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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive > Archive through March 18, 2009

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Old    Tim C (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       03-01-2009, 12:40 PM Reply   
Check "the perfect powerplant string"
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/654465.html

I was discussing this with some of the most close minded engineers I have ever come across. I didn't think we were quite this close, though.


I did a search and it sounds like you guys have been discussing this for years here as well (I've only been on here for a little while)

----------------------------------------
"Why would you want a diesel wakeboard boat?
did you not see the 440hp and 825 lbs of torque?!?!?!?!"
This is a quote from Mad Child from 2005 -
------------------------------------------

Anyway - I think it's a cool option for our "green" future (whatever the heck that means)...

Petr - I saw that boat - pretty sick (literally and figuratively!)



Just watched the video --EPIC PLEASE HAVE THIS BOAT AT THE FOLSOM LAKE BOAT SHOW THIS YEAR!!!!! I NEED A TEST DRIVE.

(Message edited by lifetimewarranty on March 01, 2009)
Old    Johnny (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-01-2009, 1:24 PM Reply   
In their video you can see how heavy that back end is with all the batteries...its sittin low. looks like you'll need another 500-1K lbs in the bow to level her out.

cant wait to see the specs and price on this.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-01-2009, 3:36 PM Reply   
Solar panels will not have the juice needed for re-charging.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-01-2009, 3:48 PM Reply   
Cost is a big issue, has anyone seen a cost for this boat?

Suppose the 23E cost $20,000 more than a regular 23. Also suppose that your per hour gas use is 5 gal/hour. Let's also say that the per gallon gas cost is $3.00 and that electricity is a third of the per hour gas cost.

So at (5 gal/hr)($3,00/gal) = $15 per hour for gas and then only $5.00 for electricity. Assume you never buy gas for the 23E. Using these assumptions you save $10.00 per hour with the electric drive.

When will pay back for the additional expense occur? The pay back should happen after $20,000/$10/hr = 2000 hours.
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-01-2009, 4:04 PM Reply   
Yes but this will be an AGA boat (Al Gore Approved)
And you will be saving this planet from certain destruction
Old    Dan (hco)      Join Date: Jun 2006       03-01-2009, 4:35 PM Reply   
Love the idea, going to need to have a whole 'nother level of tech certification for dealerships though.
Old    Lionel (lionel)      Join Date: Nov 2005       03-01-2009, 7:22 PM Reply   
Sharpen your pencil Show. PHEV stands for Plug in Hybrid:


"1/4 the Price?

At $3 for a gallon of gas, driving a non-hybrid car costs 8-20 cents/mile (depending on MPG).

With a PHEV, your electric local travel drops to as little as 2-4 cents/mile.

We say above that you can fill up your "electric tank" for less than $1/gallon. How? Using the average U.S. electricity rate of 9 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh), 30 miles of electric driving will cost 81 cents. If we optimistically assume the average US fuel economy is 25 miles per gallon, at $3.00 gasoline this equates to 75 cents a gallon for equivalent electricity. Compared to a regular hybrid's real-world 45 miles per gallon, it's effectively $1.20/gallon.
PHEVs are meant to plug-in at night. In many areas of the country, overnight power is available at a lower cost. As PHEVs start to enter the marketplace, we'll see increasing support from electric utilities, as they'll offer reduced nighttime rates to incentivize off-peak charging. In some areas where wind and hydropower is wasted at night, the rate can be as low as 2-3 cents per kWh. That's 20-25 cents a gallon."
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       03-01-2009, 8:44 PM Reply   
Let me say as an engineer Iím very impressed with what Epic has done, I didnít think anyone would step up and do it. I did list my assumptions and they are certainly open to debate. How about the $20,000 cost difference, I could be way off, right? My point is to ask the community to think about what the real value if any is. Again I donít want to detract from the achievement, really Iím impressed.

So I'm off by $0.25 per "electric gallon", not a big deal. So then the net savings increases from $10 per operating hour to $11.25 and the payback time drops from 2,000 hours to 1,771 hours, right?

In my assumptions I have the boat pulling wakeboarders for an hour and then rushing back to the dock to recharge so dad doesnít revoke riding privileges for burning gas. If you ride for longer than an hour you lose some of the cost savings benefit operating just off batteries. The pay back use would go well past 2,000 hours. So with my assumptions 2,000 hours is an optimistic pay back interval.

Batteries have self discharge rate. Some battery technologies are better than others. NiCads are not too bad, Lithium technologies are generally better. If you charge up every day but only use the boat 20 hours a year youíre going to waste money spent needlessly charging batteries. Good charge management should help reduce these losses but there will be losses, that will show up on your electric bill. You lose very little just leaving your boat sitting around with a full tank.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       03-02-2009, 12:07 AM Reply   
It maybe more expensive and work out to even in XXX amount of years but can you use it as some sort of tax break thing for giong "Green" with a boat?.... that might help make costs even out.
Old    Ted Dreaver (dreevs)      Join Date: Jul 2002       03-02-2009, 5:34 AM Reply   
Gotta start somewhere!
Old    tj (tj_in_kc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-10-2009, 6:29 AM Reply   
lol, well with the wired article out now, and with an expected price tag of $150,000 I think we can finally put this thread to rest.


Just as many of us said a long time ago, Hybrid is not a very good idea for a wakeboat.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/654465.html?1231319922#POST1310791


I give seriously praise to Epic and the team that developed this concept boat. It is very neat and makes a statement about what is possible with todays technology.

With that said. Hybrids are still not a good idea for wakeboats. There are just too many downsides. (read above post for more). I figured the costs would be $20,000 more but since they are using lithium batteries its even greater than that.

neat concept, but this is an astronomical price to pay for this boat (150k for a 50k boat).

No one in their right mind is going to buy this boat.

Well maybe if you were so rich you couldn't figure out how to spend money fast enough!!!

(Message edited by tj_in_kc on March 10, 2009)
Old    Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       03-10-2009, 4:41 PM Reply   
Wow right it off before they even sell one.
Might be a bit premature don't ya think.

If they can get them down to 70K and they are as good as advertised they will sell.


I am a HUGE fan of the Volt type technology! Not because of the whole Green fad but I would love to let the middle east drown in there oil! The world would be much safer place!!!!!!!!!!

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