arm super swollen. No fun at all.
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-26-2010, 10:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoubleupkid View Post
What do you guys think of this?

http://www.samsonsports.com/bullet_release.html


Don't know about that thing. I would think it would come apart all the time, and not just when your arm gets stuck in the handle either.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-26-2010, 10:39 AM Reply   
Plus it's 99.00. That seems very steep for what the device is.
Old    Karl DeLooff (placidwaters)      Join Date: May 2010       05-26-2010, 10:50 AM Reply   
Here is my solution:
https://www.boarditup.com/shop/item....d=350&catid=29

It depends on an observer/operator to release the rope rather than a pin to shear. Do you really want all of that pressure on your arm before it breaks?
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-26-2010, 11:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by placidwaters View Post
Here is my solution:
https://www.boarditup.com/shop/item....d=350&catid=29

It depends on an observer/operator to release the rope rather than a pin to shear. Do you really want all of that pressure on your arm before it breaks?
I can't imagine this working for 99% of the wakeboard falls where the rider puts his hand through the handle. There is simply not enough time for a manual release. Even if you had an observer that watched the rider like a hawk, by the time an observer realized a rider has fallen with his arm through the handle the damage has already been done. That device might work if someone was tangled at start up but can't see it providing much safety beyond that.
Old    Karl DeLooff (placidwaters)      Join Date: May 2010       05-26-2010, 12:01 PM Reply   
It has worked at least 3-times in two seasons - both times on blown handle passes. We have released for face-plants as well. I don't want a head through the yoke.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-26-2010, 12:18 PM Reply   
I don't see that withstanding some of the loads (either of those devices actually) that a high caliber rider will put on the rope, and those are the riders more likely to put an arm through the handle. I also agree with BMartin, I pin for trick skiers a lot, and it's hard enough to always know exactly when they're going down on surface and small air tricks. To know that a rider is putting their arm through the handle and release in time seems near impossible. When my friend did it and messed his arm up bad, it happened on a landing, and no one would have seen it, knew it was going to happen or anything. He fell, and then there was the huge tug on the rope, and the rope whip bounced back towards the boat. So you have someone observing the rider at all times with that release line in hand? I would agree on the head through the handle issue. I think that's a future problem that we haven't seen the effects of yet. Jumpers have moved to small handles for that exact reason, and most college competitions should only allow those small triangle handles. A K-State girl had a very bad accident where she fell forward and head went into the triangle.

If someone has that video of Shane putting his arm through the handle, then realizing it with big eyes, and pulling it out, that's a good vid!
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-26-2010, 12:26 PM Reply   
Also, from that website:

Quote:
Finally, if you are a kneeboarder riding in AKA (American Kneeboard Association) tournaments, you must use a release if you are performing a 540 or greater. This is the only release of its type
That is kind of sad for the kneeboarders.
Old    CWB Board Co. (thedoubleupkid)      Join Date: May 2008       05-26-2010, 1:02 PM Reply   
I'm getting a sample - but yeah it seems like it could cause more trouble than good. We will see.
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-26-2010, 10:27 PM Reply   
Yea I agree that there won't be enough time for a manual release. I did mine on a failed hs fs 3. Got off axis and dropped the handle on the way down but my arm went through it when I hit the water. The damage was done instantly. The pin design could work if they have the engineering right. How about just making a removeable piece of canvas or something that can attach to the handle and fill the majority of the open space in the triangle?
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-01-2010, 6:27 AM Reply   
A slalom skier lost their life last year after a head going through the handle. There is now a big push to encourage these to be used, especially with the shorter line lengths better skiers will get into, where they will cut back into a slacked line, and off balance.
http://arm-guard.com/

I'm sure they could make larger ones for wakeboard handles
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-01-2010, 9:03 PM Reply   
That's exactly what I was thinking of. I'm sure it would work good and be cheap to make.
Old    Ahren Benziger (azwakeYO)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-01-2010, 10:00 PM Reply   
My friend put his hand through the handle recently and has actually quit trying to progress cause of it. it hurt his tendons and fractured his arm. he was using my rope, which my sponsor had given me a week prior. I dont know if im being a sucker, but im gonna go tie a knot in my rope right now.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-01-2010, 10:27 PM Reply   
yep, I am going to tie a knot in my line as well. Where on the line is everyone putting their knot at? closer to the handle, mid-line, or closer to the attachment loop(s)?
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-01-2010, 10:34 PM Reply   
I was told to tie it as close to the handle as possible so mine is tied about 6" above where the handle line attaches to the mainline.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-02-2010, 11:26 AM Reply   
does the knot go in the mainline close to the handle attachment, or on the handle line segment?
Old    Ryan (ryanw209)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-02-2010, 5:46 PM Reply   
I put mine on the mainline.
Old    CWB Board Co. (thedoubleupkid)      Join Date: May 2008       06-02-2010, 5:54 PM Reply   
Yup - if you put a knot in your line it will probably break upon a high load. However after a lot of use it will destroy the line and break upon a much lower load. Just an FYI, and it will not be covered by warranty. But I hear ya - might be better safe then sorry fellas!

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