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Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-11-2010, 8:06 PM Reply   
Alright, I know there are some gun owners on this forum and I want to get an idea of what your thoughts are on the oldest question in the world. 9mm or 40? I know if comes down to personal preference, but I'm taking votes to help me make up my mind. Now I know there will be those who say 45, 357, a bazooka, but the gun that fits my hand well, a XD sub compact or XDm only comes in 9 or 40. So, with that said, what'da think?
Old    Nick B (iridelow1998)      Join Date: Jun 2006       01-11-2010, 8:33 PM Reply   
Depends on what you're buying the gun for. 9mm rounds are cheaper than 40 but the 40 is going to have much better stopping power if you're looking for home protection.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-11-2010, 8:56 PM Reply   
i carry a .40
i don't shoot too often so the price per round isn't a concern. I chose the .40 for the reason Dirt Dog stated and i was told that the .40 was a combination of an accurate round w/enough knock-down. where 9 may be easier to be accurate with and a 45 being more guaranteed "defense" but may be harder to be accurate with when you need it (unless you shoot alot, in which case you can become proficient w/any round). I'm sure someone may disagree w/my assessment, but that's what i was told. and i'm a pretty good shot w/it.

(Message edited by snyder on January 11, 2010)
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-11-2010, 8:57 PM Reply   
Dirt, it's that question for a question. There is not all round perfect size bullet. Cost vs Power vs Recoil vs Supply vs etc, etc, etc. :-) It is for home defense, but maybe for CC. After watching some gun reviews on YouTube, I think I may have decided on 40, but the 9mm ammo is cheaper.... I'll have to decide soon as I may go talk about my order tomorrow.
Old    Chris (rio_sanger)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-11-2010, 9:02 PM Reply   
I'd go 40, when your life is at stake, does it matter how much a round costs?
Old    Nick B (iridelow1998)      Join Date: Jun 2006       01-11-2010, 9:03 PM Reply   
If you're looking at home defense I would go with the 40cal. Depending on what make you go with CC probably won't be an issue either. I carry either a 40 or 45 for the stopping power reason. I've also got a couple of 9mm for some target practice with the wife, etc. If you're mainly looking at home protection I'd say the 40 hands down over the 9mm. Unless you'll be at the range every month which most home protection weapons aren't the ammo cost shouldn't be a huge factor in your decision.
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-11-2010, 9:05 PM Reply   
BTW,if you intend to carry, since it sounds like you're looking at the subcompact... if i'm not wrong, the frame on all 3 (9, 40, 45) is the same so caliber shouldn't matter for that. most people who get into shooting and also carry will have a gun to
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-11-2010, 10:16 PM Reply   
Couple of things:

Knock down power is a myth.
A handgun is a fairly poor self defense tool.
A shotgun is the most practical home defense tool followed by a baseball bat.
Trauma(read: blood loss) is the name of the incapacitation game.
Low velocity projectile wounds tend to close on themselves slowing blood loss, larger is better which can be *almost* duplicated by velocity(rifle).
The accuracy of the round is not important at self defense distances. You will lose all fine motor skills and your ability to be a bullseye shooter will go out the window anyway.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-11-2010, 10:28 PM Reply   
The frame on the XD 9mm and .40S&W are the same. The .45acp is larger. There is no such thing as a .45acp sub-compact, but they did introduce a compact version.. still, much larger than the 9mm/.40S&W
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-11-2010, 11:04 PM Reply   
My feeling on home defense...

#1 a dog that barks for deterrent and warning.
#2 a pump shotgun for deterrent and stopping power.
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-12-2010, 6:20 AM Reply   
Kind of what I was suspecting. Thanks for the info and solidifying the fact that I really need to get the 40. After watching a gun review on YouTube last night, I think I decided to go with the 40 XDM. It's got a 4.5" barrel, which is longer than the 40 sub compact (3" barrel), but I'm thinking that the longer barrel will help calm the recoil that I'm not used to yet. It may help my aim as well.

Any other thoughts?

(Message edited by wakeboardingdad on January 12, 2010)
Old    Rob VLX (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       01-12-2010, 7:05 AM Reply   
40 is a good choice. 9mm/40 ammo is about the same these days. Both are running around $11-12 box (50) in Texas. You may be surprised on the barrel length. I shoot a Glock 19/23 much better than a full sized 17/22. See which gun naturally points better for you. I don't shoot the XD line but lots of people like them.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-12-2010, 7:09 AM Reply   
I've read that .45 ACP is the most accurate handgun caliber, hands down. Combined with ballistics of the caliber, IMO it would hard to shoot anything else.

Can you carry a .45? not very easily... Is this for house or your person?
Old    Pound (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       01-12-2010, 7:37 AM Reply   
good points Barry. specifically regarding fine motor skills WRT adrenaline.

I couldn't imagine having to actually use my handgun for defense. I pray to God I never have to.
Old    Jagermaster (jaegermaster)      Join Date: Sep 2002       01-12-2010, 7:48 AM Reply   
Barry pretty much summed it up.

I think if you are concerned with home defense, get a good shotgun and take a class on how to use it properly. If you are going to carry, carry the biggest round that works for you. For me it's .45. I carry every day, all day, easily.

Be safe.
Old    Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-12-2010, 7:48 AM Reply   
OMG!


quote:

By chris (rio_sanger) on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 9:02 pm:
I'd go 40, when your life is at stake, does it matter how much a round costs?




Yes, when your life is at stake you should go for a caliber that:

1) You can actually get at the store and practice with. Practice! Practice! Practice!

2) You can buy 9mm everywhere! I can't find one box of .40 anywhere.


quote:

By Nacho (denverd1) on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 7:09 am:
I've read that .45 ACP is the most accurate handgun caliber, hands down. Combined with ballistics of the caliber, IMO it would hard to shoot anything else.

Can you carry a .45? not very easily... Is this for house or your person?




??? What do you mean you can't carry .45 very easily? There are tons of compact .45's, like the Smith and Wesson that I have in my pocket...

Upload

I have never seen a more preposterous thread...
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-12-2010, 7:57 AM Reply   
Yes, there are subcompact .45s. Sounds like this is a first gun. I wouldn't want to put enough rounds through that hand cannon to get comfortable with it.
Old    Sinko (sinkoumn)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-12-2010, 7:59 AM Reply   
Personal preference. Go to the range and shoot all the guns your wrists can handle. Then make the decision of what gun is the best setup for you. Once you have it, keep practicing.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       01-12-2010, 8:21 AM Reply   
I bought a .45. The shells are expensive, but its fun to shoot.

I am pretty sure if I shot someone with it, they would not be getting up. Plus, if I ever had to, its a lot less of a mess to clean up than shredding someone with a shotgun.
Old    GoodTimes (bennygoodx)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-12-2010, 9:47 AM Reply   
My preference....

Home - Shotgun

Car - .45 / I dislike the .40 cal

On Person - whatever you are comfortable with AND can conceal well.

There is nothing worse than a criminal knowing you have a gun before he/she commits a crime. You will go first!
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-12-2010, 10:16 AM Reply   
Shotguns are #1 by far but you need both hands to use one. If I had someone pinned down in my living room I'd like to have a free hand to call the Po Po. That's where the .40 shines in my mind.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       01-12-2010, 10:34 AM Reply   
I agree.... A loaded pump 12 guage by your bed screams home defense.
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-12-2010, 10:39 AM Reply   
What Barry said is true and I have a synthetic Remington 870 12-gauge Supermag for that purpose, and duck hunting. To answer your question though here's another vote for the .40 over the 9mm. I've had a Sig P229 in .40 for years and it's a great gun but I'm a 1911 fan now. I am currently looking for a new Dan Wesson Bobtail .45ACP but I'm having a hard time finding one. The one's I've found are in 10mm.
Old                01-12-2010, 10:50 AM Reply   
I have an XDM9 and shoot with it a good bit. It has been flawless so far after about 2000 rounds. Of all the guns I have and thats a lot by some peoples standard it is my favorite. I read an article by the FBI (I believe)long ago about the difference in impact between a 9mm and 40. They said they chose an agency to carry 9mm because the damage was similar but there was a much shorter time to get your sights back on target between the 9mm and the 40. Supposedly the 40 took much longer to get back on target than the 9. I have several 9s and several 40s and with my shooting style I am MUCH more accurate in fast groupings with the 9...Take that for what you will. Sometimes bigger isnt always better

(Message edited by tbonez on January 12, 2010)

(Message edited by tbonez on January 12, 2010)
Old    JTW (sangerlover)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-12-2010, 11:21 AM Reply   
I am a little bit more on target with my XD9 than my Glock 22 40. cal but really do like each one. Flip a coin on the 40 cal vs the 9mm and you will be fine with either.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-12-2010, 11:31 AM Reply   
Sometimes bigger isnt always better

Maybe for some things, but when it comes to incapacitating a determined adversary with a hand gun bigger is always better. People don't usually drop when they've been shot. Many times they don't even realize they've been shot until moments later..The odds of immediately stopping a determined adversary with a handgun is pretty slim
unless the projectile strikes an organ or nerve that controls involuntary movement. Wounds to the heart/lungs aren't even guaranteed.. nothing with a handgun is, there are way too many variables. People are so accustomed to believing that once an adversary is shot the gunshot victim is immediately incapacitated.. they're shocked when the adversary continues the attack or overpowers them.

If you're training for defense don't train by trying to put 10 projectiles into the same hole. Remember, trauma is the key to incapacitation and you're sending projectiles through a hole that's already there.. why? In a high pressure situation you will shoot how you train. Buy a couple silhouette targets or use something the same size.. all you're worried about is keeping it within the torso. More holes mean more trauma.. more trauma increases your chance of stopping a determined adversary.

(Message edited by barry on January 12, 2010)
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-12-2010, 12:15 PM Reply   
It's been a long time since I looked but I believe the energy delivered from a .40 is closer to a .45 than a 9mm. It's true that it may take longer to get back on target but there are other factors involved like the size and weight of the gun, grip, load chosen, etc.

My ex found that a full-frame 1911 .45ACP was easier to shoot than my Sig .40 or a Glock sub-compact 9mm. It points more naturally and the beavertail grip and heavy slide was easier to control the recoil.
Old                01-12-2010, 12:44 PM Reply   
Barry,

At first your post seems to contradict mine and then it seems to agree with it. I guess my point is that the research shows that you can get more lead into a target with a 9mm vs a 40. 40s are GREAT guns but they are known for their recoil. That means by the time I can get off a single round, recover and then put another bullet on the target with a 40 I already have two in the target and am sighting in my third with a 9mm. Granted I practice fast groupings extensively.

A LOT of smart guys have killed this discussion on gun boards so I doubt we will ever solve the discussion. To me its about preference and that preference is what do you feel confident getting lead on a target with..To me thats a 9mm. I've tested myself with virtual every round and my best for speed is the 9mm and dead on accuracy is a 1911....
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-12-2010, 1:27 PM Reply   
A lot of good things (and bad) has been said already. Just my .02...

Shoot whatever you are most comfortable and accurate with...especially for double taps and follow ups. Like Barry implied...the more the better...within reason. You cannot miss fast enough with large bullets to make up for one hit with a smaller round. I would much rather be missed by someone with a 44 long colt than hit with a 22lr.

I prefer a handgun for HD for a few reasons: I can pick up a small child if needed with the free hand while still having SOME defensive ability to fire. I can carry a second flashlight to be used as a weapon/tool. I can open the doors to a loved ones room to protect them while still maintaining a better level of defense than with an HD shotgun. When it comes to HD its all very close range, messy and often times there are more misses than hits (statistically speaking). I like the idea of fast reloads and the ability to light up a corner if the intruder is retreating behind a wall (hence putting 7-9 rounds through the wall, loading a new mag while keeping one in the chamber....essentially suppressing fire combined with "slicing the pie".
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-12-2010, 1:37 PM Reply   
I use an AK-47 for home defense.

Let's see that mofo get up with a full clip inside of his body.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-12-2010, 1:40 PM Reply   
I'd like to see you aim after seeing the flash from one shot.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-12-2010, 2:20 PM Reply   
Tbonz,
We're addressing two different issues.
You're addressing caliber with regards to ability to strike a target.. I am addressing caliber regarding severity of trauma inflicted upon the strike.
I'm not a caliber snob.. :-) I do not disagree that a person should select the weapon/caliber that affords them the ability to strike their target effectively and as quickly as possible.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-12-2010, 2:20 PM Reply   
LOL.. No kidding, nacho.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-12-2010, 2:28 PM Reply   
Not just the flash but the likely noise and concussion inside your home...not to mention that if your eyes are adjusted to darkness!
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-12-2010, 3:48 PM Reply   
Even if I miss, a few rounds the robber will be chitting his pants and bye bye Mr. Home Intruder. And if that fails...

Well, my backup weapon happens to be ninja throwing stars.

(Message edited by wake77 on January 12, 2010)
Old    Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-12-2010, 3:58 PM Reply   

quote:

By Jeremy (wake77) on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 1:37 pm:
I use an AK-47 for home defense.

Let's see that mofo get up with a full clip inside of his body.




Have you thought about over penetration? That round will end up in your neighbors house after it goes through three or four walls in your own house...
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       01-12-2010, 4:43 PM Reply   
Well...you know the ole addage, "Peace through superior firepower."
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-12-2010, 7:04 PM Reply   
Wow! This is some good info. I do go to a gun forum from time to time, but wanted another persepective. Honestly, I have a 9mm now, but it is not comfortable. I am going to buy a gun to carry and try to live with. I admit that I do not like recoil. Perhaps that will go away with time. Maybe I just need to realize that while I like this XD now, it may not be the gun I carry forever and ever. While I am comfortable with the recoil of it now, perhaps after going through a few cases, my comfort level will increase and my abilities too. Which is probably why a high percentage of gun holders eventually end up with a 45. I have a 20 ga. for HD, but will also depend on my hand gun too.

I appreciate the great responses.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-12-2010, 10:20 PM Reply   
Practice with your weapon until you're completely comfortable with the recoil, it will get better. For a defensive weapon I would not consider anything smaller than a 9mm. You can reduce perceived recoil by selecting a weapon with a low bore axis. The closer the bore axis to your hand the less recoil is felt..

Upload
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-13-2010, 5:50 AM Reply   
Barry, thanks for that perspective. I really never thought of that before, but it does make great sense.
Old    Ryan (bsebllhglyknit)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-13-2010, 5:56 AM Reply   
I don't know why every says ammo is hard to get. I carry a glock 27 and was able to pick up 1000 rounds online. Order online and you save money. I was paying $23 a box at my local range, I ordered online and it works out to close to $13 a box. You can find any ammo you want online. The price differance between 9 and 40 is not that differant.
Check ammunition to go for bulk pistol ammo
Old    Rob VLX (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       01-13-2010, 6:49 AM Reply   
The common handgun round I'd LEAST enjoy getting shot with would be 40 135gr +P (Cor-Bon). That is a ridiculous bullet against light clothing- it mushrooms over twice its original size. I have a Glock 45ACP, enjoy shooting it, would carry it if needed and have no problems with it. But, give me a 9, 40, 357sig, 10, or 45 and I am proficient enough to stop someone dead in their tracks with any of them. Give me a Benelli 12 gauge and the perp will be in two large pieces when the cops arrive. Great shooting beats bad shooting with a great bullet and caliber 100% of the time.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-13-2010, 9:54 AM Reply   
Rob, what are your thoughts on using that CorBon for HD? I have been struggling with whether to make that my HD round or not. How is the recoil versus a target ammo such as the WWB 40...? I am assuming I will need atleast 1k of them to practice with enough to feel comfortable which is why I am hesitant to jump into the round.

Also, in the great litigious state of CA there is a fair bit of argument about using a target round versus a home defense round. People tend to think a HD round (hollow point, +P, etc.) will make you look trigger happy, whereas a target round looks like you were not intending to do some dirty work but it was a last resort. What's everyone's thoughts on this...ever heard the argument in a courtroom against a homeowner?
Old    Tailgate (tailgate)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-13-2010, 10:20 AM Reply   
M-Dizzle, Ive heard that argument as well, but never heard if it holds up in court or is ever an issue...
I have a pistol that only feeds certain HP rounds well, so that could be a counter argument.

What are the thoughts on the glaser safety slug for HD, a guy at the local shop showed me how he stripes his magazines, with different bullets...
Old    Richard Coop (mendo247)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-13-2010, 10:22 AM Reply   
Shoot to kill, if your life is in immediate danger. Otherwise protect your family and get out and call the police. No need to be a hero and youll save yourself worrying about legalities... I know two people who have killed home intruders and one who had a home intruder walk into the barrell of his pistol. The guys who killed the intruders both spent a couple days locked up and were then released. The other guy had to call the police dept the other day cause the same crazy neighbor that broke into his house 2 years ago was in his yard with an axe screaming for him to come out and fight last week lol
Old    Rob VLX (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       01-13-2010, 10:59 AM Reply   
M-Dizzle... I wouldn't burn through 1000 rounds of Cor-Bon +P. I practice with regular 40 (non +P). I tend to think the adrenaline of a hairy situation would negate the +P additional recoil. If you are good with cheap plinking ammo you'll be fine with +P ammo. What I do is shoot hundreds of regular rounds then shoot 10 or so of +P. I shoot the HD stuff just enough to make sure it feeds 100% reliable. I don't feel much additional recoil at all. To me a 180gr regular feels about the same as a 135gr +P. I carry 9mm 124 +P+ in my Glock 26 carry gun and it shoots fire about 2' out of the gun! I love shooting those flame thrower round.

I wouldn't worry about a courtroom situation. Your choice of ammo would be easy for any competent attorney to defend.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-13-2010, 12:55 PM Reply   
I agree wholeheartedly Richard; living in a two story home there is only ONE safe exit out and I am not going to take that without addressing the intruder first. My home's layout makes me VERY open to attack from many different angles as I attempt to exit. Combine that with the common statistic that crimes committed at gun point end in violence more often than not and I am playing it safe.

FWIW Going on the attack is very situational. If I believed the intruder had a weapon and the situation permitted it I would, otherwise my initial response is to play defense and protect. Idiots tend to believe what they see on television and that they can hide behind two pieces of sheetrock and some insulation keeping them "safe". Depending on the situation that can pose a potential opportunity to end the conflict highly tipping the scales in my favor. Firing back (accurately) when under fire takes a LOT of huevos...heck I probably couldnt!

Thanks Rob, I will pick some up and check it out.
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-14-2010, 9:42 AM Reply   
Btw, I found that Dan Wesson CCOB .45ACP yesterday that I've been looking for and bought it:-)
Old    GoodTimes (bennygoodx)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-14-2010, 10:23 AM Reply   
Buy defense rounds. Always shoot to kill.

If you don't shoot to kill, or say you just wanted to hit him in the legs to stop him AND then end up killing him, you will be in the hot seat.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-14-2010, 10:50 AM Reply   
If you shoot to stop a true threat you're justified.
Once the threat is stopped you'd better stop.

Goodtimes, if you make the statement " I shot to kill" you will do time, justified or not. Your justification ends when the threat stops. If the adversary dies as a result of your defense then you're still justified as long as the force was necessary. Once the threat ceases you'd better cease... if you send one into the adversary and he gives up and ceases to be a threat, you'd better stop, too.

Always shoot to stop the threat when force is necessary and no more. You're going to get yourself into trouble.
Old    GoodTimes (bennygoodx)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-14-2010, 11:18 AM Reply   
I didn't say or never would " I shoot to kill" EVER. That's not my MO. My point was to not "try to shoot strategically". I understand well that it really becomes about the nature of the threat and the persistence of the threat. Makes total sense, and thanks for the clarification.
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       01-14-2010, 1:23 PM Reply   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tom_500_nightfiring.jpg

My next gun. Isn't practical, but its BA!
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-14-2010, 2:08 PM Reply   
No,no.. thank you for the clarification....I just don't want to see anyone get into trouble.
Old    alan plotz (alanp)      Join Date: Apr 2001       01-14-2010, 4:56 PM Reply   
i would buy a .40 for the stopping power. paired with 165 grain bullet and you'll have all you need for home protection. dea, fbi, cbp all shoot .40's. im not sure what atf or the marshals use but i would bet its .40 too.
Old    MikeS (mikes)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-14-2010, 6:32 PM Reply   
get both
Old    Akadirtbikingdad (wakeboardingdad)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-14-2010, 7:55 PM Reply   
Well, I asked a guy at work, who is a LEO and sort of a collector, if he had a used XDM or sub XD sub compact. He actually had a slightly used XDM 40 and said he was thinking of selling it! I nearly fell out of my chair! The price was right, so I bought it. So, now I need to choose my ammo. Been getting some nice info here. Thanks again. With the info I have gotten here, it has already got me to thinking on what to fire in it. The one thing that I saw here, but had never seen before was +P. According to Wiki, it is supposed to say the gun is +P ready if it is stamped on the barrel. The XD is not, so I guess +P is out of the question for it.
Old    MikeS (mikes)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-14-2010, 8:22 PM Reply   
Enjoy. One of my employees has an XDM in .40 and I think it shoots nicely. Don't forget a quality light to go with it or on it for home defense
Old    Nickbot (nickbot)      Join Date: Feb 2007       01-15-2010, 9:56 AM Reply   
Regarding HD ammo, one good way to choose is to ask the local PD what they use. it's also a good answer to the potential court question "why did you NEED hollowpoints??"..."I use the same defense ammo as our local PD"

Anyone here shoot a KAHR?? I'm thinking of getting a K40 for carry.
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-15-2010, 11:06 AM Reply   
Since we're all speculating about how shooting someone may be perceived in a court room, it makes me wonder if shooting an attacker 4 times with a 9mm is risker from a legal perspective than shooting someone twice with a .45ACP or a 10mm? I can see an jury thinking that 3-4 shots was overkill even if it was from a 9mm.

If this is the case then it kind of negates the theory about a 9mm being a better home defense weapon since you can put more lead rapidly into a target with a 9mm than a .45 due to recoil. Just thinking outloud here...
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-15-2010, 11:12 AM Reply   
Chad,
That is an excellent point. The key is, however, not be charged with a crime by defending yourself with necessary force, nothing more. If you do that you should never end up being charged. Civil is probably going to happen no matter what.
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-15-2010, 11:45 AM Reply   
Barry, agreed. Of course, a dead man can't sue you so I guess the key is killing him without appearing that you used more than necessary force. That sounds like another vote for 1-2 shots with a high-powered, large caliber handgun versus a 9mm. I would be less worried about defending my choice of ammunition than how many times I shot him but who knows how a jury may think?

Not that this is a good home defense weapon for many reasons, but I don't know how a jury could criticize one shot .458 WinMag that I had in my closet.

(Message edited by dcwillette on January 15, 2010)

(Message edited by dcwillette on January 15, 2010)
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-15-2010, 1:15 PM Reply   
Chad, I don't think I'm understanding what you mean..If you have to defend yourself with a firearm and it's deemed a justifiable homicide, you will not be charged with a crime so you won't end up in front of a jury. There's nothing to defend if you're not charged.
What am I missing here?
Old    Chad (dcwillette)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-15-2010, 1:39 PM Reply   
I think we're saying about the same thing but I was imagining if you were charged for whatever reason and it did end up in front of a jury. I would think that it would be easier to defend a choice of caliber than the number of shots and it's easier to defend yourself in court when there's only one story to be told.

I would also not want it to go to the civil trial and have to defend myself in court against someone who attacked me or my family and I shot.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       01-15-2010, 2:03 PM Reply   
Okay.. I understand what you mean now. Good question!
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-15-2010, 3:07 PM Reply   
See the chaos and bandits in the streets of Haiti. The same thing happened in New Orleans.

This is my primary motivation for home protection fire power. Living in the Bay Area we could easily have an earthquake or terror attack that creates havoc in the streets for a week or two.
Old    JTW (sangerlover)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-15-2010, 3:21 PM Reply   
GD
I am here in the bay also and my biggest concern is a scenario where power is down for days or even weeks and well you can imagine the thugs that will be roaming the streets looking for the weak. I will be waiting for them at the door.
BTW, ammo is everywhere again. Cant believe the difference a couple of months makes. Big five has all calibers in stock.
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-15-2010, 3:45 PM Reply   
If we get hit by a big quake we will see chaos for a long time. And, the low life humans will become animals. No power. No gas at gas stations. No food in grocery stores. If you are prepared with water/food then you better have a lot of fire power too.
Old    AP (adam)      Join Date: Feb 2009       01-15-2010, 3:54 PM Reply   
I carry a Smith and Wesson Sigma 9mm... and a .38 special..

I really want a wilson combat .45
Old    kyle (hoppsxc140)      Join Date: Feb 2008       01-15-2010, 5:17 PM Reply   
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/guns-and-weapons/speer-gold-dot-hollow-points/

a test done with speer ammo, the 9mm expansion matched that of the .45, creating a wound channel that is same size, but averaged 2 inches deeper penetration, 15.1 for the 9mm vs 12.8 for the .45

i carry xd subcompact when im not wearing a coat, 13+1 with flush fitting mag and 16 in the backup mag with extension. in the colder months when im wearing more clothing i carry an FNH 5.7, 20+1 traveling at just under 2000 fps. bigger caliber isnt always better.


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Old    MikeS (mikes)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-15-2010, 7:19 PM Reply   
Since we're all speculating about how shooting someone may be perceived in a court room, it makes me wonder if shooting an attacker 4 times with a 9mm is risker from a legal perspective than shooting someone twice with a .45ACP or a 10mm? I can see an jury thinking that 3-4 shots was overkill even if it was from a 9mm.

Repeat after me:
I was in fear for my life
I defended myself until the threat ceased
I want to press charges against this person
I want to speak to my attorney

*Edit. If I was looking for a defense weapon for a major catastrophy scenario(ie katrina or Cali quake, it would be a rifle, not a handgun.

(Message edited by MikeS on January 15, 2010)
Old    Tailgate (tailgate)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-18-2010, 6:52 AM Reply   
I was told to show some "sympathy" on the 911 call as well, ie. I just shot an intruder... send the police and an ambulance, he's bleeding pretty bad...

a tip from my CHL class instructer...
Old    KP (kellen)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-18-2010, 8:24 PM Reply   
I love how everyone is a gun expert it's hella funny! I love my XD 40, I dislike the glock 22 (40 cal). I. just don't like how it feels in my hand. I also like the Sigg 40

Like a few people said go practice, it doesn't madder what gun ur shootn if you can't hit the target.

But over all a matched pair of 45LC in a rig is a badass.

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