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Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-08-2010, 2:41 PM Reply   
You can honestly say that posting a video like this is ok (role model wise) and the video without the vest is not?
http://vimeo.com/7606318

If kids went out and tried some of these gaps and hits, they could get SERIOUSLY injured and if they tried them without a helmet, they could get killed.

*edit* yes this was posted on wakeworld and no one did anything but praise it, Hypocrisy?

(Message edited by lfxstar on January 08, 2010)
Old    Peter Ward (petew)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-08-2010, 2:47 PM Reply   
Give it up kyle.
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-08-2010, 3:00 PM Reply   
Why don't you answer the question? I mean you are the one who started this whole thread bashing Dave and his decisions. I am just curious how you feel about Dave posting the Shredtown videos. It is just beating a dead horse at this point making any more posts about pros wearing vests and how it is "irresponsible of them". EVERYONE KNOWS YOU SHOULD WEAR A VEST from pro to first time rider. Not wearing one is a personal decision. This video was specifically made for an editing contest (which it won) and riding without the vest was most likely a decision on the director of the video. This was not a video of a compilation of these guys riding for fun. It was all shot with the intention of being in this video. Again if anything the most dangerous part of the video was hitting a 5 foot kicker to a 10+ foot step up rickety dock but it was a stunt that was setup for aesthetics and shock value and it worked.
Old    Scott T (thescott)      Join Date: Nov 2007       01-08-2010, 3:19 PM Reply   
Sick video!
Old    Peter Ward (petew)      Join Date: Dec 2008       01-08-2010, 3:20 PM Reply   
Kyle as stated before im REALLY not that bothered. I dont want to go on a crusade bashing everything posted here. i dont think i posted anything particulaly harsh or extreme. my main thing was the timing.

My main points were: the timing of the article was bad, wake world can make a diffrence and people will be influenced on some scale no matter what you say. I was also just answering what other people have said.

and for your information yes i think those guys are idiots and shouldnt winch with no life vest/helmet. if dave posted these videos straight after the chad article yes i would of given a simillar response.

Do i know people will ride with no safety? yes
do i think i can stop it all? no.

i was just pointing stuff out.
Old    TRDon (trdon)      Join Date: Sep 2007       01-08-2010, 3:52 PM Reply   
Realize one main difference in the videos pete. One video is a show of a pro's ability not related to anyone other than the professional riding in it. The safety video is an informational pertaining to anyone that watches it. One is directly realted to the watcher, one is for the watcher's ammusment.

Watching a pro ride without a vest does not tell me to ride without a vest. Smart people can distinguish between the two.
Old    David Williams (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       01-09-2010, 12:51 PM Reply   
In an effort to completely beat the crap out of a dead horse , here is a response I just wrote to an email I received about running a video of riders without vests. I just felt my message got a little scrambled in this thread, so this is a better picture of my take on this issue...

Thanks for your thoughts on the topic. We have considered a no vest, no video/photo policy in the past and have found that it conflicts with our primary goal of bringing our readers all the wake news thatís fit to print. Although weíll continue to encourage our readers to wear life vests through articles like the one Chad wrote, we will not turn a blind eye to any progression in wakeboarding thatís being accomplished by people that choose to go without vests, helmets, etc.

Even if we did decide that itís our responsibility to censor content that in our minds does not ďpromote safe wakeboarding,Ē itís never as simple as it sounds. Do we require people to wear vests if theyíre winching in a two-foot pool? What if theyíre winching in a pond? Do I have them send a piece of video proving that the depth of the water is shallow enough that itís ok to go without a vest? What about the type of vest? Should we allow videos of riders with non-CGA vests? What about riders out of the U.S. where there is no Coast Guard? What about places where there are no laws requiring vests? Should we ban people from sending in video of themselves doing something completely legal? What about wetsuit tops only? Fullsuits? Drysuits? What if they tell me the riders are wearing CGA vests, but they have jerseys or t-shirts on and I suspect they might be lying to me? Should I have them include an intro of the riders putting on their vests? What if they do so and then switch them out off-camera? What about pro riders without a vest and a chase boat and emergency team at the ready? One could argue that thatís a safer situation than one in which an amateur rider is wearing a vest and the crew in their boat is inexperienced and has no idea what to do if the rider gets hurt. Do I need to do something to ensure the crew is qualified to handle medical emergencies? Do I need them to send me video of the driver taking a breathalyzer to make sure heís ok to drive? What about the rest of their gear? Is that all in safe condition? Does the boat have a fire extinguisher and vests for all passengers on board? What about helmets? Should I have all submissions include proof that the body of water theyíre wakeboarding on is deep enough that there is no danger of hitting ones head when crashing? Most pros hit sliders without helmets unless they are in comps. Do we just remove that whole segment of wakeboarding from our site and pretend it isnít happening? Should we require a certain skill level before weíll feature them without a helmet? Should we require proof of the integrity of the slider?

As an example, one of the biggest things to hit wakeboarding and progress winching in 2009 was the Shred Town crew. They donít wear helmets or vests. Policies such as those youíre suggesting would completely remove them from the picture. Some may say thatís fine as long as it promotes safety. Others might say that if all wake publications had some kind of policy in place, the Shred Town crew would wear helmets and vests. Although I respect those opinions. I disagree with them.

Our job is to report on the sport of wakeboarding. Period. I wonít deny that as a part of the screening process done on our behalf to determine what is newsworthy and what is not, whether or not a situation appears to be grossly unsafe is certainly one of many factors that go into the selection of content we run on WakeWorld. However, it is not the only factor. While other wakeboarding publications have declared such a no vest/no pic policy in the past, we realized that such a policy was not only impossible to implement, but was incompatible with the goals of WakeWorld. Therefore, we never made such a declaration and the fact that the other wake publications have since abandoned it, drives home my point.

Again, thanks for your feedback!
Old    UncleJessie (unclejessie)      Join Date: Jan 2004       01-09-2010, 1:18 PM Reply   
David,

I think your letter explains your feelings on the topic very clearly, though IMO, paragraph 3, is a bit over dramatic. I still believe a simple policy could be implemented if you felt so inclined, but I see your points very clearly.

I think the reason the article raised so many comments was its timing... right on the heels of what happened with Chad and for me, what happened this fall with Evelyn.

I think for a large percentage of us WW's, this is a hot topic and since it is a discussion forum, we are free to post our opinions... as you are free to run your business.
Old    Sean Fleming (fleming)      Join Date: Aug 2008       01-09-2010, 2:38 PM Reply   
David, stay strong! The video is great, and the no vests discussion is BS. If you start banning riders without vests, then what's next, no rail shots? no wake jumps? Or another way to look at it would be, you only show shots of riders with vests, then only with helmets and vests, then helmets, vests, mouth guards, knee braces etc.

You have drawn a line and it's a fair one. Our sport is progressing, and it is dangerous. As participants we choose to accept those risks.
Old    Professor (brhanley)      Join Date: Jun 2001       01-09-2010, 3:14 PM Reply   
Ironically, pretty sure that Chad Sharpe's double b-roll was sans vest. Burn the footage!
Old    Dilly (dylan)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-10-2010, 8:50 AM Reply   
Everyone has there own way of doing things, we wear vests 95% of the time. If there was someone that wasn't comfortable with the situation they would have said so and we would have made it so everyone was cool. There are a lot of terrible things on the internet these days.... and I sure don't don't think this is all that bad, vests are important everyone knows that but we chose not to wear them to give the video a certain feel, little did we know it would cause an up roar of vest nazi's. Wakeboarding is dangerous so are a lot of things, but we still do them because we love them. But in the end thanks for checking out the video!!
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-10-2010, 9:16 AM Reply   
Thank you Dylan for coming on here and clarifying that. Your riding and the vid were awesome!! Keep up the good work
Old    Blabelmooch (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-10-2010, 11:15 AM Reply   
I feel bad for Dave that he had to waste his time with this.
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       01-10-2010, 11:59 AM Reply   
Me too Babel
Old    Jason (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       01-10-2010, 2:08 PM Reply   
Dylan, since you are on here can you clarify what trick you do at 3:11?
Old    Dilly (dylan)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-10-2010, 2:17 PM Reply   
It was actually anthony that did that trick... and it's a switch pete
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-10-2010, 11:43 PM Reply   
"vests are important everyone knows that but we chose not to wear them to give the video a certain feel"

I respect your opinion, I just don't understand it. Not wearing a vest gives the video a certain feel?

Do you think others should wear vests? Do you think your riding encourages others to ride without vests?
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-11-2010, 1:02 AM Reply   
oh, well since dylan clarified, it's ok.

super sick video, but lead by example.
Old    Craig Pajak (cpwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-12-2010, 7:01 AM Reply   
I couldn't have said it better myself Joe.

I've been holding off posting my own experience, because I think this horse has been beat plenty, but...

Back in '96 the crew I rode with watched the current videos constantly. We were all 18-20 years old, and wouldn't be caught dead with a vest on. Why should we, most of the pros weren't doing it. Vests were for skiing. Long story short, I end up breaking half my tooth off, opening up my knee, and getting knocked out for several seconds...all without a vest. I got lucky.

There is no controlled environment. This issue was obviously big enough that Wakeboarding Magazine wouldn't publish photos without a vest after Corey's death. For the time, that was a huge statement of responsibility. They realized that riders were impressionable.
Old    Gordie Taylor (wakeparent)      Join Date: Jan 2005       01-12-2010, 7:58 AM Reply   
WOW, If you want to wear vest wear it. I'm not going to run out and jump off a cliff because I saw someone do it on you tube. I think you can make your own choice if you want to wear a vest or not. Anyways nice video guys. Thanks for posting it. Upload In this photo No Helmet, That doesnt mean you have to ride without one...!
Old    Dilly (dylan)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-12-2010, 8:17 AM Reply   
Craig I really don't wanna open this can again but how would wearing a vest help you from breaking your tooth and opening up your knee? with all these dangers... maybe we should start wearing hockey equipment........
Old    Dilly (dylan)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-12-2010, 8:28 AM Reply   
P.S. the photo above is dope! Now picture that photo with a big PFD and a bright orange helmet... wouldn't quite look the same would it... I'm not promoting unsafe riding or riding without a vest. I'm promoting dope photos and video footage so other sports like skateboarding, snowboarding and surfing don't look at us like were rollerbladers... catch my drift.
Old    Jon (supersonicmi)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-12-2010, 8:34 AM Reply   
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and own choices, that's why we live in America, a country that's built on the principle of freedom.
Education is great but let people make thier own decisions on vests, helmets etc...
Keep bringing us videos of whatever is going on in wakeboarding David, that's what we are here for... and great video guys, stay strong!
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       01-12-2010, 8:39 AM Reply   
switch pete... from the horses mouth.... told you guys :P

Sick vid homie :-) just ignore the safety police
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-12-2010, 8:49 AM Reply   
What is with some missing the point or only reading select items? The point (to me) of the thread was the timing of the articles. Combine that with the fact this was not new "news", it was posted on this forum 7 months ago.

Pretty sure Craig's point was he got knocked out, and that he was mimicking the Pro's of that time. Amateur and younger riders will emulate what they see the top people doing, but no it is not a Pro's job to do any parenting, it is their responsibility though to set forth the best example possible.

I'm all for choice of wearing one or not and want the videos to continue, but the excuses, logic, and reasoning given for not wearing a vest are kind of ridiculous. Well for the most part, there is no legitimate reason why.
Old    Dilly (dylan)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-12-2010, 9:02 AM Reply   
In no way was I trying to take a hit on craig I understand influence... we all get influenced by someone or something. But this whole thread is turning into people telling stories that have nothing to do with wearing a vest, like the picture of the back country in the mountains... r u serious?
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-12-2010, 9:13 AM Reply   
Wakeworld is not alone.

Here's a cool video, and notice the similar comments below the video. http://www.alliancewake.com/wake/hanging-with-rusty/

It still seems to be the timing of the videos imo.

Maybe it's just Canadians? (joke)

Dylan, props to you for coming on here btw.
Old    Craig Pajak (cpwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-12-2010, 10:30 AM Reply   
A-dub nailed it on the head, on several points. The point with my story (which I think has EVERYTHING to do with wearing a vest) was I got knocked out, sans flotation. It's the example being set that I'm concerned about.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-12-2010, 1:07 PM Reply   
agreed the picture is dope, but noone says he has to wear a huge PFD and an orange helmet. Had he been wearing a black helmet I wouldn't have thought any different of the photo. He could also have worn a lightweight jacket and I wouldn't have thought anything different about the photo... but because the water is so shallow. I can respect that choice on the jacket. I'm not a blader and I don't see how anyone could compare us anyway.

You can't say you're not promoting unsafe riding or riding without a vest, when you make videos or are in videos of guys riding without a vest. Younger shredders that look up to you are going to find not wearing a vest more acceptable because of the fact that you think its alright for the reason alone of photo or video shoots. The riding in the video is just as dope with or without vests.

"You attract over and over who and what you are"
Old    Scott T (thescott)      Join Date: Nov 2007       01-12-2010, 1:27 PM Reply   
This thread is like a crappy reality TV show...you hate it...can't believe it's still running...but if you run across it while flippin through the channels, you can't stop watching.

Dylan and Anthony - SICK SICK SICK riding. Awesome video. Props.
Old    KG - WakeboardNJ.com (wakescene)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-13-2010, 11:40 AM Reply   
Instead of looking to WW to make the stand (it's not there job anyway) why not do something on your own.
Don't buy any videos or any equipment related to riders today that do not wear vests. Simple.

This allows you to stick to your guns on the issue and still make a stand against the behavior.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       01-13-2010, 12:30 PM Reply   
Because many times the riders that aren't wearing vests aren't advertising equipment. They are sometimes in videos and you wouldn't know it until after you buy it and see them in the video.

I think all of the major websites should make a stand. If the riders, that aren't wearing vests, couldn't get notticed (on a larger scale) for their abilities because of their action... then maybe some of them would reconsider. Or at least maybe it would be a little less acceptable by the general wake community. I'm not saying its going to stop every person from not wearing a vest ever again, but maybe it will save one person's life. Thats far more important to me than someone's selfish actions.

David has the right to run WW the way he wants just as much as the guys from Alliance and the Wake Place, etc.

But I have the right to disagree with the actions and hope that they will one day change.
Old    Scooter (czap)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-14-2010, 1:14 PM Reply   
Maybe we should start a new discussion forum called: I like to bitch about people riding without a life vest. So all the people that have somethin to say about a certain video or picture can start a thread in there and rant about it instead of filling up a post about WAKEBOARDING with their opinions that nobody cares about...
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-14-2010, 1:23 PM Reply   
if you don't care, don't read it. otherwise, opinions about WAKEBOARDING w/o a vest IS about WAKEBOARDING. 115 posts in this thread. obviously, people care. it's not all about you or what you want.

(Message edited by dakid on January 14, 2010)
Old    Is it summer yet? (trentj6930)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-14-2010, 1:26 PM Reply   
Dylan, just keep riding and having fun. I love to watch guys with skill make it look easy. You were very professional doing the demo days with us at Cow Lake with Mobius, and again very professional in how you conduct yourself on this board.

Good luck to you and Anthony in everything you do.

Trent
Old    Gordie Taylor (wakeparent)      Join Date: Jan 2005       01-14-2010, 4:15 PM Reply   
Come on Joe, It's all about me...haha How are you? Larry.
Here is another with out any safety gear.
Upload
Old    Anthony Hollick (hollick)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-15-2010, 12:55 AM Reply   
Hey guys it's Anthony, the other rider in the video. There's a few things I'd like to get off my chest (pun intended). First off, I think that Dylan and Myself often forget how much responsibility we can carry or how much of an influence we can be to other riders. Sorry if we offended anybody by not wearing a vest. It's unsafe and you should always wear a vest.
secondly, this video was intended to be more of a pilot. We made this video for a contest in texas (and it won).

I'm kind of rattled about the amount of energy that was wasted complaining about two idiots wakeboarding without a vest INSTEAD OF how well the video was produced. The production, the different types of filming techniques, the editing or how about the fact that this video has music rights - not to mention it was filmed in two weeks. Imagine what Adam could do with some financial assistance, more time and some better riders!! That's what "wows" me.

Lastly I'll add; Dylan and myself practice our contest passes vigorously, to the point where we land most of our contest tricks 8-9 times out of 10. On the chance we do fall, it isn't to often that we fall bad at all (usually we just pop the handle). I realize that this isn't a contest type of video, but you catch my drift. Chad's article/testimony is the exception; no matter how good you are, things can always go wrong. However if you look at the video, anytime Dylan or I were out of our comfort zone we were wearing a vest.
After seeing how heated people got about this video getting published, it seems very unlikely your going to get any love without wearing a vest. So buckle up cowboy.
Side Note: Dylan's Pecs float.. so.
Also thanks for the people who actually commented on the video itself, it's appreciated.
Old    scott clark (snwmot)      Join Date: Sep 2006       01-15-2010, 1:13 AM Reply   
i thought the video was sick i was truely inspired by it and the way it was filmed and put together regardless of if the riders were wearing vest or not seriously guys get over it!
Old    Brian Deegan (irishrider92)      Join Date: Jun 2009       01-15-2010, 5:21 PM Reply   
I LIKE TURTLES!!Upload
Old    Dilly (dylan)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-17-2010, 4:18 PM Reply   
Well put anthony... and Thanks Trent!
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-17-2010, 4:56 PM Reply   
Thanks for coming on here Anthony and clarifying everything. I remember when the video first came out and how the guy was saying it was specifically for a contest and that was why you guys weren't wearing vests. I wish he would come out with a full length feature film because it would be unreal.

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