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Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-15-2009, 12:56 PM Reply   
Is it going ahead this year? I heard a whisper no?
Old    wave bird (wavebird10)      Join Date: Dec 2009       12-16-2009, 10:52 AM Reply   
Yeah! we would like to know more about this! Riders need to know whats happenning with this so they can plan their upcoming season
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-16-2009, 11:39 AM Reply   
whisper: likely yes
Old    Todd (ifinallygota21v)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-16-2009, 1:22 PM Reply   
karl- does that mean placid waters is hosting a tour stop?
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-16-2009, 2:49 PM Reply   
I am trying....
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-16-2009, 5:24 PM Reply   
The Wake Games and Nationals have been announced. Nationals are in Reno and Wake Games at O'dub. Again.As far as I know there is a tour as well. For the men anyway.
Old    Darren Yearsley (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-16-2009, 10:11 PM Reply   
Good stuff, would be a complete bummer if it didn't happen.
Old    Greg Smith (greg_smith)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-21-2009, 4:57 AM Reply   
Yea it would suck if there was no tour. On the other hand, I'm guessing you would see a lot more new tricks being landed. The pros would have a lot more time on their hands to just free ride (I would imagine).
Old    Neil (cwbrdr)      Join Date: Jun 2008       12-22-2009, 5:24 AM Reply   
Ok I will break the ice. This post will most likely be removed but here I go. The people who run the Pro Tour are idiots. Not to respond to this post tells me that. They are one of the reasons that the sport is falling apart. They fail to put out information so that riders can plan. They don't release the tour stops until the last minute. They don't try to stop rumors. They are too lazy to change tour stops to increase attendance and exposure to the sport. Just my opinion.
Old    j hill (jhilltn)      Join Date: Jul 2004       12-22-2009, 8:52 AM Reply   
you just cracked the ice a little bit. i wouldn't call that breaking it.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-22-2009, 9:15 AM Reply   
1) Expecting any reply here will result in a long wait for a lot of things and differing topics
2) Planning and executing the tour can't be an easy task
3) Dates, locations, etc. are probably released once they are finalized, and sponsors probably like to be the first to know. Keep in mind all the different competitions have to communicate and try to schedule around each other. That is helping the sport and giving the riders the most opportunities for exposure, sponsors, and winnings.
4) Pretty sure new locations and sites are tried every year, with an emphasis on increasing exposure
5) Money isn't being thrown around like it was a few years ago, it can't be easy to attract new/keep sponsors all the time
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-22-2009, 10:26 AM Reply   

The people running the Pro Tour are a dedicated group of individuals trying to keep professional wakeboarding alive. Getting sponsors to commit funds in this economy can't be easy. In the past Mastercraft requested a change in venues every three years. The Pro Tour is a mobile road show traveling across country coast to coast, twice a year. If you are an avid wakeboarder and follower of the Pro Tour, you should already know that they have changed venues a number of times in the last few years. I think it's an insult to call people idiots that do nothing but keep our sport alive. Everyone has an opinion, mine is that you're an idiot.
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-22-2009, 11:13 AM Reply   
^^^Well put Haun. Neil, have you been to very many Tour stops? Forget for a minute the months of planning that goes into organizing a tour, plus Nationals, Worlds & Wake Games so the riders have a venue to showcase their talents for the thousands of people that otherwise would not have the opportunity to watch & meet the Pro riders up close. You have no clue how hard these folks work to bring us these events. Their day starts at 6:00 in the morning and finishes up after 10:00 at night during a stop week. These people are as dedicated and hard working as they come.

And that Neil, is my opinion.

World Sports, thanks for all you do.
Old    travis moye (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       12-22-2009, 12:46 PM Reply   
Considering the first tour stop is usually the end of May, I don't think that things are exactly last minute at this point. The schedule doesn't get released until things are finalized. Would you rather get info and something fall through so that you can eat a plane ticket? I'm sure it will be released soon. And, if you have better ideas...produce them, don't just bash. That's about all this board has become. It's irritating. I have all but quit looking on here because of it, I just happen to have some spare time today and thought I would check it out. Just got reminded why I don't.
Old    corey king (snowboardcorey)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-22-2009, 1:17 PM Reply   
Unless you've ever planned and pulled off an event of this size its pretty hard to pass judgment on those that do. Its an INSANE amount of work, esspecial when start moving the site to new venues. Combine that with a limited budget for payroll, insurance, travel and marketing and you've got a huge logistical nightmare.

The tour was here in MN for 3 years and every year they killed it! My hats off to Bischoff and the tour crew.
Old    Ben C (dadthedriver)      Join Date: Jul 2004       12-22-2009, 2:15 PM Reply   
I agree with Hahn and Randy. The fact that you have several trucks pulling jet skis, boat, sliders and all the other gear all over the country cant be an easy thing to pull off. Now add the people the riders and oh yea have a comp run as smooth as they do it. I would like to see some of you asking and bashing to do a better job.

(Message edited by dadthedriver on December 22, 2009)
Old    Tiger Woods (tigerjustdoitwoods)      Join Date: Dec 2009       12-22-2009, 2:32 PM Reply   
There is much room for improvement on this tour. Sites have been ok, not good but, ok, for the past few years. The fun box thing is probably the worst designed rail ever built for wakeboarding. Mastercraft is running out of money because they have sooo many boats that they have built for the past few years and now nobody wants to buy a boat for 80,000$+ that really isnt much different than any other wakeboats these days. They are hurting the worst financially in the industry and they are sponsering the tour? Contest riding made wakeboarders look dumb until recently when the new format came upon the riders, which was a great step in wakeboard contest riding.. All in all the tour could be run way better for sure, no argument about it. Think about it, there are not many, if any, people putting this tour together that have any clue about what the sport really is (except bischoff and perry and a few others),its business men and women trying to make money and not understanding what is going on. But the tour does get attention and bring the public, which is good for the sport. In comparison to other tours that other board sports host, the mastercraft pro tour is very unlegit and needs heeps of improvements.
Old    Alex Yermolenko (alexair)      Join Date: Oct 2008       12-22-2009, 2:36 PM Reply   
Maybe Neil was rude but... can anybody from these respect men put ANY reply for this post during a week or are they really so busy or is this discussion is total zero for them?
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-22-2009, 2:50 PM Reply   

Nothing is impossible to those who do not have to pay for it or perform it.

Everyone else has extra money that I can spend better than they can.

Everybody will volunteer anything other than time, money, or sweat.
Old     (bill_c)      Join Date: Apr 2009       12-22-2009, 6:45 PM Reply   
hey tiger, what a stupid coment.
Mastercraft are financially viable in these tough economic times. I believe they are the only boat company out there that put their hand up to sponsor the tour again, so that speaks for its self. Yes the tour is limited by budget, there is only so much money to go around.
Yes without the business men and women who need to make money then you just might not have a tour. Like any business its all about making money to help build and grow the business.
I dont believe contest riding made wakeboarders look bad, just your perception of what contests should be are different to the people that have been running the tour.
Look at snowboarding every board rider does the same trick over the same jump, freestyle motox is the same, back flip after back flip. You can make any sport look bad and repetitive if you want to.
These guys that run the tour do an exceptional job with little or no thanks at all. Lets see tiger get up and do it better.
Old    Kevin Zoodsma (zoodsmak)      Join Date: Feb 2009       12-22-2009, 7:21 PM Reply   
Lets stop ripping on the PWT or ripping on the guy that ripped on the PWT. There is always a better way to do it right? What are your suggestions for improving the tour?

I'll go first, I always thought having 1 stop that focused a little more on rails would be cool and another where it was mostly boat. Maybe something at another stop that plays towards the riding of Lyman or Vandall. Each stop would get interesting with different guys styles playing to their advantage along the way. Of course this gets a lot harder to pull off. I just thought it'd be cool. Add a cable stop maybe?
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       12-22-2009, 7:30 PM Reply   
Why don't we all just be happy that we have a pro tour and great riders to follow.....period, no matter what shape that pro tour may come in. In this day and age of sponsors cutting back I think we all need to say thanks to MC for not just pulling out and using the economy as an excuse to do so.

Merry Christmas!!
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       12-23-2009, 9:03 AM Reply   
I am happy that we will have a Pro Tour this year.

Thanks to all that are working so hard to get this accomplished, it has to be really tough in this economy to pull this off.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       12-23-2009, 10:09 AM Reply   
Well said Jeff. looking forward to another year of PWT.
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-23-2009, 8:22 PM Reply   
By AMO (amo) on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 6:30 pm:
Why don't we all just be happy that we have a pro tour-

Because of this attitude is why the tour is the way it is. Yes they are great guys but really how well is the tour marketed? Tiger Woods and Neil just spoke what 90% of you on here feel but are just scared to say without hiding behind an alias!
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-23-2009, 9:11 PM Reply   
I think the pro tour stops are very well done and run smoothly, but I agree, the marketing could be better. The one stop I went to in Acworth ran smooth as silk with great sponsor booths, great venue, lots of fun. It was really one of the best weekends of my life. However, I would have never known there was a pro event going on if I was just visiting Acworth. There were just a handful of signs (no more/bigger than for a grassroots event, I think they just said wakeboard event this way or something. No PWT, could be wrong) and I dont remember seeing advertising anywhere in the city, maybe I missed it. But I feel like there should be some huge signs, fliers around the city saying (PWT THIS WEEKEND May __ through __) a newspaper/magazine preview, a billboard perhaps, or optimally a TV commercial for the ATL area. I know that last one is super expensive and is completely understandable why its not done, but you catch my drift. I feel like a ton of people would come to these events if they knew they were happening. 10 dollars to get in? Thats a steal. I was prepared to pay like 40. Wakeboarding looks cool to the average person, I think they would be more than willing to check it out if it was in their town and cost a mere 10 dollars.
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-24-2009, 12:38 AM Reply   
I think the guys that do PWT do an awesome job and should be given props for all the hard work they do for the sport.

Could more be done? Maybe, but they would need more people helping for more to be done. So do work and help or appreciate what they give.
Old    Peter Ward (petew)      Join Date: Dec 2008       12-24-2009, 5:06 AM Reply   
i reackon some pretty good ideas have been tossed about here. especially the one kevin z said about making each stop slightly diffrent ie rail heavy stop, wake heavy stop, throw in some double ups and maybe a cable stop etc. it would be really good and could bring out some fierce competition. I know i would prefer to watch somthing like that were the last stop tried to bring it all together with a mega showdown. also could make a true king of the wakeboard champion.

ideas costs nothing and this could be a perfect arena (so long as it doesnt turn into a flaming thread) to throw a few of those ideas back and forth to find out what the FANS really want.

whats the point in mastercraft spending there hard earned cash on somthing we or anyone else doesnt reall want to see?

sure every one's opinions differ but i still like to hear them all.
Old    Neil (cwbrdr)      Join Date: Jun 2008       12-24-2009, 6:09 AM Reply   
Ok, I may have been too harsh by saying that they are idiots, but to say they do a great job is a farce. I never said they are not hard workers nor did I say it was easy to put on an event. What I am trying to say is that the company that runs the Pro tour is call World Sports and Marketing. Where is the marketing? If you do a Google search for Mastercraft Pro Tour today, all you get is old news about last years tour. You can not get any news about this years tour. I am not saying that they should have all the sites firmed up at this time, but they should have the first site finalized. They should also know if there is going to be a tour and share that with the public, that is the definition of marketing. If no one knows about a product then no ones buys. I also understand budgets. It would not be very expensive to get press releases out to the major websites and wakeboarding magazines. As far as sites, has there ever been a tour in New York? Boston? Phily? The east coast has the highest population density in the US. No they would rather have it in Pleasant Prarie, 45 min from any major city, where you expect sheep and cows to come see the tour, where they have had weather delays on more than 1 occasion. Phoenix, where you stand on 130 degree pavement and die. Texas where you stand in mud up to your knees. And again the marketing, by the way thanks Jim T., when you are at an event are you aware that a Pro event is happening? The signs are so small and so few, unless you are there for the event you would never know it was happening. The press release in the local papers comes out on the Friday before the event, after people have already planned their weekend. I see very little coordination with the civic groups in the area like Rotary and chamber of commerce. These groups are always looking for events they can piggy back on. If you involve these groups they will help you get the word out. These are just a few of my ideas that might make the tour better but from what I see the only change that we will see is that it will cease to exist. Just my opinion.
Old    Neil (cwbrdr)      Join Date: Jun 2008       12-24-2009, 6:17 AM Reply   
By the way I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. If everyone shares their ideas maybe things will change for the better.
Old    Becky Carter (beckycarter)      Join Date: Oct 2008       12-24-2009, 10:10 AM Reply   
Neil- you just need to quit. It's more than obvious that you have no idea what it takes to run a pro wakeboard tour stop. If you think you do know, then why don't you try?? Maybe you'll learn how to respect other people's hard work a bit more. I'm personal friends with a couple of people who work at the tours either judging, driving, dock help, and managing... they are all the reasons why the tour is still afloat. It really ticks me off to hear people like you totally disrespect them. Also- for your information.. the tour dates are released well in advance so that riders have the time to book their flights and hotels, so I don't know where you get off saying that they release the dates last minute. An email is sent out to all of the riders on the tour, even riders who had previously rode in the tour but are not quite as involved as others. You can also find the dates for the tour in wakeboarding magazine and also alliance mag too... Also, the stops ARE marketed to the local cities of which they are held (or the large cities near where it is held... the sheep and cows aren't the only ones who get to enjoy it). Example: this year in Reno there were banners, signs, and ads in gas stations, street lamps, and it was advertized on the radio... hmmmm sounds like some good marketing to me, am I wrong? Do they need mascots jumping up and down the streets of downtown Reno next time??

So Neil, with that being said.. I'll leave you with this: think before you speak. Seriously.
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       12-24-2009, 10:49 AM Reply   
Jim scared, please scared of what, I could care less what anyone thinks of my opinion.

What I said in my post, is what I believe.

Merry Christmas and happy new year to all.
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-24-2009, 10:50 AM Reply   
Even if Neil is off with a couple of his statements, some points are legitimate constructive criticism. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, including him. If you dont like it, thats fine, but it would be more helpful and contribute in a more positive manner to the site if you corrected his incorrect statements in a respectable way and put in your own two cents without personal attacks. I dont think he ever said he wanted to put on a pro tour event, so statements like "if you think you do know, then why don't you try??" are really just adding negativity for no reason.
Old    Neil (cwbrdr)      Join Date: Jun 2008       12-24-2009, 10:59 AM Reply   
Becky with all due respect, I never said these people do not work hard. I also never said that the tour stops don't run smooth. Because they do. There is a difference between working hard and working smart. It is the marketing of the tour and choice of stops that is terrible. I agree with you that the tour would not be afloat with out them but I feel that it would not just be afloat but cruising along with much better marketing. Every year there is a post asking when the tour info is coming out. The first stop is in 5 months and where is it being held? That alone tells me the information is not being done in a timely manner. As far as tour stops, you pick the one tour stop that has the feel and excitement that they should all have. Reno is the only stop that is done up right. Feel free to get pissed at me and hate me but I think I am saying what a lot of people are thinking but afraid to say.
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-24-2009, 1:04 PM Reply   
"As far as tour stops, you pick the one tour stop that has the feel and excitement that they should all have"

Ok, Dallas/Fort Worth
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-24-2009, 1:47 PM Reply   
The pro tour has improved eons from what it used to be. It used to just be the "spin until you vomit" show which has now turned into more of a style contest. I do agree that the fun box time has passed but the reason it is still there is because all of those sliders are very expensive to build and move around to country. For transportable sliders it serves it's purpose well as it can be hit in both directions and is easily moved around on the water. It does get annoying seeing everyone do the exact same trick on it but that is because it is in competition. It isn't worth it to try and toe back 3 gap it and fall and come in last in slider points. I don't know if you have seen it in person either but that thing is BIG and would definitely have me nervous charging it.
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-24-2009, 5:19 PM Reply   
So Becky if the tour is marketed so well as you say then why in orlando Are they passing out free tickets at every boat ramp? I'm sorry Becky but the tour is not anywhere close to being marketed as you claim.

(Message edited by Wkbrd on December 24, 2009)
Old    Manda (manda)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-27-2009, 4:31 PM Reply   
stop whinging.... At least you guys have a pro tour for 2010. Australias PTW will not be going ahead for 2010 for reason that im not 100% sure of.
Most business's could be marketed better, and im sure the PTW is no different but as stated before it comes down to budget. Would you still go to a stop if say the top 10 to 20 riders werent there because they used their budget on fantastic marketing and not on the things that get the riders in the first place. honestly i have no idea what or how the PTW uses their budget. im sure it would be the best way they can.

just my 2c worth!
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-27-2009, 4:46 PM Reply   
By Manda (manda) on Sunday, December 27, 2009 - 3:31 pm:
honestly i have no idea what or how the PTW uses their budget. im sure it would be the best way they can.

Manda- If you have no idea then how can you be sure it would be the best way they can? There are better ways to market the tour. The first would be outside sponsors. Do you know a gentleman put up his own money to sponsor the tour for the women 2 years ago and the tour COULD/DID NOT secure even one new sponsor for the women!!! These women are VERY marketable and to not even try and secure a single new sponsor to help out that is just unacceptable!!!
Old    Andrew Moreton (andrew_moreton)      Join Date: Feb 2003       12-27-2009, 5:50 PM Reply   
You don't think it makes sense to have the Pro Tour in Dallas/Ft. Worth? It's only the #1 inboard market in the country. And in the DFW Metroplex, the Mastercraft dealership TXMC (remember that MC is sponsoring the entire tour) has it's own private lake just for wakeboarding. What about that lake doesn't make sense? Sometimes it is unfortunate that the weekend you pick in the fall ends up being rainy the following summer, but this isn't surfing with a 2 week holding period--the heats have to run when scheduled.

The guys running the tour do a great job and there is a lot of work that goes into all of it. Thanks to Bisch and crew for organizing and running the tour, Travis for driving week in and week out, and Grubb and all the other judges that fly in just to sit in a hot chair all weekend.
Old    Neil (cwbrdr)      Join Date: Jun 2008       12-28-2009, 3:49 AM Reply   
Mandy, How are they using their budget to get the riders there when last year they did away with the payouts for podium. Most riders go because they love to ride and compete and some because their sponsors require them to.
Old    Becky Carter (beckycarter)      Join Date: Oct 2008       12-28-2009, 10:44 AM Reply   
I'm sorry but... I stand by what I said before. It's really easy to talk, but not so easy to do... I have planned a wakeboarding event and it is not easy! It's a LOT of hard work. Maybe I just have a little bit more respect for the people who are behind it than others. I do agree that it is a good thing to voice your opinions and give out your friendly suggestions, but some people take a little too far and say things before they really stop to think about them. Have you read Travis Moye's post on here? I don't think he appreciated what was said very much and I don't blame him.
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-28-2009, 12:01 PM Reply   
Jim T and Neil you guys have a right to your opinions and this board is open for you guys to offer them. So do you guys have a dog in this fight, a friend or family member that rides on the tour? Just wondering what is prompting all the negativity directed to World Sports and the people who run the tour? What is your interest in this anyway? I am just curious.
Old    Steven Spotts (sp0tts)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-28-2009, 1:07 PM Reply   
I can't argue or even contribute to a lot of this because there because there hasn't been a pro tour event within a 9 hour drive of me since 2002, and that was the X-games in Philly. Odd also that I live within a 5 hour drive of almost 25% of the population of this country.

Not saying this city or that city shouldn't have a stop, but the Northeast should have one. DC in front of the Washington Monument would be great (I've ridden there and could put someone in contact with people to make that happen), Baltimore Harbor, I can think of several others. I'm sure all the people that put these events together work plenty hard, but seriously, I'd like to know why almost 25% of the nations population has been left out for 8 years????
Old     (bill_c)      Join Date: Apr 2009       12-28-2009, 1:28 PM Reply   
hey spotts, maybe it is just logistics getting there, but good point. Im sure the guys that run the tour have a good reason for not going there, I would assume that when taking a tour stop to a city they would be trying to get some funding from that city to hold the event there. that could be one reason why it isnt near you. just a thought
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       12-28-2009, 6:09 PM Reply   
Becky- First off we are not talking about a back yard grass roots event. We are talking about the PRO TOUR! How long would it go if the Dew Tour for skateboard was marketed the same way? I am NOT bashing Bish, Priscilla, Travis, or any of the others. I am simply stating that if you want to grow the sport you HAVE to market it way better or differently. I understand that the above mentioned people work their a$$es off but it goes way above the hard work on site or the week before.

Randy- I do not have a dog in this fight other than my job pertains to wakeboarding and I have been around for many years in this industry. Randy please go back and reread my post! I NEVER said anything about the people that run the tour other than it has been marketed very poorly. Which I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to come to that conclusion on your own. I did not say anything on this board that I would not say in person to those people. For your ease I have reposted below my posts. If I am wrong about anything I said please point it out.

By Jim T (wkbrd) on Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 7:22 pm:
By AMO (amo) on Tuesday, December 22, 2009 - 6:30 pm:
Why don't we all just be happy that we have a pro tour-

Because of this attitude is why the tour is the way it is. Yes they are great guys but really how well is the tour marketed? Tiger Woods and Neil just spoke what 90% of you on here feel but are just scared to say without hiding behind an alias!

By Jim T (wkbrd) on Thursday, December 24, 2009 - 4:19 pm:
So Becky if the tour is marketed so well as you say then why in orlando Are they passing out free tickets at every boat ramp? I'm sorry Becky but the tour is not anywhere close to being marketed as you claim.

(Message edited by Wkbrd on December 24, 2009)

By Jim T (wkbrd) on Sunday, December 27, 2009 - 3:46 pm:
By Manda (manda) on Sunday, December 27, 2009 - 3:31 pm:
honestly i have no idea what or how the PTW uses their budget. im sure it would be the best way they can.

Manda- If you have no idea then how can you be sure it would be the best way they can? There are better ways to market the tour. The first would be outside sponsors. Do you know a gentleman put up his own money to sponsor the tour for the women 2 years ago and the tour COULD/DID NOT secure even one new sponsor for the women!!! These women are VERY marketable and to not even try and secure a single new sponsor to help out that is just unacceptable!!!
Old     (bill_c)      Join Date: Apr 2009       12-28-2009, 9:40 PM Reply   
I know I am going to get flammed here, interesting point does the dew tour have any women riding bikes or skateboards at their events.
does anyone know
Old    kyle (lfxstar)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-28-2009, 9:56 PM Reply   
Bill, there are professional girls skateboarders and bikers???
Old    Dillon Gross (lfrider139)      Join Date: May 2007       12-28-2009, 10:23 PM Reply   
the snowboard dew tour has women riders
Old     (bill_c)      Join Date: Apr 2009       12-29-2009, 10:14 AM Reply   
hey thanks I didnt know if there was a girls tour or not, I have never seen them on fuel tv.
Old    Jason G (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       12-29-2009, 12:29 PM Reply   
The tour is a great concept and great for the sport. Lets not forget that the wakeboarding community is still a very small part of the population. You cant take the opinions of the core group (this site) and extrapolate it to the entire population.

The tour has this going for it:

access to the pros- not a better group of athletes to expose your kids to. Great guys/gals.

great organization- backend guys really know their stuff and work hard.

Good attitude towards format- you got to admit the format has improved drastically from the old days.

The tour has these hurdles:

Not a spectator sport- cannot see an entire run, nor can the novice understand what he sees.

Format- promotes conservative riding

Funding- economy is rough

I think some "outside the box" thinking is required to figure out how to make the sport more of an attraction. When I think of sports that werent that spectator friendly that hit once it was ironed out, I think of autoracing and NASCAR. Went from obscure southern niche to #1 attended sporting event.

As far as format, while Im intrigued by the chess-game, the actual riding is conservative and boring. There needs to be something in the format that encourages pushing the limits.

Maybe wakeboarding in its present form has reached its zenith, much like skating did in the 80's. It went underground for a decade or so, then came back bigger than ever. Needed some time to get realligned with its followers. Tony Hawk went from skatings top dog, to skating exhibitions here in Dallas at Six Flags for $100/day, and back to king of skating and marketing powerhouse. For the longest time skating comp = vert. I cant remember the last time I saw a vert comp outside of XGames.
Old    Laura (lmcnary1)      Join Date: Aug 2009       12-29-2009, 6:01 PM Reply   
To help save money, they should use boats from local dealers instead of carting them all over the country.
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       12-30-2009, 9:02 AM Reply   
Here is my list for a potential tour stop at my place:

You can ride. We will have boats and boards available.

Announcing of the tricks, background on the riders, and where the rider is in the placement.

Other entertainment - bands, BMX, skateboard, food, vendors.

Other watersports demos during downtime - jumping, foil, show, etc.

Spectating - the venue allows for the entire run to be seen from one point.

As for format and rules - that is up to the organizer. I just provide the site.
Old    Randy Scagliotti (wakedad33)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-30-2009, 9:57 AM Reply   
Karl, Sounds like a good plan, where is this site? My only other comment is the announcing part, I think Nick & Dano do an outstanding job and are also entertaining as well, I wouldn't change that chemistry. Hope you get a tour stop.
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       12-31-2009, 9:41 PM Reply   
The reason you may not have seen it on fuel is because its on nbc here in the states doesn't get any better than that.

Look at sponsors for snowboarding. I mean paul mitchel is a major sponsor. That's someone who thought out of the box.
I have been to several stops. In reno their are a lot of locals that have never even seen wakeboarding but they go. They sit and enjoy it until some jackass from mastercraft comes up and puts a 20 ft flag up so no one can see the run in front of them let alone down the course. Or in 08 they put the video tower blocking the whole cousre for many fans.
Its a joke. You can always do better, sometimes its a luxury in this case they need to. There's no reason they can't find more sponsors for the women let alone the men.
Old    Chim Richolds (maliburider07)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-01-2010, 9:01 PM Reply   
Obviously there's a lot of people outside the industry spectating on here about what could be and what should be. There's a few key elements of economics that should probably be covered.

1. Wake is much smaller than that of other alternative sports; snow, skate, moto and surf enjoy the luxury of sponsors "outside the box" like Paul Mitchell because they have a higher amount of mass market appeal. I'm not saying that wakeboarding won't get there, but big name sponsors like Hiawaiian Tropic aren't going to sponsor an event that not many people know about.

2. Marketing is subjective. I travel to several of the events each year and almost all events have banners, get time on the local radio, promote at grassroot events, and also have coverage on Fuel TV. Could it be better? That's like asking if the 2009 economy could have been better. Of course... but you have to realize that we're dealing with a sport that doesn't have the luxury of being on the X Games or the Dew Tour... marketing dollars are tight and you have to maximize what you can do with a small amount of money.

3. World Sports and Marketing posts the schedule as soon as they finalize all the sites. It isn't just an issue of finding a lake. You also have to find parking for hundreds/potentially thousands of cars, easy access to setup sponsor tents, good visibility for all from the shoreline, waterway has to be big, yet close to a major city where there are lots of people. We all know that Orlando is the wake capital of the world, not NY or Philly or DC. You have to go where the market is. The NE has a big population, but the most popular states for boat and wakeboard sales are Florida, California, Texas, Washington, Oregon, Tennessee, Georgia, etc. If that's the case, then the Pro Tour sites have also been chosen for those reasons. I would like nothing more than to see a wake contest in Central Park NY, but the amount of money needed for something like that is out of the question. Realize that we're working with a scale of economy. I've also never heard of a pro rider booking a plane ticket for a pro tour stop 5 months in advance...let alone anyone for that matter.

I personally think that the World Sports and Marketing people are some of the hardest workers I've ever met. Up a dawn weeks before the event trying their best to MARKET and create an event that not everyone outside of Wakeworld knows about.
Old    Sloppy (winchinretention)      Join Date: Oct 2009       01-02-2010, 12:03 AM Reply

This is a spectator sport ( and its wakeboarding) however I have found on other forums that the old timers have a hard time accepting it for whatever reason. Seems they still want the cypress gardens 2 pass style forever.
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       01-02-2010, 8:34 AM Reply   
By Chim Richolds (maliburider07) on Friday, January 01, 2010 - 8:01 pm:
I personally think that the World Sports and Marketing people are some of the hardest workers I've ever met. Up a dawn weeks before the event trying their best to MARKET and create an event that not everyone outside of Wakeworld knows about.

AGAIN nobody said they were NOT hard workers. Those people knew the type of work they are doing and ARE PAID for it. They are not vols like USA Wakeboard. They are expected to do their job and their job consists of hours sometimes PERIOD!!! This is about marketing. Also in your same remark you said "create an event that not everyone outside of Wakeworld knows about." Why shouldn't they know about it? You just unknowlingly proved my point. Besides do you not think Paul Mitchell could get behind the womens tour? Does anyone know how much money it would take to actually sponsor or give the tour money? If Paul Mitchell came or I should say if the TOUR went to PM and presented the womens photos and ask for several grand what are the chances they would say yes? Do we have to have 100k from just one sponsor? NO Why not take 2 or 3 k from many smaller sponsors? Then when bigger names see how many companies you have on board then maybe they will see a value. Does anyone know Sam's and Target does stuff like this gives a few thousand locally? Please come on people YOU have to sell YOURSELF!!! These people will not come asking if they can spend their money with you. Also Chim do you know a few years ago USA Wakeboard received a check for $30,000 to hold the USA Wakeboard Nationals in Syracuse? Only problem is it was going to be at the most polluted lake at one time in the US. So yes there is advertising dollars out there it just needs to be approached better.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       01-02-2010, 8:46 AM Reply   
Thank you Mastercraft for the the Tour. WOOOOO HOOOO see you in Reno!
Old    Chris Butler (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-02-2010, 6:48 PM Reply   
Jim, I think the men and the Junior men obviously are the priorities.And their tour does not seem to a problem.
If not for Monavie there would not have been be a womans tour the past 2 years and nobody knows if there is one in 2010.Hard to believe that even a couple of K couldn't be raised elsewhere?
Unless you have kids or family in the womans divisions you are not really going to care anyway.
Was their a significant drop in attendance when there were no woman at the stops? I might be wrong,but probably not.
I don't think the mens tour is in any danger. Not immediately anyway.
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-02-2010, 11:53 PM Reply   
Jim T,

You seem to have a very definitive opinion that money would change the Tour. So rather than just complain about it why not find some corporate sponsorship. I'm sure Dishman and Bisch would love to add more sponsors to the roster. Marketing does cost money but I think your post insinuates that the people at World Publications aren't actively seeking additional funding for the tour. In my experience this has never been the case. So while it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and complain how bad things are, what are YOU doing to make it better? Personally my participation in the industry is not for financial gain. Only to promote a sport I love and to visually bring readers my perspective both on and off the water.

Like Travis said above, this is the main reason sponsors and athletes do not participate actively on Wakeworld. Too many complaints and opinions with little to no action.
Old    Gordie Taylor (wakeparent)      Join Date: Jan 2005       01-03-2010, 11:36 AM Reply   
Randy. Karl has a sick private lake in Grand Rapids area. Karl is a great person to promote wakeboarding!
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       01-03-2010, 6:50 PM Reply   
Hahn- FYI "I" have brought a few sponsors to the tour so sorry to rain on your parade or bashing parade
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-03-2010, 7:41 PM Reply   
I'm not bashing. You came to a public forum and complained about the Tour. I simply asked you a question. If you have truly brought sponsors to the tour then thank you for your support. My comment simply pointed out that there's a lot of complaining and not enough action done on these threads. Based on your comments, you were no exception.
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       01-03-2010, 9:26 PM Reply   
Hahn- Do you honestly feel the PWT is promoted/marketed the best it could be? Again I don't think I was complaining or bashing but I do feel the tour needs some major improvement in this area.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-04-2010, 11:09 AM Reply   
I would just love for them to come back to the Northwest where the roots of this sport are. Also bring the ladies with them. It's a great contest stop here when the men and ladies participate. We miss you in Portland OR, please come back!!!!
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-04-2010, 3:17 PM Reply   
I'm going to tell you here in Orlando there is almost NO advertising. I have to subscribe to wakeworlds "Event" posting to learn about stuff going on or hear it from a friend.... How do you plan to get John public out to anything without advertising?????
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-04-2010, 3:43 PM Reply   
Do you WANT John Public? I would think marketing to Wally Johns and I/O Janes would have a much better success rate to cost comparison. I mean really, WHO do you want to try and attract to come and sit through multiple days worth of seeing the "same" thing done behind a boat that drives by? That's not the best avenue to attract new-comers to the "sport". In Orlando I would think anyone active in the "sport" would know of stuff going on just through contact, shops, etc. Thinking about bigger questions like who is the tour really for, what does it accomplish, best media outlet to reach fans, etc will probably help most understand a lot more. Also, there is a point where the additional marketing cost just doesn't do anything and isn't worth it, some sound like they expect every marketing $ spent = a $ earned. Not going to happen that way. Lastly, by marketing at high levels, and hitting John Public, you also hit the environmentalists and other groups (fishermen who have always wanted to use that body of water), and if you do it early enough, they could have the event shut down within a week or two or at least attract negative attention around the event. IMO, wakeboarding is small enough, those who need to know, know, and those who don't know probably shouldn't be going in the first place. It's just that many choose not to attend and then shoot holes in the the process.

Side note; my first Pro Tour I attended was in 96, and we drove 6+ hours to go to it. I went the Tuesday before (very fortunate) and hit a clinic, HyperTour stop, and more clinics the whole week leading up to it (hit my first double up with the LF guys). This was at the location, and allowed me to meet many of the stars, interact with everyone, and feel a part of it. These types of clinics, Amateur comps and such seemed to have dwindled off. Is this because of the economy, demand, access???? That may bring more of the entry level people around. Instead, I know this year there were INT, USAWake, and other competitions within the same Regions on the same dates as the Pro Tour. That's not helping anyone either
Old    UncleJessie (unclejessie)      Join Date: Jan 2004       01-04-2010, 3:53 PM Reply   
I have to agree about the lack of marketing. I have been an avid wakeboarder since 1996 and the 'economy' here in NorCal has peaked and plumeted since then. Through all of those years, you have to really pay attention to even know about the Reno Pro Tour. If an average Joe wakeboarder isn't on ww, they will never even know their is a Pro Tour Stop within a 2 hour drive. Heck, the Malibu open was 20 minutes form my house for years and I never knew it existed... until the year before it left Sacramento.

If the "economy" is driving the marketing, it is the economy of wakeboarding, not the overall economy... meaning wakeboarding, even in good times is still very small and there must not be alot of dollars avaialble, or, the tour isn't promoting themselves the way they could.

Old    justinh            01-04-2010, 4:02 PM Reply   
I think the tour is great. Where else can a no-namer throw his hat in the ring and see what he/she are made-of? The tour is a great venue for that. Even many of the purest freeriders got there spotlight with a good run at a tour-stop. Friday's are my favorite day to come out and watch: new faces and new styles.

The tour is an important part of our sport-even with its flaws.

I hope the tour continues.
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-04-2010, 4:40 PM Reply   
Well I stand corrected, We'll leave the attendance the way it is. Sorry.
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-04-2010, 4:57 PM Reply   
well I was going to let it go, But I can't. Who but John public comes out to see what's going on & now his kids are wanting to go ride like the guys they just saw ? Who buys the new board for their kids?, boats? swim wear? Is it some right of passage to have to been in the sport to come watch? So their just all 'Wally's" but they have to start somewhere. So your telling me that any of the sponsors don't want outsiders money? that the pro's don't want some newbie to come out & see them because that don't know anything about this sport? Only the insiders are going to keep the tour afloat? I don't think so, for that mater why don't wee just all hit the lake when the tour comes our way, Who wants to see some else ride when we can try to throw our own......Sounds stupid doesn't it.

(Message edited by o-town_dave on January 04, 2010)
Old    Steven Hahn (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       01-04-2010, 7:06 PM Reply   
I know the tour begins radio advertising a few weeks before the stop. Maybe you haven't heard the commercials but I have heard a few in Orlando, Reno and Arizona. Tour dates are also advertised in every major wake publication with Wakeboarding Magazine having the largest subscription base (shameful plug). Shops are given tickets to promote attendance and get people buying wake related products. FUEL TV covers the tour and has tour schedule advertising. I also think ABC does something on the wide world of sports.

But to answer Jim's question, I think the powers that be are fighting for dollars and stretching every penny to keep the tour going. I have had the pleasure of working with the people that produce the tour for the better part of the last 10 years. You couldn't find a more dedicated group of people passionate about our sport. I'm sure there are always better ways to market the tour but advertising costs money.

My question still stays the same. What is everyone doing to promote the sport? When was the last time you invited someone out that has never ridden? Taught someone to get up for the first time, or jump the wake? In my opinion the best way to get attendance up is to get people involved in our sport. That's when product sales rise, sponsors commit more money and ultimately more people are interested in attending a tour stop to see the Pro's.

I think we should have an annual Wakeworld "Take a newbie to the lake day"

Just my $.02
Old    Jim T (wkbrd)      Join Date: Mar 2006       01-04-2010, 7:25 PM Reply   
You couldn't find a more dedicated group of people passionate about our sport.- REALLY NEVER IN QUESTION. NOBODY FOR THE 100TH TIME EVER SAID THEY WERE NOT HARD WORKERS. Run the tour like a business because that is how World Pub looks at it A BUSINESS!!!!!!!! If the tour is ran like a business then it fails miserably in the marketing department. Everyone is barking about this but does ANYONE on here other that a select few even know the financials that are made off of the tour? ie sponsor booths rider entry fees, concessions? I think it may be more than some of you tend to believe. The number I heard is it cost over 1 MILLION dollars to run the tour. Just my .02 that money may need to be spent a little better.

A dub- that post is just crazy and if you believe that then there is no sense in even replying to that ignorant statement.

By Justin Harrelson (justinh) on Monday, January 04, 2010 - 3:02 pm:
Where else can a no-namer throw his hat in the ring and see what he/she are made-of? - around noon on every saturday at the AMA Supercross
Old    David Miller (otown_dave)      Join Date: Dec 2007       01-04-2010, 7:53 PM Reply   
Radio invitees , morning news people that report on fun stuff, Comp ticket hand outs for schools, I know the boat dealers hand them out but how many people stop by compared to watching their local fox news?
Old    Neil (cwbrdr)      Join Date: Jun 2008       01-05-2010, 4:23 AM Reply   
Google Pro Wakeboarding Tour what do you get? All old info. Changing info on a website = zero dollars.
New Wakeboarding Magazine Nike story with wakeboarders playing golf and a beer on the ground. Pro interviews talk more about beer than wakeboarding. good influence
Old    Denis DeYoung (doubledew)      Join Date: Jan 2010       01-06-2010, 2:36 PM Reply   
Neil: have you Googled Dew Tour, Boom Boom Huck Jam, Lucas Oil AMA MotoX? They don't have any new info either. All the extreme sports tours stop posting news once their season is over, and start again as the next season nears.

Aside from future tour dates, what new info are they supposed to be posting in the "off season"?


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