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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-22-2010, 11:17 AM Reply   
Just thought I would pass on a e-mail:

The Lawyers' Party
This is very interesting! I never thought about it this way. Perhaps this is why so many physicians are conservatives or Republicans.

The Democratic Party has become the Lawyers’ Party.
Barack Obama is a lawyer.
Michelle Obama is a lawyer.
Hillary Clinton is a lawyer.
Bill Clinton is a lawyer.
John Edwards is a lawyer.
Elizabeth Edwards is a lawyer.
Every Democrat nominee since 1984 went to law school (although Gore did not graduate).
Every Democrat vice presidential nominee since 1976, except for Lloyd Bentsen, went to law school.
Look at leaders of the Democrat Party in Congress:
Harry Reid is a lawyer.
Nancy Pelosi is a lawyer.

The Republican Party is different.
President Bush is a businessman.
Vice President Cheney is a businessman.
The leaders of the Republican Revolution:
Newt Gingrich was a history professor.
Tom Delay was an exterminator. Dick Armey was an economist.
House Minority Leader Boehner was a plastic manufacturer.
The former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist is a heart surgeon.
Who was the last Republican president who was a lawyer? Gerald Ford, who left office 31 years ago and who barely won the Republican nomination as a sitting president, running against Ronald Reagan in 1976.

The Republican Party is made up of real people doing real work, who are often the targets of lawyers.
The Democrat Party is made up of lawyers. Democrats mock and scorn men who create wealth, like Bush and Cheney, or who heal the sick, like Frist, or who immerse themselves in history, like Gingrich.

The Lawyers’ Party sees these sorts of people, who provide goods and services that people want, as the enemies of America . And, so we have seen the procession of official enemies, in the eyes of the Lawyers’ Party, grow.

Against whom do Hillary and Obama rail? Pharmaceutical companies, oil companies, hospitals, manufacturers, fast food restaurant chains, large retail businesses, bankers, and anyone producing anything of value in our nation.

This is the natural consequence of viewing everything through the eyes of lawyers.
Lawyers solve problems by successfully representing their clients, in this case the American people.
Lawyers seek to have new laws passed, they seek to win lawsuits, they press appellate courts to overturn precedent, and lawyers always parse language to favor their side.

Confined to the narrow practice of law, that is fine. But it is an awful way to govern a great nation.
When politicians as lawyers begin to view some Americans as clients and other Americans as opposing parties, then the role of the legal system in our life becomes all-consuming. Some Americans become “adverse parties” of our very government. We are not all litigants in some vast social class-action suit.
We are citizens of a republic that promises us a great deal of freedom from laws, from courts, and from lawyers.

Today, we are drowning in laws; we are contorted by judicial decisions; we are driven to distraction by omnipresent lawyers in all parts of our once private lives. America has a place for laws and lawyers, but that place is modest and reasonable, not vast and unchecked. When the most important decision for our next president is whom he will appoint to the Supreme Court, the role of lawyers and the law in America is too big. When lawyers use criminal prosecution as a continuation of politics by other means, as happened in the lynching of Scooter Libby and Tom Delay, then the power of lawyers in America is too great. When House Democrats sue America in order to hamstring our efforts to learn what our enemies are planning to do to us, then the role of litigation in America has become crushing.

We cannot expect the Lawyers’ Party to provide real change, real reform or real hope in America Most Americans know that a republic in which every major government action must be blessed by nine unelected judges is not what Washington intended in 1789. Most Americans grasp that we cannot fight a war when ACLU lawsuits snap at the heels of our defenders. Most Americans intuit that more lawyers and judges will not restore declining moral values or spark the spirit of enterprise in our economy.

Perhaps Americans will understand that change cannot be brought to our nation by those lawyers who already largely dictate American society and business. Perhaps Americans will see that hope does not come from the
mouths of lawyers but from personal dreams nourished by hard work. Perhaps Americans will embrace the truth that more lawyers with more power will only make our problems worse.

The United States has 5% of the world’s population and 66% of the world’s lawyers! Tort (Legal) reform legislation has been introduced in congress several times in the last several years to limit punitive damages in ridiculous lawsuits such as “spilling hot coffee on yourself and suing the establishment that sold it to you” and also to limit punitive damages in huge medical malpractice lawsuits. This legislation has continually been blocked from even being voted on by the Democrat Party. When you see that 97% of the political contributions from the American Trial Lawyers Association goes to the Democrat Party, then you realize who is responsible for our medical and product costs being so high!
Old     (fogey)      Join Date: Mar 2002       01-22-2010, 12:01 PM Reply   

Okay, so I'm a lawyer, and I can say that I see lawyers serve in valuable roles in society every day. They work to protect rights, seek justice, and - yes - help businesses succeed.

Still, I think the practice of law soaks up far too many of our "best and brightest" who could make much more valuable contributions in other fields. I admire and value the efforts of entrepreneurs more than almost any lawyer I know. And I agree that lawyers are way too prominent in government. This posting does provide food for thought.
Old     (dcdave56)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-22-2010, 12:54 PM Reply   
One of my best friends is a lawyer and I've seen his perspective on the world change for the worse since he passed the bar. Lawyers will be the death of this country. They've gotten us where we are currently...
Old     (wakescene)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-22-2010, 1:22 PM Reply   
David C, I too am in the same boat as you. Friend of mine became a lawyer, and now I keep him at arms distance.
Old     (mammoth)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-22-2010, 2:12 PM Reply   
New low.
Old     (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-22-2010, 2:15 PM Reply   
George W. was such a successful businessman before he became president...

I find it funny you bash on the lawyers when all Congress does is make law. Wouldn't you want experts in the field making those choices? If you need surgery do you go see a doctor or your auto mechanic?
Old     (hbguy)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-22-2010, 2:18 PM Reply   
Yep, lawyers make horrible presidents. Andrew Jackson, FDR, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and Abe Lincoln had no clue what they were doing.
Old     (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       01-22-2010, 2:28 PM Reply   
The funniest part about this post is using Bush, Cheney, and Delay as some sort of example of the GREAT SUCCESS of non-lawyers.
Old     (fogey)      Join Date: Mar 2002       01-22-2010, 2:30 PM Reply   
Laws aren't created in a vacuum. They prescribe and embody policy. I'd rather have subject matter experts involved in policy-making and lawyers drafting laws to implement those policies than have lawyers make policy in areas they know nothing about.
Old     (lukewtwt)      Join Date: Apr 2003       01-22-2010, 2:37 PM Reply   
Everyone derides lawyers, until they go through a divorce (and need a lawyer), or they want to draw up a will (and need a lawyer), or find themselves a victim of a crime (and enter a system where the prosecutor, judge, and defense attorney are all lawyers).

Next time your house is broken into, or your car is stolen, or you get robbed, call a plumber, because we all know you wouldn't want a lawyer helping you out.
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-22-2010, 2:55 PM Reply   
Wouldn't you want experts in the field making those choices?

In most instances, but it seems the 'experts' in this case have traded a liberal education for common sense.
Old     (detonate69)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-22-2010, 3:20 PM Reply   
There's a reason they call it "practicing" law. Not a damn one of them are experts in anyway.
Old     (tense)      Join Date: Sep 2001       01-22-2010, 3:21 PM Reply   
Luke, District Attorneys are the exception, not the rule.

with a few exceptions, lawyers are a despicable group. And, most divorce lawyers are thieves void of morals!
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-22-2010, 3:37 PM Reply   
This OP makes no sense (not surprisingly). Bob Dole (96 repub candidate) went to law school. His wife, Senator Dole is a lawyer.

Tom Delay got expelled from A&M for drinking and defacing property, and years later got caught up in a huge lobbyist scandal, lol.

81 current Repub congressman are lawyers.
123 current Dem congressmen are lawyers.
Given how many more Dems than Repubs are in both houses right now, this sounds about even, if not tipped towards Repubs.

And it explains a lot about Washington in general

This statement is just ridiculous, and sums up the worthiness of the original post pretty well:

The Republican Party is made up of real people doing real work, who are often the targets of lawyers.
The Democrat Party is made up of lawyers. Democrats mock and scorn men who create wealth, like Bush and Cheney, or who heal the sick, like Frist, or who immerse themselves in history, like Gingrich.
Old     (bobbym)      Join Date: Dec 2005       01-22-2010, 3:52 PM Reply   
For my company, 90% of my clients are lawyers - I've learned a lot from dealing with them, and I've seen a little glimpse into how the law business really works.

Overall, I think would only ever reccommend about 5% of the lawyers I've ever met to anyone, for a professional or personal thing - meaning that I would rather not have anything to do with 95% of lawyers I know besides have them as a client for my services. Does that differ from what I think of the general population? Probably. I usually like most people I meet.

This is only based on about 80 clients and about 300 meeting with various attorneys. But man, how I've learned to negotiate and run my business based on perception and risk!

Divorce lawyers really reflect the good and bad in people. Some will play on your emotions to get more money of the case - they create conflict that requires more time to resolve, so they make more money.
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-22-2010, 4:09 PM Reply   
Jeff, I had no idea you're a lawyer. Can I get in trouble for posting nude pictures of my ex girlfriend on the internet?
Old     (eustace)      Join Date: Nov 2002       01-22-2010, 4:32 PM Reply   
The way I see it lawyers do their best to complicate the laws mandating that the rest of us use their service’s to decode the ‘therefores and hereins’.

I’ve run into a few people in business who use that same tactic of developing problems that only they can solve. Usually those turds get outted!
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       01-25-2010, 7:53 AM Reply   
"Can I get in trouble for posting nude pictures of my ex girlfriend on the internet"

Not at all. Post away.
Old     (mammoth)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-25-2010, 8:03 AM Reply   
...and speaking of Bush. Remember the conservative republican lawyer that put Bush in office? Ted Olson. Anyone know what he's up to lately?
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       01-25-2010, 8:28 AM Reply   
"Jeff, I had no idea you're a lawyer. Can I get in trouble for posting nude pictures of my ex girlfriend on the internet?"

Old     (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-25-2010, 8:52 AM Reply   
Benjamin gets post of the week.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-25-2010, 10:38 AM Reply   
At the end of the day, NONE of our politicians have ever run a SUCCESSFUL business and had to deal with the taxes/bureacracy/BS they create on a daily basis. They're all career politicians who don't have to live by the "policies" they dream up while supporting their own little special interests.

And yes, Benjamin gets post of the week.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       01-25-2010, 12:18 PM Reply   
"Next time your house is broken into, or your car is stolen, or you get robbed,"

actually, I will call the police. I won't need a lawyer if any of that happens. at least not if I dont catch them in the act. then I will need a lawyer.

most lawyers are decent folks. it is the ambulance chasers filing frivolous lawsuits for clients who have no clue what is going on who are the ones who need to go away.
Old     (lukewtwt)      Join Date: Apr 2003       01-25-2010, 5:12 PM Reply   
Train, after the police arrest the guy, who do you think takes the case to trial?

Oh, right, a lawyer. Prosecutors are lawyers too. Just not necessarily ones who are in it for the money. Point being, this broad generalization about lawyers accomplishes nothing.
Old     (mellowman)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-26-2010, 6:54 AM Reply   
"NONE of our politicians have ever run a SUCCESSFUL business "

lol....yeah ok. Obama didn't run anything, but there are polticians who have.
Old     (bradmo42)      Join Date: Jan 2006       01-26-2010, 7:11 AM Reply   
Thanks el doubleyou.

I would LOVE to tear this "argument" apart. I doubt I can find time, but I will most definitely try.

- (law student)

"The Republican Party is made up of *real* people doing *real* work, who are often the targets of lawyers" - yea.. uh huh..

(Message edited by bradmo42 on January 26, 2010)
Old     (kraig)      Join Date: Dec 2002       01-26-2010, 11:56 AM Reply   
Wow! I have said for a long time that lawyers are tearing this country apart. I see the need for them, just like alot of other services and businesses and positions. Lawyers are killing what makes this country great. Yes, there are alot of good lawyers and there are times when they are needed, but for the most part lawyers overstep the 'Need' line and go after people for money. It's no coincidence that I'm not a big fan of lawyers and I'm also a conservative even though I never knew that most all democrats are lawyers. This explains ALOT!

Again, great article!
Old     (onthewatermo)      Join Date: Jan 2008       01-26-2010, 12:27 PM Reply   
Conservative Politics and Morality
-“Justice for all” is non-partisan.
- No man, woman, company or industry is above the law.
- Equal protection of the law is a core belief of conservatives, Republicans and trial lawyers.
- Conservatives, most Republicans and trial lawyers oppose big government and federal regulation of matters that the states have historically managed.
- Our morals-based civil justice system rejects the notion of different rights, standards and responsibilities for rich vs. poor, powerful vs. powerless.

Conservative Free Market System
- Trial lawyers practice conservative economic philosophy, which lets the force of economic markets separate the weak from the strong, good products from bad products, valuable and competent services from substandard or dangerous services.
- Maintaining a sound, principled civil justice system is a core value of trial lawyers and conservatism.
- Our fiscally responsible tort system . . .
- Presumes those causing injuries will pay the cost of those injuries instead of dumping their irresponsibility onto the public tab.
- Ensures that corporate polluters and negligent killers will not profit by selling lethal products, then sticking the public with the bill.

- Makes it economically unwise for a company to sell dangerous or defective products.

The Jury System
“ I consider trial by jury as the only anchor ever yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution” Thomas Jefferson

- The dominant purpose of government is to promote individual freedoms.
- Limits, caps and other restrictions on consumer rights interfere with personal responsibility and accountability.
- Our jury system promotes justice and fairness, protects the public, and protects market integrity.

My name is Andy, I'm a lawyer, and I like to party.
Old     (puckinshat)      Join Date: Sep 2003       01-26-2010, 1:02 PM Reply   

I agree with 100% of what you just wrote, I just wish it was true in our society.

...and I too like to party.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       01-26-2010, 1:14 PM Reply   
I like to party as well.
Old     (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-26-2010, 2:53 PM Reply   
- No man, woman, company or industry is above the law.
.....unless they have a really good lawyer.

Our fiscally responsible tort system . . .
- Presumes those causing injuries will pay the cost of those injuries instead of dumping their irresponsibility onto the public tab.
- Ensures that corporate polluters and negligent killers will not profit by selling lethal products, then sticking the public with the bill.

....with a healthy little cha-ching for the trial lawyers wink wink nod nod.
Old     (onthewatermo)      Join Date: Jan 2008       01-26-2010, 4:05 PM Reply   
Dude, you're going to blow our cover. Fine, so a lot of people think that lawyers have too much power and make too much money and they're probably right, but does mean all attorneys are "killing what makes this country great" or "tearing this country apart"? - in the words of 311, "misdirected hostility, that's what you got see". Are there lawyers who are negatively impacting our society? -yes but in that same breath, I'll concede that there are bad doctors, businessmen and the like who do the same.
One of the reasons so many people dislike attorneys is because in many cases when we are involved, there are two sides with distinctly different views of what is right. Many divorces are contentious, lawsuits over land usually end with one party fuming. When people come to us, there's typically someone on the other side who isn't going to like the fact that we're jumping in the fight and as in many fights, there typically is a clear victor/loser. For every "coffee on lap" case you cite, I'll tell you about a "doctor cut off the wrong leg" case (not to pick on doctors because there is a quite integral role for them in our society), or a "my car got totaled in a wreck that wasn't my fault, the other guy was drunk, and I need help".
Is our legal system perfect? - far from it, but it has been shaped over time it based on the feedback from the masses into our present day set of laws and means for enforcing them.
How do I sleep at night? - sometimes not well because I find myself taking on the problems of my clients. Just the other day when preparing for a case I was thinking to myself, "I need to prevail in this matter because Mr. X has been unable to work since his on the job injury over a year ago (requiring multiple surgeries and partial amputation)...he needs me to be his voice and get him what he is entitled to under the law for his sake and for his family." Know what thought didn't cross my mind? - "I need to win because that will make us some money...". There are some attorneys who give us a bad name, but don't use those broad brushstrokes to paint us all because you never know if you're going to be the next person in my office who says, "I never thought I'd sue anyone but I need your help".
Dammit, why didn't I just type, "don't hate the player, hate the game"?
My name is Andy, I'm an attorney, and I like to party.

Old     (markoranovich)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-29-2010, 11:14 PM Reply   
Lawyers are not drowning us; stupid laws are. You cannot regulate or force common sense on people. How's that "texting" and "cellphone" law working out? Not a damn change in crash statistics. Waste of time, waste of money.

The part we are all missing these days is common sense and responsibility.

What happened to the paperboy?

(Message edited by markoranovich on January 29, 2010)
Old     (magicr)      Join Date: May 2004       01-30-2010, 7:18 AM Reply   
"What happened to the paperboy?"

He just delivered my paper about 15 minutes ago.
Old     (fogey)      Join Date: Mar 2002       01-30-2010, 9:42 AM Reply   
Very well said, Andy, and reflective of the attorneys I know personally.

But I also agree with Mark - a key problem is that our reflexive response to every problem is enact yet another law. We've been doing that for decades, and we have to keep making new laws to address the deficiencies of the laws that already were enacted. In the meantime, our liberty is constantly being chipped away.

It' not a partisan thing, either. A prime example of Republicans doing this is passing federal(!) legislation to control the Terri Shiavo matter. That was disgusting.

I continue to feel that we'd have a better laws if members of Congress had training and experience in a wider range of disciplines instead of predominantly being lawyers.

But getting back OT, and speaking from inside the bar, I believe it's absurd to dispute the idea that attorneys do not predominantly align with, contribute huge amounts of money to, and effect the policies of, the Democratic Party. That's just a fact.
Old     (baldboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       01-30-2010, 7:40 PM Reply   
To me, it depends on what type of lawyer a person is. Lawyers who use stupid laws to shake down honest law abiding citizens and keep 90% and use plaintiffs for a to give them a skimpy 10% with their class action lawsuits need to shot and hung. Lawyers who serve well deserving citizens who have been wronged and have legitimate damages by unscrupulous people are to be congratulated. I think you catch my drift.
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       02-01-2010, 9:57 AM Reply   
My brother could not teach, so he became a lawyer
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-01-2010, 10:58 AM Reply   
more pics!


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