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Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-31-2010, 9:46 AM Reply   
Not trying to stir up too much, just something I noticed.

The MAWI cable threads didn't last long, and rightfully so as they were mostly an advertisement.

Yet the System 2.0 coming to Cali thread is nearly the exact same thing, and seems to be fine.

I don't get it.
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-31-2010, 9:54 AM Reply   
It's not what you say.....it's who you know.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-31-2010, 9:54 AM Reply   
You're right. I didn't notice that that thread had been started by somebody affiliated with the company. It's been deleted. Thanks for the heads up.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-31-2010, 9:55 AM Reply   
Paul, thanks for implying that I'm not an honest person that tries his best to keep things fair on the discussion board.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-31-2010, 10:01 AM Reply   
wtf....
Old    Tyler Curran (tylerc)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-31-2010, 10:04 AM Reply   
If someone not affiliated with the company started the same thread, with the same content, it would be fine?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-31-2010, 10:05 AM Reply   
I think moreso than what you say, its how you say it too.

I would say 95% of the posts are something to do with some brand in some way or another.... if you are anal enough someone asking for help on their 2003 Malibu Wakesetter could be a slight form of advertising
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-31-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
Obviously, every thread promotes a product. That's not the point. If I'm Joe Shmoe with a Malibu and I have no affiliation with Malibu, I can't be flagged for advertising. The problem occurs when the company that benefits is also the company that starts the thread. People talk about products and services all the time. That's the purpose of a discussion board. It's when the talk is prompted by the very company that benefits that we've crossed the line into advertising. So in answer to your question Tyler, yes.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-31-2010, 10:33 AM Reply   
^ Yeah, thats what I tried saying, but was way to short to get that point across.... Class was ending and I had to wrap it up.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-31-2010, 10:43 AM Reply   
NICK BRILLIANT CLASS WAS ENDING hahahahahahah!


Anyway there is a way to discuss things and bring things up without promoting them. Case in point every year I take pictures or get pictures of the set-up O'brien has a surf Expo and usually post them up. There is fin line between advertising and simply showing something new. Its all about the wording and the context. I do benifit from O'brien and a handful of other companies, I go out of my way to be an advocate for them with out promoting the companies or myself. Every once in a while I mess up and word something wrong and get deleted, its nothing to get upset about or compain about. Dave is just trying to keep this discussion board fair, honest, and everyone in check.
Old    Danny (rubin)      Join Date: May 2006       03-31-2010, 10:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakeworld View Post
Obviously, every thread promotes a product. That's not the point. If I'm Joe Shmoe with a Malibu and I have no affiliation with Malibu, I can't be flagged for advertising. The problem occurs when the company that benefits is also the company that starts the thread. People talk about products and services all the time. That's the purpose of a discussion board. It's when the talk is prompted by the very company that benefits that we've crossed the line into advertising. So in answer to your question Tyler, yes.
But someone who is not affiliated with a company is still not allowed to start a group buy to save the WW community some money? I would also say that there are threads started on here by companies that clearly are to promote their product, with no objection from you.

Yes, i realize its your website and you can do whatever you want...
Old    SCBrips (scbrips)      Join Date: Mar 2006       03-31-2010, 11:03 AM Reply   
C'mon Dave. We all know you make your millions by arbitrarily deleting threads and pandering to the wakeboard elite. Don't front.
Old    PAUL (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-31-2010, 11:23 AM Reply   
Dave, I never said you were a dishonest person. I was making an observation from my point of view.

I agree with everything Danny said.....it's your site and you can run it however you see fit.
Old    Josh (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-31-2010, 11:27 AM Reply   
i think group buys would be an awesome thing....they could happen through the shops that are paid advertisers on here....win/win situation.
Old    david pierce (desotodave)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-31-2010, 11:59 AM Reply   
That is all well and good, but sometimes I think that we miss out on some good information. For instance if I have bought and installed a company's sound system and I am having a problem, I would love it if someone from the factory chimed in, told me what I am doing wrong, or even suggested one of their products would work better.

Another example, if I am looking at buying a board, and it narrowed down to 2 or 3 boards from lets say O'Brien (just an example). I would love to have one of their pro riders comment and give me their opinion of each board, what the difference is, ridability etc.. This is info that is HELPFUL! Now if the O'brien rider says don't buy anything but O'brien, and Ronix sucks!, that is not helpful, and is obviously biased.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-31-2010, 12:21 PM Reply   
I didn't want to start wars or mudslinging.

Someone chiming in on their own products happens all the time, and is always good. As well as if you have questions on one specific brands boards, likely a knowledgeable source (in your example of Obrien 102% of the time Nintzel will chime in), and help you out. It also happens when the boards are from different companies, and that's where it get's into a gray area. Nintzel does a good job/timing at plugging his people, and tactfully. It has become expected that when someone asks about a board, helmet, vest, certain specific people will post suggestions of their sponsors, whether it's personal sponsors or their specific website sponsors (and this may be after they've bragged of picking up the sponsor, or even trashed wearing helmets in general in the past, until they got a sponsor). In my mind, Wakeworld is the best place to come for real street knowledge/getting the real info, where these guerrilla marketing militants start to ruin it, always suggesting who supports them, but seeming to be normal everyday users and riders.

None of what's been posted is even nearly close to keeping any of your examples from happening.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-31-2010, 12:39 PM Reply   
A-dub thanks for the props, I have had long email discussions with David about how to be tachful and to not to come off like an a-hole. Now if I think something is a bit to in the gray area I will just email David. I mean really if you question whether or not you should post it, dont.
Old    AP Perez (AP)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-31-2010, 1:20 PM Reply   
I think its ok to a certain extent... not pushing their product necessarily but showing whats new, etc...

for example... that system 2.0 thread. If it wasn't for that thread many people may have missed out on it and not known their was a cable park in the area opening soon... The topic starter did not say... "COME RIDE OUR CABLES!! $1,000 PER SESSION, ALSO, BUY OUR GEAR!!!" all they simply did was mention a new park is in the area... =)

just my 2 cents... but i usually make no sense.
Old    Robert Mitchell (2006maliblue)      Join Date: Mar 2009       03-31-2010, 1:39 PM Reply   
Well I can understand blatant advertising being banned on here you have to be more tactfull in your posts, thats why when I write about the Malibu VLX, Team Gillette, WakeSounds, Bullet Lines Party Boat, I never name drop just for the sake of name dropping like friends of CWB, O'Brein and MAWI cable and System 2.0 do, its just not appropraitte on a forum that has a diverse following just like NOS energy and Chevy Trucks. I think everything gets a little out of hand on here in the winter time. I'm going to fuel my truck and boat up with some Cheveron Techron Gas and try out the new Goodyear tires on the trailer and see if the Garmin GPS can point me to the lake down the street from my house to ride on some glassy water, just like Coke it satisfies! Then maybe head to the Outback for a nice big steak and wash it all down with some smooth rocky mountian Kool Aid, you know, Qoors Light, it satisfies!

I personally have no problems with some advertising on here. A company helping out by answering customer questions or introducing new products. However when it comes down to it Dave makes his money by selling advertising on HIS website. I don't agree with all his rules, but its his site so I'll abide by HIS rules. Do I think group buys would be awesome! Yes! Do I want to know when a new company or an exisiting company comes out with a new or awesaome product? of course. But this is Daves site and we have to play by HIS rules. I'm sure if you wanted to make a site called just group buys and companies with cool new products everybody would support it including Dave this is just not the appropriatte forum for it.

I wonder if Dave would create or perhaps he already has a section were companies can submit new products. Just a little one line section for news releases. So if we scrolled that section we'd see MAWI adds new obstacles to cable park or System 2.0 debuts in California. That would be real cool if there was a press release section with just a little one line blurb. What ya think Dave or am I missing it somewhere on the site?
Old    David (Luker)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-31-2010, 1:47 PM Reply   
It's getting warm out... why are threads like these still popping up? This is usually December discussion material.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-31-2010, 3:03 PM Reply   
YES! The go-to lame thread thrashing, you should be riding instead but I'm posting on here right now too post..... Chea broski! Leaving work to go ride right now! Serious too, it's 5 o'clock.
Old    David (Luker)      Join Date: Feb 2010       03-31-2010, 6:37 PM Reply   
Man look at the time of the post... mid day homie! Sittin at work Haha
Old    Mitch (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-31-2010, 9:52 PM Reply   
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=778099
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       03-31-2010, 10:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by desotodave View Post
That is all well and good, but sometimes I think that we miss out on some good information. For instance if I have bought and installed a company's sound system and I am having a problem, I would love it if someone from the factory chimed in, told me what I am doing wrong, or even suggested one of their products would work better.

Another example, if I am looking at buying a board, and it narrowed down to 2 or 3 boards from lets say O'Brien (just an example). I would love to have one of their pro riders comment and give me their opinion of each board, what the difference is, ridability etc.. This is info that is HELPFUL! Now if the O'brien rider says don't buy anything but O'brien, and Ronix sucks!, that is not helpful, and is obviously biased.
David, our no-advertising policy does not apply to this situation. In fact, a quick look around our discussion board will show you that a majority of our threads involve this kind of input from industry professionals. We encourage it and anyone who does a search on Tim White will see an excellent example of somebody that contributes positive content to the community, answers questions about his product and does it without blatantly advertising his product.
Old    Ricky Gonzalez (RGWSR)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-01-2010, 12:22 PM Reply   
I'm the one that posted the video of the wolf lakes cable park. If i cant post a video of myself as a rider on a wakeboard forum something is seriously wrong. I have no business affiliation with wolf lakes. just a rider than enjoyed riding the system and took video of it and posted it.

thanks

Ricky G.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       04-01-2010, 5:54 PM Reply   
Nope, we're not talking about your post Ricky. Nothing wrong with that.
Old    Ricky Gonzalez (RGWSR)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-02-2010, 1:57 AM Reply   
sorry dave, in my thread someone said bye bye thread #2, so i was trying to figure out why.

thanks!

Ricky G.
Old    Garrett Skeen (GarrettSkeen)      Join Date: Mar 2010       04-02-2010, 7:08 PM Reply   
For those of you who may want to see what was posted here you might want to check out the front page of www.alliancewake. I have no business affiliation with alliance wake. I believe they saw a good story and ran it! Didn't mean to create a crap storm just wanted to post some fun pics of my brother and I riding in the snow here in Oklahoma and let people know we have a new rail.
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       04-02-2010, 8:31 PM Reply   
So glad everybody is playing ad cop now...
Old    thebiggmann            04-03-2010, 8:13 AM Reply   
We need a "Before you b**** about advertising, read this" sticky.

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