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Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 8:24 PM Reply   
so i got to ride behind my first v drive today. (we have an I/O and to be honest. i think they are way over exaggerated. im not trying to get anyone mad. just stating my opinion. i rode in an 08 23 lsv . and we had 6 people in the boat, and with no ballast or wedge, our wake behind out 22 foot sea ray with 4 people in the boat, is taller, and steeper. so we filled the tanks, i jumped in. and thought it was mellow for what i was expecting. so we dropped the wedge to the biggest wake setting, to sleep for me. so we dropped it in between that and all the way down, and i liked the shape alot. i got more pop behind this boat, and my pop was more consistent.

but all around, i loved the layout of the boat, the wake was tight with ballast and some wedge, and i had a great time. not going to say i didnt.

but the problem, although i like the wake more then our I/O by alot. i dont think its worth the cost of a new v drive compared to what you can get in an I/O for less money. we have never put fat sacs in our boat, but i think with a 750 in the rear. and between 400 and 500 in the bow, would be equivalent. we have had 9 people in our boat, and it was pretty close to the size of the malibu, the biggest thing i liked about the malibu over ours, is auto fill ballast. just 3 buttons and the tanks are full in minutes. its tight, i like it alot. very easy compared to what we would have to do for the sacs,
but other then that. it was really easy to keep this wake clean. just move people around a little, and its supper clean, no white wash. ours is very very clean for an i/o though. so im not going to complain about ours being dirty, but we still have just a touch of white wash with only a driver and a spotter in the boat.

in conclusion though. AWESOME boat , great features, great wake. but not worth the extra dough in my oppinion.

im not looking to piss you avid v drive owners off. just giving my oppinion. if i had huge amounts of cash though. definitely would go with a V

(Message edited by lfrider92 on June 14, 2009)
Old    Jack Hinkes (jackeh)      Join Date: May 2008       06-14-2009, 8:29 PM Reply   
yeah dude except you have like the nicest, fanciest, and one of the more expensive I/O's made.

its a sweet I/O though.

Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-14-2009, 8:30 PM Reply   
You don't piss me off, but I'd be interested in seeing pics of both wakes.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-14-2009, 8:31 PM Reply   
A Sea Ray is a fancy and top end I/O??
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 8:32 PM Reply   
jack. thanks, haha. we have about 45k in our boat, AFTER the 6 k we put in the stereo, and the other few grand for the custon tower and board racks,

and cody, we left the camera in the boat, we are getting it tomarow from the owner of the boat, (my dad is building his house) ill post a pic of me riding to show the wake, and ill dig one up from behind ours to show you

(Message edited by lfrider92 on June 14, 2009)
Old    Jack Hinkes (jackeh)      Join Date: May 2008       06-14-2009, 8:33 PM Reply   
i thought so, i think they are really nice boats. and Davids is defiantly nice.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 8:33 PM Reply   
show, this is ours.
favorite pic of it
and we have another board rack on it now, we bought more boards
Upload

(Message edited by lfrider92 on June 14, 2009)
Old    Jack Hinkes (jackeh)      Join Date: May 2008       06-14-2009, 8:34 PM Reply   
for 45K you can get a really nice v-drive.
Old    BMG (wackbag)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-14-2009, 8:35 PM Reply   
David I agree first of all that the prices are rediculous. However there is no comparison between those two boats. Did you drive also? Unbelievable to me that an I/O ranks high in anyones books.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 8:38 PM Reply   
ya we where going to buy a tige RZ2 but we where going to use the boat for other things besides boarding, but thats all we ended up using it for.
and i did drive today, and its was crazy how much power that boat had. barely any throttle on the malibu and the rider is up. and speed controler is AMAZING ( we are getting one in a month or so)

im just voicing my oppinion though. like i said. i liked the malibu more. but not so much more it was worth as much money as that boat is
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-14-2009, 8:38 PM Reply   
I dig the Select series, we build all the Sea Ray towers and these are my favorite of the manufacturer.

Cody
XTP
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 8:39 PM Reply   
what cody? and we have the 220 select
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-14-2009, 8:42 PM Reply   
What david? I was just chiming in that I really like the 220 select towers. My company builds all the towers for Sea Ray. I noticed you have yours powder coated, looks good with the boat.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 8:45 PM Reply   
thats not a sea ray tower, its a lightning tower, sea ray recommended them to us. they custom built it to match the window line, so it looked stock, and we are all tall. my dad is 6'6'' and he can walk under the speakers and not hit his head. that was another reason for having one made
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 8:47 PM Reply   
and you can see our wake in my profile picture.. kind of. only one them. and the other wake always ends up a little cleaner. thats about what it looks like though
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-14-2009, 8:48 PM Reply   
Ahhh ok, hard to tell from a distance. We build all the factory towers for Sea Ray and I thought you just powder coated ours.
Old    BMG (wackbag)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-14-2009, 8:49 PM Reply   
Hey David check out a more price point V drive. Like a Malibu Ride, Axis, Moomba ect. You can do way better than that Sea Ray for about the same price.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 8:52 PM Reply   
nope, we where going to do a sea ray, but decided not to when the sea ray guy said not to. he said it would cost WAY more. and the powder coating job was BAD you can read the writing on the pipes through the paint, after we get the gps perfect pass in, we are going to get it re powdercoated thicker so it doesnt chip off where the racks are
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 8:54 PM Reply   
matt, we arnt looking to buy a new boat. we are very happy with ours. im just voicing my oppinion. if i could change anything on our boat, the only thing i would do different is put the bigger motor for this boat in. its a little underpowered. with 9 people in the boat you can get still pull doubles, but it takes it a bit to get you up
Old    VLX Envy (cavlxenvy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       06-14-2009, 9:16 PM Reply   
just ride with me.... you will change.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 9:18 PM Reply   
LMAO
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       06-14-2009, 9:21 PM Reply   
I bet your outdrive is loving all those stop and go's..... That's pretty pricey when it messes up. Hopefully you're not taking off hard with it.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 9:25 PM Reply   
why would that hurt it? and we just roll on the throtle. its pretty smooth and only complains when there is a ton of people in the boat and is pulling doubles
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       06-14-2009, 9:27 PM Reply   
That's really hard on the gears in the lower unit. I've seen so many people lose forward or reverse on i/o's from added power, heavy loads, or abuse. To have someone replace those gears is (someone correct me if I'm wrong) about $1,500.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 9:29 PM Reply   
i would believe it. trust me though. 4 out of 5 times, one person in the water, and 2 sometimes 3 in the boat. really rare we have a lot of people. and we pull the rider up slowly and smoothly anyways
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       06-14-2009, 9:30 PM Reply   
I looked hard at the Sea Ray Select, the Cobalt, and the Regal in 22' models in 2006 and they were all nice boats. I liked the Regal best.
However each of those would have cost me the same as a 21' Supra and all were more than I paid for my 21' Sanger. That's up in Canada so maybe it's different further south but I'm not buying the story that an I/O is cheaper than an inboard.
You can get cheaper I/O boats but for something upper end it was a lot less for me to get the inboard.

(Message edited by rallyart on June 14, 2009)
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 9:34 PM Reply   
we looked at a TON of Inboards before we bought this, hated sanger, and centurion the most, then mastercraft, then malibu,. and really liked the tige. the tige we liked he was asking like 60 for
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       06-14-2009, 9:41 PM Reply   
did I read right that you put almost 50k into an I/O AND you wakeboard? As long as you are out ripping I guess the boat doesn't really matter, but damn...
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-14-2009, 9:44 PM Reply   
haha. true true, it beats the hell our of our old boat (OMG *rolls eyes*) im just always stoked to be out on the water. what ever its behind
Old    Lance Saville (lancesaville)      Join Date: May 2009       06-14-2009, 10:04 PM Reply   
I like the tower, kinda resembles the sanger chubbie towers. I think the only major loss is that you can't surf behind it. I mean, you CAN, it's YOUR foot bro :-) Good lookin boat.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       06-14-2009, 10:18 PM Reply   
Hey David, I don't mind if you hated the Sanger. Every boat is different, which means if you look and test drive you can find what's best for you. I wish more people would try many boats. My Father-in-law still has his 61 Sea Ray with the original 115 Evinrude. That was a screamer then. His new wife thinks a newer boat might be a bit more comfortable.

For me the Sanger was a better boat for less money than what you got. I'm obviously not everyone though, as Sea Ray outsells the Sanger by a lot.
Old    Sean (slax303)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-14-2009, 10:44 PM Reply   
You hated Sanger... You went with a Sea Ray... ???? To each their own I guess
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-15-2009, 4:07 AM Reply   
+1 to gears going out in I/O's after significant wakeboarding use. I've replaced the clutch dogs in my I/O before, and they went out again last year ending my relationship with said boat. New v-drive this week!!!
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 8:25 AM Reply   
"You hated Sanger... You went with a Sea Ray... ???? To each their own I guess."

we didnt like the sanger because of the seating, we found it really un comfortable.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       06-15-2009, 8:37 AM Reply   
60% of the time, it works every time
Old    pete c (saceone)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-15-2009, 8:38 AM Reply   
but can you surf behind a I/O?

I don't care much about wakeboarding to be honest
Old    A-dub (behindtheboat)      Join Date: Aug 2006       06-15-2009, 8:56 AM Reply   
did you notice how the foot longer bu handled compared to the I/O? and how much easier it accelerated and maintained speed?
Old    Clint (ttuclint)      Join Date: Sep 2003       06-15-2009, 9:08 AM Reply   
I doubt he did much driving, he's 17 yrs old.
Old    Chris (rio_sanger)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-15-2009, 9:34 AM Reply   
Pretty sure I've never heard the words "hate" and "Sanger" in the same sentence before.

But hey he's 17 years old, I'm sure the word "love" gets tossed around pretty loosely also...
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-15-2009, 9:37 AM Reply   
^haha.

I've driven searays... I've driven sangers. Its like a Ford E-350 van vs. Mini Cooper.

but hey, vans have their purpose too.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       06-15-2009, 9:45 AM Reply   
The other plus of an inboard is that if you get the right boat (like a 23 LSV) you can ride it through all your years of progression. David, one day you will get to a point where you are getting better and your Sea Ray will simply not be able to provide the wake you want. The Malibu you rode is the choice of the Malibu pro team for a reason, the wake and pull just keep getting better as you add weight and advance your riding.

Some folks put an emphasis on comfortable seats and others place it on a wake that will hold up for all their and their kids progression. I can't even describe the change my riding went through when our family upgraded to an inboard, suddenly it was about riding, not hanging at the lake. When a family makes that change it is a glorious thing.
Old    K.B.C.            06-15-2009, 10:14 AM Reply   
also take into account that you can get an older v-drive and really weight it, then there is no comparison with cost or wake quality. your talking about a stock weighted, newer boat, meaning it's overpriced to the max and even though its a "wake" boat with built in ballast it's still not going to be top notch, wake wise anyway. stock weighted boats are never that impressive.
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-15-2009, 10:23 AM Reply   
Its all about The riding.I didn't realize how serious we took it till about seven thirty sunday morning sitting at the dock waiting for it to stop raining.
Old    Johnny Neves (johnny_jr)      Join Date: Mar 2006       06-15-2009, 10:42 AM Reply   
I've had 2 I/Os and 2 vdrives, would never buy another i/o unless it was a 30 foot cruiser when I retire. Inboards are the most comfortable, best preforming tow boats avalible. There is a reason why people ditch their I/Os once they have experienced an inboard. Most people I have talked too would rather have an older inboard vs. a new(er) I/O. Plus vdrive inboards have more storage space and for the most part more seating capacity then an i/o of the same size. My heartache with the i/os was that we could never get the wake to clean up, as in your profile pic it's not horrible, but has some wash which gets irritating once you ride behind an inboard with a clean wake (not saying all inboards clean wake) with the proper weight distribution you can always clean up the wake of an inboard, something that can not be said for an i/o. At least with my experience.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 2:21 PM Reply   
i didnt like the sanger. its a personal preference.
and i drove 5 sets in the malibu, and i drive my dad when ever he rides behind ours, i got a fair amount of drive time in. and the power in the malibu was great. it had tons of power, and out boat can keep the speed pretty well. but it was great not having to do anything for speed.

AND

"Its all about The riding.I didn't realize how serious we took it till about seven thirty sunday morning sitting at the dock waiting for it to stop raining."

we had a trip about 2 months ago where it poured for the first hour we rode,

and steering i really didnt like how you cant steer in reverse in a v drive. and how you cant steer going fforward unless uner power, that was a pain. ours you can steer in reverese and you can steer while not under power.

and ours gets cleaner with some weight, that pic only had 2 people in the boat
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       06-15-2009, 2:47 PM Reply   
David you can steer a v-drive in reverse it is just different than an I/O and I don't know too many boats that will steer(going forward) unless under power.

I know you are saying that the wake didn't seem to be worth the extra money. However, I agree with Heavy that you are probably not at a level to get the full potential out of an inboard wake(and no neither am I.)
Old    murph (smuurph84)      Join Date: Oct 2008       06-15-2009, 2:54 PM Reply   
hey jonyb I have an I/O so when I have it in gear to pull a rider I need to take off slowly? I want to take care of it as much as possible as I hope to trade it in soon for an inboard! I was always taught to floor it when trying to get someone up on ski's when I was growing up and never new this was wrong. It's not really an issue with wakeboarding because its so easy to get up. but I guess I need to ease into it more?
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 3:14 PM Reply   
i couldnt figure out how to steer it in reverese but none of us on the boat could, even the owner. and I/o's will steer while not under power. ours steers very well while not under power.

and im not at the level where i can take full potential. and i admit that.

and here is a pic of the wake. thats with the rear tanks full, the center, and the wedge almost all the way down


Upload
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-15-2009, 3:22 PM Reply   
boats steer by pushing water in a given direction (outboards/ IO's/jetski) or inboards push the water past a rudder, which turns it....

Unless the prop is in motion, or your boat already has momentum it isn't turning.... or you have paddles.


I think i remember reading in the non-wake board you smoked your fair share of pot.... that helps me believe what you are saying

(Message edited by sidekicknicholas on June 15, 2009)
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 3:29 PM Reply   
i know how a boat turns, but with the boat full of people and the tanks full. we had zero turning.

and what are you talking about?
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 3:33 PM Reply   
and im saying it doesnt turn in idle, at speed it turns with no throttle (like when a rider falls and you kill the power and spin the wheel)
Old    BMG (wackbag)      Join Date: Feb 2009       06-15-2009, 3:35 PM Reply   
Kids- This is your brain on drugs. Any questions?
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-15-2009, 3:46 PM Reply   
You wrote:
"both are equally bad. i smoked weed for quite a while, and i smoked cigarettes for even longer."

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/4387/701723.html?1244622155
This is what I am talking about, maybe you've lost short term memory...

and you just wrote:
"im saying it doesnt turn in idle, at speed it turns with no throttle (like when a rider falls and you kill the power and spin the wheel)"

In one sentence you said it both turns, and doesn't turn... my guess it that it turns fine in idle, most likely better then when you cut power and turn... its just slower so it seems less exciting
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 3:47 PM Reply   
i havnt touched a drug in over 2 years, and i didnt smoke a fair share of pot. i did it a few times,

and why is everyone freaking out over my oppinion? it doesnt effect you.

and like ive said like 4 times now, i would rather have a v drive, but for the money for a new one, its not worth it. used is a different story, the tige we where looking at cost more then what we have into our boat now, and the tige had no speakers in the boat or on the tower,
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 3:51 PM Reply   
nick, that thread got moved, ive never been in non wakeboarding discussion. it used to be in wakeboarding section, thats why i was confused.
and quite a while meant i did it a few times, but over a long period of time

and i know i wrote idle, but i meant when its in neutral, it turns fine in idle, im saying when your in idle pulling away from your rider, and you put the boat back into neutral it has no turning.
we did a dock start near the end of the day, and it was windy then, and it was really hard to get the boat lined up with the rider without pulling them off the dock
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-15-2009, 3:56 PM Reply   
it doesn't affect me at all, but someone who is none-the-wiser reads this, goes and buys a I/O because you say they are better bothers me.

I am just amazed at your claims... I/O's drive like tubs, wakes are washy (generally), and are just as pricey as the average inboard (bu/CC/Mc) are a bit above that.

23 ft SeaRay Select - MSRP - $51,xxx
23 ft. Moomba - MSRP - $46,xxx
24 ft Tige - MSRP - $57,xxx
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 3:59 PM Reply   
im not telling anyone to buy an I/O over a v drive, im really not.

and i have no idea where you got 51 for a 23 foot sea ray, ours was half that
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       06-15-2009, 4:04 PM Reply   
http://www.cumberlandsearay.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?veh=61527&CatDesc=Boats&Mod elYear=2008
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       06-15-2009, 4:06 PM Reply   
Matt..lol

David you sound generally confused and must have the munchies.

While your intentions are good, I feel your review is another example of why people must/need to demo vs. looking to any forum or magazine before purchasing a new/used boat.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 4:09 PM Reply   
nick, ours was used with 50 hours on it. we got it for 27.
that price is ridiculous for that boat, i didnt realize msrp was that high. ive never looked it up.


"David you sound generally confused and must have the munchies. "

havnt smoked in 2 years, already said that
Old    Craig Cox (wakedoctor)      Join Date: Dec 2004       06-15-2009, 5:08 PM Reply   
David you didn't read the rules for this board? You cannot express your opinion unless it agrees with everyone else's. Besides, what if something like Nick stated happened? You would feel terrible, practically filled with guilt, for the rest of your days while the inboard industry crumbled at the masses due to the loss of one more customer!
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 5:18 PM Reply   
LMAO your post made my laugh so hard craig, that just turned this thread around.
it went from people hating on me. to you making me laugh

thanks!
Old    Brock Landers (formfunction)      Join Date: Jun 2008       06-15-2009, 5:35 PM Reply   
I couldn't own a IO just for the simple reason that everytime I see one pictures of tubers pop in my head thus ruining my good mood.
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       06-15-2009, 6:26 PM Reply   
haha, we used to tube, now they just sit in the garage, i know what you mean though. you dont see people tubing behind an x star, ill ive you that one
Old    Cody (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-15-2009, 7:42 PM Reply   
Don't let the haters bother you, everyone has an opinion. Your opinion is just in a small minority.
Old    Taft Leissner (tl7)      Join Date: Feb 2005       06-15-2009, 8:13 PM Reply   
I can't believe everyone is blasting a guy for giving an opinion. And he never said the boat sucked, simply that he was happy with his. He actually said he liked the Malibu, he just doesn't think it justifies the extra cost. Props to him for enjoying what he has. Quit acting like he insulted your girlfriend. Boat snobs = pet peeve. Rant over.
Old    Sparky Jay (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       06-15-2009, 8:33 PM Reply   
You get an opinion, I'll give you that. But to spend 45k on an I/O is a waste IMH opinion. It would go along way if not cover a truly superior wakeboat that would be safer and less expensive to maintain/repair than any I/O.
Old    Chris (rio_sanger)      Join Date: Apr 2007       06-15-2009, 9:08 PM Reply   
I owned I/O's for 20 years before I saw the light.
I only wonder ...why did I wait so long?!

I think everyone should own an I/O before owning an inboard, that way you appreciate even more how great these boats are!

(Message edited by rio_sanger on June 15, 2009)
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-15-2009, 9:13 PM Reply   
If you ever plan on progressing, you'll have to upgrade to an inboard. If you are happy just cruising around than the I/O will be fine.

It's one thing to spend a couple of grand on an I/O and to not see the justification in spending 10's of thousands of dollars more on a V-drive. It's another thing to spend 45,000 grand on an I/O and gripe about the cost of a V-drive. It goes beyond any reason I've ever seen.
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-15-2009, 10:11 PM Reply   
David.

You are stoked on your wake and the boat your family got for the price. That is all that matters.

I think you made a fair assessment of your I/O vs a v-drive. The only thing missing is the Cons of an I/O, which are plenty if you ask any of us inboard guys.

In this thread:
"riding with a small wake (vid)" by nick kamper, he shows that you can ride very well behind a small wake, not that your wake is as small as his.

I will say that a properly weighted v-drive (especially an 23 LSV) will destroy a properly weighted I/O... but for $27k you found a boat/wake you like, then good for you.

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