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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through April 03, 2009

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Old    Carl Ladd (vlxwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2008       02-26-2009, 2:17 PM Reply   
There stating that it will save 50% fuel consumption. With that statement alone I am down.
Old    Jeff Baker (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       02-26-2009, 2:19 PM Reply   
http://www.wakeworld.com/getarticle.asp?articleid=2073
Old    Carl Ladd (vlxwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2008       02-26-2009, 2:21 PM Reply   
I feel that if all goes well this will pretty much force the other companies to follow suit.
Old    Paul Bernier (wakeriderixi)      Join Date: Jan 2004       02-26-2009, 2:23 PM Reply   
Biggest thing I see is the cost of the batteries, how many of them, and how long the life is on them. Sounds pricy.
Old    Evan Miller (mtownrydr)      Join Date: Apr 2008       02-26-2009, 2:26 PM Reply   
Wow out of all the boat companies that have been around looks like epic has got it right! This boat is truly centered on the rider and has this technology now... I think this gives epic a huge edge if the technology is on point and actually works like it is supposed to.
Old    Dave (daveronix199)      Join Date: Feb 2009       02-26-2009, 2:26 PM Reply   
How much use on a charge... Also batteries are good ballast
Old    Ben C (dadthedriver)      Join Date: Jul 2004       02-26-2009, 2:51 PM Reply   
I am glad to see it is public now so I can talk about it. Love the Boat cant wait to get my hands on one to put it through the paces.
Old    schooledrider (rmcronin)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-26-2009, 2:57 PM Reply   
Holy crap! I'd buy that in a second if I had the cash, beautiful!
Old    Blake Andersen (blaketheho)      Join Date: May 2007       02-26-2009, 3:05 PM Reply   
Interesting. A huge part of the efficiency of hybrid cars comes from the regenerative braking and better aerodynamics. I don't see as much of an opportunity for either of those with a boat. Granted a wake boat is stopping and starting more than most boats but I wonder how they're arriving at 50%.

If they have actually accomplished that jump in efficiency, that's awesome. I think everyone here would be happy putting less gas in their boats.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       02-26-2009, 3:32 PM Reply   
I'm wondering why the industry leaders didn't beat Epic to this as well.

Props to Epic. I hope it works out.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-26-2009, 3:41 PM Reply   
Electric engine = massive torque
Massive amount of torque = ability to move a massive amount of ballast
Massive amount of ballast = massive wake

This all seems to add up nicely.
Old    David (detonate69)      Join Date: Apr 2001       02-26-2009, 3:43 PM Reply   
If this boat hits the market with a reasonable price tag it will be HUGE. I would definitely look at buying one. Even if it costs more up front your running costs will be a lot less so I'd be willing to pay a bit more up front.
Old    Todd (ifinallygota21v)      Join Date: Oct 2006       02-26-2009, 3:52 PM Reply   
best idea yet. curious to see the sticker on this one
Old    Spencer (spinner_x)      Join Date: Jun 2008       02-26-2009, 3:59 PM Reply   
I'm not worried about gas yet this summer especially because they say its supposta be down to $1.40 a gallon during summertime around me.
Old    Steve McKim (mbsteez)      Join Date: May 2005       02-26-2009, 3:59 PM Reply   
Maybe some sort of paddle wheel on the bottom of the hull for regeneration? That was the first thing that came to my mind haha.
Old    alan owen (owenitall)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-26-2009, 4:09 PM Reply   
does it have the 4,000 lbs of ballast epic is known for? i wonder why that was not mentioned.
Old    Jason Callen (westsidarider)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-26-2009, 4:15 PM Reply   
Well they said there was an on-board generator to charge the batteries. I would expect the technology to be there for the generator to be charging batteries while the boat is running and pulling riders so running out of juice would be out of the question for me.

Also like others have stated the amount of batteries needed for this beast would equal a ton of weight meaning more ballast and bigger wakes without the need to add a ton of water or lead weight.

My only concern would be battery longevity and cost to replace them.
Old    alan owen (owenitall)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-26-2009, 4:16 PM Reply   
it would be good to save on fuel costs, but i do not believe in global warming or al gore. haven't both already been disproven?
Old    Carl Ladd (vlxwakeboarder)      Join Date: Jun 2008       02-26-2009, 4:21 PM Reply   
This boat does have the 4,000 lbs of ballast.
Old    Joe Umali (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-26-2009, 4:46 PM Reply   
awesome! glad to see this finally make it to production.

would the buyer have options re: the wrap? that wrap is hideous.
Old    G $krilla (burbanized)      Join Date: Mar 2004       02-26-2009, 5:15 PM Reply   
Hey! KId

don't make videos for "new" boat companies. they won't pay you.
Old    Steve Jones (steve_jones)      Join Date: Jun 2006       02-26-2009, 9:51 PM Reply   
I'm with Ben. Glad to be able to talk about one of the greatest innovations our sport has seen!!!!!

Been in the works for a long time.
Old    Nick Swan (goinbigg17)      Join Date: Jul 2002       02-26-2009, 10:11 PM Reply   
Glad to see something like this finally hit the water. It will be interesting to see the sticker price on it though...any word on when that will be released?
Old    Steve - O (misteve)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-26-2009, 10:20 PM Reply   
I want more info! I didn't see any more info on Epics site, definitely an awesome idea that's needed to happen...
Old    Rich Dykmans (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       02-27-2009, 7:56 AM Reply   
"I'm wondering why the industry leaders didn't beat Epic to this as well. "

Up until a year ago or so the mfgs were all selling more boats then they could make and now they're barely getting by. Neither scenario lends itself much to innovation.

This sounds like a pretty big gamble given the state of things currently but I sure hope it works out for epic. It will be tough to pass on a boat like this when gas starts heading back up again like we all know it will so this is probably a smart move on their part.
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-27-2009, 8:02 AM Reply   
It's all about marketing and ignorance. The truth is that a Toyota Prius is a joke. It takes more energy to produce them, you'll never see savings, due to maintenance of the batteries and small diesels are waaaay more efficient.

But the media and marketing has the general public convinced that hybrids are the way to go. So, Epic is in a good position.
Old    JDUB (jward10)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-27-2009, 8:48 AM Reply   
Why should the leaders of the industry even care about this? Think about it. If you can afford 60-80K on a brand new boat, do you really think putting gas in the thing is going to be an issue.

Do you think you will ever see a porche or lambo with a bunch of batteries in it. I think not.
Old    Patrick Fort (pfort)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-27-2009, 9:03 AM Reply   
Rumor has it priced at around $150,000. Not sure how valid it is.

http://www.dallaswakeboarding.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=45&func=view &id=14293&catid=13
Old     (fatsac)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-27-2009, 9:14 AM Reply   
JDUB -
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/10/rufs-electric-porsche-breaks-cover/
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       02-27-2009, 9:18 AM Reply   
?Up until a year ago or so the mfgs were all selling more boats then they could make and now they're barely getting by. Neither scenario lends itself much to innovation."

Well, Malibu just engineered a new VLX hull, and launched new line with new mold for their Axis line. It seems to me like they're spending on innovation.

"If you can afford 60-80K on a brand new boat, do you really think putting gas in the thing is going to be an issue."

Hell yes, my monthly gas bill was over a thousand a month when I owned my own boat. That's 4 times the payment. Gas was a much bigger issue than paying for the boat.
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-27-2009, 9:26 AM Reply   
Sorry, but selling too many boats is no excuse for lacking innovation or improving a product. Toyota is a great example of this. They are constantly working to change their models for the better. I took a few strategic management classes in school that involved heavy case study work and the most successful companies were those differentiating themselves and constantly innovating and moving. Static business is a recipe for disaster.

As far as the hybrid being "trendy" I couldnt agree more on the Prius comment or the general idea. However innovation NEEDS To happen at all levels to help push progression. The first electronic calculator/computer was a joke, but look where it got us.
Old    Mike K (mike2001)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-27-2009, 9:29 AM Reply   
Congrats to Epic for being the 1st to introduce this innovation.
Old    Jeremy Cannon (johny_malibu)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-27-2009, 9:34 AM Reply   
its funny how they always fail to mention the important stuff in their marketing spill, LIKE THE PRICE!
Old    David Christman (lfrider92)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-27-2009, 10:42 AM Reply   
about time!
i knew it would come eventually. i saw it on the wakeworld homepage and went through the roof. ive always loved their boats anyways
Old    Scott (phxwakeguy)      Join Date: Dec 2008       02-27-2009, 10:58 AM Reply   
$150K; Not exactly a price point boat

Letís say you spend a generous 100K for a decked out brand new non-electric ride. That leaves 50K extra for gas.

So w/ that 50K @ $2/gallon = 25,000 gallons.

40 gal per fill would allow for 625 tanks of gas.

Thatís a lot of gas. Roughly 12 yearís worth at 1 tank per week.

Letís take last summer's price of ~$4/gal.

$50k = 12,500 gal, = 312.5 tanks of fuel. ~6 years worth.


I donít think the economicsí warrant the tech at a $150,000 price tag. -if thatís really the price. Not until gas gets up to about $8 per gallon, then you would break even on the added expense in about 3 years. (and probably then have to replace the batteries or some other misc maintenance)

Its a great first step and congrats to Epic for taking a stab at it, but I sincerely hope thats not the price.
Old    BP (spyderwinches)      Join Date: Nov 2008       02-27-2009, 11:56 AM Reply   
This boat wont make it becuz of price and cost of maintaining the boats techlnowlogy.

its hard enough for someone to afford a normal boat with the price of a normal boats at an all time high and rising because of material cost.

And lets be serious the normal boat buyer doesnt use there boat nearly enough times a year to justify spending around 100k more for a hybrid boat.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-27-2009, 11:57 AM Reply   
^but you're saving the environment, and that is worthless, or um...priceless.
Old    Jeremy Byrom (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-27-2009, 12:29 PM Reply   
do you think there is something out there that will give you a discount on the boat... or even soon to be. i ain't keeping up with the national politics and news, but i swear i remeber some kind of rebate or something the government was offering on hybrid cars before. i also hear some people talking about getting money for installing solar or wind power?

even if there was a refund/rebate thing, i immagine it would be small in comparison? but hey, i thought i'd bring it up for discussion and for elaboration.

call Obama ang get him out on a boat! ;)
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-27-2009, 12:35 PM Reply   
this is great idea and while it basically a Concept boat like concept cars they arent really going to be reqdy for mainstream yet especially at the higher cost.

at least they have one ready now to experiment with the next few years and maybe find ways to lower cost and put a few more out ready for the public..


Im not a big fan of hybrid either ,no way ill get my ROI back at initial cost vs how long ill keep the car and where are all those dead batterys going to go? a special dump somewhere which takes up the enviroment with the possibilty of leaks into our earth and cause more issues..

thats not green,make a Green Vehicle with hydrogen fuel cell propulsion to where we can run cars on salt water or water and then we can talk about saving the enviroment..They have the tech but havent made it work in a normal size vehicle yet busses in some citys are using them last i heard.

Hybrids,propane,biodiesel,and Ethanol isnt the answer its all just hype to satisfy tree huggers and big brother IMO..
Old    M-Dizzle (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-27-2009, 12:40 PM Reply   
It's amazing how something so positive becomes so negative on this forum. Absolutely amazing.
Old    Chris Phelps (cpizzle)      Join Date: Sep 2007       02-27-2009, 1:35 PM Reply   
When ultracapacitor technology is fully developed and mainstream in the next few years then the debate will be over.

http://www.zennergy.com/
Old    Jeremy Cannon (johny_malibu)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-27-2009, 1:37 PM Reply   
"It's amazing how something so positive becomes so negative on this forum. Absolutely amazing."

It's called reality, some of us live in it!
Old    Bill Montanye (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-27-2009, 2:02 PM Reply   
Mdizzle ,i think its a great thing and awesome they went ahead and exhausted time and resources to develope the first of its kind but i live in reality and a forum is here for debates..things cant all be seen through rose colored glasses IMO
Old    Jeremy (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       02-27-2009, 2:29 PM Reply   
Wakecraft is developing a hybrid boat. It's awesome.
Old    Spencer (spinner_x)      Join Date: Jun 2008       02-27-2009, 2:36 PM Reply   
The money you would be saving on gas wouldn't even add up to the amount you would be paying for the boat. Maybe in 5 years where the technology isn't that expensive and more widely distributed that it would be more practical.

It's a step in the right direction, I just don't see people running out to drop that type of money in our economy these days.
Old    Dhtige Hill (dh03r6)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-27-2009, 2:50 PM Reply   
Im buying one.
Old    Dhtige Hill (dh03r6)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-27-2009, 2:50 PM Reply   
NO im not
Old    Scott Dearduff (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-27-2009, 3:01 PM Reply   
No matter what your take on it is. I am glad to see someone stepping up and trying cut my gas bill down and if helping the planet comes with it then I just feel that much warmer about it
Old    Tuneman (tuneman)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-27-2009, 3:12 PM Reply   
Hey, I just heard about a new fuel that is supposed to be super efficient with a really high BTU content. And I guess they've already developed emissions stuff for it so it burns super clean. I think they call it oil or gasoline or something like that.

Here's another thing that may be interesting to you. To become "energy independent" is ridiculous. Why do we import oil? BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER! But hey, what do I know. Let's stop importing oil from our number one provider...uh, Canada, not the Middle East, and use our own energy so that a gallon of gas at the pump will be $8. Hey, we'd be energy independent and all be driving mopeds.

I love to rant sometimes:-)
Old    BP (spyderwinches)      Join Date: Nov 2008       02-27-2009, 3:29 PM Reply   
a little off the subject but how do u figure $8?
Old    Mark (mofreestyle)      Join Date: Jan 2006       02-27-2009, 5:33 PM Reply   
No thanks.

Batteries are improving and getting cheaper but it will take a long time before the boat would be reasonably priced. In these hard times other hurting companies would be stupid to put up this kind of money to develop a hybrid boat. A hybrid boat is worthless without a company to make it. Not too worried about the small amount of pollution my boat is putting into the environment. Much better ways to help the environment than messing with my boat.

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