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Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-02-2010, 3:23 PM Reply   
Just curious... Can you be pro in one league and ride in an amature division in the other? It seems to me that a pro is a pro. Am I wrong? Let's say you ride pro in WWA, but you ride in a non-pro division in INT( or the other way around),should this be allowed? If you were running a competition, would you allow this?
In golf for instance, you can declare pro, allowing you to try to quallify for the US Open. The downside is you can not play as an amature for 2 years. What about Wakeboarding?
Old    Cole (rclester89)      Join Date: Mar 2010       05-02-2010, 5:41 PM Reply   
It's been my experience that in INT, at least in Texas, that because INT states what is allowed in each run it places better riders in lower classes. For example while I could compete in advanced due to my bag of inverts, my spins would keep me from placing well so I would opt to compete in intermediate. I think that to get the best idea on where you stand to your competition, you should be required to compete in the same class regardless of the competition, unless you're competing in cable. Wakeboarding comps are obviously not as strict on such rules as golf is, but I think unless the comp does not posses high caliber riders able to meet the standards of the specific class, you should be required to compete in the same class.
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-03-2010, 7:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rclester89 View Post
For example while I could compete in advanced due to my bag of inverts, my spins would keep me from placing well so I would opt to compete in intermediate. I think that to get the best idea on where you stand to your competition, you should be required to compete in the same class regardless of the competition, unless you're competing in cable.

That my friend, is called sandbagging. If you knowingly ride in a lower division than where you should be, you are sandbagging and cheating the system.


Also, I agree with the OP in that if you are PRO, you should ride in the PRO class no matter what it is. However if you aren't a PRO, then when comparing the WWA with in the INT, they don't usually have the same classes. For instance, at WWA events such as the Wake Games, Nationals, Worlds, etc, I would ride in Masters, yet in a local WWA event I would ride in Expert or Outlaw (even though I would probably be outgunned). INT I would ride Expert as I don't have any mobes.

You can't stay in the same division for every event because they are all different.
Old    Justin Harrelson (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       05-03-2010, 2:12 PM Reply   
Back on topic:
No, as far as I know, there is no regulation. I tell ladies I'm a pro all the time.....a pro race car driver. The WWA (or Nascar) has never come down on me.

It is tough to make a living wakeboarding. There are many great riders, as good as the "pros," that don't make a living wakeboarding (they build signs / work in an office / etc). And you have "pros" on tour that make no money. What about teaching pros (summer camp instructors)? They get paid. It is very vauge.

If you have the goods, I reccomend always riding up.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-04-2010, 12:22 PM Reply   
I dont think it really matters. Guys that ride at the Outlaw\Pro\Open level will most likely have won enough sunglasses, T shirts, sticker packs, closeout boards, plaques, etc. on their way up that there is no incentive to sandbag, nor do they care if anyone from other levels are riding against them. The only reason to show up is to put it on the line against all comers. No joy in sandbagging the lower divisions. Besides, its always obvious an nobody likes sandbaggers. The real offenders are in the midlevel divisions.

Also, in some tournaments the top division will fill up so some top riders end up in a division just below. I really dont think anyone riding at that high a level really cares.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-04-2010, 1:00 PM Reply   
"In golf for instance, you can declare pro, allowing you to try to quallify for the US Open. The downside is you can not play as an amature for 2 years. What about Wakeboarding?"

No, anyone can try to qualify for the US Open, the only qualification is your handicap has to be less than a 3, and you'll usually see a couple of amateurs qualify. If an amateur makes the cut (or wins), they cannot take the prize money.

Back to wakeboarding now.
Old    Mike Parker (roughrivermike)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-04-2010, 6:32 PM Reply   
Well jeremy,
it is actually a 1.4 handicap not a 3 like you stated. The handicap wasn't the point. Also just to let you know:

Before beginning an application, it is important to note the following from the USGA website:

* Holding membership in an organization of professional golfers (including apprentice status membership in the PGA) is a breach of Rule 2-2. If you have held membership in such an organization, you must resign your membership before your application will be considered. If, after all other violations of the Rules ceased, you used your membership card to receive any benefit that would not otherwise have been available to you, then please identify the date that you last received any benefit from your membership. This will determine the date your period awaiting reinstatement will commence.

* If you participated on a tour or mini-tour, please include the approximate total number of events when asked under Rule 3-1.

The routine period awaiting reinstatement is one or two years from the date of the last act contrary to the Rules of Amateur Status. Please note that longer periods may be prescribed in the case of an applicant who has played extensively for prize money. This period can vary depending on the type and length of violation, and is retroactive to the date that you last worked or played as a professional.

So mister know it all, back to my origional question:

if you are a pro wakeboarder, should you be able to compete as an amateur in a different league?

Last edited by roughrivermike; 05-04-2010 at 6:32 PM. Reason: spell
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       05-05-2010, 10:43 AM Reply   
Wakeboarding is not so big that this is a concern. I dont think it matters. There is nothing to gain in the lower divisions therefore nothing to lose. Professionals in other sports, like basketball, cannot go back to amateur status and use their advanced skill to get a college schollarship. Not only is it unfair competition, but it takes a schollarship away from a potential candidate. What does a sandbagger gain for himself or take away from others? Nothing quantifiable.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-05-2010, 12:16 PM Reply   
Mike, what you posted has nothing to do with amateurs losing status in the US Open. It is called an OPEN, because it is open to all players, amateur or pro. For instance, the winner and runner-up of the US Amateur get an automatic exemption into the following year's Open, provided that they have not declared themselves professional. That means Tiger Woods played in 2 US Opens off this exemption and did not lose his amateur status (he turned pro after winning his 3rd US Amateur). Amateurs also receive invitations to the Masters (US Amateur 1st and 2nd place, US Public Links 1st place {only I think}, and the British Amateur winner). The British Open offers automatic exemptions to amateurs along with qualifying similar to the US Open. The PGA Championship does not offer any amateur spots. Phil Mickelson is one of many amateurs to win a PGA Tour event (93' NT Open, I think). Competing or even winning a professional event does not effect your amateur status provided you do not accept any prize money. Many PGA Tour events offer special exemptions to exceptional amateur golfers.

The rule you posted applies to PGA professionals (Touring pros or teaching pros). Members of the PGA, are considered professional golfers and are not eligible to compete in amateur events.



Back to your original question, a pro should not be able to compete in grassroots events unless they have a PRO division, IMO.
Old    WakeboardSTL (jmuthafnp)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-05-2010, 1:18 PM Reply   
I wholly agree with BadBoyRipper.... you sir... are a sandbagger. Unfortunately, many sports have them (i.e motocross, BMX) and if you are choosing to compete, especially in these individual type sports, you should be competing to challenge yourself. Yeah.. winning in a lesser division is great and you get cool stuff, but what have you accomplished? Eventually you will get so used to winning, you will not want to move up for fear of losing and you will never progress. Challenge yourself and quit being a little sand bagging B%$&*!

For the record... I recently completed in Wake Games in the Masters division and I have only one spin and one invert, but I manned up and challenged myself to compete against former wakeboard pros and dudes who are just shredders. I now have the fire to go and learn new stuff and try again next year.

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