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Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-11-2008, 11:25 AM Reply   
I've noticed a lot of riders have their own little tricks that they just beat to death... not trying to say thats all they can do or anything, because all of the tricks they do are better than what I can but does anyone else notice from vid to vid or every hit of a double up contest they do the same thing... .... same flip/spin/grab and it kinda just get old -- i'll skip a part in a vid just because of this...I know what trick they'll do, 15 times.
anyone else have this problem
Old    Quinn Silvernale (qjeezy34)      Join Date: Oct 2008       12-11-2008, 11:28 AM Reply   
Ya man I feel ya on that half the time I would rather see a huge super slow backside 180 off the double up than a signature 900 or something. Then again I cant do a nine so I may feel different when I get there... but ya man Im with you on this one haha
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-11-2008, 11:33 AM Reply   
I specifically can think of Andrew A's roll-2-revert/mobe with the tweaked grab.... i've seen that happen soooo many times in so many different things
Old    Inigo Montoya (eyedvride)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-11-2008, 11:37 AM Reply   
not that it's not a sick trick but Malinoski's nuclear ts roll 2 blind is in every run and every vid too. I think this is why I like watching these guys just free-ride.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-11-2008, 11:48 AM Reply   
Malinoski's glides are shown like, 57 times in every one of his video sections...
Old    John Haile (waterdork88)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-11-2008, 12:03 PM Reply   
i dont mind when someone beats a trick to death, mainly because i'd rather watch a move thats controlled than someone try a trick... try it again... try it again and stick it... then work on their next trick... i figure anyone could do that with enough tries

in a double up contest when i see malinoski do either a ts 900 or a hs bs 7... and he keeps doing it over and over again... i dont know but that impresses me more with each time he does it
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-11-2008, 1:10 PM Reply   
I hear ya, I get so sick of the PWT runs (better since drive) but before it was always KGB, Crow Mobe, Tantrum to Blind, Sw. HS Mobe, TS R2b, HS BS 5, TS FS 7. Double up= HS BS 7/TS FS 9. Even in videos it seems like the thing to do is a TS R2b as well as Ole TS FS 7s, HS BS 5s, and Tanny2bs. Those are all cool tricks, but Id much rather see someone do their specialty tricks instead of the cookie cutter pro tricks. IE Ricky Gs indy Pete Roses, Harfs O/A TS BS 5s, Ruck's mute mobe, Bradley's BS 7, and Randall's wrapped tricks.
Old    david (dnp33)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-11-2008, 5:09 PM Reply   
do variations of tricks count?
cause in the truth about half of ben greenwoods tricks are BS 180's.
Old    P C (pc332)      Join Date: Jan 2007       12-11-2008, 6:39 PM Reply   
I agree with you Nick T, Andrew A was the first to come to my mind also. It does seem like he does that trick in every video he's in.
Old    Luke Johnson (luke_j)      Join Date: Jul 2008       12-11-2008, 6:44 PM Reply   
The OA TSBS 5 is gettin a lotta press lately too. seems like everyones got one and they're really beating that on eto death.
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-11-2008, 7:25 PM Reply   
I think you guys are forgetting that there is a pretty small number of tricks in wakeboarding and repetition in videos is inevitable. Pros have incredibly hard tricks on lock, when you are one of a few people that does a ridiculously large and grabbed the whole way mobe 5 like Andrew, you break it out often. Pros have to set themselves apart and when they have a trick that makes their riding unique, you will see it often.
Old    Peter Ward (petew)      Join Date: Dec 2008       12-12-2008, 4:41 AM Reply   
12 honkeys!!!!! rocks still today!!! i still watch that and am blown away especialy darren shapiros section! crazy off axis! and park's second section in shafted awesome! i dont like watching comp runs so much either! same time! always the same winners! would be nice if landing in the flats and going big were taken into account a bit more! a uk rider ben hitch used to go massive and still pack in all his tricks! he used to turn real early (not wait for the slack) take the jolt from the rope and hammer it back to the wakes! ill try and find some clips of it!
Old    Peter Ward (petew)      Join Date: Dec 2008       12-12-2008, 4:49 AM Reply   
aaaaahhhhh cant find much decent boat riding on him just a bit of cable srry!"!"!"??!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz5XNCgebcs
Old    Luke Johnson (luke_j)      Join Date: Jul 2008       12-12-2008, 5:42 AM Reply   
peter, your a pretty enthusiastic fella aren't you?
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-12-2008, 6:18 AM Reply   
I'm completely down for seeing the same tricks in different sections, that's fine by me. It's when I watch a video section, and I see the trick done 38 times in it's entirety, it gets a little old. Now, when someone cuts the trick up, and then just gives you glimpses of each one, that's cool, because the editing there makes it seem slightly less repetitive. It's understandable when it's a signature trick as well, but still, throw in some other stuff, not just glides, or 5s, or whatever. These guys all have a big enough bag of tricks to not have something repeated more than two times in their section. I know personally that that is one thing that I was trying to avoid in Gauntlet, was too many repeat tricks in a section, but with some of the guys in the club, that wasn't possible because they don't have a big enough bag of tricks. But there were a few who actually did a bunch of different stuff and it showed. The three big sections of the video all have a bunch of different stuff (although one of them has a few repeats, just because he enjoys the tricks a lot, but it does have a hammer or two), either tweaking a grab differently, doing something switch, or grabbing a spin in a different way. The section just looks better when you don't repeat a trick too often. Just my two cents.
Old    eric (eas)      Join Date: Nov 2001       12-12-2008, 6:20 AM Reply   
all those guys from gloucteshire are....





j/k peter!
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-12-2008, 12:37 PM Reply   
You know this thread took an interesting turn. I expected to hear complaints about Mobys and tootsies and whatnot. But suddenly people are saying that they are bored of BS 7 and HS 9's that is craziness. Those are some of the biggest hammers in this sport. I bet that under 50 people can do a HS 9 and evenless can do a bs 7. I think that what people are actually trying to say is they are bored of the riders they are watching, not so much the move, but I may be wrong.

In my crew for example I ride with the same homies enough to know exactly what trick they are about to do from the mirror before they even hit the wake. hearing people say that they are bored of TS Nuke Rolls to Blind is crazy, that trick came about maybe 2 years ago and people are already bored of it. I would suggest spending more time riding and progessing towards learning these hammers than complaining about being bored at watching them. I can tell you first hand that it takle months of crashing to have some of these hammers on lock, we should respect them not judge them.

Sorry for the rant.

BTW Big Heavy was right on the money as usual!
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-12-2008, 12:46 PM Reply   
I have no problem with mutliple video sections that have the same trick, its when it's the same section and it shows the exact same thing over and over. Big spins are awesome, and I love to watch them, just not repeated so many times in a video that it's like, what's next. That typically also has nothing to do with the rider, and it's all about the editor. Sometimes they just put the same trick in a section too many times. I can watch a buddy ride and throw down the same trick repeatedly, and as long as he's having fun, it's awesome.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       12-12-2008, 3:00 PM Reply   
Agreed, Andy.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-12-2008, 3:45 PM Reply   
Okay, just watched Tino's section in The Truth, and he has like, 5 toe 9s in it. All of which are sick. Because they're all slightly different, either off the d-up or with a grab.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-12-2008, 4:03 PM Reply   
If someone does a toe 9 but grabs diff, w2w, double up.... a little change up makes it okay, but I do not want to see 5 straight ts 9's in a part.... I don't want to see 15 BS180's unless each is different.... ts, hs, switch, diff grabs, etc etc.... but when the SAME EXACT trick gets done a lot it gets old....

double half cab roll, awesome trick but it has been the same since I saw it in Shaft... its hard, its cool, its better than I'll ever be but I don't need to see it again unless its getting grabs, or thrown HUUUGE.

Andrew's mobe grab -- old
double half cab roll - old
ts fs OA 5 -- old (not done a lot but everyone does this trick)
Whirly 5 -- everyone does it almost exactly the same, just started getting grabbed
HS BS 5's -- done by everyone, a lot, rarely grabbed
Straight Tanny-blind -- yawn


And some the tricks that are "new"...no way, go watch park's section in 12 honkeys....he does everything people wow about today, 5 years ago
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-12-2008, 4:23 PM Reply   
Quote-

"If someone does a toe 9 but grabs diff, w2w, double up.... a little change up makes it okay, but I do not want to see 5 straight ts 9's in a part.... I don't want to see 15 BS180's unless each is different.... ts, hs, switch, diff grabs, etc etc.... but when the SAME EXACT trick gets done a lot it gets old.... "

Maybe we should be biatching at the cinmatographer not the riders.

Quote-

"Andrew's mobe grab -- old
double half cab roll - old
ts fs OA 5 -- old (not done a lot but everyone does this trick)
Whirly 5 -- everyone does it almost exactly the same, just started getting grabbed
HS BS 5's -- done by everyone, a lot, rarely grabbed
Straight Tanny-blind -- yawn"

Andrews Nose Mobe, -- WTF he has that on Crazy lock, super tech. Back mobes are stupid hard.
double half cab roll -- Again rediculously hard.
As for the rest of the moves:
ts fs OA 5 -- old (not done a lot but everyone does this trick)
Whirly 5 -- everyone does it almost exactly the same, just started getting grabbed
HS BS 5's -- done by everyone, a lot, rarely grabbed
Straight Tanny-blind -- yawn

These are wakeboarding staples. They should be on every single riders list of tricks to learn as they progress. Saying they are old and boring is like tell snowboarders not to do Rodeo 5's or 90 rolls. Or like telling Skater not to do Mctwists in the pipe. They are staples of the sport. They are all tricks that EVERY single rider should aspire to do. W/O the ts fs OA 5 I would have never learned a 7. We need these tricks. They are as important as the raley is to the sport. And BS 5's oh man donít get me started that trick is a hammer for sure. I had 100+ days of whiplash before I got the privilege or riding out of one, then 50 days before I got to do it again. To have a trick like that on lock legitimizes a rider, it places them in a category that few riders will every accomplish.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-12-2008, 4:48 PM Reply   
Exactly Andy, it's not the rider's fault that a trick repeats in a section, it's all about the editor. These pros give these guys so much to work with and when you repeat a trick, well, yeah. You said it best.

I agree with Andy here the most. Seeing the trick 2 or 3 times in a section is sick, beyond that, it enters the realm of the editing staff of the video to not put more in there.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-12-2008, 7:10 PM Reply   
all those trick i posted are great to have and know/learn.... but I don't want to see pro's throwing stuff my buddies and I do...

it gives me nothing to look up at.... they are pro's because they are better - thats what I want to see

It isn't just editors - in double up contests and contests and whatever, I just hate seeing the same old same old.... I understand there is a limited number of tricks a rider can, I understand the vids aren't put together by them (all the time) but seriously Andy you cannot say you see some tricks from pro's and are just like, "oh that again."
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-12-2008, 7:41 PM Reply   
In contests riders are going to put down their biggest hammers to score as high as they can. There's no real point in trying to diversify a competition ride to make it look different from other ones, because plain and simple, when you compete, you're trying to win.
Old    Adam Van Dyke (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       12-12-2008, 8:28 PM Reply   
Andy, the reason I say Im getting tired of BS 7s and TS R2bs is because they are fad tricks. Thats my issue...theyre awesome super hard tricks but its like one guy really starts putting that trick on the map, then his (pro) friend/riding buddy decides he needs to learn it and so on...its the cool trick to do, so every pro learns it. Even some amateurs (I got friends doin BS 5s and 7s now) Then its not so special. Im not against riders doing hard tricks, even repeating them frequently, as long as its unique. I could watch Adkisons Mobe 5s all day. Same with Bradley's HS BS 7. Again, I just wish that instead of everyone copying the latest fashionable trick, that people try to find their own. IE: why dont more people start doing Bee Stings (Grabbed Vulcan), Dum dums, 313s, frontflip to blinds, or invent new tricks? Those are all crazy hard tricks that are so cool. Id be so stoked to see a video with today's riders putting a modern/personal flair on those tricks vs. copying the latest fad trick and doing it exactly the same. If they wanna learn that trick, sweet, its a sick trick, but Id rather see something fresh for the majority of the video section.

With all that being said, when I say I have a problem...Im exaggerating to a degree. Seeing pros even just doing grabs is awesome, I just dont like it as much as the other stuff I mentioned. I could watch a straight TS 9 for a long time and still enjoy it, just not as much as a Method Moby Dick 5.

And for the record: HS BS 5s are still my favorite trick. I cant wait till I can stick one of my own. Ill have no problem repeating that trick over and over like a pro video section. Sick looking trick.
Old    schooledrider (rmcronin)      Join Date: Aug 2002       12-13-2008, 7:03 AM Reply   
Why don't you make a video of yourself and just watch that if you want to complain about watching pros? Videos are an opportunity for pros to express themselves doing the tricks "they" want to do, not what they need to do in a contest.
Old    wakegump (uppledup17)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-13-2008, 7:45 AM Reply   
Totally agree with Andy on this one. I never get tired of seeing any trick to be honest. Watching videos and tricks gets me pumped to ride and get better.Thats why we ride and watch videos for that matter, the enjoyment of it. I could care less how many times someone does a certain trick, fad or not. I mean if you watch a Watson section, it looks similar from video to video but it never gets old. I can watch him do ole after ole. It may be the same tricks but damn it looks so good, it never gets old.
Same goes for Andrew A. If I could throw a hammer like a Mobe 5, a trick that I am known for, hell ya I am going to throw it in every vid.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-13-2008, 10:41 AM Reply   
"Andy, the reason I say Im getting tired of BS 7s and TS R2bs is because they are fad tricks."

Fadf tricks? What the Heck. There is nothing fad about a BS 7. Its a hammer. Super tech. I can see why you would say a TS R2b is a Fad, but now it is quickly becoming a staple in a pro contest run. That is like Saying a Tootsie is a fad. The only "Fad" trick in Wakeboarding is the Raley because that is the trick that every none wakeboarder thinks of when you say wakeboarding. That is the trick that defines wakeboarding to the masses, liek it or not.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-13-2008, 10:58 AM Reply   
Been there done that schooled. I hate watching myself.

My point is is that a hammer like that should be shown once or twice at either a key point in the video (beginning, up tempo spot in the video), or towards the end, otherwise it stops seeming like a hammer. When a trick is shown so many times in ONE video section that it stops seeming like a big trick, then it's overdone. If it's in every video section, I'm cool with that, it's what I'm expecting, but repeating the same trick over and over in one section is what I'm talking about, and that relates directly to the producer of the video and NOT the rider, unless the rider is getting involved with the production of the section and critiquing it, telling you what he wants in and out as the section progresses.

I'm going to use Tino's couple of 9s in the truth. The first one is ts, and is shot in the super slowmo, and it's how the section begins. It's a hammer, and it is shown like it's a hammer. It shows up one more time. He has two hs bs 5s in it, shown back to back, but from different perspectives. The final 9 is a grabbed heelside 9, and it looks sick. His section is an example of the perfect use of hammers. Not too many clustered together, and not too many in general. He has all of his hammers in their twice, which is perfect. It gives you the chance to watch the trick mutliple times to see it, but it doesn't overplay the trick and make it seem as though it's just another one in his section. Perfectly done in the editing room, in my opinion.
Old    Andy Nintzel (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004       12-14-2008, 10:51 AM Reply   
Again we are talking about the vidoe editing not the rider.

BTW the last nine that tino does in his section in the truth is the coolest trick ever captured on film. Shows the true tech difficulty of the trick.
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-14-2008, 11:01 AM Reply   
I know, it's sick as hell. I don't think I ever really payed enough attention to his section until this topic, so thanks for bringing this up Nick. The more that I've watched it, the more and more I like Tino's riding, something I never really payed much attention to before.

Again, that's what I've been saying all along, is it's not the riders fault that hammers wind up seeming overdone.

Apparently we agree on the subject here Andy, there's just been an overall confusion of everything in the world here.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       12-14-2008, 11:14 AM Reply   
If I go out to film for a vid and throw 150 of trick A, 2 of trick B, 2 of trick C, 2 of trick D, and so on.... how do you think my part will look?

clearly that isn't the case because we all know the pro's bags of tricks are crazy deep but if you have 1 trick that you can do and do well every time you'll throw it a lot to try and get shots.... whether it be good light, cool angles, just dumb luck of a shot most of the stuff that turns out happens to be the trick you throw more often than the others..... the editors only have what the rider gives them
Old    Nick Schrein (wakeboardern1)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-14-2008, 12:12 PM Reply   
I can guarantee though that the rider gives them a lot more than that trick that they do a lot. The amount of time spent filming is insane. Push process had over 3400 gigs of video. In comparison, Gauntlet, of a similar length, had only 165 gigs. There was plenty of video, and very very very few repeats of tricks. Hell, one guy's section in Gauntlet is made up of 2 sets of his, and 1 set of another guy's, and it still doesn't repeat tricks other than a toe five, and toe backside 3, from different angles. I can guarantee that there is plenty of footage not to overuse shots in a video, it's just some filmmakers do that, whether it be because they don't notice the existence of the other shots (I found a whole lot of unused footage that was really good and switched it out with some of the crappier stuff in sections), or they just don't notice when they put something in 5 times.

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