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Old    Taylor Moore (gnat87)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-10-2009, 6:47 PM Reply   
This is my winter project and I could use a little help. Ive decided to do a system on my boat and here is my list so far...

Exile Audio XM7} - 2 Pair

Amp - Need help on which one. Will only power the 4 tower speakers.

Alpine Deck - CDA9886M

Battery - Deep Cycle?

High Amp Alt. - Where will I find this, what amp do I need. The boat is a Mastercraft Maristar with the 5.7 Chevy 350

Wetsounds EQ WS420

Wetsounds XS650 - 1 Pair

I'm excited about this if you couldn't tell. Im just looking for some thoughts on this system for the guys who know. If you feel im missing something just let me know. All opinions are welcome. One last thing, what do I need to make the ipod sound the best it can. Ive read about hooking it up to the EQ, is that the way to go?
Old                11-10-2009, 7:16 PM Reply   
Amp: Arc Audio KS 300.2 (there is not a more efficent amp on the market that has the power it has). Very similar to Wetsounds SYN2 but lower cost Maybe a JL HD amp...but you going to pay top dollar.

Batteries: Deka Sea Mate AGM's (highest amp hours per dollar for an AGM. Check out the 8a24m of the 8a31m. These blow optima's away.

High amp alt: Call you local dealer and ask them who they reccomend for an alt.

Ipod: Isimple IS-75
Old    Chucktronics...Ryan (chucktronics)      Join Date: Nov 2007       11-10-2009, 7:48 PM Reply   
Taylor-

Sounds like a fun project .

Amp-murphy is right about the amplifiers, the technology arc and wetsounds both encompass is the g/h class rather than the full range class D which is not as clean as the others.

battery-lots of opinions 6v volt deep or 12 volt deep np.

high amp alt- most people wayout the cost and go with a onboard charger i.e. guest, Xantrex and so on.

The most important part of a good i-pod install is signal strength , if you use a line driver (Arc ALD) in line on the input side of the 420 you will eliminate a ton of headaches. just match signal to that of the deck.

The I-pod control from alpine would eliminate need for the line driver ,but some people are not satisfied with using the deck to control the I-pod.
Old    Taylor Moore (gnat87)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-10-2009, 9:03 PM Reply   
I cant think of a single time we float and listen to music. If we are stopped were usually talking. Is it a must to go dual battery? Is it that the stock alt cant keep the battery charged while boarding and listening to a big system on a single battery?

Thanks for the replies, im going to check into that amp right now. Also, thanks for the tips on the ipod.
Old    Taylor Moore (gnat87)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-10-2009, 9:13 PM Reply   
Murphy, since im clueless about this and just making sure, that amp will power 4 tower speakers?
Old    carlos (carlosdynamicaudiolodi)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-10-2009, 9:28 PM Reply   
Taylor we just finished a Sanger with 4 XM7s. all powered by the arc ks300.2 and it ripped only my customer wanted more. We swapped the amp out with a Hertz HP2 and it roared to life. I would have put a SE2300 but did have one. The XM7s can handle the power, go with as much power as you can. Also keep in mind the HP2 and SE2300 are more than twice the cost of a KS300.2
I don't really think it was the added power that really made the difference but the A/B class amplification.
Take it for what it's worth.
Old    Johnny Powerturn (jp1)      Join Date: May 2008       11-10-2009, 9:49 PM Reply   
Carlos I've got a Sanger as well and would love to see what and how the XM7's look on my boat

I understand they blow away wetsounds on price and sound...is this true

(Message edited by jp1 on November 10, 2009)
Old    Taylor Moore (gnat87)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-10-2009, 10:25 PM Reply   
Just from my readings about the XM7 I wouldnt say either is true. They are 850.00 a pair so thats right there with the Pro60's. I havent heard either one so I cant comment on that.
Old    carlos (carlosdynamicaudiolodi)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-10-2009, 10:36 PM Reply   
Performance wise both brands have their strong and weak points. Both are excellent quality products sound wise and build wise. You'll have to find what works best for you. As far as what sounds better I'll put it this way. If some gave you the choice between a Ferrari or Lamborghini I'm sure you would be happy with which ever you picked.
Old    Chucktronics...Ryan (chucktronics)      Join Date: Nov 2007       11-11-2009, 6:56 AM Reply   
x2^^^^^ on the AB class being a beautiful sound ,but again like the speakers ,application is important when deciding style of Amplifier and your overall investment with batteries ,cooling etc will be higher with the class AB . On the other hand you loose a slight bit of sound quality going to any other style of amplifier but gain efficiency. Except Class A which is the cleanest ,but also is like a floor standing heater when on............
Old                11-11-2009, 8:32 AM Reply   
I am running an Audiocontrol Matrix Line Driver to all three of my Arc Audio's. It is the best investment I made into my syste.

The Arc Audio 300.2 will put around 180 watts to each speaker. I bet it is half the price of the Hertz.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-11-2009, 9:08 AM Reply   
Why are you only doing one pair of XS650's? Shouldn't you do all the interior speakers the same?

I agree with Murphy on the Deka's. They make great batteries although I am a little biased as I sell them. You definitely want to do 2 batteries. I actually think all boats should have 2 batteries. I would do 2 group 27's or 31's with a combiner/seperator between them. This keeps it very simple and you don't have to switch anything by hand. It is automatic.

As far as the alternator goes you may have some problems. There isn't a good option over ~100 amps without spending an insane amount of money that will make you cry. Your best option is to upgrade to the 95amp Delco from the 70 if that is what is on your boat. That is a couple hundred bucks. You may be limited to about 100 amps anyways if your pulleys are single V pulleys. If you have serpentine pulleys you can get away with higher amp alternators. Keep in mind you will probably have to upgrade your battery cables if you go to a larger than stock alternator.

If you have the ability to plug into an AC outlet after pretty much every time you use your boat then I would do the battery upgrade and spend the money on a good 2 bank charger. Just plug the boat in every night. If you don't listen to music while just sitting this should be more than sufficient. It doesn't sound like your stereo is going to be super crazy or anything.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-11-2009, 10:13 AM Reply   
Taylor,

WetSounds & ArcAudio both use class AB output stages in their G/H amplifiers. The difference in class G/H topology is primarily in the power supply section. You're going to get greater efficiency with a G/H amplifier. There are various sizes and levels of quality in anything. To put Class D into perspective, many Class D amplifiers are vastly superior to the digital-to-analog conversions or compressed files found in our source units or program material. After listening to the 'best' against the 'best', I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the class of amplifier, provided its from a leading brand and particularly in the context of the marine environment. You're getting the highest efficiency available in a Class D amplifier.

A dual battery set-up with switch and a good AC shore battery charger has countless benefits and is more cost-effective than upgrading your alternator. From a priority standpoint, consider a new alternator as the last step.

The Alpine source unit has a dedicated iPod input. Most people are very satisfied with the level of processing and display, especially since this provides for remote control operation. For those who wish to maintain the menu on the iPod, you can still introduce it into the Alpine source unit with different adapters. This way the overall volume will still be controlled via any remote controls that you might add.

We install Exile, WetSounds and HollowPoints HLCDs which are all excellent products in every respect. The XM-7s and Pro60s do go head-to-head in size and cost. They have their own sonic signatures and preference becomes very subjective. None of the three have a distinct advantage. They all have slightly different and unique characteristics, but as a group all of the HLCDs sound radically different than conventional speakers. I would look for some other defining benefit in making a choice.

With the filling in of a few details it looks like you're on the right path.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Brian (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-11-2009, 11:31 AM Reply   
Taylor - Sounds like your winter will be busy. I think a lot of guys are spending the winter doing the upgrades so they are ready to hit the water in the spring. Smart!

re: Amplifiers. The XM7's love power. The more the better. HLCD's want to project and to do this you have to FEED them. In the spring Exile will bring back to our lineup a bad boy 2 channel amplifier. We used to offer an X600.2 but disco'd it a few years back. This new version will launch in the spring and offer some cool built in features the marine world has never seen. I'll keep it secret for now. I think all of the brands mentioned make good two channel amplifiers so you might look at overall physical size / install aspects.

re: XM7 mounts. We also make a CNC mounting plate for your MasterCraft tower which will allow direct integration and retain the ability to quick disconnect your speakers. This is definitely a defining benefit.

Shoot me an email to brian@exileaudio.com and I can send you some more information.

Peace!

-Brian
Exile Audio
Old    carlos (carlosdynamicaudiolodi)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-11-2009, 12:16 PM Reply   
Brian , I'm an Exile insider. I want details on the 2 ch. is this the one we talked about?
Old    Taylor Moore (gnat87)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-11-2009, 8:59 PM Reply   
Brett, Only one pair of the 650's because my back two sony's are junk. I just bought the boat the beginning of last summer and thats what the PO had. Id like them all to match, but for now Id rather spend the money elsewhere than replace the good ones. Honestly we never ride with the music up loud in the boat. Im really just looking the motivational experience while foiling and boarding.

Alot of good info in this thread and thanks to everyone thats helped so far. Now im scratching the alt. and going with a on board charger, which one do you recommend?

David and Brian, thank you as well for the lesson on amps.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-11-2009, 9:19 PM Reply   
Taylor, I don't think you can beat the Xantrex Pro Charge 2. They make a 20 or 40 amp 2/3 bank charger. I sell them but I think you can find a better price online. I would get one of those and a linklite digital voltage gauge so lyou can monitor the stereo bank.
Old    Taylor Moore (gnat87)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-11-2009, 9:21 PM Reply   
Had a couple messages asking me which boat I have, so I thought I would post a couple pictures.

95' Mastercraft Maristar 200
New Dimension Tower and Tower Biminis Bimini


Upload
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Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-12-2009, 8:48 AM Reply   
Definitely no point in upgrading your alternator past 90-100 amps. The single V pulley won't handle anymore than that. That being said your boat may only have a 50-60 amp alternator and depending on what size cables are currently on the boat the only modification you may have to do is to just replace the alternator which would just bolt in for the most part. I have OEM alternators from Leece Neville and Delco that would be just over $200.
Old    Ben (soundbox)      Join Date: Oct 2007       11-12-2009, 12:57 PM Reply   
Taylor - I agree with Ryan and David on their views on the different amps available. My choice would be the KS300.2. It has the sound quality of an AB with the efficiency of a class d as David stated earlier. The SE2300 would be overkill and the Hertz would be if you had money to blow.
I would follow the advise of David and Brett on the batteries. We have great luck with dual bank systems that incorporate an automatic isolator/combiner from Blue Sea and an on-board charger from Guest

Keep us posted on your progress.

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