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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through March 18, 2009

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Old    pete c (saceone)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-07-2009, 11:22 AM Reply   
you're a pro $h1et d1i$turber man, that sounds like a dream job for DanDulong. Hook him up!

from montreal with love <3
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-07-2009, 11:26 AM Reply   
Why would I reveal my source and myself? If i am wrong either way it doesn't matter whether you know me or you don't. Obviously you want to know who i am to figure out whether I am credible or not. I can totally understand that. Unless you can figure it out and then figure out my source it doesn't matter. I am irrelevant, the source is the big thing. I am simply trying to create conversation, not sling mud about a company that I bought a $91,000 boat from, and who I want to see succeed. I am as invested in MC doing well as the next MC owner.

You talked to Dorton, you got the low down from him, I don't trust CEO's. We are at a stand still. This is a disagreement, nothing more.

Let's all go back to being shiny happy people.

Old    Jonathan Bay (john211)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-07-2009, 11:28 AM Reply   
"If you wanted to figure out who I am I'm sure you could." - AMO

... hmm ... is that a plea to be outed?

"Someone who is up in FL should start putting the feelers out to Blake Dalbech at Forest Lake motor sports, Mark at Son watersports, Andy at Midwest MC,..." - AMO


"Corey [at Midwest MC], it will be on the market September 1st. If he wants to look at it before that, I'll arrange it. I'll give you my contact info when I come pick up my boat from storage in May, or you can get my number from Dan the man Laughlin. Unfortunately, he won't be able to see the house until May. Hope that is ok. I'll sell it with the furniture if he wants it. The dock and the lifts are included as well." AMO

http://www.waterskis.com/Meet-the-Staff-of-Midwest-MasterCraft-Waterskis-com-s/202.htm
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-07-2009, 11:38 AM Reply   
There you go JB! Good job.
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-07-2009, 11:45 AM Reply   
No, no plea. But everyone is so intrigued. I don't care if you guys find out. I'm irrelevant, I told you. It's my source I won't give up. It's like saying to a reporter, "off the record", but everything on this site is obviously on the record. My source is a high up at a wake company and I can't have his reputation put on the line, if this is not true. I could care less about me. I am just a humble wake consumer.
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-07-2009, 11:46 AM Reply   
I feel like I might be at GITMO during the Bush years. When does the water boarding torture start?
Old    GettingOlder (magellan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-07-2009, 12:02 PM Reply   
When you are a part of flying a plane into a building and killing innocent Americans.

Water boarding is a walk in the park to what they should have received.

OK, back to the world coming to an end!
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-07-2009, 12:04 PM Reply   
^^^^^Totally agree.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-07-2009, 1:22 PM Reply   
How bout a hint- what professional sport do you play? By the way I consider myself a professional amateur wakeshuffler with some sick maneuvers.
Old    Jonathan Bay (john211)      Join Date: Aug 2008       03-07-2009, 1:34 PM Reply   
yea, AMO, you were the fuel for the fire on this thread and it is definitely not the same without you. letís count the clues, AZ now, MN in may but selling home in Sept, pricey things all which are claimed to be paid for, but up for sale, 34. Would it make sense, spring ball, traded Twin, career winding down?
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-07-2009, 2:17 PM Reply   
Man you're good JB, I like you.

Gangstar, what is wakeshuffling?

Seriously fellas, I didn't mean for all of this to get out of hand like this. I didn't think David would even take me seriously. I just got back into the wake game after a 14 year break because of a professional sports career that is still ongoing. My last board before '07 was a Skurfer Rage. Ahhhhh, the good ole days riding in the dirty delta. Like I said before guys, I am irrelevant to the wake community. I'm just concerned with MC because I own one. I admit I'm a little upset with the way they have run things in Vonore over the last year or two. If anyone has any other info, other than what Mr. Dorton said to David, or what I have heard about restructuring I am all ears.

On another note, I am very blessed to be in the position that I am in and that does come with some perks, just as I am sure that many people on this site know a lot more people in the wake community than I do and get even more perks. I've had the opportunity to meet some people high up at certain wake companies, and I am very thankful to those people for being so good to me.

On an even cooler note, I just felt my first born kick in my wife's stomach. The coolest thing of all time.
Old    Karl De Looff (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-07-2009, 4:09 PM Reply   
Keep in mind that debt and an organization can be restructured without bankruptcy. Any company with both debt and a structure that was based on a greater amount of sales than projected in the near and intermediate future would be foolish not to attempt to restructure both.

So, the "rumor" of restructuring is likely true. However, the "rumor" of bankruptcy is likely false. Given how well Penske typically runs his businesses, he will weather a downturn unless it lasts a long time. Given the pattern of former recessions, the company with the best product at the time of recovery reaps the benefit of pent-up demand. The leaders of MasterCraft know this and will position the company to take advantage of the recovery.

I do not have any special knowledge or sources although I have owned two MC boats.
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-07-2009, 8:53 PM Reply   
AMO no hard feelings, hope spring is going well for you. It's just so many people come on hear and claim sources and spread rumors behind anonymity while most of the users of this site actually have identities and (not coincidentally) some valuable insight.

The good news is we'll know by this summer- if MC files for protection, you weren't a chump. If they don't...
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-07-2009, 10:00 PM Reply   
Karl, you sound like you definitely know more than I do. I was told restructuring (possible Chap 11), not full on Bankruptcy.

I don't know about you Karl, but I'm wondering when this stimulus plan is going to get credit flowing again into the dealers. They are the ones that are really getting hammered right now.

Gangstar, no hard feelings taken at all, if MC doesn't file my source was wrong and they were able to restructure without claiming Chap 11. It's happened before (me being wrong) and it will happen again, I'm sure of it.

You still didn't tell me what wake shuffling is
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-08-2009, 7:01 AM Reply   
AMO, i too am on my second MC. The MC dealer in NJ screwed me. she was sooo bad, MC pulled out of her dealership in 2006. i bought a 2005 x-2 from her (which was the x-star and now is the x-1, which was a hint about how mc does things).she never returned phone calls and never registered or titled my boat, and she had all my paperwork while she was the MC dealer. that fall MC had an ad campaign stating, get the x-2 for $39K. 10 months earlier i paid $53k for a fully loaded w mcx. so now MC screwed me. I bought a used 04 x-star from a guy who worked for the dealer in May 2006. i was told by the dealer, we can help you sell your x-2 no problem. well i ended up w 2 boat payments for 12 months. couldnt sell it because everyone said i can get a new one for $39k, which they couldnt. when i finally did sell the x-2 for much less than i thought i would when i bought it, she sent me the certificate of origin, filled out! if it was blank, i could have passed it on to the new owner no problem. i called mc, they said since she was no longer a mc dealer, i had to work it out w her! they couldnt produce another one. i didnt want to title the boat cuz i would have to pay taxes on a boat i just sold. well , the guy who bought my boat couldnt title it w/o getting a title from me so i had to eat it, again. ok, now that is out, i do love the MC boats, i do not like the MC upper MGMT. the problem w saying MC is going out of business or chapter 11 is that it can cause people not to buy a MC. that doesnt effect the upper MGMT, they will still make their big salaries, it does cause the guys who build the boats to get laid off. Ballys total fitness has been doing financial restructuring for over 10 years. Trump does it all the time. Many companies do as Karl said very well, i might add. its part of every day business for many companies. so saying "i cant see how they can avoid Chapter 11" isnt right. what do you personally know about their financials? you say you dont believe Dorton but you believe your source who you wont name. why is your source anymore trust worthy than Dorton? yes we can have great conversations on this site, but that is about rope length, weighing an x-star, best wakeboard etc, not about the financial stability of a company unless you show us all their financials...otherwise that is pure speculation on FACTS you and the rest of us dont have.
Old    AMO (amo)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-08-2009, 7:31 AM Reply   
Michael, you are totally right. This thread is dead in my eyes. Like I said before, who am I? I am a nobody in the wake community, call me a chump, tell me I can't say certain things or speculate on certain things. No big deal.

People aren't buying boats because of what I am saying. That is ridiculous. People aren't buying boats because they are overpriced for this market and there is no credit flowing to the consumer for houses let alone "toys". No credit to some dealers for that matter.

Thread Dead. I'm out...........until Gangstar tells me what wakeshuffling is.
Old    WakeMikey (wakemikey)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-08-2009, 7:38 AM Reply   
Boats are just like houses. Everyone wants a McMasion instead of a boat they can afford. People are finally realizing they are extended far beyond their means.
Old    michaelspsp (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-08-2009, 7:42 AM Reply   
people with money continue to buy. where i live a see a lot of new cars on the road. GM? Ford? Dodge? NOPE. BMW and mercedes. if someone started a rumor saying Mercedes was going chapter 11, more BMWs would be bought.... enough said.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       03-08-2009, 7:44 AM Reply   
I do believe this is some factual information:

The HSBC Investor High Yield Fixed Income Fund portfolio holds some of the MCBC Holdings, Inc junk bonds. MCBC Holdings, Inc is the parent company of Mastercraft Boats, LLC. The bonds held in this fund are paying 9.09%, mature 10/15/2014, and are callable on 10/15/09 at 103. HSBC indicates the bonds have a variable rate and are valued at 80% of face.

HTML of HSBC Investor High Yield Fixed Income Portfolio, July 2008:

http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=mcbc+holdings+inc&xa=yehdPN2.m89dsZ0QF5enHg--%2C1236607589&fr=yfp-t-501&u=investorfunds.us.hsbc.com/Files/FD.ashx%3Fguid%3De73750c4-c79b-4e75-b71e-a03383cfbd41&w=mcbc+holdings+holding+inc&d=B9vr352 uSWKT&icp=1&.intl=us

Form the aforementioned report:

MCBC Holdings, Inc. 9.09%, 10/15/14, Callable 10/15/09 @ 103.00 (a)(b) 25,000 20,000

Overview of the original issuance of the bonds:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=an7KOp9UPWAQ

The overview of the issuance. This was from the period when Mastercraft was owned by US Equity Partners, the LBO firm run by Bruse Wassrstein, that sold MC to Charlesbank and Penske:

MASTERCRAFT BOAT CO., the maker of Saltwater and Maristar brand watercrafts owned by Bruce Wasserstein, plans to sell $105 million of floating-rate notes due in 2014. The company is marketing the notes to pay interest of 625 to 650 basis points more than London interbank offered rate. The debt will include a so-called poison put that would allow investors to sell the bonds back at 101 cents on the dollar if there is a change of control at the Vonore, Tennessee-based company. MCBC Holdings Inc. is issuing the debt. Jefferies & Co. is managing the offering. The deal is expected to price today.

I would think the call provision is what the rumor is all about.
Old    shane (auto)      Join Date: Aug 2002       03-11-2009, 7:43 AM Reply   
If it comes down to believing the "press" a CEO of a major company is putting out or someone who comes across as knowledgeable and intelligent, I am going to go with AMO. You see it everyday on CNBC, the CEO comes on, yes everything is going fine, next week up. CEO is just another figurehead relaying what the equity investors PR team sanitized for him to say.
Old    Luke McCombs (wakemanlm)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-13-2009, 9:01 AM Reply   
I hate to say this but I know for a fact that mastercraft and malibu are in deep trouble. Its no secret in and around Knoxville. Its not going to stop me from Buying a boat though. I have a SAN210 now and have narrowed it down to another 210 or an X-45.... best wakes out there. The X-stars beam is too wide Much like my MB tomcat was.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-13-2009, 9:09 AM Reply   
AMO is Kenny Powers.
Quote: " I play professional sports for a living, I am used to having my name mud slang all over the TV and publications. That's why what everyone is saying doesn't bother me."

Kenny F'n Powers.
Old     matt c (curtisco24)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-13-2009, 9:14 AM Reply   
malibu has slowed production but they are not in deep trouble.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-13-2009, 9:31 AM Reply   
Who the hell is Kenny Powers?
And Luke the X45 is 2 inches wider than an XStar.

(Message edited by woreout on March 13, 2009)
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-13-2009, 9:41 AM Reply   
This is Kenny Powers...
Old    gangstar (joe_crawley)      Join Date: Jan 2007       03-13-2009, 9:43 AM Reply   
I also laughed at that Billy, and the 210 is only 2" narrower than the star, WTF? Luke we need to get you into an X1
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-13-2009, 9:58 AM Reply   
Eastbound and Down (Kenny Powers).... its on HBO Sundays @ 9:30. It is awesome.

oh and Billy, want to buy me a plane ticket... spring break starts today for me.... thanks.
Old    Billy (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-13-2009, 10:16 AM Reply   
No but you can stay for free
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-13-2009, 10:19 AM Reply   
ha... I want to but I hate that drive, just doesn't seem that 48 hours of driving would be worth staying for like 120 hrs of staying there... I would fly but I'm pretty broke. Thanks for the offer though.
Old    Luke McCombs (wakemanlm)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-13-2009, 10:44 AM Reply   
actually when you account for the displacement of the cube on the back of the star it actually has more surface area. So I guess I Should have clarified that. I was at the factory the other day and we surfed a 45 with factory ballast and it looked pretty good. I dont think it is as good as the nautique surf wake with factory ballast though. The deals that Mastercraft are now are unbelievable though. The sales structure seems to be killing the MC dealers though.

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