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Old    adam (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-03-2010, 4:33 AM Reply   
Well i had some bad luck this weekend. A couple weeks ago I changed all of my fluids in my supra. After changing the fluids I ran the boat on the hose and rechecked the oil and everything looked good. I took the boat to the lake house this weekend and I put the boat in the water and cranked it up and was idling around to let it warm up and recheck all fluids. When checking the oil I noticed water in the oil. I immediately idled back to the dock as to not cause anymore damage that was already done. I pulled the boat back out and drained the oil and ran it on the hose again and I was still getting water in the oil. I then drained the oil once more and put fresh oil in and left it at that and didnt crank it again. I just didnt want to leave the oil with the water in the engine. The boat only has appox 225 hrs on it. It is the 5.7 tbi assault engine. I have had no issues in the past with it. I hope it is not to serious but I did notice on my insurance that I have a Freeze State - Ice and Freezing Endorsment. Does this mean my insurance will cover it if it comes down to freeze damage? I did winterize my boat and have never had a problem in the past. My boat stays under a shelter that is covered on the sides and the rear and also has a cover on the boat. I have never had a problem in the past but we had a long freezing streak here in north florida this year. Im hoping it is just a gasket and not a major engine problem. I dropped my boat off at lake area watwersports in melrose florida but am going to call around to some other dealers today. How does everyone like watersports of central florida?
Old    CONSIGLIEREG8R (consigliereg8r)      Join Date: Aug 2009       05-03-2010, 4:52 AM Reply   
I don't think it got that cold for long enough. I live in the Panhandle of FL but I did put a light in my engine compartment. I don't know anything about the place in Melrose--heck I didn't know Melrose had grown that much to get an inboard boat place. You really aren't that far from all the boat shops in Orlando. I bought from Orlando Nautiques due to their reputation (even up here) but the Mastercraft place has good service as well.
Old    adam (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-03-2010, 5:15 AM Reply   
Thanks CON. Lake area watersports is actually a nautique and moomba/supra dealer. I live in jacksonville but have a lake house in orange springs which is about 15-20 minutes from melrose. I am thinking about picking it up and taking it to orlando after I give them a call this morning.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-03-2010, 5:34 AM Reply   
Did you fill the engine with antifreeze when you winterized it ? If you just drained it you can still have a pocket of water. If it gets cold enough to freeze puddles outside its also cold enough to crack a block or manifold. You should check with your insurance and make sure you have the freeze coverage.
Old    adam (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-03-2010, 6:22 AM Reply   
Thanks. I spoke with Boat US this morning and I do have the ice and freeze protection. Im glad they took care of me and put this on my policy. They said once the dealer determines what it is all they have to do is send me an estimate for repair with parts and labor break down and Boat US will authorize them to begin the work and I will just pay my 300.00 deductible.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-03-2010, 7:52 AM Reply   
There is a possibility that it's the head gasket, which would not be something that is covered by 'freeze' insurance.
Anyway, it's really good you caught it. Most would not.
Old    adam (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-03-2010, 8:05 AM Reply   
What do most dealers charge for labor rates per hour? The place it is at now is 100/hour. Wat is the estimated time to change a head gasket? I kow they have to remove a lot to get to that point.
Old    Fred (olmoomba)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-03-2010, 1:01 PM Reply   
Rates range from $90-$100/hr. Go to your local auto parts store and see if they offer a "loaner" cylinder compression tester. If they do, you can check ur head gaskets that way. If they don't offer a loaner, that tester is under $30, another tool for the bottom of the tool box.
Old    H2O Pro Accessories (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       05-03-2010, 1:03 PM Reply   
I seem to have just the opposite of your problem..... I have oil in my water......
Old    CONSIGLIEREG8R (consigliereg8r)      Join Date: Aug 2009       05-03-2010, 6:07 PM Reply   
Off post but I learned to ski at lake Santa Fe behind a wooden river boat with a 75 Kiekhaefer Merc that did not have neutral. Saw some old 8mm film of it the other day.

Good luck. I am getting Boat US next year.
Old    Nate (norcalmalibu)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-03-2010, 9:09 PM Reply   
head gaskets typically don't go out in marine applications unless you have a closed cooling system. It could be a number of things but an unpressurised engine the likely hood of a head gasket is slim.
Old    adam (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-12-2010, 3:41 AM Reply   
UPDATE


Well after doing testing adn narrowing it down they came to the conclusion that the head gasket needed to be replaced. While doing this they visually inspected the head on the starboard side of the engine. Well after it was all put back together and ran on the hose it is still getting water in the oil once the boat has warmed up. They now believe the head has a crack in it that was not visible so they are sending it to get magna fluxed. SO i guess even here in florida I am going to have to start using anitfreeze when I winterize. Who would have thought. They are atleast saying it would be considered freeze damage if the head or block has a crack in it so my insurance will take care of it.
Old    Matthew Bird (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-12-2010, 6:48 AM Reply   
That's crazy, but good to hear that insurance is going to cover you.
Old    Bill S (93rx7)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-13-2010, 8:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03suprassv View Post


SO i guess even here in florida I am going to have to start using anitfreeze when I winterize. Who would have thought. They are atleast saying it would be considered freeze damage if the head or block has a crack in it so my insurance will take care of it.
Just an FYI, pulling your drain plugs at the end of the year is in no way winterizing your boat.


You said in the first post you had a long run of freezing temps. That + leftover water in the block = cracked block.

Very lucky your insurance is covering owner negligence.
Old    adam (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-13-2010, 9:54 AM Reply   
Bill, Thanks for your comment. Maybe you should keep it to yourself.

I did more then just pull the plugs and drain the engine. I fogged the engine and the cylinders, drained the risers and the muffler, pulled the hoses off the water pump and removed the water impeller. Drained the water out of my v-drive. I did everything that I could do except run antifreeze in the engine. Which is very seldom done here in Florida.

I told the dealer everything I had done and he told me there was nothing more that I could do.

Please post a list of things you would do to winterize since I am negligent in my winterizing process.
Old    S Dub (sdub)      Join Date: Jan 2003       05-13-2010, 10:05 AM Reply   
^^^he said he winterized it. how do you get owner negligence outta that. plus he doesnt even know if freeze is what caused his problem.
small amounts of left over water will not crack a block.
Old    Bill S (93rx7)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-14-2010, 8:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03suprassv View Post
Bill, Thanks for your comment. Maybe you should keep it to yourself.

I did more then just pull the plugs and drain the engine. I fogged the engine and the cylinders, drained the risers and the muffler, pulled the hoses off the water pump and removed the water impeller. Drained the water out of my v-drive. I did everything that I could do except run antifreeze in the engine. Which is very seldom done here in Florida.

I told the dealer everything I had done and he told me there was nothing more that I could do.

Please post a list of things you would do to winterize since I am negligent in my winterizing process.

You missed the big one.. the one step that would for sure 100% protect you in the event of a freeze.

Running anti-freeze through the cooling system.

Freezing temps in the forecast = need antifreeze or something bad is going to happen.


"I told the dealer everything I had done and he told me there was nothing more that I could do."

Old    Bill S (93rx7)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-14-2010, 8:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdub View Post
^^^he said he winterized it. how do you get owner negligence outta that. plus he doesnt even know if freeze is what caused his problem.
small amounts of left over water will not crack a block.
Yes, it will. How do you think his block cracked over the winter? Little gremlins with a hammer in there?
Old    Seahawks #1 Fan Robert T (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-14-2010, 8:49 AM Reply   
hello! he said he had a cracked head.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-14-2010, 9:07 AM Reply   
Bill S = Dick

Adam, good luck and keep us posted.
Old    adam (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-14-2010, 10:05 AM Reply   
99% of the dealers here in Florida do not use anti freeze when they winterize boats. We just dont have those kinds of winters here. well we did this year. I am meeting with the boat us guy tomorrow at the dealership to get things squared away. I will post back on monday when I am back in town.
Old     (insuranceman)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-14-2010, 11:44 AM Reply   
i am now on my 3rd inboard. live in oklahoma where it gets cold in the winters. we were well under 28 degrees for over 3 weeks. i have never used anti freeze in the past and have always drained the block, manifolds, heater and ballast. after draining everything i tow the boat for a couple miles to knock any remaining water out of the block and so forth. to date never had any issues.
Old    S Dub (sdub)      Join Date: Jan 2003       05-14-2010, 12:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 93rx7 View Post
Yes, it will. How do you think his block cracked over the winter? Little gremlins with a hammer in there?
I think you got little gremlins between the ears.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-14-2010, 2:27 PM Reply   
I broke a idler pulley while running and overhaeted, which caused a hydrolock, and my boat sucked up water thru the exhaust. Found a trace of water mixed in my oil. Drained the oil and put new in and been fine since. If you pull the lowest drain on the block you should get all the water out. Small amounts of water should not crack your block. I live in Washinton state where everyone knows it gets very cold here, and been a boat owner for 15 years, and never cracked a block yet. I winterize my own boat, and do not use any anti-freeze. Guess I'm just lucky huh ? Bill?
Old    Craig F (craig_f)      Join Date: Feb 2008       05-14-2010, 8:26 PM Reply   
No, not lucky, you just didn't feed the gremlins!
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       05-14-2010, 8:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 93rx7 View Post
You missed the big one.. the one step that would for sure 100% protect you in the event of a freeze.

Running anti-freeze through the cooling system.

Freezing temps in the forecast = need antifreeze or something bad is going to happen.


"I told the dealer everything I had done and he told me there was nothing more that I could do."

Antifreeze is not in the Indmar owners manual, which ought to clear him from the negligence assertion. Just sayin'.
Old    Bill S (93rx7)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-17-2010, 8:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyv420 View Post
I broke a idler pulley while running and overhaeted, which caused a hydrolock, and my boat sucked up water thru the exhaust. Found a trace of water mixed in my oil. Drained the oil and put new in and been fine since. If you pull the lowest drain on the block you should get all the water out. Small amounts of water should not crack your block. I live in Washinton state where everyone knows it gets very cold here, and been a boat owner for 15 years, and never cracked a block yet. I winterize my own boat, and do not use any anti-freeze. Guess I'm just lucky huh ? Bill?
What did your long rambling about your boat overheating have to do with anything? Great story... tell it again sometime.

And you being in Washington should know that even small amounts of trapped water can do serious damage. Keep doing what you're doing.. I don't care. But don't come crying to this forum when you crack a block.

I have been a boat owner for over 20 years, and use anti-freeze every winter when I winterize. Guess what, no cracked blocks! I have seen the repercussions of people that just pull the drain plugs and expect everything to be ok. Like the thread starter here, they end up cracking their blocks. Freeze plugs dont save you at all. I'm not sure why all of you are coming in to defend this person. He didn't put antifreeze in his motor. Weather turned, had extended periods of freezing temps. Block cracked. Pretty cut and dry. Sorry if you think I'm a dick but I'm just stating facts.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-17-2010, 2:20 PM Reply   
Your an *******! (bill) I never called you a dick, and by the way i was just sayin guess i'm lucky huh? Wether it be luck or not, I have never cracked a block. just giving a senario about water and oil. By the way get a real wakeboard boat, freakin amatuer! And believe me I would not be cryin about somethin that would have been my own fault. GET A LIFE!!!
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-17-2010, 4:22 PM Reply   
I agree with Bill about antifreeze. If you just drain the water there is always a chance of engine damage if you get a pocket of trapped water. Another reason I use antifreeze is to prevent rust formation inside the block. I want all the gaskets, hoses and water pump bearing to stay wet and lubricated. I dont see the benefit of letting them dry out every winter. I have never heard of a antifreeze filled engine suffering freeze damage. I feel for the cost of a couple gals of antifreeze its just cheap insurance.
Old    Greg Hodgin (eccpaint)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-18-2010, 6:01 AM Reply   
Running antifreeze is definately the best thing, there is no doubt about that. I think that being called negligent for doing everything except antifreeze is pushing it. I have been a boat owner since 1985. I drain everything, spray some WD 40 in some key areas and that's it. I have never had a freeze issue. I am not saying don't use antifreeze, like I said earlier it is definately the best thing to do.

Am I doing all I could? No.
Am I negligent? No.
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-18-2010, 7:26 AM Reply   
I can't think of a single place in an engine's cooling jackets where a small amount of water would be restricted enough to not expand to the empty, less resistant open space of the jacket and crack a block when it froze; especially in Florida where it was probably not below 30 for more than a day. Water doesn't get to 32 degrees and then POW....it all freezes and expands. Some of the water may not even freeze until temps well below 32. Once water freezes it expands about 9%, from there it actually shrinks.
Old    Bill S (93rx7)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-18-2010, 7:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyv420 View Post
Your an *******! (bill) I never called you a dick, and by the way i was just sayin guess i'm lucky huh? Wether it be luck or not, I have never cracked a block. just giving a senario about water and oil. By the way get a real wakeboard boat, freakin amatuer! And believe me I would not be cryin about somethin that would have been my own fault. GET A LIFE!!!
Telling me to get a life while you go through my posts to find out what kind of boat I have? Kind of contradicting yourself there. And I would get a 'real' wakeboard boat if my #1 priority in life was wakeboarding. It's not, so my other priorities come first.. sorry to disappoint you. At least I care enough about my boat to winterize it properly. Instead of driving around like a retard with all the drain plugs out thinking your doing something you could just buy a couple gallons of antifreeze and do it the right way, freakin amateur!
Old    Bill S (93rx7)      Join Date: Jan 2010       05-18-2010, 7:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by eccpaint View Post
Running antifreeze is definately the best thing, there is no doubt about that. I think that being called negligent for doing everything except antifreeze is pushing it. I have been a boat owner since 1985. I drain everything, spray some WD 40 in some key areas and that's it. I have never had a freeze issue. I am not saying don't use antifreeze, like I said earlier it is definately the best thing to do.

Am I doing all I could? No.
Am I negligent? No.
I just come from a very 'preventative' background. We started the boat early this year and there was temps in the forcast for low 30s a couple weeks later and we were about to re-winterize the boat again. Found a place to store it in doors for the overlap. Just didn't want to have to pull the motor out of the boat again. Sorry for calling you negligent but up here it is exactly what the insurance company would have told me if I was in the same situation.
Old    adam (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-18-2010, 8:07 AM Reply   
This year in florida we had a freeze that lasted about 10 days. By which I mean it did not get above freezing even during the day. Its not common for florida but it did happen. Next year as an extra precaution I will use antifreeze because it does make since but here in florida even the dealerships do not use it. 99% of the time there is no reason to. I could understand it if I lived up north but here our boats are only down for a couple months and then we are back on the water.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-18-2010, 8:11 AM Reply   
ya I guess I did contradict myself didn't I? Thanks for that little bit of info. Calling people retard is not nice these days. And ok i'll take back the wakeboard boat statement, only because it was out of line. But you started the bashing and I just had to respond (shouldn't have). Hope to see you on the lake sometime 93rx7
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       05-18-2010, 12:27 PM Reply   
I don't put antifreeze in mine for winter storage. I do drain the water while the block is hot which is hard on the hands but the warm metal dries better than cold.
I also trailer around some with the plugs open to slosh out any pockets that might be holding water, immediately after draining everything.
It does get cold here but it normally won't stay below freezing for long if it's summer.
There is nothing wrong with adding propylene glycol (RV) antifreeze to your boat over the winter. I just don't bother.
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       05-18-2010, 12:41 PM Reply   
Back to more civilized conversation: So the problem was not a cracked block, but a busted head?

So am I right to understand this is not caused by freeze damage anyway?
Old    S Dub (sdub)      Join Date: Jan 2003       05-18-2010, 1:13 PM Reply   
I would like to know , for those that us antifreeze, how do you add it? actually what i really wanna know is, do you drain the motor of all water first, then add the antifreeze, or just run it thru with w/o draining the motor.

my other thought is, if its a MUST DO step, why does the Indmar manual not ever mention it once in the winterizing section?
Old    Steve Oh (olskooltige)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-18-2010, 1:15 PM Reply   
I think that's what happened tall.
Old    adam (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-19-2010, 3:10 AM Reply   
The dealer called me today and said that my heads are good accroding to the machine shop after they were magna fluxed. So now they need to look more into the engine. They originall said one cylinder on the starboard side had low compression so that meant it was the head gasket. They have now replaced the riser gaskets, manifold gaskets, head gaskets and now had the heads inspected. I dont know much about engines but what else could it be now other than the block itself? Is there a way to test the block with out removing it from the boat or test each cylinder for cracks? This is becoming a long process. I hoped to have teh boat back by memorial day weekend at the latest but that isnt going to happen now.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-19-2010, 5:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdub View Post
I would like to know , for those that us antifreeze, how do you add it? actually what i really wanna know is, do you drain the motor of all water first, then add the antifreeze, or just run it thru with w/o draining the motor.

my other thought is, if its a MUST DO step, why does the Indmar manual not ever mention it once in the winterizing section?
I drain all water then add 50/50 antifreeze in through the raw water hose . The complete instructions can be found in the PCM manual page 38 for my 89 351 and page 80 for my 08 350
both manuals can be found on the Correct Craft Fan website. I dont know about Indmar engines I have never owned one.

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