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Old    Justin (newmy79)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-14-2010, 9:19 AM Reply   
I'd like some feedback and advice/suggestions from any Supra Launch owner because my wife and I are considering purchasing a used Launch, either 21v or 22SSV model years 2004-2008 (that all depends on price, hours, condition, options, etc.). This will be our first boat that we've owned ourselves however I don't want anyone to think that we're brand new to the sport and lifestyle since we've grown up around boats our entire lives.

I'd like to get your opinions on these two boats from anyone that owns one or has owned one. I've never driven a Supra, but I really love the looks of the boat and have read about what a great boat they are many times on this board. I have experience driving a Malibu VLX, SANTE, X-1, X-Star, Moomba Outback, and a Bu' VTX. From what I have read the wake on a 21v/22SSV/Supra overall is awesome, nice rampy transition with a lip at the top for boost. So I've never ridden behind one either.

I live in a crappy part of the country where Supra dealers are not popular (NJ/Northeast) and from looking on Craigslist I''m going to need to go MidWest or West in order to even get one (used that is, not new). There's a dealer in MD and VA I believe.

So just give me your opinions on the boats I've asked about. What do you like? Not like, what should I look for, what is considered a good number of hours (I know this depends on year, but how many hours on avg. do people put on in a season?) You know, all of the things that helped you when you were looking.

I appreciate any feedback,. Please don't reply with you should look into a Sanger, Centurion, etc. I've looked at the VLX (a little pricey for me) as well as Moomba Mobius LSV, but I'm really looking to find people's experiences with the Supra.

Thanks.
Old    Michael Hunter (mhunter)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-14-2010, 12:14 PM Reply   
Post this on the Supra forum there is a good chance you can get a ride with a owner not too far from you. You will also get any questions you have about Supras answered. I have a 89 its been a great boat but I dont know first hand about the newed boats.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-14-2010, 12:39 PM Reply   
Good luck on your find. I have owned both the 21V and the 22SSV. It will really come down to your taste and how you will use it.
The 21V - Actually came out in 05, so you won't find an 04. Very solid boat and pretty much the same boat it is today. I think newer models may handle a bit better due to some rudder changes, but pretty much the same. You can load the heck out of them with weight and always be happy with the wake.

The 22SSV - A new hull came out in 07, so the hulls previous to 07 were a bit smaller and sleeker. Less storage, but in my opnion one of the best looking boats when it is sitting on the water cause of the low profile. It will feel significantly smaller than the 07 and newer. They got much deeper and tons more storage. Check out the seating configurations and make sure you like them. You will love the boat. It is a bit harder to tweak the wake the way you want it, but once you get it dialed it is a big steep wake.

Post any specific questions, but you can't make a wrong decision with either of the boats. Just find a good one that has been cared for.
Old    Aaron Ware (99_slaunch)      Join Date: Oct 2005       03-14-2010, 1:09 PM Reply   
Just like diggs said. We have an 05 22ssv I love the boat. No complaints. It has more storage then our 99 launch dd had. It seems like the more room you have the more stuff you bring. We started to notice we were bringing stuff we really did not need. We cut back on the stuff we take out now.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-14-2010, 5:13 PM Reply   
I have an '08 22V Sunsport, exact same hull design as the Launch, the Sunsport has the walk thru bow and only a 400 lb front center ballast bag, instead of the playpen bow and 600/1100 lb bag. Other than this the boat is identical. I put 150 hours on my Supra last year and it has been a great boat. I have three kids, and many times a full load of people on my boat and my upholstry looks as good as new. However, There are a couple items in the '08 and older models that need to be addressed:

In '09 they went to the JABSCO ballast puppies which is a MUCH better design for filling bags, the '08 and older boats use the RULE 20GPM pump fed into sprinkler valves which is junk. Good news is, you can replace this setup for about $400 with Tsunami's, I did this on my '08 and it now works great. I can fill 1900 lbs of ballast in about 8-9 minutes. I upgraded to the larger 750lb rear bags.

The '08 and older boats use the Roswell push-button swivel racks which start to loosen up. Good news is, for $100 you can get a much better pin style replacement from Roswell. Roswell has great customer service and will send you a set right out. Direct bolt-on, very easy to swap out.

Supra does have the easiest ballast system to expand, simply buy the larger fly-hi sacs and plug in and your good to go. I have never riden in a 21V so I cant give much feedback on that boat.

Supra makes a very nice high end wakeboard boat. The Z-5 rack, hull design, driveability, tower design, creature comforts, and overall look of the boat are great. I have ridden behind other boats (X-15's, Malibu LSV's, etc...) and Supra will definitely compete with these lines. I am not a shredder, intermediate rider, and the wake is more than sufficient for people that ride behind my boat.

Supra also put there boats on nice trailers (boxed in, 4 wheel disc, etc..) and have good warranties (4 years on the '08 models). The Indmar power plants with the 14.25 x 14 wakeboard prop are top of the line and perform great.

Hope this helps a little, I would not hesitate for a second to buy another Supra. I wish I could afford a new 2010 with the new Vision dash, which is a great upgrade.

Last edited by fman; 03-14-2010 at 5:16 PM.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-14-2010, 5:44 PM Reply   
Ride in all the boats you look at to compare for yourself. The Supra's have a lot of features for the money. The Z-5 cargo rack like Travis mentions is awesome. It's so big that you can get plenty of shade and still use it to carry all your crap.

If it's got the sprinkler valve ballast, just plan on ripping it out and starting over. It's junk... All of that is coming out of my boat right now.

Having a GOOD dealer close makes a difference. I believe the dealers can make or break the brand.
Old    Scott (scottnaz)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-14-2010, 6:40 PM Reply   
05' 22ssv here-
We're really enjoying our Supra. We have a family of 4, and it's a great size for us, plus another family of kids. No doubt, it won't fit the 12-15 people a new Nauti or BU or Supra 24 will seat, but again, it works great for our family.

Storage isn't the greatest. We pile ice chests/vests/rope/etc in the rear lockers, then have to move them around as we ride and surf, but no biggie. Again, it's all about family time.
I've experienced some minor gel coat cracking around the tower mounts.
I recently learned from the dealer that the Walters V-drives have a tendency to rattle the bottom v-drive bolts loose, and will then begin to loose fluid. Certainly something to watch.

You can pile a TON (or 2) of weight in the Supra Hull. We surf with close to 3000 lbs extra ballast weight, and it throws an awesome wake. The sprinkler ballast pumps do take a while to fill, and that's certainly a draw back, but we use the time to reconfigure the seating, fill extra bags, and get everything else ready for the ride. I'm looking in to the ballast pump change over, and may do that this season.

A good dealer would be key, but certainly not a deal breaker. The old Supra dealer in PHX BLEW!!!!!, seriously, they were garbage. I took the boat in for an annual, and when I picked it up they said, "we broke the impeller housing cover screw off, but it's still holding water with one screw, so we didn't fix it, and it's not our problem."
HUH?? What did he just say??
Despite the crappy customer service, I didn't regret Supra ownership. That dealer lost the brand, and the new Supra dealer is the top Nautique dealer in the SW, and it seems they are willing and ready to embrace us Supra owners. Nevertheless, the local dealer (or lack of) shouldn't kill the deal. At the end of the day, it's a great manufacture that stands behind their product.
Old    Justin (newmy79)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-14-2010, 6:48 PM Reply   
Hey everyone thanks for replying. Michael, am I missing something: there's a Supra forum? You mean the one on supra.com/bb ? Just checking.

In terms of dealers, as I stated I live in a really ****ty spot in terms of the "popularity" of wakeboard boat dealers, New Jersey. The only dealers I know of (non-Supra) in NJ are Malibu that belongs to a friend of mine, a Centurion dealer (another friend), and a Mastercraft. None of those boats are in my consideration. I have a friend whose buddy has a 24 ssv and he gets it serviced at the Centurion dealer and has been pretty satisfied thus far. The other Supra dealer near me, not really near (2 hrs), shut down. So I am in a pickle there.

I wasn't aware of the low-end ballast problem, thanks for letting me know that. I'll plan on just ripping it out and replacing it I guess. I'll check back in a bit to see what else people say. There are a lot of Supra owners on WW, I'm surprised more people aren't chiming in.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-14-2010, 6:50 PM Reply   
One other feature about the Sunsport that is nice is the stepdown cooler in the corner rear set, it has steps and a very large cooler/port air pump that holds a ton of stuff and drains into the bilge area. With the Z-5 rack and cooler step, I only put vests and ropes in my ski lockers. Some of the Launch's will have this feature, but most come with a seat in its place. There is an armrest on the top step of the cooler so someone can sit there but its really not comfortable. I always tell everyone its for the people who dont pay for gas

Heres the link for the Supra bulletin board forum:

http://www.supraboats.com/bbs/

Last edited by fman; 03-14-2010 at 6:54 PM.
Old    David Williamson (davey_boy)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-14-2010, 7:51 PM Reply   
I'd agree the ballast isn't fast to fill, but I personally don't consider it a big issue. I have a 21v with upgraded ballast and probably takes 10-12 minutes to fill it. But, by the time we drive a few minutes down the lake to riding spot, get our gear ready and get the first guy in the water, it's ready to go. In the rare case that it's not, we typically start the first set anyway and just shut it off when it finished (which is within a couple minutes of starting that first set.) So, I wouldn't consider it something you 'must' upgrade.

When I bought my boat, I considered both the 21v and 22ssv, but I much preferred the 21v. A deeper boat, and it feels bigger and has a lot more usable storage. (As Diggs says, this changed in 07 and now the 22ssv is deep as well and feels a little bigger than the 21v.)

The Supra has been a great boat for me, and the only downside I've seen is the surf wake is just decent, not awesome. I've been surfing more lately and decided to switch to a more surf-specific boat (Sanger 237.) So, my 05 21v is for sale, check out the classifieds here on wakeworld if you are interested.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-15-2010, 7:10 AM Reply   
I guess I am not sure I would say the ballast system pre-09 was junk. I never had any issues with any of mine nor have I heard of many issues. Was it slow to fill??? Yes, in comparison to the new system, but I never had mechanical issues. The new system is hands down faster.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-15-2010, 8:12 AM Reply   
I had many problems with the sprinkler vavles, priming issues, bags filling when you drive the boat, and as you mentioned extremely slow fill times. These issues happened all the time, that is why I upgraded to the Tsunami fill system, sooooo much better. Maybe I was one of the unlucky ones, regardless, the new Tsunami system does well.

If you are looking for a better surf wake then I would recommend the 22V or 24, they will produce a much better wake because of the increased weight and boat length.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-15-2010, 8:14 AM Reply   
I have an '05 24SSV Launch and love it.

I'm a big proponent of the 21v, a highly underrated boat all around, and throws one of the biggest and steepest wakes I've ever ridden behind, particularly if it's weighted properly. I'm not entirely familiar with the 22, though I've rode in one, just not behind one. The most important thing is to get into both, if only to crawl around, and see what you like and don't like. Both are terrific boats and you can't go wrong.

The ballast on my '05 24, as well as a friends '05 21 wasn't bad. Generally we'll start filling up on the way to a spot and are ready to go before the first rider is in the water. If you sit there while it fills up and you're waiting for it it may take 10 to 12 minutes, I don't know, it just doesn't seem like that long of a time to me. I tend to think it fills up faster on the go, but that could be my imagination.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-15-2010, 8:14 AM Reply   
05 21v owner. My previous wb was an 01 xstar.

Pros;
Solid boat, with decent rough water ride(xstar was awful)
Huge wake with the GG ballast. Most of my friends don't even like it full.
Trim tab is a very nice feature
Handles pretty well
Good trailer
Interior feels pretty large for a 21 ft boat.

Cons;
Although I love the swivel racks, they rattle like mad
Ballast does take some time to fill/empty, and usually doesn't empty all the way
access to the vdrive is a little cheap feeling.
I have had problems with Vapor lock when it is really hot outside
Surf wake isn't that great
bilge pump sits in the wrong spot, but its an easy fix
can be difficult to get cushions in and out(not really a big deal just being picky)

Overall, I do like the boat. Some of the cons are not really big deals.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-15-2010, 9:27 AM Reply   
"I had many problems with the sprinkler vavles, priming issues, bags filling when you drive the boat, and as you mentioned extremely slow fill times. These issues happened all the time, that is why I upgraded to the Tsunami fill system, sooooo much better. Maybe I was one of the unlucky ones, regardless, the new Tsunami system does well."

These are both easy to solve. I will not refute that the new system is better, but these are both easy fixes. The valves have a little black lever. If the lever is in the wrong place it will fill when it drives. You just need to move the lever to the other position. If your bags are not filling, you simply get the boat on plane and flip the switch. It will prime your bag every time. Yes they will fill much faster when on plane as well.

FMAN probably already knows this now, but good info for anyone else that may have had the issues.
Old    Chanes (cdtex14)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-15-2010, 9:35 AM Reply   
07 21V here and I've been very happy with it. The racks at way better after upgraded to the pin system. I had the same problem with slow filling ballast and I pulled the panel on the floor covering the gas tank and found that the fill line to the center bag was pinched. I straightened it out and re-routed the the best I could and it fills a lot faster.
Old    Chanes (cdtex14)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-15-2010, 9:37 AM Reply   
Paul,
What is the easy fix for the bilge pump? I have noticed that the water in the center storage never pumps out... Is that what your talking about?
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-15-2010, 9:43 AM Reply   
Not exactly. It appears that the bilge beneath the motor is not in the lowest point and never gets all the water out. Maybe that is what is happening to you, and it just flows back up to the center. I assumed you could just move the bilge to a better spot, although I have not done it yet. Maybe its not. I am not very mechanical.
Old    Chanes (cdtex14)      Join Date: Aug 2007       03-15-2010, 11:46 AM Reply   
cool, thanks, I'm going to dig into that problem a little more.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-15-2010, 9:30 PM Reply   
Diggs, it's not the black switch. I've had at least 5 of those sprinkler valves fail in the last 2 years. And it's not trash getting in them. Everytime one of them fails I take it out, clean it with air, and it doesn't work. They're total junk. All of the 2009 season with my boat was without the ballast working properly. I've even had the dump pumps crap out and had to drain the 1100# bag through the bilge while parked on the boatramp and the drain plug at the bilge pulled. That's THE WORST system that any boat has ever had, IMO. SC and my dealer is helping me resolve this issue so hopefully I can enjoy my boat in 2010 instead of work on it everytime I go out.

As for the "won't empty the bags completely" comment. That's true, but if the boat's setting level, how would you expect the bags to empty? I built a set of ramps in my ski lockers so the drain of the bag is the lowest point, and all the water goes to that point.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-16-2010, 6:54 AM Reply   
jonyb,
That sucks. All I can say is I have had 5 boats with that set up and never had any issues. Are you sure you don't have kinked lines and you are priming them properly.
The black levers allow water to freely flow into your bags when the boat is in motion and the ballast is off. If you adjust that lever it will correct the issue someone else mentioned above. As for your other issues, it sounds like priming issues or kinked hoses. If not, I am not sure, but I really don't think that is a widespread common problem, but what do I know.
Good luck getting it all fixed up.
Old    Kevin (wakebdr2002)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-16-2010, 8:53 AM Reply   
I owned a 21V and now own a 24SSV. You can not go wrong with either boat - they both have great wakes and tons of features. My brother had a 22SSV and just purchased a new 09 22SSV. If you get the 22 I would go with what others said and get 07 or newer. This is when they changed to the new deeper hull.

As for the ballast - I agree the sprinkler system is a bit slow and the 09 systems are much faster. The slow fill time never bothered me though as I had a 15 min drive to our riding spot and would fill ballast on the way there. I never once had any problems with my sprinkler valves or pumps.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-16-2010, 1:39 PM Reply   
Diggs, the bags fill on their own.

It's not the switch

It's the crappy sprinkler valves, that almost every Supra owner has had problems with.

The only way I could make them stop filling is to isolate the water from the intake on the bottom of the boat. That means everyone in the boat would have to shuffle around so I could pick up the bench seat, set it on the back, pull out the storage container over the transmission, turn the water off, then back again. Then when it's time to fill more, take it apart again.

Trust me, I know how to work on this boat and the junk ballast. There's a reason they stopped installing that shortly after my boat was built.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-16-2010, 3:47 PM Reply   
jonyb,
Not trying to flex or argue back and forth, but there has to be more to your equation. I know them inside and out as well and have owned several Supra's as you know. On top of that I know a lot of Supra owners.
Have I heard the complaint about bags filling when the boat is in motion? YES
Have I had the same issue? YES
Every single boat, I simply flip the black levers on the manifold and that stops. That switch should not have been moved in the first place. I have never heard anyone still having that issue after. Maybe I am totally wrong and I am not sure it is worth doing a WW poll to figure it out.

I know you have been pretty vocal about some of your issues, and I don't blame you, but we need to try and give real information instead of just bashing. Is it the best system in the world? Probably not, but the reality is it is pretty fail safe and SC has used it for probably 7 years????? You think they would just keep using a system that does not work? Over those years ballast systems have gotten bigger and fact of the matter it is slow for filling larger and larger bags with the same system.

I still love you man, but just trying to give him honest info!!!! Big hug
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-17-2010, 6:29 AM Reply   
Dude, I'm not bashing.

My ballast problems have nothing to do with the black switches. That was always the first thing I checked. They failed, and I'm happy to hear you never had those problems. Luckily for me, SC and my dealer are taking care of this problem. When 1 of mine failed, it worked for a short period of time, so when a new sprinkler valve was installed, and it worked, it's not the black switch.


"You think they would just keep using a system that does not work"

It was discontinued after 2008 wasn't it?
Old    Big Nate (thesack)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-17-2010, 8:08 AM Reply   
jonyb,

When they replaced your sprinkler valve that failed, did the try replacing just the solenoid to begin with?

With the number you have had fail I would think that it is a solenoid issue caused by a short in the wiring someplace.


newmy79,

I have an 07 21V and it is all around a good boat. Handles well, even fulled sacked in rougher water. Has a huge observe side hatch that i can completly fit in and I am a bigger guy. I like the play pin instead of the walkthru. It gives a nice storage area when the seat backs are up for towels or other things that you want quick access too. We've replaced the stock ballast bags with 750s in the rear and the 1200 in the bow, added about 150lbs of lead to the bow and the boat throws out a really nice wake for wakeboarding. Drain the one side of the rear for surfing and i have a tall and long surf wake. Upgraded the prop from the stock OJ wakeboarding prop to the Acme 1235, which makes us get on plane in about 8 seconds versus 20. The Z5 cargo rack is a must have IMO. The dealer/SC upgraded my board racks from the Roswells to the Titans that were used in 09.

A few of the isses I have had are the dash hood came loose.. and the dash guage cluster mounting support broke from the dash hood causing it to fall foward. Both were just retighten the nuts and/or add washers and retighten. Numerous stress cracks in the gel coat, dealer has fixed some in the past but they keep coming back. The heater core is mounted in an area that doesn't allow it to drain properly. Mine blew which the dealer covered the repair because it was there fault, but the repair turned out to be a major headache because of how the dealer treated us. The ballast hose going to the front sac was kinked in a few different spots, both really easy fixes.

I would assume for service that you could go to the Malibu dealer, because here the Supra and Malibu dealer are the same company.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-17-2010, 5:07 PM Reply   
I replaced the sprinkler valves, and they temporarily worked.

It was not the black switch.
Old    Justin (newmy79)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-17-2010, 5:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fman View Post
One other feature about the Sunsport that is nice is the stepdown cooler in the corner rear set, it has steps and a very large cooler/port air pump that holds a ton of stuff and drains into the bilge area. With the Z-5 rack and cooler step, I only put vests and ropes in my ski lockers. Some of the Launch's will have this feature, but most come with a seat in its place. There is an armrest on the top step of the cooler so someone can sit there but its really not comfortable. I always tell everyone its for the people who dont pay for gas

Heres the link for the Supra bulletin board forum:

http://www.supraboats.com/bbs/
Thanks Travis. Do you happen to have a picture of this stepdown cooler? What's the difference between a Sunsport and a Launch? I've seen quite a few new Sunsports but never noticed them before, perhaps I was just blinded by all the 21v talk and pics. I think I first saw NAW's 21v on WW a few years ago and fell in love!

Typically in all of the boats I've ridden in or driven the ballast takes about 12 minutes to fill, and like other people have mentioned by the time you get settled, hit your riding spot and get a rider ready the bags are already filled.

In terms of a so-so wakesurf wake I am ok with that. I do like to occasionally surf, my wife does as well, but we're not hardcore. We can always find ways to make one side heavier and get a decent wake. I don't think I've surfed behind a boat that has a "great" surf wake. I would say they are all ok for our level. As long as there's a bit of a curl and we can ride ropeless and just mess around we're happy!

I'm not a very mechanical guy either Paul, I rely on my father, step-father, and father-in-law who all can basically do it all! I've learned quite a few things from these guys. It's extremely helpful to have people like that who can help. Saves me from paying for a mechanic or sending it to a dealer.

Everyone has provided great info. I appreciate it. DW I'll check out your "05 21v.

Big Nate-Play-pen versus walk-through: This picture depicts the playpen you are referring to I assume? (versus a walkthrough bow) And I would have to ask my buddy at the Malibu dealer if he could service my boat if needed.

Thanks everyone.
Attached Images
 
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-17-2010, 8:26 PM Reply   
Just an FYI all 21V's have a playpen unless it is an 10'. It became an option in 2010 to have a walktrhough. that is a playpen in the pic you show. the 21v will throw a good surf wake. it is very steep and not real long. load a 650 or 750 bag in the back and fill your front sack full or half full and hit around 10 mph and you will be good
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-17-2010, 8:38 PM Reply   
Here is a pic of the step down cooler in my 09 22SSV. You will only find this option in the 22 or 24. It holds 24 cans of your favorite beverage and 2 bags of ice: D. Really helps loading and unloading from dock when tied up on drivers side
Attached Images
 
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-17-2010, 9:17 PM Reply   
newmy79,

One other thing to keep in mind, in 2006 the 21V had significant hull design changes, wider beams, and deep V keel, the 21v has a 100" beam on '06 and newer models which is a great upgrade from the old 95-98" beam. The 2007's (Indmars) did have some vapor locking problems, in 2008 they added a second fuel pump which resolved the problem.

And yes, if I ever can order a custom Supra from the factory I will get it with the built in cooler, its a great upgrade in my opinion. I also like the walk-thru bow over the playpen seating, I think its much more comfortable for people to sit in so they can hang there legs on the floor. You do loose a little storage and ballast capacity, but I am not an expert wakeboarder and neither is anyone who rides in my boat. With 1900 lbs of ballast its more wake than we can all handle.

Regardless if you buy a 21, 22, or 24V you wont be disappointed with a Supra. The again, all the top wakeboard boat manufacturers these days are producing very nice boats, it just depends on what YOU are looking for in a boat and at the end of the day is going to help make some great memories with family and friends!

Last edited by fman; 03-17-2010 at 9:26 PM.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-17-2010, 10:40 PM Reply   
Even though I like to call the cooler a melter, it's still nice to have it.... The one in my boat is huge!
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-18-2010, 6:37 AM Reply   
Fman

"One other thing to keep in mind, in 2006 the 21V had significant hull design changes, wider beams, and deep V keel, the 21v has a 100" beam on '06 and newer models which is a great upgrade from the old 95-98" beam."

I don't think the comment above is true. I may be wrong, but the 21V hull came out in 05' and has not changed at all until 09' and it just had some very minor tweeks. The 21V old hull is pretty much a copy of the old Direct Drive Launch that has been around for years.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-18-2010, 6:47 AM Reply   
Yea, Diggs is right, it was '05 that you see the hull change.
Old    Travis (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-18-2010, 7:45 PM Reply   
According to the Supra archive on there site, 2005 21V model has a 98" beam, and the 2006 has a 100" beam. I could be mistaken on the hull re-design year, I thought it was in 2006, regardless the 2006 model will be 2" wider in the beam width according to Skiers Choice.
Old    Justin (newmy79)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-18-2010, 8:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler97217 View Post
Just an FYI all 21V's have a playpen unless it is an 10'. It became an option in 2010 to have a walktrhough. that is a playpen in the pic you show. the 21v will throw a good surf wake. it is very steep and not real long. load a 650 or 750 bag in the back and fill your front sack full or half full and hit around 10 mph and you will be good
Didn't know that thanks Diggs. I have a question regarding this related to ballast. In all of my friend's boats (Malibu VLX, Moomba Outback, SANTE,Mcraft 210) they all sack up their boats with a 300-400 lb sack in the walkthrough and a 400-650-750 lb. sack in front of the rear seating along with the internal ballast in the rear lockers and the ski locker, so there's usually bags all over. Just curious how that play-pen works for all of your ballast setups? Do most of you just use the internal ballast and fill that?

I guess if you could share what your setups are and what you've had success with that would be helpful.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-19-2010, 7:20 AM Reply   
Fman - Strange... Not sure any changes were made between 05-06. Must be a typo.

newmy79- That is the whole beauty of a playpen and Supra. You can load tons of ballast and have it all tucked away and all plumbed. If you want to do it right, you will pull out the bag that is in the walkthrogh/playpen (probably 650 lb) and replace it with the 1150 lb bag. It fits in there nice and plumbs directly into the existing hardware. You then take that 650 lb bag and buy one more of those and then put those both in the back compartments. That leaves you with around 2400 lbs of ballast all hidden away at the flip of a switch. As noted earlier it will take longer for you to fill your ballast and the ways to speed that up is do the pump upgrades that jonyb was saying or just live with it being a bit slow. If you get your boat up on plane while you are filling them, it will go much quicker. Now you have the perfect set up for surfing and for wakeboarding. Hope that hleps.
Old    Big Nate (thesack)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-19-2010, 9:36 AM Reply   
newmy79-

Yes that is the play pen i was referring too. Sorry it took me so long to respond was out of town for work.

The Supra's use Fly High fat sacs for there factory installed ballast. They have quick disconnect fittings on them. If you want to upgrade from the factory ballast sacs to the larger sacs you simply remove the factory sacs and replace them with the larger sacs. And as Diggs indicated they are completly hidden. Nothing to crawl over or in the way. For my boat i replaced the factory rear sacs (I think are 400lbs each) with the 750's and the playpen/bow sac (factory 650lbs) with the 1200.

jonyb-

I know that you indicated that it wasn't the black switch, which is the manual over ride for the electric solenoids. I was wondering if when you replaced the sprinkler valves if you replaced the entire valve each time or if you tried just unscrewing the solenoid and replacing that?
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-19-2010, 7:05 PM Reply   
I replaced the whole solenoid valve.
Old    Seth (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-20-2010, 7:18 AM Reply   
I have an 07 22SSV and love it for the most part. We went this route becuase of the seating arrangment with the rear facing seat behind the driver. in 07, it was the only boat with this type of seating which is great for crusing or just hanging on the water. We also have the walk through shown in the pic above. Love it!!! It truly is aweseom for docking. You guys have touched on the ballast being slow to fill. I've yet to make the switch to the Tsunami system and will when I upgrade to the GG ballast package.

I only have two complaints- The board rack slop (I'm inquiring with Roswell now to get this upgraded) and the perfect pass. I believe the speedo is mounted too far from the center of the hull, such that when I turn right, the speedo gets a rush of water making the ECM think the boat has sped up when it's actually slowing down. Annoying. I also think this is the same reason that when I cut back on a TS trick from a HS trick on the opposite side, the slight rock in the boat to the left that I create from edging creates the same effect which slows the boat and softens the wake. One side note, this doesn't seem to a problem when I'm riding with a few others and a full tank of fuel. Maybe the GG ballast would help.

Any suggestions on this issue would be much appreciated from fellow owners.

Overall, I really do love the boat and have had no issues. I'll throw up pics when I pull it out from hibernation.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-20-2010, 9:13 AM Reply   
Seth,
The swivel board racks has been an issue. Go with the replacements by Roswell. Well worth the switch and it will end it.
For your perfect pass paddle wheel issue.....In 07' they had the paddle wheel mounted too far off center of the hull. Take the boat to your dealer and they will re-drill the hole over about 5" towards the center of the boat. They will move the paddle wheel to that location and it will end that issue. They will plug the other hole. It is a very known issue and a simple fix. They should cover it under warranty if you bought the boat from them.
Good luck
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-20-2010, 11:38 AM Reply   
All - Here is the facts about 98 to 100 inch beam change on the 21V. From the words of Matt Brown, they actually measured it. From 2005 to 2008 there was no change in the 21V hull, simply just a change in reporting. The 2009 model did get tweeked a little because they cnc'd the design. The better discription would be that the hull was made digitally true in 09. I owned an 05, 06 and 08. There were no difference in the hulls.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-20-2010, 12:03 PM Reply   
All - About the 21V Playpen. The bigger 1150lb will only fit in the 05-08 21V. The bigger gas tank in 09 with planned design for walk thru bow has a much smaller basement locker and the factory bag is max. For those of us who like the extra weight, the v-drive intergrated sac would have to be plumbed in. Since I trade boats every year I moved up to the 22SSV which still lets be just swap the bags and keep the playpen seating
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Old    Seth (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-20-2010, 6:56 PM Reply   
Diggs- Unfortunately, I didn't buy my boat from the local Supra dealer. He dropped the ball big time when we were looking. The dealership has a very poor reputation but we really liked the boat. Not sure what this means for me. I might be better off calling Supra and getting them to force the dealer's hand. Honestly, I'm worried that the boat would come away in worse shape if I took it in to them.

Anybody else have bunk dealer with suggestions on how to deal when you have an issue?

Diggs- Did you notice it was better when you were fully weighted?
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-20-2010, 7:53 PM Reply   
How did the dealer drop the ball before the sale?

I had some issues in the past with the dealer that sold me my boat. I won't say it was totally their fault, but maybe I just didn't try hard enough. I had problems with callbacks and getting results on parts. They were 4 hours from me, so it's not like I could just drive there. After the first year or so, I shut them out and took the issue to SC. The dealer found out and called me about it. It's all in the past and my boat is there right now getting a few things done to it. The dealer and SC have been pretty good about resolving the issues with my boat.
Old    Seth (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-21-2010, 6:27 AM Reply   
We were hot to buy a boat and had demo'd a 21V in May. Then we never heard back from them. After 2 calls with no returned call from the local dealer, we called through the state of WI, IL, and IN before we had a dealer return our call regarding inventory showing on their website. I ended up buying a boat through a dealer outside of Cinncinati (12 hrs away, great guys). And remember, I didn't get a return call from anyone, so it's not as if I'm price shopping. The weekend before we were to driving to OH to get the boat, the local dealer called to follow-up and I explained that no returned my call and we moved on. His response was matching the OH dealer's warranty and stating "if you ever have any service issues, buying local will make sure that you are a priority", basically a threat of poor service. Nice guy! I told the guy that on principle, the deal was done but that I appreciated the call. I was cordial

The OH dealer made sure that Supra was ok with the deal and checked with his rep. Both of them new that they would be losing a Supra sale if he didn't respond to my request.

From what I've heard, Supra owners that require local service have poor experiences with their service dept such that the Malibu dealer I take my boat to was not surprised when I called and they reluctantly confirmed that they had heard this from other Supra owners.

The whole thing almost cost Supra a sale. It's too bad. I'm just ticked that I have a boat issue and with no where to turn for handling it, unless it's out of pocket.

As much as love Supra, my next boat will either be a MC or a Malibu. Great local dealers!
Old    Seth (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-21-2010, 6:35 AM Reply   
John- Is your dealer out of IN? (something "Power Sports"?) If so, I think I spoke with them, too. They were very helpful but really didn't want to sell into MN. Rightfully so, dealers have semi-protected territories. He offered to call Supra and I told them I had one more dealer to call before I switched brands. That dealer was in OH and is the one that I bought from. They were closer to MN and also called Supra to explain what was happening.
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-21-2010, 7:51 AM Reply   
Seth, hate to hear that man. My local Supra/Moomba dealer was great, and if I was ever in a jam they went out of the way to get me in, even though I didn't buy the boat from them (though I planned to the next go-around). Unfortunately they went out of business.
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       03-21-2010, 2:09 PM Reply   
Seth, they aren't in Indiana.
Old    Justin (newmy79)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-22-2010, 6:16 PM Reply   
Hey everyone,

I've been talking to a guy who has a 2007 21v for sale. He mentioned that there was a recall on the hull and it had to be replaced so I am looking for some advice from other supra owners to see if this is something I should be seriously concerned with? He stated that the dealer noticed it 2 yrs. ago when it was being winterized and saw some cracking on the gel coat on the bottom of the hull towards the back. He mentioned that the dealer said it had to do with the year of the boat, can anyone else confirm or deny that? He talked about a ridge being hollow, but when they fixed it they filled in the ridge.

I'm going to talk to a friend of mine who owns a malibu dealership as well to get his perspective.
Old    Seth (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-22-2010, 7:19 PM Reply   
Haven't heard of anything like this. The only hull topics I've heard of are related to the speedo pick-up.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-23-2010, 6:42 AM Reply   
I have never heard this either.
Old    Tre (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002       03-23-2010, 10:06 AM Reply   
Seth,

You are about 5 hours from Lauderdale Lakes marina in WI (they are one of the top 5 Supra dealers in the US). They are my local dealer and good guys. Too bad you did not talk to them when you were looking to buy a boat. Jesse is the GM there and has part ownership. Bruce, the service manager, also has part ownership so you are dealing with people who all have a stake in making your experience good (and they do). Marty is the service advisor and he has helped me out many times over the years. good service and good guys at that place.
Old    Seth (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-25-2010, 5:09 PM Reply   
So the saga continues. I spoke with the local dealer and their comments were that they were not aware of any issues of this nature (speedo location on hull affecting PP). As I continued to explain the symptons sharing that one fix according to other Supra owners was to move the pick-up, the response was "well it sounds like the PP is working so if you wanted us to move the pick-up it wouldn't be a warranty related item".

Ok, so if I bought a car and it the engine ran but wouldn't allow the car to go faster than 30mph, wouldn't this be a warranty item or a product related issue?

My response was that I'm looking for a solution and assistance in solving the issue. To their credit, the dealer did call Skier's Choice and have given me a contact to call. I have since left a voicemail with this person at Skier's Choice.

I truly hope that this is a setting issue, but I have not been able to resolve it having spent a fair amount of time talking with PP personnel.
Old    Diggs (pdxWAKE) (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       03-25-2010, 8:28 PM Reply   
Seth,
I would take your dealers word that he is not aware of the issue. You gotta think that they probably did not sell a ton of that exact model boat that year and how many people are as passionate about it as we are on the boards. There really were not a ton of boats that got out before they figured it out. Either way very easy even if you had to do it on your own. Most people never really use their boats for what they are made for. They will know about it at the factory for sure and can tell your dealer what they need to do. Cheers
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-26-2010, 11:26 AM Reply   
I had a 07 22SSV Limited. The PP in that boat was the most dialed in boat I ever had. It did speed up or slow down in the turns. That is the nature of any paddle wheel driven system. Besides that, drivers are supposed to drive straight. Unnecessary turns are a huge pet peeve of mine
Old    Seth (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-26-2010, 4:35 PM Reply   
I probably need to qualify that that the "turns" that I'm referring to are less than 20 degree turns to continue a line along a shore that has a slight elbow. And the same thing occurs when I cross the wake from a HS trick and approach the wake again on the TS. Wake washes out.

I'm hoping that this is a setting so if you have suggestions, please share. Not bashing on Supra, just want to get it dialed.
Old    Chris Walker (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-27-2010, 1:58 PM Reply   
I have had a 07 & 09 22SSV. Both have had the bigger bags @ 2600lbs. Both boats paddlewheel setting=80 & KDW=180 with 3 people in boat. Add 10 to 20KDW for each 1000lbs of passangers when you are really loaded. Dialing in your boat may or may not be exactly these values but it should close. The feel you will be looking for is when the KDW is too high you will always run hot or overspeed on the set point. When you find that value back off KDW about 20 and you will see the speed settle right in.
Old    Seth (rourker)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-27-2010, 2:05 PM Reply   
Sweet! Seems like a good rule of thumb. Thanks, Chris. I'll give it a shot. Sounds like you didn't need to adjust the filtering regardless of weight. I know that I've played with this but maybe didn't have it set right to begin with.

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