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Old    Greg Wasson (lhlocal)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-10-2010, 9:20 AM Reply   
I live on a 350 or so acre lake in a private community. They have had a 20ft and 290 hp limit for quite awhile. There are maybe six wakeboard boats on the lake, all of which are illegal. There are also several deckboats and i/o's which are illiegal. I was frustrated with the current rule so decided to do something about it, and now Im on the board. Its a very mixed user base as far as skiers, fisherman, and tubers. We have tons of wallys on the weekend. Its still a great lake to ride on.

My problem is which arguements to use in justifying this hp increase. We had a new member approach the board for a variance, and we declined it. Instead we opted to consider a rule change. AT the next meeting I have to be able to justify this rule change to an audience comprised of mostly fisherman. They by the way are allowed I think around 175-200 hp on an out board. My arguments are as follows:

1. Decreased time to get the boat on plane resulting in less disturbance of the lake bottom. This is a big issue as our lake averages between 6 and 15 ft deep with a silty bottom.

2. No inboard manufacturers currently build boats with less than 310 hp.

3. Manufacturers are using the same blocks they were 5 years ago, fuel injection and new technology has led to an increase in hp.

4. In a ski boat, hp does not equal high speeds.

Feel free to add any additional valid points. Im also looking for a chart which shows the main manufacturers and their models with hp and length in one spreadsheet.

Thanks for the help.
Old    Andrew Carnacchi (07launch22ssv)      Join Date: Feb 2007       03-10-2010, 10:04 AM Reply   
if they argue speed most fishing boats with that kind of hp are much faster than any wakeboard boat, as well as most i/o's with v8's......
Old    Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)      Join Date: May 2004       03-10-2010, 10:12 AM Reply   
Why did they decide on 20ft and 290hp limit in the first place. that may help with your argument to overturn it. And when was the rule put in place ( how old is it?)?
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-10-2010, 10:21 AM Reply   
Your point #4 is a good topic to explain further to the uninformed. An inboard with 290hp will more than likely go just as fast as an inboard with 330hp.
Old    Stuey (stuey)      Join Date: Dec 2004       03-10-2010, 10:25 AM Reply   
What about weight vs hp? Just like the post above (which I think you meant outboard in the first example)

Maybe a top speed restriction would be a better way to go about it... how could you really police how much hp a boat is putting out while its on the lake?
Old    S Dub (sdub)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-10-2010, 10:46 AM Reply   
you mentioned that there are illegal boats on the lake now. who enforces the rules?

I might go at it by saying we have residents now who exceed the limits. Nobody is doing anything about it so, lets included them and change the rules.

Also come in with some info on how fast a 175hp outboard boat goes on a typical fishing type boat. Make them aware that hp and speed are two diff. components and wake boats are all about grunt and not speed.

Maybe find out, if possible, why those specific limits were made and how long ago the rule was put in place. If the rules are very old, go it like its time to update to new modern boat standards. Get them to put a speed limit on the lake, not a HP reqment.

lastly, be prepared for them to bring up the fact that wake boats put out big wakes. ( maybe they dont know that yet ). This came up at our lake. Some univ. did a study, and I cant find link right now, that wake action does very little erosioin to lake shores. This study attributed erosion to wind, not wake action.
Old    Greg Wasson (lhlocal)      Join Date: Jun 2003       03-11-2010, 4:21 PM Reply   
Thanks for the advice so far. I also have a couple local dealerships helping me gather info. We already have a speed limit, so we're good there. A couple years ago they formed a wakes committee. I presented the win study, and then it went from erosion to disturning the bottom. They didnt want to look at the physics of a deckboat with an i/o versus the draft of an inboard. Thats why I'm on the board now.

Im not sure how long the current restrictions have been in place or where the original numbers came from.
Old    TigeMike (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-11-2010, 5:46 PM Reply   
#2 - PCM offers a 275hp

#3 - Electronic fuel injection makes an engine more efficient, but has nothing to do with increased HP.
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-12-2010, 5:50 AM Reply   
Kudos for getting on the board and giving wakeboarders a voice.

I think the main thing I would argue is the intent of the original rules and the need for updating them to reflect the curent recreational boat market since the limit is already at 290HP. It would be a different matter if the limit was something like 150 or 200HP where inboards would have been historically over the limit so it is not like you are trying to get a new class of boats legal. Seems the intent of the existing rule is to allow small entry level runabouts and inboards but was designed to keep the lake free of cruisers and BIG recreational boats. I think I would emphasize what the entry level market looked like when the rule was implemented (lots of sub 20 footers under 290HP) for ski boats and what it looks like today and continue working with the local dealers. If you have a lot of fisherman to convince, I would lop ski and wakeboats in one group and not draw a whole lot of specific attention to wakeboats.

I probably wouldn't make a big deal about enforcement issues because shining light on that may take the group down a path you may or may not be happy with.
Old    Dwight Kinley (beretta5spd)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-12-2010, 8:18 AM Reply   
The fact that at high cruising speed (~40 mph) a 400 horsepower malibu makes less noise (in dbs) than a 175 hp evinrude outboard. There are stats online to prove that fact.
Old    Greg S (roomservice)      Join Date: Dec 2006       03-12-2010, 8:43 AM Reply   
all good points. I'd like to offer a couple more that might help. The growth market in boats in recent years has been inboards, the board should make accomodation for the lake users that include the most popular boats. and those are the inboard 21-23 footers with 300-375hp

And under the heading of looking to the future, the epic 21se is an electric hybrid, but it's a 21 footer, shouldn't the board open the rules to include an environmentally friendly boat?

Limiting top speed is always good since most wakeboarders arent the speed hounds like the you know whos.

I think opening up the hull length and the hp would be reasonable if the speed is limited, then no matter what hp is in a boat it really doesn't matter (except when it's fully sacked out and slammed, but we wont mention that part). the hp is there, you just cant go nuts with it.

the fishermen will gripe about the speed of course, but the question to them is, why? are there tournaments on the lake that require a blast off to the honey hole, ok, allow it for officially approved fishing tournament weekends only, and limit speed to 32 mph (or whatever) all other times. Its hard to argue that lowering the speeds will lower the over all chaos and that most likely the common goal.
Old    Jay Conrad (pwningjr)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-12-2010, 3:11 PM Reply   
I'd agree that in general a reduction to a speed limit only would be a good deal, say... 35 to 40 mph, that way you give the 'footers some room (they are generally the only people that _need_ to go that fast. A fisherman says he needs to go faster, but we all know it's only in tourneys it is actually important.).

This might be the first time I have heard of a wakeboarder having a say in lake rules. Way to go, man!
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       03-13-2010, 8:27 AM Reply   
If you want to help get rid of the 'wakeboat' impression that will affect some members of your community, and get rid of the horsepower rule, you should introduce a dB limit with a measurement technique that the board has approved. That eliminates stereo noise from deck boats, wake boats, and the house across the lake equally, and gets rid of the annoyance of the 'corsa' type side pipes or hot boats equally.
Your argument on length has to be that they decide to enforce the rules as they are and force residents to change their current boats, or adopt new rules that eliminate the problems, and let people use the lake for the recreation that it is intended for.

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