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Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-16-2009, 11:16 AM Reply   
had my Answer closed toes as tight as I could wrench them down and still ended up jamming the toe into the front, broke in 2 places and has a bone fragment floating around. Have to see the specialist tomorrow but the Answers are DONE!
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       06-16-2009, 11:18 AM Reply   
Time for some '09 Murray's. My foot doesn't move an inch!

Sorry to hear that man. Broken toes can be really painful. Heal up fast and get back on the horse!
Old    Tyler Vreeland (tvreeland)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-16-2009, 11:22 AM Reply   
I hope your foot doesn't move an inch. That would be like 3 sizes too big.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-16-2009, 11:23 AM Reply   
This is happening more and more.
Old    Brooke (dizzyg)      Join Date: May 2005       06-16-2009, 11:40 AM Reply   
I'm sticking to my open toe ways! All of my toes were over the footbed of my LF Transits this weekend, other times enough that I know I'd have smacked the front of a closed toe.

I have narrow feet, I've never had a binding that I could get tight enough and when I try it just makes my feet hurt. I like them a little loose, actually enjoy a crash with a full on ejection. If it's hard enough to eject me, I'm glad I came out.
Old    Sam (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-16-2009, 12:23 PM Reply   
I've ridden closed toes in teh past and still rock the open toes, but I guess even on toeside landings I'm not landing that much on edge to where my foot wants to slide forward...what were you trying when it happened?
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-16-2009, 12:32 PM Reply   
W2W that got a little out of control, nothing more.
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-16-2009, 5:51 PM Reply   
I broke my ankle in CT's two summers ago. I bought the bindings in the same size as I wear in a regular shoe, but the bindings were large enough to allow my ankle to roll in the binding result in a tib/fib break that required a plate and screw to repair, not to mention an ended season. I switched back to OT last summer to gain my confidence back and I am still in OT's, but I have ridden in a couple different CT's. I'm not saying that I'm done with CT's, however, I will never buy another pair without trying them on the water first and ensuring that they fit correctly.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-16-2009, 6:22 PM Reply   
Thats crazy. Sorry to hear. Hopefully you wont need any major operation. J-rod is right though, you do hear this happening more and more.

On a side note I do not understand how this happens to you guys. My whole wakeboarding time line of 15 years I have never once had my foot move forward in a boot and even now with the Marek boots that I ride my foot has never been more solidly in place. Call me a freak I guess but I just dont understand it
Old    Soli (nsolis220)      Join Date: May 2007       06-16-2009, 6:47 PM Reply   
i think there are several factors contributing to this.

some brands make ct's that fit more than one size. ie cwb they make thier in large to fit 11-12 and med are 8-10 so do you get lrgs if you wear a 10.5 or meds? if you go large they def wont fit as tight as someone who has a 12 in size 12's

if you have a narrow foot. It makes it hard to clamp down all the way and you again get movement.

the only ct's i have liked that didnt do that are slingshots. I have size 11 for my feet which are small 11's. The liners make it so my feet dont slide and wrap well around them.

I have tried shanes and 3ds's i was going to get some answers but this post made me not.
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-16-2009, 9:20 PM Reply   
I tryed telling people this....but they don't believe me. "They probably didn't fit right" is what I would hear. They fit perfect, but I still broke my toe as well. It can happen no matter what. Sorry to hear about your toe brotha, hopefully your back on the water in to time at all.
Old    Mark Griffin (cheesydog)      Join Date: Mar 2009       06-16-2009, 9:22 PM Reply   
it must be narrow feet, Ive got pretty wide feet and never had a problem with CT's or my foot moving forward at all really, and Ive ridden LF's, Ronix, New Schnitzel, Hyperlites and currently Company
Old    Ellijah Johns (eliwake)      Join Date: Jun 2009       06-16-2009, 9:46 PM Reply   
I have rode open toe and closed toe bindings. I now have a set of closed toe murrays, love them! At first it was hard to get use to because I couldn't feel the water on my toes. My feet don't move any.
Old    George (raftisland)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-16-2009, 9:53 PM Reply   
your feet shouldnt move at all in closed toe bindings in any brand, if you feet shift forward you got the wrong size. sorry to hear about your injury. fast recovery.
Old    B Poser (bbr)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-16-2009, 10:05 PM Reply   
Yup your right, I got the wrong size....what was I thinking!! I don't know anything about wakeboarding, or how to properly size my boots.

That's funny! No matter what you wear, your feet will move around, especially if you land weird, have a hard crash, etc, etc, etc. To say that your feet won't move at all is laughable. That's like saying you won't blow your knee out if you wear a brace! If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen.
Old    Adam Balon (adam_balon)      Join Date: Jul 2003       06-16-2009, 10:07 PM Reply   
open toe for me.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       06-16-2009, 10:40 PM Reply   
Nick, I would agree with what you're saying on the sizing of the boots. As with any wakeboard boot the CWB stuff is better when tried on and played with. If you have a 10.5 get a Medium, that will be about perfect.

Something that used to be talked about more when bindings were a little more basic was how to custom fit your boots. Now people just get em hot and are ready to go. Whether it be gas pedals, removed overlays or beefing up a foot bed; making you boot fit you will make a world of difference. Spend a little time to make it right.

So you guys that got hurt, do you guys have narrow or wide feet? Brandon, I know you are just brittle.
Old    George (raftisland)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-16-2009, 10:49 PM Reply   
BBR your foot should no be able to slide enough to break your toes...
Old    Brett Treiber (pc_sledge)      Join Date: Jan 2006       06-17-2009, 5:02 AM Reply   
Ian, that sucks bro! Hate to see a homie go down, especially this time of the year. Speedy recovery. Will this injury affect your beer drinking?
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-17-2009, 5:43 AM Reply   
If I've got the wrong size....then I want someone to put them on and take them off for me! Currently rocking OT Zeus's due to a painful toe jam experience, and am right in the area where I could go with a med or large. I went medium, and crank those things down (did the same with some Shanes and Answers I've tried out) and whenever I come down hard on my heels, my front foot slips forward to the point I'll either jam a toe, or have to re-position my foot by stomping in the water a bit. This has been my experience with all bindings, not just my current set-up, although it is minimized by them. I know for a fact I won't fit into smalls, so it's not a sizing issue. For me, I choose to do a copule funky looking ollies in the flats to get my foot back in place instead of ending my day because I can't walk.

All in all, I don't understand why so many people swear by CT. Don't get me wrong, you feel locked down with your toes in, and if I didn't have to worry about breaking a toe, I'd probably rock them, but until I can try out a pair (which is super tough in NE as we have like 3 boardshops in the whole state and rarely let you demo) which I don't have that problem in, I'll be in OT's
Old    Ben Ax (hawkeye7708)      Join Date: Feb 2007       06-17-2009, 6:27 AM Reply   
Yeah, I've been riding CT boots for the last 3 years and have never ran into this problem... I'd agree it may be about sizing. Hope ya feel better captain!!
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-17-2009, 7:16 AM Reply   
I absolutely do not like CWB boots, I could never find any that made me feel reaaaally secure.

CT boots with a liner are the only way to go, no chance of that sort of injury ever happening (Slingshot/Company)
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-17-2009, 7:56 AM Reply   
Does sound like a size issue, even though that isn't what you want to hear. In the end closed toed bindings aren't much different from snowboard boots, and this type of injury typically is due to the wrong sized boot in snow boarding, where the air is bigger and the speed is faster. Not saying you can't break a toe with the correct size on a funny landing, but odds are it's size.
Old    Ian Brown (wakereviews)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-17-2009, 8:40 AM Reply   
how is it a size issue when I wear a size 9 and purchased Medium (8-10) sized bindings? If it is a size issue it is a CWB sizing issue IMO. I dont have a board shop within a 3 hour drive of here.

Just got back from orthopedic surgeons office, have to have surgery Monday for this ridiculous crap. Apparently I just shattered the bone and need pins to put it back together.

Brett, beer drinking is still good thank god :-) Otherwise the ENTIRE summer would be worthless!!
Old    Eubanks (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       06-17-2009, 8:53 AM Reply   
Dude, sorry to hear that. I think the number sizes really don't matter because everybody likes a different fit to their boots. In my old Murray bindings I wore a size small which they say fits a size 5-7 foot even though I wear a size 8.5 shoe. The footbed was the same length as the small-medium and mediums but the overlays were much tighter which I liked.

So I think it depends on the style of boot and how you like them to fit. I can't even move my toes a centimeter in my '09 Murray bindings even if I try. I'm not worried about hitting my toes at all but I think it's more to do with how tight I get my laces and the strap on the boots. It forces my foot to stay back against the heel of the binding.

Get well soon!
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-17-2009, 8:55 AM Reply   
See I think that's the problem, the fact that they're a size grouping rather than just one size. I don't how a company makes a closed toe binding that fits multiple sizes, just asking for trouble. Snowboard boots are fit to your feet, not a group of feet, though I recently lost my toenail due to mine getting too small. My drivers are one size. That sucks about your toe. I still prefer closed toed bindings, feel i get a better response on my edges, just like toe caps in snowboarding do.
Old    J Jakober (jjakober)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-17-2009, 12:11 PM Reply   
All this sizing talk is what is truly wrong with CT boots.

What performance advantage do you get from a CT boot, that you wouldn't get from a OT boot built exactly like it, except with no toe covering?

The only advantages would be, warmth, and protection for your toes when hitting obstacles.

If you can come up with more advantages, I'm all ears!
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-17-2009, 12:40 PM Reply   
Already, brought up one in my post. You do have a slightly better heal edge response from a closed toed binding, due the leverage you can get from the movement of your toes, much like the toe caps in snowboarding offer.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-17-2009, 12:46 PM Reply   
one of the magazines should do an article on Pro's with Pro Model boots and their feet characteristics. I don't think I'll ever ride anything other than Shane's due to how well they fit, my friend says the same about his Watsons. Maybe we have similar feet to theirs? However, they may actually use the same footbeds? My theory, if a pro has shorter, fatter feet, their binding won't work for a person with along thin foot. Prob totally wrong though.
Old    Jeffrey Blanchard (eternalshadow)      Join Date: Nov 2001       06-17-2009, 12:48 PM Reply   
Every binding fits a bit different, within companies and of course between companies. That being said I've had Transits that were too small to ride in comfortably for longer than 10-15 minutes (I have wide fronts and narrow heels) and I've still almost put half my foot through the front on the odd weird fall.

I'm riding the LF Vantage now because with the 3 strap velcro overlay it allows me to do as Big Heavy is saying, customize. Instead of multiple lace systems I have my straps that I can cinch down as hard as I need to at relatively well positioned points. My ankles really hard, top of my foot fairly hard, the bottom of my foot near my toes, just snug.

Try on as many bindings as you can, find something that fits right for your foot. I don't just mean that the size works. I try on a boot for 5-15 minutes in the shop, walk around in it if I can, I'm looking to see if there's any pressure points? If there are will they be removed with break in? Are there areas where I'm slipping or moving? If I simulate pressure from edging how do my feet react?

I've just had too many problems with bindings cutting off circulation to my legs where I have no blood flow from the knees down. Writhing in pain after I get my boots off, etc. I want a binding that will perform, fit right, and allow me to ride until I'm tired.
Old    GettingOlder (magellan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       06-17-2009, 12:50 PM Reply   
The performance benefit is a joke. Wakeskaters and surfers seem to edge just fine heelside..

I ride them as I like the feel and the look.
Old    Gene Williams (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-17-2009, 12:51 PM Reply   
We have beat this subject to death I think. Each has it's advantages and some prefer CT. I don't but to each there own.

With that, I hope companies make more Open Toe boots next year as I am very disapointed that Obrien left the high end Xenon out of the lineup.

BTW ... Andy. Did you see that Watkins was rocking an OT in the latest Decade board ad? ;)
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-17-2009, 12:55 PM Reply   
the blood flow thing is a tough balance. Sorry to keep bringing up snowboarding, but it's what i know best out of the two. Been snow boarding for about 20 years, and only wake baording for about 3.

I've always struggled with how tight my bindings were snowbaording, if they are too tight you kill the blood flow and your day, if too loose you slide around too much and lose a little response. In the end you just have to find the right boot and right binding.

With wakeboarding it's similar. I really like the closed toe binding,( the closer I can make a wakeboard to a snowbaord the better I do, hence why I struggled with my toe edge at first)

You just have to play till you find a snug fit that doesn't inhibit blood flow. I found that with the drivers, just hate all the strings.
Old    John (stoked_32)      Join Date: Aug 2007       06-17-2009, 12:56 PM Reply   
I've jammed my toe real hard on a backroll a couple times in my Zues' as well as my Ones. It didn't break, but I definately could have if I landed out in the flats. I have a size 10/10.5 foot and have medium Zues' (8-10) and size 10 Ones. I found out that when I land real hard on my heels and am standing super tall, the heel on my footbed compresses and my foot slides forward diagonally upwards. This leaves just enough room for my foot to slide forward and jam real hard. I agree that it's not the boot sizing, it's just the nature of CT boots. With that being said... When you're riding in 45-50 degree water, OT is not even an option.
Old    K.B.C.            06-17-2009, 12:56 PM Reply   
It could also be due to the material and/or different boots. I rode one pair of CT boots for 3 years and never had one stubbed toe. Just picked up a new pair this year. The material in the toe area is noticably harder/stiffer and I have had a few toe jams, nothing serious but a bit painful none the less.
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-17-2009, 12:59 PM Reply   
The performance aspect is minor, but to some it matters more. I feel much more control with closed vs open. My toe edge is stronger, and easier to transition to.

Yeah wakeskate and wakesurfers can edge, but the toe lift gives a slightly more responsive lift to the board when there is something for them to press against.
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-17-2009, 1:08 PM Reply   
surfers and wakeskaters also put arches and concave on their surfaces
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-17-2009, 1:11 PM Reply   
Good point, it's all about leverage. you can get it multiple different ways
Old    Joe Westfield (pogi)      Join Date: May 2006       06-17-2009, 1:31 PM Reply   
Sorry to hear about your injury, that sucks. I don't believe you bought the wrong size.

I have skinny feet and have never had a pair of boots that my foot didn't slide forward in at least once. I've tried closed toes and hate them, and of course I wore the right size. I could wiggle my toes all around in them. My toes are locked down tighter in open toe boots that they are in closed toe! So I don't believe in the 'heel side edge advantage' either.

However there is no arguing that closed toes are heavier, stinkier, and lead to toe injuries. The only advantage I agree with is their warmer, but I've never quit a set because my toes were too cold.

If you guys want to buy em for whatever the reason, that is fine, but please, quit telling people people that just lost their season to a broken toe, that they bought the wrong size!
Old    Chris (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-17-2009, 1:34 PM Reply   
Both the leverage and the possibility of the size being wrong are valid. Does that mean it's the case here, no, but could very well be.
Old    D C (dirwoody)      Join Date: Apr 2003       06-17-2009, 3:44 PM Reply   
Thank you Joe.
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       06-18-2009, 8:31 AM Reply   
sorry man that sucks, I dont think its the boot .....its the sport. I have face planted plenty...with out incident but last weekend bruised or cracked a rib on a toeside 180 to faceplant....go figure.

Hope you have a speedy recovery.......oh your also not the youngest anymore!
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-18-2009, 9:15 AM Reply   
Regarding the sizing thing....not everyone likes their boots super tight. I prefer my boots a little loose so that I come out on a digger, and so that I can ride as long as I want without foot cramping. Been doing this for years, I know what I need to feel comfortable. Every once in a while, I make a mistake on a trick that results in my foot sliding forward a half inch or so. No big deal, but it would be in CT boots.
Old    Mike Vasquez (mikeakatex5)      Join Date: Jun 2009       06-18-2009, 10:01 AM Reply   
Yikes I just got some 08 Shane CT's and this thread is making me worried. I put them on and started kicking the ground with my toes and my foot didn't move at all... but I guess we'll see what happens when I dig the nose in on a lazy backroll again.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       06-18-2009, 10:08 AM Reply   
Come on now guys. Everyone knows that with closed toe bindings we can utilize the FULL leveraging power of our pinky toes and that is the real reason behind closed toes. Jeeezzzz Come on, Pinky Toe Power!!!!!!!! I mean think about it for all those years we had to just rely on the top of our foot to help us edge and didnt have the pure power of the pinky toe! GO PINKY TOE GO!
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       06-18-2009, 10:18 AM Reply   
Don't underestimate the Pinky Toe Power hahahahahahah
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       06-18-2009, 10:43 AM Reply   
You guys are jealous, I have this mole on the top of my pinky toe that gives me at least 8.774% more leverage than most. Combined with fat toes, I likely have the most leverage ever generated in a wakeboard boot. Before closed toes I could only jump toeside, now with my mole and fat toes I boost phat HS airs. How you like me now!!
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       06-18-2009, 11:15 AM Reply   
Exactly PINK TOE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old    yannick (yan_tibo)      Join Date: May 2009       06-18-2009, 11:44 AM Reply   
SORRY ABOUT YOUR TOES DAWG

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