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Old     (calummoore)      Join Date: Nov 2007       05-16-2010, 12:48 AM Reply   
I just want to express the disappointment i have with Company wakeboards product and service.

I bought an ex demo Company wakeboard which was in very good condition from a shop here in Brisbane, Australia. I had it for about 3 months and rode it only 3 times before the Australia day weekend (January 26). I was happy with the board so far, not stoked but happy enough for the price. I went for an early ride and while getting up (approx 18mph) i caught a weak back edge while fooling around.

I was shocked that when i resurfaced that i had ripped the boot off the board. Upon closer inspection the insert had ripped out of the board which caused the base plate to snap. I took the board back to the shop and being ex demo i didn't expect a warranty. However being from such a weak fall i expected at least an alternative to help fix the board and a new base plate. All of which i was happy to pay for. The shop owner was shocked that the inserts had been moulded individually like they did on old boards and not the new way of when they are all joined to avoid them ripping out.

After months and months of stuffing around and lots of phone calls from the shop owner (who did a great job) he told me that it was practically impossible to get a new base plate for the board and company had nothing to offer. I was shocked. I sent the Company warranty section an email asking what alternatives there are for me to get a new base plate so i can actually ride this board and to let them know how disappointed i was. This was almost 3 weeks ago and i haven't had a reply back yet.

So this leaves me where? I have a useless board which i haven't ridden since January which has meant i have only ridden once since then on a mates board. There is no way i can afford a new setup and from what i'm told this board is only good for the bin now.

I bought this board to give a new company an opportunity and was hoping to be stoked with it. Yet all i'm left with is disappointment.

Sorry for the long rant but i thought it was fair to let people know that if you buy a Company board and have an issue do not expect help from them at all.

Calum Moore
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Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-16-2010, 3:10 AM Reply   
you bought a used board. most companies aren't obligated to warranty a used board.

i'm curious: was the reason for your posting this in here in hopes of company hooking you up w/ a new deck, even though the board you bought was used?
Old     (calummoore)      Join Date: Nov 2007       05-16-2010, 3:54 AM Reply   
I never wanted a warranty. I clearly said that i didn't expect one and i was happy to pay for any repairs or new parts.

And honestly no it wasn't. Bagging a company for a new deck does not interest me. I posted this because i was unhappy with companies service. Negative feed back is an important part of any business.

When i buy a product, regardless of what it is, used or new i expect it to last more than 3 rides regardless of how much it was ridden while on demo. And if it does happen to break. I expect support from the people that have made it/supplied it to me.
Old     (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       05-16-2010, 5:25 AM Reply   
Why don't you use the four hole mounting system?? Should fix all your problems.

and the reason for no insert pack like a normal modern board it that you'll get a huge stiff part of the board and it defeats the purpose of a flex board. I believe slingshots are the same (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

Last edited by kristian; 05-16-2010 at 5:28 AM.
Old     (melvinator)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-16-2010, 6:15 AM Reply   
I just bought 2008 slingshot bindings to put on my company board and I have my old 2 hole baseplates I don't need if they will work for you. I thought someone told me companys bindings were made by slingshot. Maybe more of an expert can chime in here, if my 2-hole base plates will fit your boots I will send them to you. I know you said you ripped out an insert, so maybe you will have to ride one hole wider or narrower??? Maybe someone on here has a 4-hole from a set company bindings they would be willing to give/sell you? If mine work for you shoot me an message with your address and I will send them out monday. Good luck
Old     (homedawg678)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-16-2010, 6:32 AM Reply   
Ya, can't you just take that baseplate off and mount it on the four hole mount?
Old     (wakerider017)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-16-2010, 6:43 AM Reply   
Can't really blame the insert for pulling when the binding is only held down at one point... You can certainly blame the base plate for failing though.. Sucks!

& like the guys said, do you not have the 4-hole base plates?
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-16-2010, 7:18 AM Reply   
Originally Posted by calummoore View Post
I never wanted a warranty. I clearly said that i didn't expect one and i was happy to pay for any repairs or new parts.

And honestly no it wasn't. Bagging a company for a new deck does not interest me. I posted this because i was unhappy with companies service. Negative feed back is an important part of any business.

When i buy a product, regardless of what it is, used or new i expect it to last more than 3 rides regardless of how much it was ridden while on demo. And if it does happen to break. I expect support from the people that have made it/supplied it to me.
Just some perspective, and I think it's great that you posted your situation and what happened, that's what a lot of people come here for is how product holds up, etc. I would honestly rather someone else go through it and have to experience it than me, but warn me about it. Titling the thread what you did, however, makes it sound like you're just bashing, and people like Joe are just going to try and find something to call out. Titling it, Company baseplate broke, or something simple, not bashing the company in the thread title, would have been a slightly better approach. Again, thanks for the info. Used or not, product needs to hold up.
Old     (irishrider92)      Join Date: Jun 2009       05-16-2010, 9:40 AM Reply   
You could try sell it or change your stance. If only 1 of the inserts gone then it sounds like its still useable. And the baseplate breaking should be covered under the binding warranty shouldn't it?
Old     (bogartsomeday)      Join Date: Mar 2009       05-16-2010, 10:02 AM Reply   
I dont really know how the ss and company baseplate systems work so i couldnt really help you with a solution. Like A-dub said, people like Joe are just obviously searching to "call-out" which to be candid and honest, its very very often that you find someone doing that on this forum. So in regards to you posting this thread, I do think that it is great that you are making the wake community aware of your situation. People can slam you all day on here saying its a used wakeboard and whatnot but fact of the matter is, Company hasnt given you a response or reason why they wouldnt be able to help you, or even respond with helping you and backing their product. Like you said Calum, its a part of business and if a company doesnt want negative theings said about their customer service, then they better stay on top of informing the customer of how they can or why they cant help. Campany Wake hasnt done that for you. You are an unhappy customer and i think your title of the thread is ok imo. You said you are "disappointed", NOT "Company wakeboards suck!!" or, "Dont ever buy Company boards!". Saying your disappointed isnt bashing a company. People can get too critical and thats where you find those on here that judge a thread rather than help give some credible input or advice on the situation. I wish I could help ya out Calum. I'd just say buy a blem board from last year cause they're cheap but you said you cant afford to buy a board. Good luck
Old     (dohboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-16-2010, 11:48 AM Reply   
It sucks it broke. I know I would be upset. But what is worse is I would expect the company that I bought it from to at least get back in touch if I contacted them. Even if it was to just say sorry its not under warranty. This is the stuff that will make you buy again from that company(no pun intended) or go to another brand.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-16-2010, 12:06 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by behindtheboat View Post
and people like Joe are just going to try and find something to call out.

i didn't try and find something to call out. he bought a used board. even worse, he bought a DEMO board, meaning that shiat probably wasn't cared for.

Originally Posted by behindtheboat View Post
Used or not, product needs to hold up.
it was a DEMO board.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-16-2010, 12:12 PM Reply   
I'm with Joe... if you want to save some pennies right of the bat going with a demo, don't expect a new board.

Its like a rental car.... and anyone who has gotten a rental sure as hell wouldn't BUY one from a rental company, because you know what happens to them... they're beat to ****.

And if Company was to warranty it I would be willing to bet everyong would just buy DEMO Company boards, bust them, then send it in for a new one.... and company would be out of business
Old     (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-16-2010, 12:43 PM Reply   
Again, he's not looking for a warranty guys, he's trying to find out what he can do to pay for repairs without buying a new deck. Stop talking about this like he's looking for a new board for free. He's said multiple times now that he was willing to pay for the fix, but Company never responded. That's why he's disappointed.

It's possible that your email found it's way to a spam box or something similar, or for some reason or another didn't make it to where it was supposed to go.

Just remember guys, this isn't like that one dude who didn't want to drill holes in his board he had to warranty with Ronix so that he could sell it and still get the warranty board... This is a legit annoyance at not receiving support for a broken product, when he's saying he's willing to pay for the replacement parts and what not.
Old     (mikeym)      Join Date: Jul 2008       05-16-2010, 12:54 PM Reply   
It is very surprising that you did not hear back from them, the times I have talked to Colby at Company Wake, he has been awesome!
Old     (calummoore)      Join Date: Nov 2007       05-16-2010, 1:26 PM Reply   
Thanks for the support guys. I'm glad alot of you can see that all i'm after is a bit of help. Not free products.

I only rode the board as it came so i had no idea about the 4 hole inserts. A guy on an australian wakeboarding site has offered to sell me some so i think that should solve the problem. And again i am quite happy with the product overall just not so much with the service. That is the reason i posted 'disappointment' in my title.

Thanks Melvinator for the offer mate but i wouldn't expect you to send them down to Australia for me.
Old     (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-16-2010, 1:30 PM Reply   
Company is brand new. JS is still ironing out bugs.

I have been wakeboarding for many years, worked in the industry for years, and have YET TO SEE one manufacturer who's product does not break from time to time.

These things aren't indestructible.

Not sure if you let the shop make all the phone calls but I would suggest calling Company yourself.
Old     (jondextan)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-16-2010, 3:55 PM Reply   
hey calum, i think what you can do is get another set of bindings or baseplates (if they are removable), i believe the company board you have now have 6" two-hole inserts to you can get bindings with 7" or 8" baseplates to go over the one ripped insert OR get a slingshot/company bindings with the 4 hole insert.

wait a minute -- that's a pair of Company Bindings too right? how can you not get a 4-hole plate for that? contact if you still can't get one from Company, contact Slingshot if they can sell you one, i'm sure it'll fit the boot well.
Old     (snwmot)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-16-2010, 5:21 PM Reply   
just curious but are you sure that you have the correct info to get ahold of company im just saying it might be possible that you don't have the correct contact info every time iv'e dealt with Company customer service i was very impressed and happy with the whole situation.
Old     (turbonine)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-16-2010, 5:27 PM Reply   
Did you receive the 4-hole mounting plate?

Just pull out the boot liner in your boots. There will be 4 holes in the sole. Insert screws through here to mount to board via the 4-hole mount system. Takes about 10 minutes.
Old    loser760            05-16-2010, 6:30 PM Reply   
First off demos are usually quite different from the production boards, you must be new to the world of wakeboarding. Second, catching an edge is catching an edge, ive seen boards snap from catching edge, ive ripped boots straight out of inserts, ripped inserts out of boards, thereís a lot of force on a board and equipment when catching and edge. Third, itís the shops job to supply you with some sort of base plate, that was a demo board for the shop, not a board to sell, itís the owners responsibility to get your plate fixed, and he doesnít even have to do that because you bought a demo, thatís what you get. You have no idea what that board has been through, what falls have been taken on it, for all you know that board could have been ridden by more people then you wanna know. Forth youíre an idiot for not using the 4-hole mount. Fifth youíre a crybaby for even starting this thread, go get slingshot base plates there practically the same thing. For all you weenies calling out Joe, go put ur stickers all over your boards and act like kook wake boarders, he realizes your not asking for a warranty, heís just saying in a nice way your and idiot for buying a demo board and expecting any help (Common Sense). I only posted on this stupid cry baby thread cause randyís a friend and your bashing his company for a dumb reason. Company makes great products and I have 15 plus friends who Ride Company and love there gear never had a problem, but the BOUGHT NEW.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       05-16-2010, 6:36 PM Reply   
"Forth you’re an idiot for not using the 4-hole mount. Fifth you’re a crybaby for even starting this thread"

wow. could you be any more of an a$$?
Old     (bridges)      Join Date: May 2010       05-16-2010, 7:31 PM Reply   
it says she is a female on her profile, so she is prolly on the rag, i wud just completley ignore everything she said, pms is gettin to her bad..
Old     (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-16-2010, 8:47 PM Reply   
and there we go again. he's pissed that it broke immediately, but he understands it happened in part because of it's status as a demo board. he just wants help from company to buy new baseplates for the board, but no one is responding, hence the thread. So calm the f*** down don't care and walk away. You're just making yourself out to be a jackass, and associating yourself (someone that is super volatile) with Randy and Company is not benefitting them in the least, you're just hurting their reputation.
Old    loser760            05-16-2010, 9:04 PM Reply   
weeeeeeeeee funnnnnnnnyyyyyy boyyyyyyyysssssss, iiiiiiiiiiii likeeeeee funnnnnnny boooyyyyyyyssss, pppppppmmmmmmmsssssss heeheheheheheheh
Old     (bridges)      Join Date: May 2010       05-16-2010, 9:14 PM Reply   
o man we have a bipolar cracked out female on the rag. watch out everyone.
she's crazy!
Old     (jjett11)      Join Date: May 2008       05-16-2010, 9:22 PM Reply   
Colby and JS are great guys....Office #435-628-1741 Colby's email Use these methods of getting a hold of them and they would be more than happy to speak with you in what they can and cannot do in this situation.
Old     (benbuchholz)      Join Date: Oct 2009       05-16-2010, 9:56 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by loser760 View Post
your and idiot for buying a demo board and expecting any help (Common Sense). I only posted on this stupid cry baby thread cause randyís a friend and your bashing his company for a dumb reason.
Nice first post. He's an idiot for expecting advice on what he can buy from Company to fix his board? Thats all he wants, customer service to tell him what he needs to buy to fix his board. He said right in here that he wasn't expectin it to be warrantied. And who gives a S if his board is a demo or not? So Company shouldnt care about helping him out with getting what he needs just because its a demo board? Sounds like missed revenue to me. And bashing his company for a "dumb reason"? He never bashed it, he just said he was disappointed. Last I checked poor customer service is a pretty valid reason express disappointment in a company. Great attitude u have. Get real.
Old     (calummoore)      Join Date: Nov 2007       05-16-2010, 11:36 PM Reply   
Thanks again for the support guys.

I went to the company wake website and wrote an email to their warranty section so that's how i got in contact with them.

And i wouldn't really consider myself an idiot for using the 2 insert system. That's how the board came set up. I'm not going to go playing around with the boots hoping that i might be able to find another system.

And thanks for the email address ill shoot him a message. Hopefully it can be resolved and i can find out about the great customer service i keep hearing about.

Thanks again

Cry baby Calum
Old     (bogartsomeday)      Join Date: Mar 2009       05-16-2010, 11:39 PM Reply   
Dont Care (loser760).....your name explains everything. Like nick shrein said, you are only hurting company's reputation by showing that they associate themselves with immature people like you. Its funny how the idiots call other people the idiots. Female or male, anyone posting a post like that shouldnt be involved in this industry cause "wakeboarding" doesnt want or need people like you, i.e people who treat fellow riders like that and overreact. He wasnt bashing Company. Obviously everyone else didnt think he was bashing so you are straight up wrong. Saying he must be new to wakeboarding? Wow you are a tard! His thread has no direct reflection of how new he is to this sport. Even if he is new to the sport, you should be welcoming to him and help the guy out like everyone else is trying to do. Unfortunately we do have traces of people like you involved in this sport and arent too welcoming. You shouldnt have posted what you did making yourself look like the biggest fool on the west coast if you didnt want other riders callin you out on it being your time of the fiscal fn month. Too bad Dave has to be politically correct and keep your account active on here cause im sure almost everyone on this site would vote you out of this tight-nit community. We dont give a $hit if your friends with people at company, that doesnt make you anymore legit or credible. So ya, kook wakeboarders will continue to throw stickers on our boards, boats, and vehicles to rep the companies that we support with grace. You are far from a class act. Calling us "weenies"....what are we in 3rd grade??? You called all of us kook wakeboarders, well, you must be new to this sport so let me enlighten you; It is US "kook wakeboarders" who keep people like your friend Randy in fn business! WE are the core riders who buy the products and dont get them handed to us cause we arent sponsored. It is US who feeds money into this industry and allows all the sponsored pros out there to have a full time job wakeboarding cause if it werent for us "kook wakeboarders", manufacturers wouldnt have any fn money to press another board out of their machines! In defense to the community of wakeboarding i felt the need to express where you have fallen short (loser760). Go find another sport to be involved in cause I dont see how anyone would want you representing them or their company. Good thing you arent located here in nor-cal cause the large wake population here would be a great place for your bad rap to spread like wild fire and im sure many other close wake communities out there. So with all due respect (if there even is for you), please keep your posts limited on this site, we dont do well with your kind in these neck of the woods. I only wish you the $hittie$t, blown out, wake conditions for as long as you step foot on a board.
Old     (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-17-2010, 5:45 AM Reply   
Forth youíre an idiot for not using the 4-hole mount.

and you're right Joe, it's a demo, my bad
Old     (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-17-2010, 8:48 AM Reply   
Thanks for expanding upon what I said Codi.

As for Don't Care, I seem to remember a person who claimed to be a friend of Randall Harris coming in here one time a while ago and trash talking the hell out of someone who was either stating their opinion that they didn't like Harris's riding, or something bad about Company Wake. Not sure which, but yeah, this girl's a repeat offender. Actually, maybe she was defending Ricky G, but the claim of friendship with "Randy" was made then as well.... Not exactly sure, but this kind of post has been made by some girl before. I lurk here wayy too much to remember something like that.
Old     (JohnnyDefacto)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-17-2010, 10:03 AM Reply   
Obviously "Don't Care" should not be taken seriously, she/he/it is either trying to stir the pot for fun, or has a vendetta and is too scared to let us know who they are.

Dont Care, "Randy's" friends know to call him "Randall" because "Randall is the new 'Randy'", just as plaid is the new "black". Obviously you are not his friend and should not represent yourself in that fashion.

seacrest out.
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       05-17-2010, 10:33 AM Reply   
loser 760 joined yesterday zero credibility here, who calls him Randy anyway? go back to that other wakeboard site
Old     (DNice777)      Join Date: May 2010       05-17-2010, 11:52 AM Reply   
haha you guys blasted that person, thats funny stuff. So did you get a new plate or an answer? if i was you, just take your binding into the shop and see if a slingshot plate would fit, probably from the D series boots. Just an idea because i think the plates are pretty similar. hope you get back on your board soon its a great board. I have one and love it.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-17-2010, 12:23 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by slipknot View Post
loser 760 joined yesterday zero credibility here, who calls him Randy anyway? go back to that other wakeboard site
don't be arrogant to think that the people on this site don't pull the same stunt. the people here are just older.
Old     (calummoore)      Join Date: Nov 2007       05-17-2010, 1:34 PM Reply   
Well a quick update.

Susie from the warranty section emailed me back. She apologised for missing my email and within the space of less than 2 days she has already organised to send a new pair of base plates out. So it looks like i'm starting to hear about the good service i keep hearing
Old     (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-17-2010, 3:01 PM Reply   
just a question(to all). if you were out riding one day and your buddy asked to borrow your board and something similar were to happen to you that happened to calum would you guys ask for the the board to be warrantied, even though your buddy was riding it? should a board company only warranty the board if the original owner broke the board? i happen to think that if a board failed and if it is within the companies warranty period it should be covered no matter who broke it. nor should it matter if the board was bought and sold 100x as long as it was within a warranty period.

and "loser", self proclaimed friend of company wake. youve done much more damage to company wake with your post than calum could have ever conceived of doing with his original post.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       05-17-2010, 3:17 PM Reply   

I dont think Demo boards should be covered on a warranty, because no one has any idea on how they have been treated. loaning a board to a buddy is completely different then having 20 different people utilizing it in 20 different ways.
and since Calum was not asking them to warranty anything, it is a moot point.
glad to hear they are helping you out Calum.
Old     (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-17-2010, 4:35 PM Reply   
calum's situation prompted my question but wasnt meant to relate directly to calum's issue. but since you brought up the point of a board being used 20 different ways,does it really matter how a board was used as long as it doesnt void the warranty(sliders etc)? shouldnt a company still have an obligation to repair/replace their product given 1) the defect occurred within the warranty period 2) the board was originally eligible for a warranty(i.e. blems) 3) the board sustained the damage during the normal course of use(i.e. not on sliders, kickers etc).
Old     (mike2001)      Join Date: Feb 2008       05-17-2010, 4:36 PM Reply   
Good to hear Company has finally stepped up. Seems like a lot of people in this thread overlooked the fact the OP wasnt expecting some full replacement, just expressing some disappointment and looking for advice...which apparently this site isn't always the best place to get it.

Alan, thats too much logic for some posters in this thread. And I fail to see the comparison of buying a demo board to buying a rental car...does that mean that people who demo boards just go out and try to bust them up by taking face plants all day long? Doesn't make sense to me.
Old     (cheesydog)      Join Date: Mar 2009       05-17-2010, 6:39 PM Reply   
nice to hear company responded, usually you only hear good things about their customer service.

Loser hows that attitude workin out for ya? Good luck with that
Old     (jondextan)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-17-2010, 7:44 PM Reply   
hey calum, good on you! and Company too! i know how you feel as i live halfway across the world from the US where these companies are based. by the way, any idea if they are sending you the 4-screw baseplate? i hope they do, it's the better match for your company board and bindings (using the 4-holes in my slingshots as well). good luck!
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       05-17-2010, 8:12 PM Reply   
calling me arrogant, thanks Joe much appreciated. such a suprise from you
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-17-2010, 8:34 PM Reply   
read my post again. i said "don't be arrogant" in thinking that this site is free from what you accuse the other site of being.
Old     (wakerider017)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-18-2010, 5:41 PM Reply   
In case anyone else needed the 6" adapter plates...
Old     (zedagrizz)      Join Date: Apr 2010       05-18-2010, 8:11 PM Reply   
I just want to say that I purchased a new Company Wakeboard last year and ripped the lacing off of the binding on a really hard fall over New Years. I was probably yarring on the laces too hard to begin with, but the fall is ultimately what caused the failure. I emailed Company the Sunday night when I got home and had a new pair of bindings on my porch on Tuesday. I have had nothing but great interaction with the owner and representatives of Company so I can't imagine that they are ignoring you. Sounds like you got things sorted out.
Old     (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       05-18-2010, 9:59 PM Reply   
On a serious note, I wish you would have made a more conscious effort to get in touch with Company before you came on here.
Old     (aliwake)      Join Date: Dec 2006       05-18-2010, 10:53 PM Reply   
he tried to contact them through the shop he purchased from, then tried emailing them directly and got no reply after 3 weeks. I'm not sure what else you thought he should try, and I can understand why he felt he had to resort to this. it's great he's now getting the help he needs!
Old     (cheesydog)      Join Date: Mar 2009       05-18-2010, 11:43 PM Reply   
yea im not sure how much more of an effort he could have made, I find the whole thing handled very well from his end. Just a few guys seem keen to peg him as trying to score free gear, which I didnt get at all from his post
Old     (calummoore)      Join Date: Nov 2007       05-21-2010, 12:35 AM Reply   
Hey guys,

Just wanted to let you all know that Susie from Company wake got back to me and has hooked me up. I haggled to pay for the lot but she wouldn't have it, so we agreed that i pay postage. I think she may be throwing a t-shirt in the package aswell. So Joe it looks like you were right i guess. So since i gave them a bad review which i thought was fair at the time i also think that's it's fair to write about the good aswell as she has definitely gone out of her way to make me happy and has changed my judgement on their company. (Is that pun? I don't really know)

Thanks everyone for your support and advice. I appreciate it.

Old     (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-21-2010, 7:58 AM Reply   
Glad to hear about your resolution, although they may be trying to salvage their reputation because of this thread... Very sad about all the jerkwad posters in this thread. Lots of internet babies and lil kids.

What about the bindings themselves???? Why did they break? Do they have a plastic baseplate, or an aluminum base plate and PLASTIC grooves for the binding bolts?? That is too bad. They should have a full alum plate, and I would NEVER recommend any last-generation binding with plastic baseplates to anyone. Cant believe that there are still two or three companies doing this today.
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-21-2010, 10:14 AM Reply   
Makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it?


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