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Old    FJK (ship_of_fools)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-03-2009, 7:47 PM Reply   
I just installed a Clarion EQS 746 and now I have a pop in my speakers when I hit the trim button.

I have all the stereo equipment running on it's own battery and everything is grounded back to that battery.

The RCA's cables are not ran by any power wires.

The pop may have been there before the EQ but, if it was, it was definitely much quieter. I do not recall ever hearing it before but I pulled the RCA's from the EQ and went back to the amps from the HU and there was a slight noise when I hit the trim (but I did leave the power, remote power and ground still going to the EQ)

Any ideas on how to eliminate this?

Thanks
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-04-2009, 9:10 AM Reply   
FJK,

First, turn down your amplifier input gains.

Second, make sure that your source unit ground and EQ ground are commonly connected to or very near the ground terminal of your largest amplifier, which is then grounded at the battery. This is more important than the battery reference. Also, a ground loop isolator on a strategic RCA may reduce the problem but is a last resort, as its a band-aid and not a cure.

Make sure that the switch, relay and/or trim pump is adequately grounded to the battery or engine block and not just the dash ground. That's a start. It may be more involved. We carry filters for the trim switch, relay or pump contacts if it comes to that.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    FJK (ship_of_fools)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-06-2009, 10:15 PM Reply   
Thanks for the reply David.

I played around with this a little more but still not having any luck.

The HU, EQ, and all the amps and are grounded to the same dist block, which is grounded to the negative stereo battery post.

There are several wires going directly into the controller, none of them appear to be a ground (??). There is a small ground bus by the controller and another by the trim pump. I ran a wire from both of these to the negative ground on the starting battery and I still get the pop when I hit either the trim up/down switch or the up trailer trim switch.

I found this link for filters on your website:

http://www.earmarkcaraudio.com/Xcart/product.php?productid=16597&cat=0&page=1

Would this be what I need or is there something else to try first?

I am not sure of the wiring on the trim switches. There is a set of 2 wires going to the tether kill switch, a set of four wires that are ran together and then another set of 2 that are going into the rear of the controller.

I have the schematics but they aren't much help.

If I need to get filters, I am not sure how many and where to put them.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       11-09-2009, 12:52 PM Reply   
FJK,

You would need one filter for each switch position (up or down) that creates the noise. From your description it sounds like you need a total of three.

General installation instructions are included. But, they won't identify the schematic nor location of each wire or component since it varies with each boat. You'll need to be handy with a multimeter. Or, you may need to find a good local install tech.

You might also have to try a ground loop isolator on the RCAs.

I'm more concerned about any difference in potential between the stereo components than I am with the resistance between the components and the battery.

Also, I don't trust the grounds for the trim relays/controller and pump, especially if terminated at the helm buss.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-09-2009, 1:40 PM Reply   
Are your batteries fully charged? Does it do it with the boat running?
Old    Sam (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       11-09-2009, 1:48 PM Reply   
FJK, this was a common problem in supra's for a while. The fix is installing a resitor inline on the trim switch. Most dealers should know about the fix. You can buy them at radio shack.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       11-09-2009, 2:09 PM Reply   
If your boat was built by ABYC standards, the trim wiring will be standardized in color. The blue wire with the white stripe, (or white with blue stripe) is TRIM UP. The green with white stripe, (or white with green stripe) is TRIM DOWN. This is standard for both inboard, I/O, and outboard boats, and applies to both I/O drive trim pumps, and any inboard boat trim plates, regardless their use.


I have attached a simple pic showing a typical filter cap installation for the trim circuit. One filter cap for each trim control wire, and then both filter caps are tied to ground. This usually removes any noise left over after a careful gain re-setting. the non-polar electrolytics I use are also sold by stereo shops as bass blockers. It should not be hard to find them.

I prefer to install these near the trim switch, just to get them out of the engine compartment. I do not know if they would ever blow, but if they did with a spark, you probably do not want them in your engine compartment. They remove the noise in either location, but are a little safer out of the engine compartment.

Upload

I also have included a generic schematic for getting rid of any other solenoid or relay induced pops. Finding the wiring to these other offending noise sources is a little more tricky, but not impossible.

Upload

Hopefully this helps!

Phil
Kicker
Old    FJK (ship_of_fools)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-09-2009, 5:35 PM Reply   
Thanks for the help guys.

It does do this with the boat running and the batteries are fully charged.

Adjusting the gains did help but there is still a small pop there. It is worse on the trailer trim up button then on the trim up/down button.

I found a better schematic and though it is similar to what I have it is not exact. It shows the green/wht & blu/wht (plus pur/wht and red/wht) wires as Phil mentions but in reality mine are solid colors - green, blue, red and purple.

There are also 2 yel/red wires that per the schematic are for "Neutral Switch to Instrument Wiring Harness". I assume these are the wires that prevent you from starting the boat when it is in gear?? If so, I shouldn't have to mess with them.

So, it looks as if Phil's diagram is what I need to do. I'm just not sure if both the trailer up button and the trim up button are both the same wire. I will try to pick up these filter caps at Radio Shack and give them a try on the blue and green wires. I will report back how it goes.

Thanks again everyone!
Old    FJK (ship_of_fools)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-09-2009, 7:35 PM Reply   
OK, I went to Best Buy and they didn't have anything in stock. So I went to Radio Shack and picked up a couple of 50WVDC 100uF electrolytic capacitors (Radio Shacks number 272-1044).

But, I don't think these are non-polar. One lead is shorter then the other and is identified by (-). Will these still work?

If they won't, I am gong to be pissed because I will be out $1.94 ea!

Thanks

(Message edited by ship_of_fools on November 09, 2009)
Old    FJK (ship_of_fools)      Join Date: Sep 2007       11-13-2009, 8:15 PM Reply   
Phil -you da man!! No more pop!!

Thank you for the tip and the wiring diagram.

The Radio Shack caps worked even though they are polarized.
Old    Psyclone (cyclonecj)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-14-2009, 7:53 AM Reply   
You are fine as long as you observed polarity.
Old    Scottie (ssmith)      Join Date: Jan 2010       08-23-2010, 1:27 AM Reply   
Resurrecting this old thread.....

I've never had any problems with the factory system I had. However, I only had 1 amp powering the 4 tower speakers and a sub. All of the in boat speakers were run off the HU.

I've just done a stereo upgrade and now have 3 amps (nothing is run off the HU now). I now have the popping noise alot of people talk about. However, I also get static over my speakers when the blower is turned on.

Has anyone experienced this???
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       08-23-2010, 7:35 AM Reply   
Scottie-

The sound of the noise is different, but the cause is similar or same. Fans typically create buzzing or static as you say, and it really is just a rapid series of little pops like the trim switch creates.

Treating fan noise is basically the ame as treating pops. Go through all the remedy items David at Earmark and I suggest in this thread, starting with turning the gains down if they are too high, and observing proper marine audio power and grounding practice. If that doesn't fix it, you will want to install some capacitors as recomended in this thread.

It is really not too hard to fix, just take a systematic logical approach and do the proper things, in order... We'll talk ya through it and answer questions....

Phil
Kicker
Old    Scottie (ssmith)      Join Date: Jan 2010       08-24-2010, 8:37 PM Reply   
Phil,

Thanks for the reply. I installed the capacitors on the wake plate trim today (2 total, 1 up and 1 down) without any luck. The pop is still there. I messed around with it a bit more and have discovered that basically all the accessories (trim, ballast, blower, 12v outlet) I tested created either a pop or static in the speakers. I know we did zip tie alot of the wires together so I'm going to break those loose and create some distance between the RCA's, speaker wire and power cables. Maybe that will help. This is all very frustrating to say the least. Will this noise damage speakers or is it more of a nuisance? Either way, I want it fixed. It seems odd to me that I didn't have this problem before and do now. However, there's a lot more wire and more amps. Its strange though that it affects all the accessories.

Last edited by ssmith; 08-24-2010 at 8:47 PM.
Old    Phil White (philwsailz)      Join Date: Feb 2009       08-25-2010, 6:49 AM Reply   
Scottie-

Did you use poplar or non-polar caps? If you used polar, there is a chance you wired then in backwards.

Re-bundling wires can help sometimes, but it usually is not the cuplrit people make it out to be...

Where is your radio power connected to the boat's electrical system? Over the last 6 or so years we have deteremined that for the quietest noise-free installation, your head unit needs to get it power at the same voltage potential and ground plane as your amps, and the easiest way to do that is to wire your head unit's power wires, (red, yellow, and black) directly to your largest amplifier. From the factory, most head units are wired into the helm wiring and often even on a different battery from the amps, and this is a very common cause for noise.

Your yellow wire needs to go straight to the +12v terminal of your biggest amp. The black needs to go to the ground terminal of your amp. The radio's red wire needs to go through a switch of some sort. Many times, we use a 30A relay which allows us to use the old switch power lead, (the old red one) as a trigger for the relay. That way, you can can turn your head unit on and off the way you used to. IF by chance you have a simple switch at your helm that turns the radio on and off, you can just disconnect the wiring from it, (taping it off or removing a fuse to prevent a short) and use the switch on a new run of red power wire from the qamp, through the switch, and to the head unit.

I have attached a couple of non-schematics, (actually pictures) that show the twop options I describe. If you did not re-wire your head units power when you added the amps, this may very well take care of it. I have also added a 3rd pic to show the use of a 30A relay when three or more amplifiers are used. Many times, the turn-on circuit of a typical radio will not have the oomph to drive 3 amps, os it is often a good idea to use a relay to get power to the turn on connectors of the amps.


Outside of re-wiring your head unit power, understand that the very condition you describe of hearing lots of noise from all accessories is a very common symptom of gains being turned way too high. Please check your gains again, if they are over half-way up, you probably have an issue. Ideally, you want your gain controls as low as possible, not the other way around...

Good luck, study the pics,ask questions, and let us know!

Phil
Kicker
Attached Images
   

Last edited by philwsailz; 08-25-2010 at 6:59 AM.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       08-25-2010, 8:13 AM Reply   
Just want to add something to Phil's statements all of which are very accurate. Most will not understand the difference in wiring all source electronics to the largest amplifier terminals versus directly to the battery since both go there anyway. It may not represent much of a difference when the source electronics, amplifiers and batteries are all tightly packed in the same port locker. However, when the source unit and/or batteries are positioned around the boat then the right reference point becomes a bigger deal. Referencing everything to the batteries in that case will not be as effective.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    nEwJ_HoSeR (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-09-2014, 10:03 PM Reply   
I seriously wouldn't resurrect a dead tread in the summer but since it's spring what the heck.

I need this fix but I have no clue how to wire these capacitors in. Literally no clue. These things look like corn cob holders, how do I wire them in? I totally get the location. Just not the how to. Thanks ahead of time for any help.
Old    Nikolas Dramountanis (Greeko)      Join Date: May 2013       04-10-2014, 2:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytdubb View Post
I seriously wouldn't resurrect a dead tread in the summer but since it's spring what the heck.

I need this fix but I have no clue how to wire these capacitors in. Literally no clue. These things look like corn cob holders, how do I wire them in? I totally get the location. Just not the how to. Thanks ahead of time for any help.
Cut the positive wire you plan to connect to and put in a butt connector in its place. On one side strip the wire and wrap the long lead of the capacitor. If you can solder do this, if not just twist them together and put the butt connector on. connect the short lead to negative/ground via butt connector, add a longer wire and a ring terminal to hook it onto your battery ground or distribution block.
Old    nEwJ_HoSeR (tinytdubb)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-11-2014, 11:11 AM Reply   
Greeko. That helps. Thank you. The trim tab on my Supra makes a world of difference in wake shaping. But the popping deters me from using it and it makes my Pro80's sound like they're going to blow. I'm shocked that I can't find a YouTube on this

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