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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through July 24, 2009

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Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-15-2009, 6:53 AM Reply   
I forgot to edit the beginning before uploading to YouTube, so skip 50 seconds in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjDTX55gTng

This is 19 MPH, 60 foot rope, and no ballast in the boat. Can you help me correct my form and get some more height?

Thanks
Old    Nathan Zirbel (zirb3l)      Join Date: Jan 2008       07-15-2009, 7:27 AM Reply   
your edge.

When you started off towards the wake you did one of those quick turn things and then slowed down as you got to the wake. You should speed up slowly so that your going your fastest as you hit the wake. then just stand tall and hold your edge.

i still have trouble with my edge, it seems like edging is hard to get right if you did it wrong for so long. Your brain just doesn't want to do it differently
Old    Nick in the TC (nick_in_ssp)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-15-2009, 8:03 AM Reply   
How long is your rope, it looks kind of short. I think you should add 5' or maybe even 10' and speed up to about 22 mph. That will allow you to have more swing and get away from the wake a little farther so you have some time to set up for your jump. Cut out a good distance from the wake and start your edge slower than what your doing and build speed throw the whole edge to the wake.
Old    Adam R (wakecumberland)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-15-2009, 8:50 AM Reply   
Jon, I havent watched the video but Nick is probably on to something. 19mph @ 60' does seem pretty low. I think if you bumped the speed up and added 5' you would like it. If you want to try to hook up this weekend I would be happy to help you out. It looks like I will be bringing my boat over to Malone and we will be there Friday evening and camping and all day Saturday. Actually, I was hoping to ride early Saturday morning and I could use another rider if you want to come down and ride with us. Shoot me an email if you want to hook up.

Another thing that I have found that helps is the video linked below. A buddy I ride with was having a hard time with his timing and he watched this video about 10 times a day for a week and the next time we went out he was in the flats!

http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=2258
Old    Luke Power (powercorps)      Join Date: Nov 2006       07-15-2009, 9:52 AM Reply   
yeah your doing the opposite edge you should be doing. When you start your cut you have a real good edge and then you back off right before the wake. Switch it around so you start of only drifting toward the wake and then slowly edge harder and harder (progressive edge). I agree with the short line analysis. the speed looked ok but when you go with a longer line you usually have to bump the speed up. One last thing I noticed is that when you are cutting in.... especially the closer to the wake you get you look to be very back foot heavy. Try balancing it out a bit.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-15-2009, 10:34 AM Reply   
try going faster. like 22
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-15-2009, 10:36 AM Reply   
also, try better music!.
just playing.

but what helped me to start getting more pop was to start grabbing. it forces you to pull your knees up and for some reason when i know im going to grab, i always get more pop. its kind of weird
Old    Jon Hunter (hunter660)      Join Date: Aug 2007       07-15-2009, 10:39 AM Reply   
Music was based off the fact that may parents and 4 & 6 year old son were in the boat.
Old    Thomas James Arballo (thomas_arballo)      Join Date: Mar 2009       07-15-2009, 11:16 AM Reply   
Edge is pretty good, but like that first dude said, you really want a nice, progressive edge towards the wake...So make the turn a little slower and then accelerate while you're approaching.

To get height, try standing tall when you take off the wake. It's all about timing man. But good video. Keep riding
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       07-15-2009, 11:56 AM Reply   
i was just kidding jon, we listen to some weid stuff on the boat. every trip to the lake hast to include "our song" by taylor swift. and "we wish you a merry christmas" by bing crosby. that song is always played at 3/4 volume on the way into the dock in the no wake zone. and when tons of people are around and im riding. it gets funny looks
Old    Fro-Z (froese)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-15-2009, 12:32 PM Reply   
Bagpipes are the bomb to crank up!! I love playing some good bagpipe music - some cheer while others just have a dumbfounded look on their face...

Jon, as said above - slow your cut down. You're going so fast that you're just skimming across both wakes and not really popping up. Also, watch the video again and look at the bend in your knees. Your legs never really straighten out - they stay bent and absorb all of the energy when you hit the wake. Straighten your legs at the top of the wake and release that energy up instead of absorbing it with your knees.
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-18-2009, 1:42 AM Reply   
The term 'progressive edge', I think, does little to help people understand what they really need to do. I was having a hard time getting height until Rick F told me not to think about my edge..but to think about building tension. It changed my whole view, and improved my riding 100% overnight. Concentrate on building tension in the line at the right time...that is what you are trying to do anyway.

Here are the steps to a good high wake jump, not that I do them correctly every time...but when I do what I say below...the jump is perfect, high, and fully controlled.

Before you start->Learn to edge strongly. If you can't edge well...you are done before you start. I see a lot of people that are not patient enough to learn to edge and they get frustrated that they can't jump well. When I started...I would spend whole sets doing edge drills, edging away from the boat, concentrating on good body position.

Use the shoulders to lever against the line and build tension. You can do this in a deep seated (knees deeply bent) position, or a tall (knees barely bent) position...or anywhere in between. It is all about arching and moving your shoulders back. This is the 'switch' so to speak that initiates a strong edge. (Watch a YouTube vid of Nick Davies on the cable to see how his shoulder and upper body position correlates to his edge.)

Try this drill...As you edge out away from the wake in the flat, pick a target point in the water that will be your 'max tension' point. About 8-10 feet before you hit it, start increasing line tension by arching and bringing your shoulders back. Hold your lower body position as you increase tension. As you build tension, your will have to angle the board more against the water. This will come automatically because if you do not do this..you will get pulled off your edge and slide. Try to time it so you have built max tension at your target point. This excercise will teach you the timing of the 'progressive edge' everyone talks about...but no one really explains well.

Assuming you have a strong edge and can time a build in line tension to occur over 8-12 feet....the next step is the Vulcan, assuming your health insurance is paid up..

Just kidding..time for the HS W2W jump.

1. Make a consistent approach out. Always edge out the same distance. When you start...it is better to edge out too little. Too far out will give you too much time to mess up by letting line tension drop at the worst moment.

After you have edged out....set your body position (bend your knees) and just drift. I think a deeper body position with a good bend in the knees is good when you are learning. This will help you learn to convert tension into height.

Important!
As you set your position, shift your focus to the base of the wake....ie LOOK where your target it. LOOK at it...focus on it. Super important. When I start jumping poorly...it is often because I am not focusing on my target.

2. As you start to gain speed in toward the wake be patient...wait wait wait...until you are about 12 feet from your target point....the base of the wake. Once you get this close...you are going to arch (bring your belly up) and bring your shoulders back to build that tension in the line. Your target is the base of the wake. You want to steadily build tension right up until you are at that point. Don't think about 'progressive edging'...that will just mess with your head. Think about BUILDING TENSION in the line right to your target point.

3. At the base of the wake, initiate a standing motion where you stand on your heels. DO NOT TRY TO JUMP. The reason you think about standing on your heel is that it will also bring your hips forward. Try it. Try standing up on your heels without your hips coming forward. So instead of telling someone to stand tall and bring your hips forward...just tell them to stand on their heels at the base of the wake. The reason I like to target the base of the wake...is that if you try to stand tall at the peak of the wake...you will be too late. Note that if you set a deeper bodyposition (knees well bent) you will be standing from a deeper, sitting position, giving more up pop.

4. Final step. As you stand tall on your heels...drive the handle down and in. Imagine it is a stick and you are going to break it over your legs. This is the step I often MESS UP. You can do everything right....and mess this up...and blow your jump. If you do this step right, however, you can mess up other previous parts..and still land the jump because you are well balanced at takeoff and in the air.

5. Spot your landing and bend your knees.

Well that is how I break down a good wake jump. Others may have better ways to explain it. I am pretty methodical...so that is how I look at it...

(Message edited by kitewake on July 18, 2009)
Old    woody (bwood)      Join Date: Jul 2003       07-18-2009, 3:47 AM Reply   
Brant, that was awesome. That was the best I ever herd anybody explane it.
Old    Brant Williams (kitewake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-18-2009, 9:37 PM Reply   
I may be a noob...but that means I learned this stuff more recently that most...so it is fresh in my mind. I have not internalized it all yet. It is not automatic...which means I get in a bad groove sometimes...and my jumps go to crap. But when I go back to these steps...it always comes back.

I have been able to go W2W since I started riding...but it was not until I started thinking in terms of line tension that I started to get real height in my jumps (as opposed to the newbie high speed low alt W2W jump).

Rick Farrington is the one who stressed to me that line tension is what you should think about...and it changed my riding much for the better....
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       07-19-2009, 9:07 PM Reply   
wow. that was an awesome explanation. never heard it like that
Old    John (johndk)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-20-2009, 11:00 PM Reply   
The music is good. Unfortunately today's music is mostly crap .
Old    Joseph (martinez30)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-22-2009, 9:04 PM Reply   
Bravo to the explanation given by Brant.
I actually do that when I am riding and it works for me.

Thanks for posting.
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       07-22-2009, 9:24 PM Reply   
Add 2500lbs of ballast speed up to 22mph...
Old    Ridin Dirty (duffy)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-22-2009, 10:10 PM Reply   
Nice explanation Brant, hell I'm going to use that LOL!

Jon,

Also dont listen to the ones about rope length and speed. That has nothing to do with it. In fact when starting out you should be on a shorter rope at a slower speed. This will teach you how to edge and set up properly. Once your comfortable then ride longer and faster. Although you don't have too. It's all in what your comfortable doing and what you want to accomplish.

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