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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through May 29, 2009

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Old    TKO (airborne)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-03-2009, 11:37 AM Reply   
It is appearant the Epic isn't selling boats by their full page ad in this months wakeboarding mag offering a $10K check for a referral for a sale. If I was a dealer I would be done. And the 150k hybrid. At surf expo they said would be around $70K. Now over double?? And for that you get a boat that doesn't have a clean wake unless you are going 25mph or more. Unbelievable!!
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       05-03-2009, 12:25 PM Reply   
What is your point?
Old    TKO (airborne)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-03-2009, 12:42 PM Reply   
Why have dealers when you arr selling direct? That is a Joke!!
Old    Erik Jernberg (juniorhawk)      Join Date: Jul 2004       05-03-2009, 1:01 PM Reply   
Oh. Well you made about 4 statements in the original screed there.
Old    gary cody (pavement_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2009       05-03-2009, 1:03 PM Reply   
Alot more dealers will soon be gone. the consumers are helping to make sure of that. Cheap boats are flying out the door all over this country. Nobody's buying local everyone is searching for that deal of a lifetime and I guarantee it's gonna come from some dealer far enough away that they won't ever have to deal with any warranty issues on that boat they sold. I think they call it dumping your problems in someone else's territory. Then the poor consumers wonders why he's getting poor service on warranty items at his or her local dealer that's struggling to survive.
Old    Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam)      Join Date: Jun 2008       05-03-2009, 1:14 PM Reply   
Makes you wonder how much profit margin exits...
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-03-2009, 1:37 PM Reply   
Retail is roughly 30% over wholesale. The common boat show "deal" was 10% to 15% off retail. Today, a desperate dealer would probably go near wholesale to sell a 2008.

Its a good time to buy new. The used market is a lot less motivated.
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       05-03-2009, 1:56 PM Reply   
Damn people love to hate on EPIC. I wonder why it always attracts such negative comments. Seems like a nice core boat from a company that is trying to innovate. As far as the referral I think one of the boat companies was offering some crazy third party rebate program. How is this any worse than that?

(Message edited by bjeremi on May 03, 2009)
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-03-2009, 2:16 PM Reply   
Too funny. Nobody bitched with Malibu started doing it. Calabria has done it for years. No doubt that others will do it too.
Old    KEVIN (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       05-03-2009, 2:16 PM Reply   
30% over wholesale thats not real world numbers there Im sorry.Your boat show deal numbers are a little more real world in a good economy but it todays world and in this economy it aint pretty.
Buying out of your area really taxes the dealer and the dealer should be given every chance to get you a boat.If you dont support your local dealer how can you expect them to be there for you.
Old    Team CBK....Nate (cbk)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-03-2009, 2:48 PM Reply   
MC does it too!
Old    Brit Rider (brit_rider)      Join Date: May 2004       05-03-2009, 3:28 PM Reply   
CBK - Great point. Surely this isn't too different to MC offering htier 25k Rebate?

Just another way of offering a financial incentive....

I bet the $10k cheque isn't as easy to come by as the first poster makes it sound... Or anyone buying one would just get a friend to refer them etc etc.
Old    TKO (airborne)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-03-2009, 3:43 PM Reply   
the point isn't the check and I am sure the MC $25K deal is actually $25K off of FULL MSRP as there are no details out there, but it does say check with your dealer, whereas this deal is to buy FACTORY DIRECT, which no other reputable company does. It would be like buying a Ford direct and bypassing your dealer, it isn't going to happen as that would be wrong. I just lost all respect for the EPIC line with this as there are too many dealers who are struggling and working their butts off to stay afloat and have a mfr doing this. My MC dealer does way too much for me to go around him, plus I respect him too much.

Here is their ad detail:

EPIC Wakeboats, manufacturer of the World's First Electric Hybrid Sport Boat, just announced the industry's largest referral incentive program: "The Epicnomic Stimulus Program."

All current and future EPIC 23V owners as well as dealers are eligible to participate in the
program. Simply tell anyone about your EPIC 23V and if they purchase one from the factory,
EPIC Wakeboats will send you a check in the amount of $10,000.

Vice President of Sales for EPIC Wakeboats, Gary Smith, says, "The best part of this program is that
everyone can do it! If dealers don't have any flooring or showroom space, this is the ideal
program for them. All they have to do is buy one boat from EPIC and make $10,000 for every
boat they sell off it!"

In an effort to help jump start the program, EPIC Wakeboats has reduced the price on all 23V
2009 models. Once a boat is purchased, the new owner is then eligible to receive $10,000 for
every customer they refer. There's no referral limit and no constraints on what you can do with
the money. All information and registration forms can be found at epicboats.com.

"At EPIC our mission has always been to improve the lives of those involved in our sport," says Eric Williford, EPIC Wakeboats Director of Marketing. "Our goal is to offer immediate help to dealers, consumers, athletes, and families. There's no red tape, no fine print, and no three year wait. Refer a friend and if they purchase an EPIC 23V, you get $10,000. It's that quick and easy."

http://www.wakeboardingmag.com/article/News/EPIC-Wakeboats-Wants-To-Give-You-10000
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       05-03-2009, 4:14 PM Reply   
Dude quit hating. "All respect" seriously? Epic is just trying to get some boats moving. No offense but it sounds like you talked to your beloved dealership that you love and respect so much and are just regurgitating what he complained about to you.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-03-2009, 4:30 PM Reply   
^ agreed.

Its not like they're giving 10k to anyone who can convince someone to buy one.... only people who have bought one, your first post was tricky.

I don't blame them for trying to make their current owners to rep the product a little more. Its like paying for advertising.
Old    Luke B (pureblue)      Join Date: Jun 2002       05-03-2009, 4:34 PM Reply   
And there are a ton of people that don't live near an epic dealer. So if someone wants an epic but lives 800 miles from the nearest dealer, why not just take the extra 10k and buy it direct.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-03-2009, 4:41 PM Reply   
I would be pissed if I were a dealer. They sell these boats to you and then basically try and cut you out if they can. It doesn't make sense they must be offering something to the dealer or direct the customer to the dealer or something.
Old    Nick in the TC (nick_in_ssp)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-03-2009, 4:41 PM Reply   
To me it doesn't sound like they are bypassing the dealer. It says if they buy it from the factory, which I take means choosing color, options, etc. You will be paying close to MSRP for this boat. It is not one of the boats on the showroom floor that you get a hell of a deal on. Just how I am reading it. It's like if you order a pickup you still go to the dealer and pic your options to get exactly what you want, that is going to be one spendy truck compared to something similar in the lot.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-03-2009, 4:50 PM Reply   
Maybe its set up so they build boats as they're ordered rather than building a bunch of inventory and sitting on it. That would make sense in this economy so long as the orders still go through a dealer.
Old    TKO (airborne)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-03-2009, 5:02 PM Reply   
I guess the details aren't so clear and I don't hate the boat, just think they have some kinks to work out, they are a young company and now it appears to me they are bypassing the dealer. It should state, see your dealer for details or something along those lines and not if they purchase from the factory. Desperate times bring desperate measures but if someone wants to be in this business for the long haul, a stong dealer network it a must. LF, Hyperlite, CWB and companies like that couldn't survive w/o dealers nor anyone else. Guess I should delete this post as i wasn't trying to open a can a worms. I made a comment re the hybrid as I think $150K is INSANE when their reps at surf expo stated it looked like it was going to be priced about the same as the 23V. Just a big diff there too. There is a work I don't see here..."INTEGRITY"...which is an important term. It should be black and white and not a bunch of grey like in this ad.
Old    TKO (airborne)      Join Date: Apr 2009       05-03-2009, 5:10 PM Reply   
I guess my thinking is, why not put a $10k rebate off your best price from your dealer. That would help your dealer move inventory and buy another boat and he wouldn't feel hosed.

(Message edited by airborne on May 03, 2009)
Old    J B (bjeremi)      Join Date: Mar 2006       05-03-2009, 5:40 PM Reply   
Come on man you are not helping your case at all. Still trying to bash to with the lame integrity comment. "Gray"? that MC rebateis the very def. of gray.
Old    Team CBK....Nate (cbk)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-03-2009, 6:36 PM Reply   
I should have been more clear...


MC sells direct too.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-03-2009, 6:53 PM Reply   
And so does Malibu... http://www.malibuboats.com/news/show/27

They are all trying to move product How is this any different?
Old    Nick Yochman (lakemiltonwake08)      Join Date: Oct 2008       05-03-2009, 8:08 PM Reply   
Right now it's costing them more to produce the hybrid. One year from now do you think the cost is still going to be $150k? I'm sure they are just trying to protect themselves on it until they get things figured out.
Old    Jonny (wakeboardlasvegas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-03-2009, 8:40 PM Reply   
Goes to show you how much overpriced these boats have been.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-03-2009, 9:18 PM Reply   
I don't get how this is a huge problem. If the guy needs warranty service, he'll have to find a place to do the work for the Epic, MC, Malibu or Calabria, Indmar, PCM's service agreement prices. Everyone gets paid, guy gets his boat done, everyone's happy.

Granted the dealer doesn't make anything on the front end, but hey, it's a tough market out there.
Old    Greg McNeill (greg2)      Join Date: May 2002       05-03-2009, 9:24 PM Reply   
"All current and future EPIC 23V owners as well as dealers are eligible to participate"

Looks like dealers get the same $10K...}
Old    Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-03-2009, 10:37 PM Reply   
Has anyone considered that each dealer has a territory. When most dealerships are set up there is an agreement that they have the rights to buy and sell "x" boats within this region. The company agrees to not sell to any other dealer in that market. What if epic has an agreement with its dealers that if someone in the dealer's market buys an Epic they get a piece of the pie. My point is we do not know what the deal is between Epic and its dealers. I would think any company would be doing all that they can to keep their dealers afloat right now. I would have to believe that Epic and its dealers are both onboard with this.
Old    lowend (lowend)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-03-2009, 11:52 PM Reply   
Greg2.
Thats exactly right.
Dealers do get the 10k.
I think this actually works better for the dealer as now he does not need to keep massive inventory.
Old    Luke B (pureblue)      Join Date: Jun 2002       05-04-2009, 1:15 AM Reply   
Good point lowend. All the dealer has to do is get one boat. Then every person they put in an epic gets them 10k with no inventory or risk of getting stuck with a bunch of boats that they end up discounting and making hardly any profit margin. Seems like a good deal for the dealer.
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-04-2009, 7:53 AM Reply   
The 10k deal is a great idea for dealers and customers. It sure beats all the hoops you have to jump through for the 25K deal that MasterCraft offers. It also gives you an idea of how much more markup is into a MC.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-04-2009, 7:59 AM Reply   
Malibu is only selling boats they didn't unload to a dealer though that are left over from the previous model year.
Old    Erik (etakk7)      Join Date: Apr 2006       05-04-2009, 8:25 AM Reply   
Tuneman - the MC deal is a third party called Cash Rewards that is pretty shady. So, MC is not paying out directly. They probably pay a small percentage of the "potential" payout which is 2-3 years down the line. That being said yes they probably do have quite a markup.
Old    Bill K (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-04-2009, 8:46 AM Reply   
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) :Has anyone considered that each dealer has a territory. When most dealerships are set up there is an agreement that they have the rights to buy and sell "x" boats within this region. The company agrees to not sell to any other dealer in that market. What if epic has an agreement with its dealers that if someone in the dealer's market buys an Epic they get a piece of the pie. My point is we do not know what the deal is between Epic and its dealers. I would think any company would be doing all that they can to keep their dealers afloat right now. I would have to believe that Epic and its dealers are both onboard with this.

True. But what if the local dealer is not able to produce the boat & features that a customer wants? Or what if a dealer has your area, but their hours away? Or what if they just suck?

Is the customer locked into only buying from that dealer?
Old     (malibudude)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-04-2009, 9:04 AM Reply   
Kevin,

The Malibu factory promotion is just that. Malibu will contact your local dealer and make arrangements for the sale to the dealer. This isn't all that much different than just going to your dealer and picking out a boat they previously purchased from Malibu. These boats aren't sold directly to the consumer from the factory. You local dealer does get something out of the deal.
Old    KG - WakeboardNJ.com (wakescene)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-04-2009, 10:40 AM Reply   
Factory direct may get you a lower price, but who is going to end up doing your maintenance? The factory???...I think not! Dealer wins either way!

On a side note, a rebate is just a way of saying "we could have sold it to you for less, but didn't"! (ppl are going to argue this statement with me, but I have yet to hear a compelling argument against it)
Old    Dave (davomaddo)      Join Date: Feb 2003       05-04-2009, 1:15 PM Reply   
With Epic, it looks like they only have dealers in 5 states. For the other 45 states, they don't have to worry about bypassing a dealer.

This is a lot different than a boat MFG who has an extensive dealer network selling direct.

Really, what dealers are they going to make mad?

If I were Epic and I wanted to do this, I would work out a deal on the back end to take care of the few dealers I have. IE - if someone who lives next to a dealer bought direct - I would give some perk to the dealer to keep that dealer happy.

With the tiny dealer network they have, it looks like 90% of the people don't have an option of purchasing from a "local" dealer.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-04-2009, 3:06 PM Reply   
KG, rebates are to motivate a buyer and can be taken in the form of cash rather than applied to the price if the buyer chooses. If the seller just sold it for less the buyer wouldn't have that choice.
Old    Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-05-2009, 12:00 AM Reply   
Bill K,
I would say it depends. If the dealer had the rights to an area and you did not want to deal with the and decided to buy factory direct the dealer would get a kickback from the factory. Dealers spend a lot of their own money promoting a product. You may not want to deal with that dealer, but the factory would still give them a cut. In their minds it may have been the demo day the dealer put on, that made you decide on their product. If you wanted to buy from another dealer then the dealer you didn't want to do business with would get nothing. I would be careful with that decision, because some companies make it mandatory that any warranty work must be done done by a factory authorized dealer.

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