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Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-04-2008, 1:57 PM Reply   
The AWSA Fall SO California Wakesurf event will be the debut of the New Sanger V237 Surf Series Boat. At least one if not both of the boats used will be the new model. The surf specific changes will take wakesurfing to a whole new level. The V237 was a great surf boat, but now it should be spectacular. Join us on October 12th at Lower Castaic Lake. See thread under events for information.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-04-2008, 2:11 PM Reply   
What are the changes to the boat to make it surf series? Can't wait to see 'em.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-04-2008, 2:44 PM Reply   
I haven't seen all the changes. I know that we had talked about taking off some of the swim deck that was under water and a new wake plate system that Scott Pellaton says is great in testing. Plus new graphics.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-04-2008, 2:49 PM Reply   
Can't wait to see it. They should consider a new tower also, that thing seems very flimsy. Looks like it folds nice though.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-04-2008, 3:49 PM Reply   
Sweet! I can't wait to see it the V237 is on my radar and will be mine one day. Keep us posted on the new changes Dennis.
Old    Rayprisz (priszkid)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-04-2008, 9:04 PM Reply   
always love to see the sanger updates-hopefully soon.
Old    Andy H (andyh)      Join Date: Aug 2005       10-04-2008, 10:46 PM Reply   
anyone have pics of the surf edition yet?
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-05-2008, 8:40 AM Reply   
No pictures yet. They haven't changed the swim deck. It really doesn't effect the wake on the V237 as much as on some boats. The big change is the dual wake plate system.
Old    Daren Jacobson (dtown)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-06-2008, 8:43 AM Reply   
Dennis - We are looking to buy a new boat this winter. What is the closest Sanger Dealer to Denver, CO?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-11-2008, 1:31 PM Reply   
OK...

I am at Lake Castaic with Dennis. My son RJ is helping him setup the boat and my daughter is taking some vid to get ready for tomorrow, she will be taking vid at contest. I have the waverunners for the contest and dropped them off at the Sanger dealer and one of the surf boats is in shrink wrap there. Very nice. It has 3, yes 3 trim tabs on the back to adjust the wake. It looks very cool. Can't wait to hear back from RJ and Dennis about how it performs.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-11-2008, 1:39 PM Reply   
Here are some pics of the plate.

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Swimstep, seems the same as before.

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New killer graphics, I really like them.

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Surfracks and hard bimini, prob get tubes up there no problem.

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Also, there was a 2009 v230 there. I didn't care much, started to drive by and WHOAH! This thing had the new wake plates on it also. Couple pics.

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Enjoy! Should have some more pics of the contest later. Maybe dennis will be able to speak to how the new plates worked.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-11-2008, 2:12 PM Reply   
I'm real interested to hear how well the wake plates do. I've been suggesting them for a while.
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       10-11-2008, 3:53 PM Reply   
Wonder if the wake plates were done in house or if they were done by an outside vendor.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-11-2008, 4:00 PM Reply   
I'm sure that's Sanger OME.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-11-2008, 5:46 PM Reply   
That is a 215 not a 230 you can see it peeking out from under the cover. It does say 230 on the cover though.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-11-2008, 7:21 PM Reply   
Nice pictures Robert! One of the boats is supposed to have a slightly smaller swimdeck, cut at an angle. Something that I was impressed with is that the bottom of the swimdeck is molded. In most of the fiberglass swimdecks, the bottom is left unfinished so you wind up with a "hook" at the back lip. On this, you can see the chrome strip across the middle, the bottom is flat so that the water doesn't catch and grab and chew up the face.

Ed, I do believe that your trim tab system works as you expected. :-)

Dennis has all the contact with the folks from Sanger, so I'll let him fill in all the details about the production.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-11-2008, 9:43 PM Reply   
My dealer sent me these pictures:

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Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-11-2008, 9:50 PM Reply   
A few more:


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Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-11-2008, 9:51 PM Reply   
Uno mas:


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Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-11-2008, 9:57 PM Reply   
There's your new swim step and turned down exhaust and as you can see it's available with just the trim tabs on the sides rather than the middle in fact he told me it would be just 2 23" plates on the side for the once it goes into production. I'm gonna rep them a little because their so good to me, their The Pro Shop in Longview, Wa. and Don and is the man there and so is his boy Jason. They also do a full length in floor ballast system in place of the aft V drive tanks that would be killer with this set up.
Old    Who Cares (liljohn)      Join Date: May 2007       10-11-2008, 10:00 PM Reply   
we need wave pics!!
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-11-2008, 11:09 PM Reply   
I have some wave pics, I may be able to post a couple tonight. The green sanger I took pics of, is not a SURF series boat, but has 3 trim tabs on rear, and has the normal swim step. The SURF series blue boat has trim tabs on right and left, just like the green one, but has a stationary plate in the center, which is kind of interesting. The surf series blue boat also has the new surf swim platform which dennis said was nice, it didn't effect the wake at all. I was on the turloch 237s, and there was a point where the step did effect. This is a great feature, and is one of the things I want to fabricate for my boat over the winter. Not only is the step cut in the corners and smaller, but it is also smooth on the bottom, where as most, like my Tige, has a big rough lip on the bottom that makes turbulents in the water. Some more pics. You will notice one major flaw on the surf boat. It has cool graphics, but they are drip domed, and were peeling off all over the place. I have also had to replace graphics on my Tige from heavy surfing. It is definitely something manufacturers will need to account for with surf specific boats. Sanger needs to resolve that graphics issue quick. The green boat, with the other graphics, is a normal decal, should last longer than those domes.

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Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-12-2008, 12:02 AM Reply   
They probably just need to be adhered better. 3M you readin' this?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-12-2008, 12:10 AM Reply   
Here are some wake pics. NOTE: conditions were bad, it was very windy and whitecaps due to the wind. They shut down the ramp due to the wind, so they had a very short practice and setup time.

Regular side is big and nice, steep with a big lip.

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Now here is the goofy side with my son RJ riding. It was big, but had a large curl and the double wave in a wave issue, which made the effective wave smaller. RJ said he enjoyed the wave, but felt he couldn't get much height due to the wave in a wave.

NOTE: I am sure we will have better pics tomorrow, I was on the sangers at tulloch, and the goofy was better.

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RJ definitely felt the difference with the swim step. It didn't seem to interfere at all.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-12-2008, 6:53 AM Reply   
Oh my. That is a pronounced secondary lip in the first and last pictures of RJ. I don't remember that issue from Tulloch or the pictures folks posted from the Delta. Hopefully it's just a ballasting issue.

Is it my imagination, Robert, or do the pictures (of the darkside wake only) look as if the two with the pronounced seconadry lip the boat is turning INTO the wake and in the remaining pictures the boat seems like it's turning away from the wake. Perhaps it's just the angle of the photo?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-12-2008, 7:30 AM Reply   
He may have been turning at the time, but talking to RJ, that was pretty much how the wake was.

We took video so whitney could practice before today, and you can see the same thing. I wanted to test my disk I bought to store the video and stuff, so downloaded all of it from the camera. I was looking at it, and testing making stills from it and stuff, and then started to put some clips together. Even on a laptop it is very quick to edit something together. Here is a quicktime video, click on the link, then click on LARGE for the good version.

http://gallery.me.com/ragboy#100353

Side Note. RJ told me about the guys he rode with, Johhny and Cory. I looked at the video and I said, "Isn't that Johhny Stieg?" RJ said, I don't think so. At first he was on a TWP board in the vid, so I thought maybe not, just looked like him. Then I see him on that new purple shred stixx. I said, RJ, that is Johnny Stieg. You know the guy in that shred stixx video we just saw the other day? RJ was funny. "You mean I was riding with Johnny Stieg?" Its a good thing he didn't know or he would have just been a deer in the headlights on the boat. At first I thought RJ just rode with a couple of teenagers when he told me they were all playing with the LightSaber app on his iPhone. ;-)

@johnny
Thanks for giving my boy a few tips, he really enjoyed the time with you and cory and dennis.
Old    Derek (ds3)      Join Date: Jun 2008       10-12-2008, 11:02 AM Reply   
That's so cool for RJ. My buddy gave Chase a pull in Austin the other week. He said watching those guys ride is just amazing. The waves look okay, can't wait to see the pics tonight!
Old    Joe B (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-12-2008, 7:43 PM Reply   
Let us know about the "in the hull ballast" mentioned above.

Does it have the 'fill doors' like MB that happens in seconds?

I really like what I see from Sanger, but you need to come farther East.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-12-2008, 8:52 PM Reply   
^^^Thats specific to The Pro Shop not Sanger and it's not gravity based but rather utilizes the traditional pumps. If you know Sangers they like the weight mor 60/40 bow/stern thus their reasoning for this set up plus you don't lose half your V drive locker.
Old    Johnny Stieg (jstieg)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-12-2008, 10:45 PM Reply   
there was soooo much wind and chop the whole time out there. it is hard to dial in any wave in those types of conditions. i rode a non surf series in texas a while back and it had a wave i would put 2nd to the enzo. but it put a perfect wave on both sides of the boat where the enzo only does one side or the other.

the surf series was a really great idea. we played around with the tabs and could esily change the shape of the wave. the only problem was the wave was extreemly flat. im not sure if it was a weight issue or something with the tabs but it never got a good defined steep face on it with a crisp lip that you could boost off. the non surf series 237 did have a great steep big face and a nice lip.

the boat has so much potential, it just needs to be taken out on a calm day and played with some more. cant be afraid to add alot of extra weight because it seems thats all that you can really do to make the wave bigger. in all the wave was basicly surfable with stock balast and some extra lead and water in the rear locer, althogh i wouldent rate the boat as high as some others i have ridden.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-12-2008, 11:36 PM Reply   
Yes, conditions were rough. Wind was sustained about 25 all day with gusts up to 40. The lagoon beaches were beautiful, I would have loved to have been there in good conditions. I have lots of GREAT HD video, but have a business meeting tomorrow and so will not get around to anything until Tuesday. Our Video cam will also snap stills WHILE video taping, which is a very cool feature. So I am posting up a bunch of stills that I have quickly thrown up to show some great riding, even in rough conditions.

As a dad, I must add this, RJ surfed for his first time in open surf and got 3rd. I know it was not a great turnout, but to see him holding a trophy next to walker and stieg was very cool for me. We def love this port.

Here are the pics, enjoy. If others have more images, you can upload them into the same gallery below, if you wish to keep them all in one place.

http://gallery.me.com/ragboy/100361
Old    Rob (wakesurf_ohio)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-12-2008, 11:46 PM Reply   
The gallery only has one picture of Ryan in it ..

Can't wait to see more though =]
Old    dtw. (notsobueno)      Join Date: Dec 2004       10-13-2008, 12:45 AM Reply   
Robert, you are FAST. I have a bunch of shots, but probably won't get to post any until later tomorrow at the earliest.

Was a fun day. Nice to meet everyone and see some great riding as well. Extra great riding actually, considering the conditions.
Old    Derek (ds3)      Join Date: Jun 2008       10-13-2008, 1:16 AM Reply   
Great pics Robert. Looking forward to more!
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-13-2008, 10:48 AM Reply   
I wonder with adding surf tabs to tiges convex hull would make this wave shaping effects greater? I think you could basically add surf tabs to any boat, and tabs are super easy to install! I can't wait to see more pictures of the wake.

Duffy
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-13-2008, 1:00 PM Reply   
Robert - thank you and the entire Garcia clan for all the support this weekend. I really appreciate you taking all the video and gleaning the stills from those.

This picture from dtw of Judy, makes the wake look so huge! She truly does make the perfect "surf wake model" :-)

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Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       10-13-2008, 1:00 PM Reply   
The surf wave pictured above is not very impressive.
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       10-13-2008, 2:37 PM Reply   
That wave doesn't appear to have a defined and steep lip at ALL. It has some size but not that overly impressed. And then tabs on the boat look fragile on the trailer with the tiedown cranked down on the edge. the back of the boat is very busy also with all the trim tabs and stuff To much for me.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-13-2008, 5:57 PM Reply   
I don't know about the wake shape, Iíd have to ride it.

I don't care if the back of the boat is bare or busy, canít see it when itís in the water. What I would like is a good wake on both sides without any fuss, or at least a good wake on both side even with the fuss.

Really now, how busy do the trim tabs look when compared to the SB?
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-13-2008, 8:51 PM Reply   
I will try to answer the trim tab questions first.
The trim tabs allow a great range of flexibility in what the wake looks like. I don't think they create a wake where there is none. I am not sure if they could fix an Enzo goofy wake. What they do on the Sanger is allow you to take a fully weighted on one side boat and change the wake from steep to wakeboard with the touch of the trim tab button. We changed the tab settings for the skim class to take some of the steepness out of it. Overall a great concept that we will continue to refine.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-13-2008, 9:18 PM Reply   
The boats at the contest ran with 1250 lbs in the back corner unlike the V237 without the trim tabs I did not weight the front at all. The tabs did that for me. I picked the Blue boat up at the factory and brought it to the lake the next day. The Smart tow system was not set for GPS mode on Saturday for the test. We played with the tab setting for most of the time people rode. Some of the pictures don't do the wake justice. The picture with Judy above give the appearance that the wake is not steep when in fact the transition is so smooth that it appears soft. Here is a picture from Sat.Upload this shows the steepness better.
Old    Lead Wakeô (jc57)      Join Date: Jul 2008       10-13-2008, 9:34 PM Reply   
Hey Dennis, great pictures from the event. Just wanted to thank you again for letting me advertise my "Lead Wake" bags. Let me know if I can help out again, and when you're ready for some Lead, keep me in mind.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-13-2008, 9:46 PM Reply   
Hey Jared,
Great meeting you at the event. Your LEAD WAKE bags are a terrific way to add ballast. Well designed and made. A lot nicer on the boat then my lead bags. I am sure there is a big market for ballast of this quality.
Old    Hate N Pain (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-14-2008, 10:43 AM Reply   
Whats the story with the Lead Wake bags and how do they differ from Pop Products?
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-14-2008, 11:13 AM Reply   
They are actually lead. From what I understand they are recycled spent bullets. Also, they are sown in a very tough canvas like material. They also come in 40 lb bags and seem much sturdier than pop bags. I own pop bags myself. The lead wake bags are also a bit smaller, due to denser lead. I have no idea how much they cost, I just saw a sample and got the flyer at the contest, but they looked and felt better and more durable than pop bags.
Old    Greg "The Hammer" (leaks)      Join Date: Oct 2005       10-14-2008, 11:32 AM Reply   
Is there a website for the Lead Wake Bags?
Old    Josh Howell (liquid119)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-14-2008, 11:37 AM Reply   
Those Lead Wake bags were great. They are smaller then pop bags, more durable, and they have high density foam on the bottom so if you drop them the bag (and your toe) doesn't take the damage. If you are looking for lead weight those are the way to go.
Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-14-2008, 11:38 AM Reply   
I didn't see one on his flyer or his card.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-14-2008, 9:43 PM Reply   
You can contact Jared of Lead Wakes. Check out his profile above.
We may have a group buy going if anyone is interested.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-14-2008, 10:07 PM Reply   
Now to the Sanger boat. First the stickers on the boat were, according to the manufacturer, for display. He removed the stickers and reapplied new ones the morning of the contest and those showed no damage at all after the contest. They are supposed to be applied in air temps well above the 50 degrees we had that morning and they should sit 24 hrs before they are put in the water. I don't think the stickers properly applied will come off.
These boats were the first with the trim tabs. The blue boat was the only one with a cutoff swim deck which worked very well. I picked up the blue boat at the factory on Friday and took it to the lake on Sat. There was no dealer prep done the cover was taken off, I put gas in and launched at the upper lake. I had never driven a 237 with the tabs before so we set off to test the boat. The Smart Tow GPS unit was not setup so we drove in RPM mode for the whole testing period. The boat performed very well though the tabs seemed counter intuitive to me and the new boats will be orientated differently for ease of use. I should add at this time that everything that I have asked for in the way of improvements, Sanger has either fixed or will in the future. Sanger has made a major commitment to the sport of wakesurfing. Josh our driver, the top wakesurf driver in the world I might add, did not like the bolster on the seat, Scott has already talked to the factory designers to improve the seat. Scott and I both did not like the way the tie downs interfered with the plates. The new boats will have tie downs placed as to not interfere with their operation.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-14-2008, 10:29 PM Reply   
The Smart Tow control system is a very cool new design. The system works with the Mercury Catalytic motor. First it is a GPS system that controls speed. The launch mode is a new innovation that pulls your riders up at a given pull. The modes are 1 to 5 with 1 being a very slow start to 5 being a wakeboar or waterski start. the pull out of the water is the same every time and the boat doesn't go over the preselected speed at all. This feature works very well and is great in a competition because there is no waiting for the boat to settle into the correct speed for the wake to form properly. This also allows the driver to concentrate on the water ahead. I did not have a lot of time to check out all the other features on this system. One feature I did use was the fuel consumption reading that tells you how many gallons of fuel have been used and how many gallons per hour currently being used. We all know that the gauge never shows how much gas is in the tank when the boat is loaded for surfing. A feature that I think may be helpful is a water pressure reading. This might tell you when the impeller is failing before it actually quits ( Jeff read this).
All in all this system makes every other system I have seen archaic.
Old    dtw. (notsobueno)      Join Date: Dec 2004       10-14-2008, 10:49 PM Reply   
Josh told me that the 40 pound bags were $40. He is located very near Castaic Lake.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-15-2008, 6:28 AM Reply   
Too funny Dennis I am not the cause of the failing impellors! :-) I got this image in my head of the crew in the boat asking - what's all the smoke coming from the engine and me saying - ah don't worry about that - just surf. :-)
Old    Josh Howell (liquid119)      Join Date: Aug 2008       10-15-2008, 9:16 AM Reply   
I wrote a little about how it was driving those new Sangers; they are great. Bottom of the thread.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/635255.html?1224020989
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-28-2008, 11:22 PM Reply   
Here are some pictures I pulled from the Videos I got from Robert Garcia ( thanks Robert and Whitney)
Upload
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Old    Robert Garcia (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-28-2008, 11:45 PM Reply   
There is a tip for getting the best stills from this type of video. First, the video is in 1080i, not 1080p, which means it is interlaced, so a good still needs to be "stitched". If you load these videos into the latest imovie, then scrub to a spot in the video and right click and select "add still frame to project". Then go to the project window and right click on the newly added still, and select "show in finder". Then will see a spanking new stitched JPEG at 1920x1080.
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-09-2009, 1:53 AM Reply   
Can anyone post updates as to their experiences with the new V237 surf edition? Any more news on the new tab system and how the waves are?
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-09-2009, 10:55 AM Reply   
I know the Sanger dealer at the LA boat show was telling my buddy about a youtube video showing the wave. Does anyone have that link? He said the boat is sick!
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-09-2009, 11:03 AM Reply   
I believe this is the YouTube Video. I think Mike Armstrong of Calibrated put it together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcVlZZ7QZus
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-09-2009, 12:15 PM Reply   
That goofy wave is epic!

It doesn't even look like the boat is slammed all that hard.

(Message edited by taft on February 09, 2009)
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       02-09-2009, 5:46 PM Reply   
Here is a picture taken the same day as the video. This guy was the first to ride that day. This is one of the first times the V237 was setup as a surf boat. 1200# in locker 600 # front stock ballast

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Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-09-2009, 6:11 PM Reply   
Is this solid ballast or water? Was the ballast hidden? Thanks
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-09-2009, 6:52 PM Reply   
1200lbs in the locker? That's a sh**ton of ballast in one locker. I second Duffy's questions.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       02-09-2009, 6:58 PM Reply   
I've had two 750s in the back locker of my boat.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-09-2009, 7:04 PM Reply   
So the lockers are huge?
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       02-09-2009, 7:09 PM Reply   
That ballast was stock ballast plus 500# lead and water about 400#. All the ballast is under the hatch. Actually less than an Enzo sack. At the contest we used no front ballast just tabs to get the same effect.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       02-09-2009, 7:11 PM Reply   
I assume the Sanger lockers are about the same as my boat. Boat to boat the engine size is about the same and that has a big impact on locker size, right?

To be fair both 750 werenít completely full.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       02-09-2009, 7:16 PM Reply   
Does it have stock tanks in the lockers? What are the dimensions of the locker area? Sweet boat, my buddy almost bought one in LA.
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       02-09-2009, 7:23 PM Reply   
Yes it does have hard tanks in the lockers. If you take the hard tank out and plumb in a custom sac. It is possible IMO to get around 1100# or so in just water. That would allow changing sides in about 7 min. The wake would be very good with that weight. I have an idea to get a great wake in the same amount of time to switch.
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-09-2009, 7:32 PM Reply   
These boats keep sounding better and better.

Dennis, any estimate on how far back people could ride the wave?
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       02-09-2009, 9:31 PM Reply   
Not sure what kind of estimate and couldn't find any pictures with rides way back. It is long though. Plenty of riding room.

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