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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through May 29, 2009

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Old    Dave (wakeboarder12390)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-13-2009, 4:47 PM Reply   
I am planing on buying a new boat but going in on it with a few family members. I thought before I go to the dealer I would ask how much are monthly payments usually for mastercrafts, correct craft, and tiges that are priced around 50grand?
Old    wiz            05-13-2009, 5:07 PM Reply   
it all depends on the rate u qualify for, the length of the loan, & how much money u put down. sorry, but impossible to answer without that info.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-13-2009, 5:44 PM Reply   
No money down without tax and license will be around $600 per month with "A" credit.
Old    Ed (elc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-13-2009, 5:56 PM Reply   
Go into microsoft excel and use the PMT function.

In the rate field the equation should be the interest rate/12
for example 6%/12

In the nper field put the number of payments in months
If you finance for five years you should put the number 60 in this field. 10 years would be 120 etc

pv - is the present value of the boat. If you finance 50k put the number 50000 in this field.

50k at 6%, for 60 months, is about $1k a month and you pay around 10k of interest. The longer the loan the more interest you pay. If you finance the same amount for ten years you will pay $17k of interest at 6%.
Old    Shawn (helinut)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-13-2009, 9:01 PM Reply   
Or just download the home mortgage template for excel. Works perfect and tells you how bad you're getting raped in interest every year.
Old    Michael Bouchard (mbouchard)      Join Date: May 2006       05-14-2009, 6:10 AM Reply   
Here's one that shows you what your paying the bank every year...

http://74.220.207.195/~southfa0/Customers/Payment_Calculator.html
Old    Sam (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       05-14-2009, 8:56 AM Reply   
your seriously going to go purchase a $50k+ luxury item and you can't fiugre how to calculate your monthly payaments?

Prime example of why we are all in this huge credit mess today!
Old    Jarrod Perkins (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-14-2009, 9:46 AM Reply   
So because he doesn't know how to calculate a loan automatically means that he doesn't have the money to make his payments? Does he need to know every little detail about the inner workings of a marine engine, the steps and tools it takes to fix gel coat cracks, or will it be too much to ask for anyone to help out with the upcoming questions that he might have along the way. Or have you already put him the "that guy and that boat" category as well? What is this forum for anyways?
Old    Paul (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       05-14-2009, 10:02 AM Reply   
50K @ 7.5%(plug #, if you can get it less, the payment will be less) for;

For 72 months= 864
for 120months= 593
for 180months= 463
Old    Ed (elc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       05-14-2009, 10:07 AM Reply   
I thought the same thing Sam when I saw the thread.

Then I saw he is 18. Rather then bashing on him I thought educating him on what actually went in to the payment would be a better route.
Old    Kevin Hoye (wakebrdr38)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-14-2009, 10:09 AM Reply   
lmao, these threads crack me up! 180 months, can you say "upside down"?
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-14-2009, 10:10 AM Reply   
Sam's a garbage man, he doesn't know any better...

Dave, finance for as short as you can afford. (See above "upside down".)

(Message edited by denverd1 on May 14, 2009)
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-14-2009, 10:55 AM Reply   
Actually this economy has made me realize the value of cash on hand. It is actually a great time to finance long term, interest rates are low, market returns are starting to climb. If you finance something for 5 years then yes it is paid off but that is with a modest $750 payment a month. Or you can finance for 15 years with a monthly payment of $330 a month and bank the extra $420 a month. After 5 years you owe 30K on the boat "possible upside down" but you have 25 K in the bank for an emergency. If you need cash at any point during that time you have and if you default on your loan all they do is take your boat but you can still put food on the table. I am just saying these days the idea that long term loans are bad is gone, for the right person they are great.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-14-2009, 10:58 AM Reply   
^^^^Ahhh the voice of reason. Well put Erik.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       05-14-2009, 11:01 AM Reply   
This one is done for an auto loan but you can use it. It is nice because you can show the amortization schedule and see how much interest you are paying. You can also add money onto the minimum and see how much faster you will pay off the loan.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/auto/auto-loan-calculator.aspx
Old    Aaron (aarond0083)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-14-2009, 11:23 AM Reply   
+1 Erik. I financed my new 210 for 12 years and will never be upside down. With rates this low, take advantage of it while you can.
Old    Bill Knudson (drknute3)      Join Date: Sep 2008       05-14-2009, 11:28 AM Reply   
Erik, great post! The only problem is people pick a $330 a month payment over 15 years cuz they cant afford the $750 payment. Thus not being able to bank the extra $429 a month for emergencies. Unless you put a big chunk down at purchase, it will take a long time to get level on any loan over 7 years.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-14-2009, 11:34 AM Reply   
I guess most of us are assuming someone that buys a boat can afford it. I guess common sense doesn't exist anymore though.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-14-2009, 11:40 AM Reply   
Erik, Nub, Aaron: Are you serious???? You're all telling me that you're stacking up $400 and change every month in a bank account somewhere???

Well, thats terrific guys. Nationally, we have had a NEGATIVE savings rate for over 5 years. That means we not only spend every dime we earn each month, but we charge to credit whatever we couldn't afford. Guys more power to ya for beating the national average by so much!

Here's another scenario that is more likely: YOu spend $50K on a boat, finance it for 15 years "cuz rates are low". Two years from now, your situation changes and for whatever reason, you now want to sell the boat. You're $50k boat is likely worth $30K, pry less in this market. But you still owe the bank $10K after you hock the boat.... I'm sorry guys, but this is funny and sad all at the same time. I guess you're all maxing out your 401ks and IRA too.... ROck on guys, maybe new boat sales can pull out of this recession.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-14-2009, 11:43 AM Reply   
THe value of Cash on hand: means budgeting $800 per month on a boat and putting the balance you dont' spend in savings!!!

Don't get me wrong. If you can afford it, go for it. I'm all about new toys.

I just see some of the logic here.

(Message edited by denverd1 on May 14, 2009)
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-14-2009, 11:44 AM Reply   
Nacho not all of us are in that situation so don't group me into your stereotype.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-14-2009, 11:45 AM Reply   
see the edit bu'.

And it's a national average, very indicative of our society. Not a stereotype.
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-14-2009, 11:50 AM Reply   
Nacho it is sadly true that there are a ton of financial idiots out there that got us into this mess. My MO is I don't finance anything I can't pay cash for ((house excluded) and always put a substantial down payment.

(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on May 14, 2009)
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-14-2009, 11:56 AM Reply   
Actually, more then $400 Nacho, getting a safe 3% return on my cash annually as well. Yes we have had a negative savings rate for five years, but prior to that we had an increasing or steady rate, during normal periods. In a normal statistical thought process that makes the prior 5 years the outlier. And if my situation suffers that bad in two years where the cash I have saved on my boat payment (i.e. $10,000+) can't get me by then worst case I loose the boat. It actually use to be the norm in our country to save I am just doing what several generations before me did, nothing new.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-14-2009, 12:00 PM Reply   
No the value of cash is budgeting a comfortable amount on expenses well still maxing out 401K and IRA, as well as saving 5% of your annual income. If you can do that and you have excess income and could fit a boat in there as well, on a 15year loan go for it.
Old    Ken Land (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-14-2009, 12:28 PM Reply   
I find that the average boat owner's equity can stay about even if purchasing a new boat, and financing at no more than 120 months. The average boat owner sells or trades out every 5 years.

We hear this talk about the inflation that is rolling down hill at us because of gov spending: if the economy recovers, people are spending, inflation is crazy, does that mean our used boats are worth more than they are today?

Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com
Old    shooter_08            05-14-2009, 2:13 PM Reply   
Ken speaks of the inflation issue, Erik's $400 at a "safe" 3% interest is actually losing value over time with an inflation rate over 3%(inflation expectations is much high than 3%). My 401K has consistently lost money over the last year due to the market crash. No wonder no one wants to save money, itís not worth saving. Bottom line is to enjoy a boat you can afford!
Old    murph (smuurph84)      Join Date: Oct 2008       05-14-2009, 2:31 PM Reply   
what are interest rates on 15 yr loans right now? if you have great credit?
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-14-2009, 2:34 PM Reply   
Ha... I totally agree on that point Shooter, I just chose the lesser of two evils, lose to inflation or lose to the market
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-14-2009, 3:59 PM Reply   
"My MO is I don't finance anything I can't pay cash for ((house excluded) and always put a substantial down payment."

Mine too. I would bet that herein lies the problem for most folks...

Erik, if you've been saving like the generations before us, then plop down a nice chunk of it and reduce your monthly payments or finance term accordingly.
Old    shooter_08            05-14-2009, 5:32 PM Reply   
Good credit =8.5% with up to 15 year term. Nu Bu mentioned "no money down", but I think those days are gone. Expect to put 20% down (maybe a little less if youíre lucky or paying higher interest). I had no luck with my credit union (probably too small to understand boat loan), but many people on WW recommend them.
Old    Ken Land (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-14-2009, 6:09 PM Reply   
We just used USAA Federal Savings (not everyone qualifies, but if you got an immediate family member that qualifies, you can get in), and received a 10 year loan at 6.99% w/ 10 percent down (they would have also done 15 yrs at the same rate). USAA will 100% finance used boats as long as the max loan is 90% or less of NADA.

Here is a pic of our 2010 (yes 2010) MB F21 Tomcat that was finished today.

Upload


Ken Land
Bullet Lines
www.bulletlines.com
Old    Nu Bu (05mobiuslsv)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-14-2009, 9:22 PM Reply   
Shooter I wasn't recommending no money down, no bank will give a loan with no money down anymore.

I just got 6.74% on my boat from a credit union.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-15-2009, 7:51 AM Reply   
Nacho I still don't see your point, why would I ever lock up a large amount of my cash when it is so cheap to lock up someone elseís? Finance 101, make your money work for you.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-15-2009, 9:23 AM Reply   
obviously... i have the title to my boat. I don't expect you to see my point. You're leveraging a rapidly depreciating asset. make sense?

Enjoy your summer.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-15-2009, 9:38 AM Reply   
Well if that is your point then you wouldn't finance your house right now either right? That is a more rapidly depreciating asset, so you must own it out right or you rent.

The title to your boat doesn't put food on the table
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-15-2009, 9:45 AM Reply   
I'm sorry, did you just say that a house depreciates faster than a boat????

Finance 101, huh?

I keep trying to end this, but you keep dragging me back into it with crap like that. Man, do what you want. But, you obviously dont' understand what you're talking about.
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-15-2009, 10:28 AM Reply   
If you bought anytime between 2004-2007 yes in many parts of the country your house depreciated faster then your boat do the math.
600K house now worth 300K = Depreciation 50%
90K boat now worth 60K = Depreciation 33%
seems like simple math...let me know if you need help.
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-15-2009, 10:40 AM Reply   
So you're upside down on it too?? It's getting ugly bro!!

Should've taken a HELOC out in 2004 and bought then!!
Old    Erik (kinger)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-15-2009, 10:48 AM Reply   
Wow that is one of the worst ideas ever take a HELOC out on your house to buy a boat??? So secure your boat loan w/your house...you must be a financial advisor.

Actually just bought last year so I got a great deal, 2 million dollar house for half price.
Old    Adam (blindmnkee3)      Join Date: Aug 2001       05-15-2009, 2:54 PM Reply   
Another WW Pee-pee comparison thread, woohoo, lovely guys....

Now is a great time to buy if you can afford it. That's what it all comes down to right, what you are comfortable with. What works for one person isn't the best for someone else.

We just traded our old boat in for a 2005 Bu 23 LSV, couldn't be happier. 4.6% for 7 years was great for us. We should be able to have it paid off in 4. Again, do what you are comfortable with. If wakeboarding means enough to you to make sacrifices to have a nicer boat, go for it. Just be safe and be smart
Old    Nacho (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-15-2009, 3:54 PM Reply   
Great deal adam that's what I'm talking about!!

Its abuyers market right now!
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       05-15-2009, 5:00 PM Reply   
hope the numbers are right many variables possible , but basic idea, call me crazy, but it works for us. It really helps if you already have tons of equity in your house...not for recnt buyers.

original boat cost 45000 dollars
payment 84 dollars/month interest only (prime 2.25% in canada on dreaded credit line)
sell after 5 years for 30000 dollars
loss 15000 dollars
carries for 28 dollars interest on credit line for another 15 years

after 20 years(or later the better when selling house, pay off debt) 10500 payment(interest) for boat 15000(still owing) for loan (20 years later salary up double or more, inflation has eroded loan to say 7500 real value, house has gone up a bunch)
total 18000 real dollars lost, no boat





Pay off in 5 years 7% interest 891$ a month

53500 total payout , 45000 plus 8500 interest
sell boat for 30000 5 years later. total loss 23500 dollars. no boat

big difference in cash flow 891 versus 84, quality of life? 20-30 years down the road does it make a difference?
Old    michael z (absoluteboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       05-15-2009, 5:49 PM Reply   
on the above example in the first scenario you pay off the rest of the loan.

in the second you own 30000 dollars free and clear.....to buy a new toy !

if I want to keep the the 30000 and buy a new toy I have to keep paying the interest on the original 45000 loan.....84$..........while in scenario 2 it is now 0.


in any event my payments are low over the long run.....with good cash flow monthly rather than having to sacrifice making huge payments over a short time. In the end I lose a little more.....but its really insignificant after 20-30 years of being a home owner.

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