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Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2008, 3:57 AM Reply   
I'm looking to spend around mid 20k. It seems I can get a well used 04 X2, a lightly used 01 x-star, a lightly used 01-02 super air nautique, or a 01 X-30.

Im looking for a big wake that isn't hard to setup. Which boat is going to be best setup stock?

Also is an X30 going to eat up a lot more gas than a X2 and how much more money will it cost me in gas?

If I'm more concerned with the wake than the inside of the boat what is everyone's opinion on taking a high hour boat so I can get a more expensive boat for less?
Old    all eyez on me (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       11-03-2008, 7:11 AM Reply   
the 04 x2 and the super air are notorious for having the best wakes in the game. you cant go wrong with either. its going to be hard finding a x30 in the mid 20's.
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       11-03-2008, 7:17 AM Reply   
x2 would be my choice depending on condition.
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       11-03-2008, 7:25 AM Reply   
Super Air
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-03-2008, 7:59 AM Reply   
I'd agree with the above, either Super Air or the X-1. They are both incredible boats that throw amazing wakes with very little effort. I guess the only thing I'll add is that depending on your skill level, the Super Air can be a tough wake to get used to. Personally I think it is a very advanced wake when loaded. Obviously you can tone it down with your distribution but IMO, the X-1 might be a little more user friendly.
Old    Chqwakeboarder (chqwakeboarder)      Join Date: May 2006       11-03-2008, 8:40 AM Reply   
^^^^I agree^^^^ It also has to do with the condition of the boats.
Old    K.B.C.            11-03-2008, 8:50 AM Reply   
another vote for the SAN or 205/X-2/X-star, both are great boats with very good wakes. The SAN will probably have a better stock weight and takes a little less weight, but you can't go wrong with either.

If you're most concerned with the wake than those two boats should be your main options.
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-03-2008, 9:03 AM Reply   
The SAN will be the most efficient in terms of ballast to build a macking wake. The X2 X-star will throw a great wake, but they like lots of weight.

Do you surf? That vintage SAN will throw a better wave goofy side but to be honest I was not terribly impressed with the X-star surf wave either.
Old    WakeViolater (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       11-03-2008, 10:01 AM Reply   
^^good question. if you are goofy go with the super air, for sure. Id even look for a 1994-1997 super sport. Re do the ballast and you have the best wake in the industry.

The mastercraft x-1/x-2/x-star (same boat with multiple name changes over the years) is a good choice too, and I think the right boat will depend on you preference of goofy or regular.
Old    C.I.E..... Evan (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       11-03-2008, 10:06 AM Reply   
I love the X2. One of my favorite wakes of all times. I also like the SAN. If there was one complaint I have about SAN's it's how sensitive they are to moving weight around. They tend to be very picky about side to side weighting.
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2008, 12:29 PM Reply   
Well Im goofy but not in the way you mean

I don't wake surf, atleast yet.

How much more efficient is a SAN going to be versus a Xstar? This should be important given high gas prices in the summer.

Do you think the steep wake of the SAN might be too much for a beginner like myself? Someone on another forum said it might throw me off balence easily while trying to do tricks which would make sense.
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2008, 12:31 PM Reply   
Im also trying to figure out the differences between the 2004 X2 and the 2001 Xstar as they are about the same price but the X2 has a lot of wear (Xstar in great shape).
Old    Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       11-03-2008, 12:42 PM Reply   
san only needs about 1500lbs for a great wake...
x-star needs 2200+ to make it great.

You can mellow out the SAN wake with lots of bow weight.... just run like 50/50 weight or
60/40 (rear/front) and it is FAAAR less steep

Here is our 210 with ~700 front/~900rear

Upload
Old    Alan Slabaugh (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       11-03-2008, 12:45 PM Reply   
X-Star/X2/X1 is a great boat but the 01-02 SAN is sweet too. I am bias towards the the SAN because of the PCM GT-40, that engine is a beast. I had to choose between a '03 X2 (30rs for 36k) and a '01 SANTE (600 hrs for 30k) and I went for the SANTE, it just seemed so much more solid on the water plus that engine is great.
Old    Greers Ferry Lake Marine & ATV (greers_ferry_boats)      Join Date: Dec 2007       11-03-2008, 12:46 PM Reply   
The only difference should be the tower.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-03-2008, 12:47 PM Reply   
Differences in the 2004 X2 and 2001 Xstar.

They have similar towers but the Racks are much nicer on the '04. They should be clamp style racks vs bungee racks on the 01.

The ballast was done different. In 01 it used 3 thru hull fittings on the transom and 6 bilge pump style pumps. The 04 has the thru hulls on the bottom so you can fill while moving. Also they switched to using reversible jabsco pumps.

Other differences would be the engine. There was a 330hp motor in 01 as an upgrade and the 04 upgrade would be the 350hp MCX. I believe the standard in both was the 310hp.

How are each of the boats optioned out? I suppose some of the differences are just newer more custom components.
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2008, 1:49 PM Reply   
What is the difference between a 2000 Xstar and a 2004 X2 or 2001 Xstar? I found a screaming deal on a 2000 Xstar but it is a repo and needs work.

Here is the link
http://www.boattrader.com/find/listing/2000-Mastercraft-X-Star-93968784

the price is just a starting bid price but I imagine in the end it will be a good deal.

Thanks again for yall's help
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-03-2008, 2:03 PM Reply   
It would be the same as the 2001 but the tower on the 2000 is terrible. I think a lot of the 2000's only came with front ballast as well? That boat looks like a nightmare. I suppose if you would be willing to take a chance though it may pay off. It has perfect pass. For 2-3k you could put on a new tower. Adding rear ballast is easy. A cover can range anywhere from 300-1200 depending how good of one you want. I would be really scared of the engine and transmission though.
Old    Dizzy Jenkins (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       11-03-2008, 2:05 PM Reply   
3 piece hatch, more factory ballast, different tower. Thats about it. xstars are fing amazing. I have a 2000 xstar for sale, but im not going to take 12k for it lol!
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-03-2008, 3:10 PM Reply   
yoyo, i'd watch out, that boat looks like it has seen some salt use. Not that its a deal breaker, but you want to be able to go through it with a fine tooth comb.
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-03-2008, 3:11 PM Reply   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Mastercraft-prostar-205vrs-immaculate-condition_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1207Q7c 39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1308QQ_trksidZp3 286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem150306887065QQitemZ150306 887065
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-03-2008, 3:22 PM Reply   
I have been keeping my eye on that 205V. With all the stuff on that boat that is a smoking deal. The only thing it needs is PP. I actually prefer the classic look of the 205 than the X2 anyways.
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2008, 4:12 PM Reply   
yea good deal on the 205 but not really my style.

DJ how much do you want for yours and where are you located?
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-03-2008, 8:22 PM Reply   
The only thing I don't like about that 205v is the racks. That was an unfortunate product of Mastercraft's innovation process. We passed on multiple boats because they had those racks. As far as the perfect pass, meh. Including our current '04 X2, none of our boats have ever had it and the few people that drive my boat can do without it. It is a nice feature though, just not needed.
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2008, 9:15 PM Reply   
How do you like your 04 X2 and if you have had a xstar what year and how did it compare, or to any of the other boats I have asked about?
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2008, 9:21 PM Reply   
Are the boards hard to get out of the racks or do they just not hold them right?
Old    Dizzy Jenkins (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       11-03-2008, 9:37 PM Reply   
yoyo I'm asking 24k. She's in Ausin
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2008, 9:48 PM Reply   
Does anyone know if a 2003 Tige 24v is good for wakeboarding?

Bad on gas?
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-03-2008, 9:51 PM Reply   
DJ I would consider it but the tower is a deal breaker. I'm getting this boat with wakeboarding in mind. Thanks for the offer.
Old    AtTheLake (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-04-2008, 8:03 AM Reply   
If you are a new rider, the SAN table (wake) is tougher to learn on. If you land short it is one of the most punishing tables out there because it is so steep....like landing short on a steep double in MX. Lots of people have learned behind them and in the end people like whatever they get used to so I do not think it is a deal breaker. If you are just learning to go wake to wake, don't put much ballast in either boat and as you get better you can add more weight.
Old    Dizzy Jenkins (dizzyj)      Join Date: Jul 2003       11-04-2008, 8:16 AM Reply   
yo yo,

no worries, let me know if you change your mind tho. I am curious tho, You dont like the old school zero flex tower, or you thing that its not the best for wakeboarding?

I ride regularly with Mitch Bergsma (riders profile here on this site a month or so ago), and its one of his favorite boats to ride behind.
Old    Paul (phat_in_cincy)      Join Date: May 2003       11-04-2008, 9:58 AM Reply   
Man...the SAN and 205V hull are my favorite wakes. We have the '04 205V and my buddy has the '01 SAN. I get really excited when we head up to see them and ride the SAN, but the 205V is a little more gentle on the old knee joints!

If I had to pick b/w the 2, I could flip a coin and be perfectly happy with whichever won out.

Don't be afraid to look for a 205V hull (same as the X1, previous X2, and original X-Star). You might find it cheaper and be able build it up (aftermarket) to your likings. Fun projects!
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-04-2008, 10:03 AM Reply   
Paul, I still think your 205 is the best looking boat on wakeworld. It is pure class. That is why I like that one that is in the ebay link so much. Yours is better colors though.
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-04-2008, 3:26 PM Reply   
Agreed, I was looking for one like Paul's when boat shopping, they just look good, but an '04 never came up in the right price range. Definitely one of my favorite boats though.

yoyo, the racks actually hold the board pretty well. To my knowledge, it's the only rack that clamps the boards in that way. The reasons that I didn't like them is that they stick out pretty far. Our boat's parking spot and the road to our lake is pretty tight, so I could see ripping one of them off. I was also concerned that since they were only made for about 3/4 of a year, parts may eventually by scarce/non-existent. All that stuff aside, MC stuff is top notch, but stuff happens you know. I looked into modifying the tower to fit the newer style clamps, but you're better off buying the top half of the tower.

Another thing that pushed me towards the '04 was the Jabsco pumps. I believe that was the first year that they changed from 6 bilge style pumps to 3 reversibles. The bilge style pumps hardly compare to the Jabscos, IMO.

Like Paul mentioned, that hull has been through multiple name changes. The only difference you will see is tower styles, interior changes, and the older boats will only have center ballast.

PM me if you have any other questions.

Here's a picture to help with your decision... Upload
Old    wakeking (4x4chevyguy)      Join Date: Oct 2008       11-04-2008, 5:31 PM Reply   
I would go with the super air It much much better of a boat and the best wakeboarding boat out
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-04-2008, 6:59 PM Reply   
You should be able to get your hands on an '03-'05 super air in your price range. But, IMO, I would not go any older than that though. For a few reasons...

disclaimer: i have multiple family members/friends that own varying years of the 210. It was also on my list when shopping for boats. I've gone through them and know them pretty well, so I'm not pulling this stuff out of my butt.

00-02 had the digital gauges. I think they lasted through the first tank of gas in the boat. I personally haven't been in a boat where they either don't work or they've been replaced with the newer style.

I'm not sure when/if it was resolved, but the earlier models in that year range had some wiring issues. My cousin has a '99 and from day one there has always been an electrical bug. I believe it has to do with not having heavy enough gauge wire from the batteries to the distribution block. Someone else may be able to elaborate more, as I am not an expert. I just learned not to turn too much stuff on at one time or perfect pass goes nuts.

from 97-01 or 02, the boat had really wide gunnels. Not a big deal, but in 03 they made them about 1/2 the size, which gave quite a bit more interior room.

again the board racks, aka flight clips, were/are a horrible design. I think correct craft employed a team of elementary school kids to design them. IF you can get 2 boards in one rack, they constantly bang against one another. I've always found the bungees to be a little long as well.

I think the story on the ballast pumps is the same as the MC. '04 they got jabsco pumps. In those earlier models you have to open and close vents to fill or empty tanks. I believe it made some kind of vacuum lock on them. Not a huge deal, but annoying if you forget to open or close them.

Stock for stock, I like the 210 wake better, but with weight/people I like the 205v/x2. Neither one is going to leave you in the middle of the lake.

Sorry for the long posts, but it helps to have educated answers and find things out before you buy the boat.
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-05-2008, 2:15 AM Reply   
Im thinking of going with the X2 because a SAN is less common and especially a 03-05. They seem to go for more money than the mastercrafts.

Thanks for breaking it down for me Justin. I will probably re-visit the SAN idea after I get a little more familiar with the X2. It will for sure be a 03 and up. I will say you did make me think twice about it though.
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-05-2008, 5:26 PM Reply   
Cool man. The best thing to do would be to find some folks that have either boat to take you out and throw some gas money their way. If you're here in Florida I'd be glad to take you out.
Old    E.J. (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-05-2008, 5:49 PM Reply   
I didn't read the entire thread, so don't know if you changed your price range.... If not...Justin, you think a '03 to '05 SAN in very good condition, can be found for mid 20's? I don't know, really asking....that seems about 10K shy of what I assumed.....

BIG difference between the interior space between the '01 SAN and '02 +.....it is the change that Justin mentions above with the gunnels becoming half the size.

Unless you need the extra room, I see NO REASON to get the X-30 over either of the other boats, regardless of year(205V hulled MC vs the SS hull CC)
Old    Justin (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-05-2008, 6:29 PM Reply   
E.J., I actually misread the price. I realized it after I posted that long thing and never went back and mentioned that.

I'll second what E.J. said about the X-30. The ss/205v hull are proven wake making hull. The x-30 is a maristar with a tower. Not to mention prior to 05 or 06, they resembled a whale.
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-05-2008, 9:55 PM Reply   
yea I thought I found a SAN 06 for $30K which sounds too good to be true and it was one of those spam things you find on autotrader all the time. It annoys me that on auto boat and cycle trader they allow this abuse to go on. They just want the money and they could careless if the people that are supporting their site are getting spammed as long as they make money. I even tried make a complaint through their feedback system and the ads never go away.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-06-2008, 7:58 AM Reply   
Yo yo, here are a couple good deals from the Seattle area if you are willing to travel.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/boa/907400925.html

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/899262893.html

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/boa/899834337.html

Portland Area boats

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/boa/907590938.html

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/boa/899953945.html

http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/boa/901124893.html

http://portland.craigslist.org/grg/boa/906121934.html

http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/boa/906041030.html

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/907607423.html
Old    Small Light (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-06-2008, 11:13 AM Reply   
It always makes my cry when I see a '04 boat with less than 100 hours. That poor boat needs to be used!! The only way I'll ever buy a boat!! Talk about a steal!

Edit:
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/boa/906041030.html

I'd get that one!! Beautiful boat.


(Message edited by stephan on November 06, 2008)
Old    Tommy G (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-06-2008, 11:50 AM Reply   
yo yo, if you are at all interested in a SAN, mine is listed in the classifieds. It's an '02 in great condition. It's got the extra space improvements discussed, and I've replaced the digital gauges with analog ones, done through the dealer.

Great boat, it's been very good to me!
Old    Tallredrider (talltigeguy)      Join Date: Sep 2003       11-06-2008, 12:07 PM Reply   
EJ, and others,

What is wrong with the X-30 wake? It seems he started with that as an option and then there has not been one mention of it since...
Old    K.B.C.            11-06-2008, 12:13 PM Reply   
It's not on par with the 205 or 210. He said wake was the priority. Nothing necessarily wrong with it, it just doesn't stack up with two of the best wake makers out there.
Old    Brett Yates (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       11-06-2008, 2:38 PM Reply   
This is a good deal as well.

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/boa/908433595.html
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-07-2008, 12:24 AM Reply   
seems like this is a good deal but Im not sure what year it is and the tower does make it look older.
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/boa/901124893.html

Probably the prettiest boat I have seen yet with a lot of options but in a buyers market I wont pay even close to that
http://portland.craigslist.org/grg/boa/906121934.html

That malibu is cheap but I have heard a lot of people knocking the malipoos. Tiges are similiar to a X30 from my understanding (mix between ski boat and wakeboard boat with more focus on the later).

Some good finds though Yates
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-07-2008, 12:33 AM Reply   
Stephan I think the price is a little high on that boat almost too high to consider negotiating.

Tigeguy I initially thought the extra size and weight of the X30 would help with wakeboarding but apparently the hull is not properly setup and its more of a in between.
Old    Ewing (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       11-07-2008, 5:49 AM Reply   
The price on the Malibu is really good. The wake is one of the better ones...definitely more friendly than the san.
Old    Eagle Jackson (eaglejackson)      Join Date: Oct 2004       11-07-2008, 2:36 PM Reply   
I've ridden extensively on an SAN 210 and own a 205V X-2. My skill level is not advanced at all. The X-2 wake is much friendlier for beginners than the 210. The 210 is steep and abrupt, with a trough. That means it bucks you when you take off and a narrow wake landing zone on the other side. It's scary when you come into that wake and see that monster wall in front of you. Once you get used to it, it's tremendous fun and the reason why it's many experienced riders' favorite wake ever. The 205V (old X-star, then X-2, now X-1) wake is another all time favorite. It's not as steep as the old 210, but steeper than rampy wakes like the current X-star, VLX, etc. The 210 wake is super narrow; the 205V is not as narrow at the 210 but narrower than the rampy wakes.
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-07-2008, 6:23 PM Reply   
The steep and rampy makes sense to me. What does a more narrow wake Vs a less narrow wake do other than make it further or less further to go across wake to wake?
Old    Eagle Jackson (eaglejackson)      Join Date: Oct 2004       11-07-2008, 6:44 PM Reply   
Narrow wake is easier to get across, something beginners appreciate as they are learning and refining their technique. You can ride a longer rope or at a slower speed than a wider wake. The SAN 210 is at the extreme end in terms of steep wake. The 205V is not what people would call rampy, but it's rampier than the king of steep, the 210. A rampier wake has a longer transition, and is friendlier to land on than landing in the flats. If you want to land on the wake's transition (the down ramp) on a 210, it's narrow and thus you're more likely to land in the flats, which can be jarring.
Old    Luker (xbones)      Join Date: Mar 2007       11-07-2008, 8:25 PM Reply   
Nautique
Old    yo yo (scramison)      Join Date: Nov 2008       11-08-2008, 6:16 AM Reply   
good to know

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