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Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       12-16-2008, 10:28 AM Reply   
I think a single trim tab where the wakeplate is, would divert the prop wash and might clean up the wake. This concept that works on lots of boats. The stock wakeplate, to my knowledge doesn't adjust alot. Good luck, can't wait to see if it works.

Duffy
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-09-2009, 5:56 PM Reply   
Wakedoc,
Sorry to get this thread going, but I really like your goofy and regular wake. In your opinion is sv240 goofy wake as good as an Avy goofy wake? If both are slammed? I really like the idea of a 24 foot boat and room for lots of people! I wish someone tried putting a hydraulic wake plate on a 230, there is a pretty good deal here on one locally. That would be a sweet easy fix for such a awesome boat!

Duffy
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-09-2009, 6:00 PM Reply   
Also, does your Enzo have a switchblade?
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-09-2009, 6:02 PM Reply   
No SB on the WO boats.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-09-2009, 6:05 PM Reply   
Thats another variable? I wonder if anyone has a hydraulic wakeplate and a switchblade installed?

Duffy
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-09-2009, 6:15 PM Reply   
I don't think they can both be installed, not enough room for both.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-09-2009, 8:07 PM Reply   
The lenco piston is really small and super easy to install. It's electric and it only needs a positive and negative wiring.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-10-2009, 2:00 PM Reply   
Man, don't let me stop you buy I'm not sure it can be done. Look at the back of Jame's boat and my old Lightning. It just doesn't seem like you have room for both.

Upload
Upload
Upload
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-11-2009, 4:05 PM Reply   
I talked to the people at switchblade and they said the same thing. The pistons will prob get in the way. Your lightning hull looks alot like the Avy's.
Duffy
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-12-2009, 3:56 PM Reply   
I talked to a centurion dealer in Washington and they said that they get a great goofy wake on their 23 foot enzo with stock ballast full except the port side and a 750 pound fat sac on top of the starboard tank. Plus having the bennet tab at 3/4's down. But no photo's so I don't know if I believe them. They also said there shouldn't be a difference between the 230 and 240 hull.
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-12-2009, 4:04 PM Reply   
I'm sure most dealers would say the goofy wave is great. After reading all the posts about the goofy wave over the past few months, it sounds like I'm going to have to get the right surf option.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-12-2009, 4:07 PM Reply   
Yeah, I think if you ride mostly goofy, I would buy it, but there is picture proof that a nice (at least looking wave) can be built on a normal 240(wakeoutlaws). No hard evidence yet on a 230. I need to have both waves rock solid. The dealer is suppose to email me pictures, but we will see.

Duffy
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-12-2009, 4:28 PM Reply   
I am still wondering if the real key for the decent goofy wave on the SV230 is the Switchblade. Sure wish we could hear from some actual SV230 owners with Switchblades. I know Troy Mann has posted about the SV230 any others out there?
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       01-12-2009, 6:19 PM Reply   
Someone get Jason Miller to reply. He's an avid Centurion and has a 230 with a SB.

He has previously posted that he likes the 230 with the SB. He had it off for a while and missed it.
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-12-2009, 8:03 PM Reply   
On the Ace Marine Switchblade install pics it shows a wakeplate that extends the distance of the Switchblade right up to the bolt. I wonder if that is what cures the rooster tail?
http://acemarine.biz/gallery2.asp?subject=37&offset=0
Old    Matt (duramat)      Join Date: Feb 2008       01-12-2009, 11:32 PM Reply   
Packrat did I understand that was an elite V in that link?
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-13-2009, 9:29 AM Reply   
It was DjJamesz Centurion Cyclone I think.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-13-2009, 9:53 AM Reply   
Yeah, it is DjJamesz cyclone. Sweet looking boat and a very nice wave.
Duffy
Old    BJ Hipskind (crazyhippy)      Join Date: Apr 2008       01-13-2009, 10:22 AM Reply   
How about going around the SwitchBlade? Going to have to go custom on the plate, but it's not rocket science.
Maybe do like the old flat bottoms and run a pivot rod w/ solid struts down to the edges of the plate?
Could go longer, wider, shaped... lots of options here.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-13-2009, 10:33 AM Reply   
Most of the trim tab companies have tons and tons of options. I totally think you could go around the switchblade.
Duffy
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-13-2009, 11:06 AM Reply   
Wouldn't the wave height be affected if you're extending the trim tab more and more? I understand it would help with the splash, but doesn't it knock down the wave a bit?
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-13-2009, 11:24 AM Reply   
Well from my understanding, it would def make the wave smaller, wakeoutlaws says that it was a good wake, but not as good as the regular. I am ok, with buying an enzo if the goofy wake is good and the regular is great! I just can't buy a boat that only has one surfable side. I just hope someone will try the bennet trim tab with a enzo sac on a 230 before I am ready to buy this spring:-)

Duffy
Old    Andrew Taft (taft)      Join Date: Jul 2006       01-13-2009, 12:10 PM Reply   
I'm in the same spot as you. I'm looking to pick up a 230 or 240 at next months boat show but for 80k you'd want both sides to be great.
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-14-2009, 10:09 AM Reply   
Duffy, The wake above in the pictures and the description of how the boat was loaded is what we do when we ride regular and goofy, although we do not ride goofy as much I have not had a complaint about it. As far as the 23, it is the same hull only a foot shorter so you should not see that much difference, with the boat being smaller it should be easier to create the same wake and with less weight. Also keep in mind there are a lot of opinions in this thread from people that do not own one of these boats and or have very little time in or behind one. Riding behind an Enzo a couple of times does not give you the ability to determine whether or not the goofy wake is good or not, there are too many variables that the person is not in control of. I suggest that you get a crew, grab fat sacs that combined will simulate a Enzo sac and go and test drive both the 23 and 24 and make the decision. If your dealer wants to sell you a boat they should be willing to let you load both up and decide if it meets your needs before buying. Good Luck.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-14-2009, 10:21 AM Reply   
WakeDoc,
Thanks so much, I have now heard from a few people that a goof wake can be made on the goofy side. Any chance of videos? I don't think I am that lucky. Thanks again
Duffy
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-14-2009, 12:20 PM Reply   
WakeDoc is absolutely correct. This is something I didn't do when I bought mine but wish I had.

I only rode behind a SV240 with Bennett and ended up with a SV230 with Bennett.

Although I am sure I will be happy with the Boat, I have been wavering on adding the switchblade.

I too have had Dealers and riders giving me opinions and most really don't have a lot of time behind the boats.
Old    Patrick Steed (steedracer)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-14-2009, 6:07 PM Reply   
For what it is worth, I have had an SV230 for 3 seasons. We don't put as much weight on her as most, only 750 sac in the port rear, and about 500 lbs. up in the bow, biased towards the side we are surfing on. Yes the regular side is good, and the goofy side is not as good.

I had the honor of driving the "goofy" boat for Worlds in Nashville. After having towed riders for two days with an SV240 equipped with the SB (and seeing what it could do at wakeboard speeds after the tournament as well), I can honestly say that if I ever have another tow boat, it will have an SB. I was so impressed with what it could do at the touch of a button, and with the size, shape, and power of the surf wake during the tournament. Since I am leaning towards keeping our Enzo for a while, I am considering retrofitting our boat with the SB. Talked to Kevin at Pivotal Designs at the Nashville Boat Show this past weekend. Again...no question... I want one now!
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-15-2009, 9:55 AM Reply   
Patrick,
Do you have a bennett trim tab?
Duffy
Old    Rebecca Ort (becci)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-15-2009, 10:42 AM Reply   
I'm goofy and have only surfed behind a RH prop Enzo at the worlds....the wave was great. I've just spent 2 weeks in Florida surfing mostly the goofy side behind a 230 Enzo with the Bennett trim and no blade. It's definitely fun and rideable good enough to practice new tricks and go for airs. The regular side was so much better though. It didn't neccasarily need that much specific weight, we had it weighted differently nearly everyday it was alright.
We' re getting a Enzo for next season ourselves but because we're goofy we're getting the 240 Right Surf and the Switchblade 'cause I just liked the wave at the Worlds so much. I know we can occasionally surf the regular side it's just not going to be as good as the goofy side.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-15-2009, 10:55 AM Reply   
Any pics? Was it clean? And thanks for the input, everything will help with my decision making!
Old    Todd Gaughan (locwakeoutlawscom)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-15-2009, 3:25 PM Reply   
"Now I'm really confused. '08mon do you run a different setup than your partner/twin boat?

Enzo sac full, tab @ 100%, 550lb behind driver on enzo sac, 550lb in bow, bow sac full, center full. As many people as possible.

"For the sake of the discussion it does take us 3k goofy vs 1.5k reg, significantly more."


I didn't see this before but since the 230/240 SB or no/SB discussion is alive and well I'll respond to Surfdad.

It's accurate that we do things differently in the WO 240s, I think that's because we have different riders on each boat regularly. We do more goofy riding as dictated by the different crews. For clarity, we do the exact thing when we've towed with both boats for events.

The post above, and referenced posts are accurate for the WO crew in Dallas. It is 550 in the bow, 550 behind the driver, our Enzo sac, 100% BTT and stock bow & center.

As stated prior, we feel we don't have any issues with the goofy side and here's a pic with the same config with 6 crew members.

Upload

Picture disclaimer, although krak at's the end of the wave in this pic, there are probably 6 shots from this session and this is not the furthest he's back in the session, although he recovered no issues the further pics are suspect that show the full length of the wave and curl. I chose this one as the others would have me responding to the haters to "prove" he recovered. Even though you see more of the wave. }
Old     (packrat)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-15-2009, 6:30 PM Reply   
Loc, what kind of fat sac did you find that holds 550Lbs?

From what I have seen the Fly Highs are 400Lbs each.

Are you using a different one?
Thanks for the info and great pics!
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-15-2009, 6:51 PM Reply   
the 550lbs. comes from (1) 400lbs. ProX & (1) 155lbs. ProX brick. The pictures are thanks to everyone that came out to the WakeOutlaw events this year, it was a great 2008 season!
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-16-2009, 9:19 AM Reply   
Loc or WakeDoc,
Is your goofy or darkside wave easy to build? I've been behind boats where you can get a clean wave, but it takes hours of moving and relocating, filing sacs etc... Is it generally clean with the BTT all the way down? Thanks for all the help! Great site by the way.
Duffy
Old    Todd Gaughan (locwakeoutlawscom)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-16-2009, 10:06 AM Reply   
It's easy Duffy - fill the stock center & bow, fill enzo sac. Once the bow is full add the 400 V-Drive sac + 155 brick. As Enzo sac lower compartment fills, add 400 V-Drive sac + 155 brick behind driver on bench. Drop BTT to 100% - commence to surfing on wrong side of boat.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-16-2009, 10:51 AM Reply   
Can i build it normally without the extra v-drive sac, I have a 155 brick and there nice to move around. I like having all the ballast hidden, and I currently use hidden pop bags. I normally ride with a pretty full boat. Now here is my last question! Is the darkside wake better in your opinion than a weighted avalanche wave? IE length, height and how clean? Buying a newer boat is a big decision for me and it want to make sure I make the right one.
Old    WakeDoc (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       01-16-2009, 11:03 AM Reply   
Duffy,

I have not spent much time in a Avalanche to be able to answer your question, once again I would suggest you demo both boats with the same weight and same crew if possible. Also take along a video camera to video the different wakes and configuration on each boat. Be sure to explain the set-up on the video so you know what each one is later when viewing them.

Your ballast question, go back up in the post and review my set-up when the pictures were taken, we did not have the extra 550lbs. in the front and back, just the enzo sac, front v-sac, mid center ballast and people.
Old    Todd Gaughan (locwakeoutlawscom)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-16-2009, 11:29 AM Reply   
Doc's right - that config works perfect in their depth/crew and what they are looking for. I was providing an answer to Surfdad on our differences in the use of the 240.

Pop bags combo Enzo sac will provide the results with hidden ballast and accomplish the same. You may struggle to get 550lb under an Enzo sac behind the driver, I recommend lead plates so you can fill the Enzo shaft. Keep in mind Doc's pics represent a solid goofy wave with only the Enzo sac on the starboard.

The advice around demoing them both and providing multiple configurations in each both to help you make your decisions is right on.

For us, our crews and goals, overall performance and wave shape/size/definition for our elevation and lake & river depths the best wakesurf boat available was the 240 for what WE needed. On WO there are reviews and discussion around the testing of the 230/240 in 2007/2008, Doc performed most of it and can speak first hand on the gaps between them, primarily storage and and performance differences with the chosen black scorpion between 230/240.

I too have no data on the avalanche but if you're looking for the best surfboat (with focus on goofy) IMO it's the Enzo - if that's the goal. That is my statement, not of WO or CCC and as an owner regardless of what other Centurion haters (Dennis & Crew) state. I personally found no better machine.

Just take a look - the so called "Right surf is necessary" and "Standard Enzo sux on the goofy side" statements is ridiculous. Dennis "accidentally" ( above Sanger pics to pump that as "perfect" on both sides. As a heelside rider, or goofy rider I'd take that backass-wards Enzo running a goofy wave over the above Sanger pics! Krak is 6' tall and that wave is taller/longer than the beloved Sanger wave. Plus Dennis' pics have a child and shorter female riding a lot closer showing the height, Krak's 6' at the white wash and it's knee-high. Analyze the pics closely.

Disclaimer: If we were a goofy crew 70%+, I would opt for right surf as it's known for us, it consumes more weight = gas ($) to get the Enzo standard to deliver a goofy wave.

Demo them all - ignore the haters
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-16-2009, 12:11 PM Reply   
Thanks for answering my questions! And for the record I am regular, but 95% of my crew is goofy(especially the girlfriend), so I want an awesome regular wake and good-great darkside wake. What is an enzo shaft? Does the enzo sac not run all the way forward under the seats? Could I have a custom enzo sac with the finger longer? I will prob have to have a boat shipped, so demoing might be harder. I might demo locally and buy from somewhere else. Thanks again, you guys rock. If anyone is ever in Sandpoint Idaho I will the beers and get you some pulls.

Duffy
Old    Todd Gaughan (locwakeoutlawscom)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-16-2009, 12:17 PM Reply   
I was referring the shaft as the sac that runs from the locker up the drivers seat. I am concerned that you would not be able to add popbags under the sac without losing some sac space. Flat lead plates would be best. Inland surfer uses these plates on the regular side (near batteries) I believe. We have enough batteries no additional weight was required there.


You cannot customize the sac in the "finger/shaft" it does go all the way up. Our customizations were focused on fill/drain count (4 pump feeds) and location for drain and additional emergency valves for Tsunami application. Safety was in mind with the additions.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-16-2009, 12:36 PM Reply   
Flat lead plates would be best

Yeehaw! Tractor weights. The weights sold by John Deere are bulky. Forklift and tractor sales/repair shops will have weights that look like this:

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1127562935037363248tXtZVq

They typically will fit in in the void under the bench seat and similar locations.

"finger/shaft" only from Loc. :-)

crappy picture I linked to is the reason for th eedit!

(Message edited by surfdad on January 16, 2009)
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       01-16-2009, 12:40 PM Reply   
So would I add lead to both sides under the seats? I actually put the pop bags in the void in the hull. I don't know the exact term, but behind the back rests were cup holders and speakers are installed. It's typically a few inches wide and is where wiring and cables are run. I have four hunderd pounds hidden there on my boat currently.
Old    Todd Gaughan (locwakeoutlawscom)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-16-2009, 12:47 PM Reply   
You like that Jeff :-)

Duffy - The Enzo sac really fills up the space well, you can add some but not much. I think the thickness of the bags (40lbs) will bulk up quick when you think about adding 13-15 bags there. You will not need to both sides.

Here's my recommendation, not WO/CCC for modifications on top of stock:

Regular
Port Surf: Enzo Sac BTT @ 20%
Star Surf: Enzo Sac 550 Bow / 550 Driver BTT @ 100%

Right Surf
Port Surf: Enzo Sac 550 Bow / 550 Driver BTT @ 100%
Star Surf: Enzo Sac BTT @ 20%

You only have to double up the other side so to speak to account for the non desired surf side.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       01-16-2009, 1:05 PM Reply   
"non desired surf side"

Welcome to the January meeting of Darkside annoymous, where we will give you the tools necessary to say the "D" word. Let's start by introducing ourselves. You there with the funny haircut, why don't you start.

Loc lumbers to his feet. "Hello, my name is Todd, I'm know by the nickname Loc and I have an aversion to saying....dddd...daarrrrrr....ddddddddaaaaaaaaaaar rrr....aaaaaaarrrrrrghhhhhhh (breaks down crying) I can't do it!"

The group gathers around offering moral support. "Take deep breaths and think about Enzos!", several offer. :-)
Old    Todd Gaughan (locwakeoutlawscom)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-16-2009, 1:19 PM Reply   
I stand by my original posts - there is no reason to be surfing on the wrong side of the boat.

I think all the dddd...daarrrrrr....ddddddddaaaaaaaaaaarrr...Errr screw it - the wrong side riders can take a note from Marks style. He knows he's wrong, and to make up for it, he surfs on the right side of the boat!

Old    Rebecca Ort (becci)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-16-2009, 1:48 PM Reply   
I'm not saying the goofy side behind a regular enzo is bad at all. just from what I've experienced even with starboard ballast full 400 in the starboard locker 400 on the floor behind the driver and 400 in the bow plus a few lead bars although it looks great it just lacks power. The power with half the weight on the regular side was always twice the fun. I will definately try your WO setup on the regular side of our Right Surf Enzo in April it'd be nice to do some more backside and switch frontside riding.

Have you already got new 'twins', Wakeoutlaws?
Old    Todd Gaughan (locwakeoutlawscom)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-16-2009, 1:51 PM Reply   
We're waiting for you too post your designs on WO right now! Let's see this 09 design.

PS: JUMP SEAT Becci!
Old    Rebecca Ort (becci)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-16-2009, 2:10 PM Reply   
I've got a design : how about a red boat with a white cross ; I'll be there to test surf the wave
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       01-16-2009, 6:15 PM Reply   
Loc,
With all due respect I have never said that I hate Enzo's. Quite the contrary I have completely enjoyed every time I have surfed behind an Enzo. My experience is somewhat limited. The only times I have surfed behind an Enzo have been at Centurion sponsored events. Centurion Spring Break contest twice and I was the test rider for both sides at the World's at Lake Yosemite. I am very thankful that Centurion has promoted the sport I truly love for all these years. For that we all should be grateful. I do own a Sanger V215 and think very highly of my boat and the V237 as wakesurf boats. To each his own and I would not condemn anyone with any boat. Well, I might condemn any boat pulling a tube and the idiot driver sending rollers everywhere. I do feel bad for people who are having problems setting up there boats but that's what these threads are here to do.
Old    Patrick Steed (steedracer)      Join Date: Jul 2007       01-18-2009, 10:32 AM Reply   
Duffy, sorry for the late response. Probably not much help,compared to the volume and content of other posts here. To your question, ours is an '04, with the standard manual wakeplate (never used).

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