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Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       09-29-2008, 10:21 AM Reply   
Those avy's looked crazy weighted! How much were you guys running? I am looking for everyday surfing, so prob less extreme. My main goal would be to have everything hidden. Thanks everyone!
Duffy
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-29-2008, 10:45 AM Reply   
Whoa! Who is that handsome guy? A movie star or head of state?

The avy sure throws a nice wake. I've always like that boat.

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Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-29-2008, 11:06 AM Reply   
sweet , thanks, show ! Do you know how much weight they used in that 02 Avy? That goofy wake looks sweet. I am definatly going to try and copy that set up. That boat is identical to mine, but mine isn't a C-4. I have the walk through transom, so I wonder if that will cause any diff. I might have to get pretty creative with my sacs to get enough weight in the back corner.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-29-2008, 7:54 PM Reply   
SD, At Worlds the Nashville put up fences to keep the homeless out of the event space. We couldnít afford fences in Columbus so we had no control of who was on site. I think one of the bums must have got on board unnoticed. Turns out for a half bottle of Boone's Farm the homeless make for pretty cheap judges.

Anthony, the yellow boat has a three blade prop and FAE. I donít know if that plays in to the wake quality or not, Jim thinks that it might.

Thereís an Enzo sack on the starboard side and a 750 fat sack on the starboard bench. Crew wise I was driving and weigh about 210, deans a big guy, maybe 250, Forgot who the second judge was but lets say 180 pounds, and the bum was probably about 57 pounds.

The red boat isn't a C4 either. Itís a little harder to get that much weight with the walk through.
Old    dtw. (notsobueno)      Join Date: Dec 2004       09-29-2008, 9:39 PM Reply   
"Turns out for a half bottle of Boone's Farm the homeless make for pretty cheap judges."

I'd do it for a capful.

Those wakes are sick.

When we bought our boat, I had no idea what wakesurfing is. Now I want to do it every time we take the boat out. We have a 2004 Tige 22v. Last week we tried surfing for the first time and I was quite pleased (We borrowed sacs and boards) with the wave we came up with. We had two Nautique wedge sacs filled about 85% each in the goofy side locker and a boat full of people. I am looking forward to tweaking the wave and surfing again. The best news for me is that the wife was able to find the sweet spot on the wave for the first time and she became HOOKED.
Old    Will (dubsac)      Join Date: Mar 2006       09-30-2008, 7:28 AM Reply   
"The MasterCraft X-45 w/ the after market ballast kit is the most ridiculous thing that I have ever seen!!! Very nice!!!"

Does anyone have any info on this kit?
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-30-2008, 7:53 AM Reply   
Show,

" think one of the bums must have got on board unnoticed."

No, I'm talking about the guy that is obviously a dignitary. I think in the picture, the attractive young woman has wheeled out a cooler of refreshments for him and is waiting to greet him with an appropriate level of adulation.

To be honest, Show, sometimes you aren't very observant. :-)
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-30-2008, 7:59 AM Reply   
Not to highjack the thread - ok that isn't true, but I'll stop after this. :-) Does anyone know where to get a pair of shoes like that?! Killer!

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Old    derek (to_blind)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-30-2008, 1:13 PM Reply   
I don't want to brag or push a certain boat or anything like that, but if you can't surf on both sides don't you think you are doing something wrong?
I surf a Tige 22V with only 2500 lbs of ballast and usually 5-6 bodies and regularly surf both sides, switch and regular. We weight the boat evenly, and just slide 4-5 ppl. from side to side...This is nice because our crew goes from surfing to wakeboarding, regular to goofy, depending on what ppl. are feeling, and we never have to move any weight. We aren't pros, but we can boost some airs and do 3's & 5's no problem...the wake is big enough to have 2 surf on one side, either side! Anyways, just thought I would share this because everyone is always talking about listing and weighting up one side, etc...I guess we don't find that necessary. Does anyone else just set the boat up equally weighted and giv'er ????
Old    derek (to_blind)      Join Date: Mar 2007       09-30-2008, 2:11 PM Reply   
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Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-30-2008, 2:19 PM Reply   
Thanks Show, my avy has FAE also, but I am running a 4 blade. I think I might change to my 3 blade. Do you think it will make any diff. on the reg. wake??
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-30-2008, 4:02 PM Reply   
The regular wake is easy, don't worry about it.
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-30-2008, 5:21 PM Reply   
Back to the 3 blade it is then, thanks Show.
Old    dtw. (notsobueno)      Join Date: Dec 2004       09-30-2008, 8:03 PM Reply   
derek, I have the same boat & just starting out building a wave, can you elaborate more on your weight setup? Is the 2500 pounds stock ballast or aftermarket?
Old    derek (to_blind)      Join Date: Mar 2007       10-01-2008, 8:11 AM Reply   
dtw,

no stock ballast, but we have a 200 lb. steel plate at the bottom of each rear locker with a 500 lb sack on top of that. Then in the bow we use 2-350 lb sacs in the walkway, one of which fits under the playpen cushion...now that I think of it we don't even have 2500 lbs in there, more like 2100, but usually a decent sized crew as well. TAPS set @ 3 on the port side and anywhere from 1-4 on the starboard. PP @ 10.5-11.5 MPH depending on size of rider. Hope this helps, and enjoy surfing one of the more versatile waves out there.
Old    dtw. (notsobueno)      Join Date: Dec 2004       10-01-2008, 11:36 AM Reply   
thanks derek
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-02-2008, 11:27 AM Reply   
Does anyone else have pictures of the avy surf wake? Looks promising.

Duffy
Old    Joe B (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-03-2008, 5:44 AM Reply   
3-blade prop shouldn't make a difference on regular side, but I think it does on the Goofy side. The 4-blade is .5" bigger diameter and closer to the hull and I think it adds turbulance and slightly expands the wash on the goofy side. My Avy pulled Goofy at 2 surf comps and we got a smooth face on the wave, but it did only clean up when we engaged the switchblade. Pictures are hard to come by, but show may have one or 2 in his arsenal.

A bit faster than we usually ride since I was trying to lengthen the pocket to Enzo standards, so not as tall as we ride.

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Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-03-2008, 3:29 PM Reply   
Surfdad,
What are the differences between the avalanche wave and the tige wave? From the pictures it looks like the tige wave is bigger and the avy wave is longer? What is your personal opinion? Again I am looking for a boat that surfs well on both sides and no visible ballast. Thanks

Duffy
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-03-2008, 8:56 PM Reply   
Hey Duffy,

We have been practicing with a shorter and steeper wake because we don't have access to an Enzo and two of the bigger contests were run behind Enzo's.

We can get a longer wake, but it does negatively impact the height of our Tige.

Both the Enzo and Avy like to be run fast. IMO there is a tendency to create a secondary lip, which artifically caps the height on both the Avy and Enzo, the Tige's don't have this issue.

James mostly prefers to do aerial tricks, and that requires a crisp lip. The Enzo, when weighted properly, can create this solid lip all the way to the spine, but it will tend to have a rounded lip up towards the spine. For James, who prefers the crisp lip, he has to throw his aerials much further back on an Avy or Enzo when the spine is rounded.

This first picture is of James from the WWSC, you'll notice a couple of things. First is that James is significantly back on the wake, this is where the lip was crisp on this run. Sadly, you can see that the boat had two folks sitting on the wrong side of the boat during his run. The Enzo and the Avy are pretty sensitive to weight placement, so when the ballast is misplaced, it rounds the wake and knocks down the height. One of the BIG advantages of both the Avy and Enzo, is that they don't need as much weight to form a decent wake.

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Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-03-2008, 8:57 PM Reply   
This picture, also from the WWSC shows the rounded spine on the Enzo.

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Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-03-2008, 8:59 PM Reply   
This is a picture of the Avy from the NWL nationals, you can see rounded spine is present on the Avy, also.

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Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-03-2008, 9:04 PM Reply   
This is James doing an aerial behind the same boat in the above picture. It's a little tough to tell, but if you sort of compare the wake (that you can see) in the two pictures, you can see that James is throwing his aerial pretty far back. Effectively, when the Avy or Enzo is weighted such that the spine is rounded like that, the "effective" pocket for aerialists that prefer that crisp lip is pretty short.

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Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-03-2008, 9:08 PM Reply   
This picture of our wake, shows the crisp lip that James prefers, and that is present in the Enzo and Avy further back when the spine is rounded.

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Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-03-2008, 9:14 PM Reply   
When both boats are weighted, such that they have a crisp lip forward, they are pretty much the same height and length. The Avy in particular has a steeper wake than the Enzo and about the same as our Tige. The Avy, is a bit steeper than our Tige, but not by a bunch.

Principally, you can develop pretty much the same wake on the Avy as our Tige, only for 20K cheaper? :-)
Old    Stephen Pliler (stevo8290)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-03-2008, 9:30 PM Reply   
anyone ever surf the x45? id like to see some pics on it!
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       10-04-2008, 6:34 AM Reply   
Jeff,
The avy and enzo when waited right you shouldn't have to ride right up behind the boat. The wake is plenty long enough to get speed and still throw your airs in the pocket where there is a lip. Your Tige might have a crisp lip right behind the boat but your probably not riding normally 15 ft or more behind the boat. I ride behind my avy and I can ride right up on the boat and still have a nice steep lip. When I get behind an Enzo I have to make myself stay back because that is the way you ride on that particular wake. Every boat is different. And as for the double lip thing I have never experienced this unless you leave the sideswipe on the wrong side. But never have I rode behind and Avy or Enzo and had a double lip.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-04-2008, 7:13 AM Reply   
Thanks for sharing your opionion Drew and I guess correcting mine? :-) The sideswipe thing is funny when someone forgets to turn switch - it looks like a trough, in the middle of the wake. Easy to fix, though.

I've ridden behind a number of Enzo's and Avy's with the double lip thing, it's partcularly evident when the water depth is problematic.

This pictures shows it - the first peak is the effective end of the height.

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Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-04-2008, 7:33 AM Reply   
This is a good example on an AvyUpload
Old    Drew Danielo (ollies_drew)      Join Date: Jan 2008       10-04-2008, 7:54 AM Reply   
I do see what your saying that is weird. I have never seen that before. Atleast I have never noticed it. Very strange.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-04-2008, 9:44 AM Reply   
I can actually get an 02-03 avy c4 for cheaper than an 03 tige 22v, here locally. Both seem like great boats, it's going to be a hard-hard choice. I really like the idea of a longer wave.

Duffy
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-04-2008, 10:21 AM Reply   
Keeping extra cash is something I like! :-) If you do a search on YouTube, I think you can still find the video from the 2003 World Wakesurfing Championships. They used Avy's that year and the wake was massive, as I remember. You'd be happy with either choice, I'm sure.
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-04-2008, 10:40 AM Reply   
Thanks you all have been a great help! Can't wait till spring!

Duffy
Old    dtw. (notsobueno)      Join Date: Dec 2004       10-04-2008, 11:23 AM Reply   
Duffy, how far are you from Emmet?
Old    Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney)      Join Date: Sep 2008       10-04-2008, 1:05 PM Reply   
I live in Sandpoint Idaho, which is way north almost in Canada.

Duffy
Old    Mattt (motorcitymatt)      Join Date: Feb 2007       10-04-2008, 6:34 PM Reply   
MB B52 23V
Old    Anthonyv911 (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-05-2008, 6:11 PM Reply   
I have never seen the double lip on my Avy 04. My speedo is reading 9 mph, but I am not sure if that is correct. What is the best way to tell exactly how fast your going? Sometimes I have to tap on my speedo to get it to act right. Can you surf 9mph with a Avy ? we usually have 1800 to 2000 lbs of ballast on the port side, with center also full(275)
Old    James Harold (jdjjamesz)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-05-2008, 6:57 PM Reply   
I would try 12 to 13 and see what happens
Old    James Harold (jdjjamesz)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-05-2008, 7:03 PM Reply   
hers the cyclone wave ive surfed the wakesurfing mag boat the enzo and i like my wave better and that one had the switch blade mine doesnt have it in these pics,but its getting put on right now Upload
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Old    James Harold (jdjjamesz)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-05-2008, 7:08 PM Reply   
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Old    James Harold (jdjjamesz)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-05-2008, 7:10 PM Reply   
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Old    James Harold (jdjjamesz)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-05-2008, 7:13 PM Reply   
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Old    Joe B (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-06-2008, 5:41 AM Reply   
Rubrail??? We don't need no stinkin rubrail... LOL

That's an amazing wake.

The pics of my Avy above are with 2k lbs Under the seats (none in the bow even). Hit the switches and done, although it takes a bit of time when we let the kids swim. I'm done with falling over sacs. The pic is a bit faster than we usually ride so we ride taller and shorter pocket. Too much weight in the bow is when I see a double spine. It does happen but only when testing with different setups.
Old    DUCKDIVER (duckdiver)      Join Date: Jul 2007       10-06-2008, 7:31 AM Reply   
Show (Mr. ED)...Noelle here, writing under Corey's name, forgot my password...anyway, we put our plate all the way down on the AVY shown in all the pictures you posted and it helps the goofy wake clean up. I know, according to your theory and from your announcement, you put it up again this weekend. In my opinion it did not help the goofy wake, if anything it made worse. It was a nice attempt however, so thank you for trying! Granted the ENZO and AVY are different boats, nonetheless. I'm not sure what the answer is but are you willing to try Waterdog's suggestion...it sounds a little insane (I don't know how you weight the swim platform?)...but I'd like to make an attempt to mimic your incredible reg. wake on the dark side... with out a reverse prop and or a switch blade. There must be a way....
Old    James Harold (jdjjamesz)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-06-2008, 9:49 AM Reply   
is your boat made to make a left or right
Old    guido (bluto)      Join Date: Aug 2007       10-06-2008, 7:04 PM Reply   
James,
Wouldn't the Nascar version Enzo be made to only make left turns.
Noelle,
There is a way to get a good wake on both sides from the same boat don't buy a Centurion.
Old    Show (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-06-2008, 7:26 PM Reply   
Noelle, your description is correct. We set the manual wake plate on the Mighty Enzo all the way to the upper stops. Set all the way up certainly didnít help the goofy wake and in fact generated a spray on the regular side too.

According to Noelle the goofy wake that we set up last weekend at the Lake Norris Season Extender was very good. However, there was an significant spray and the wake was anything but clean.

The general approach Iíve seen to improve the Enzo goofy wake is adding weight, a lot of weight. All I need on the regular side is 1,500 pounds. At the Norris Lake Season extender this weekend we put a 750 and 400 FH fat sack in the starboard locker, we put about 200 pounds of barbell weight over the side swipe cover, we filled the midship tank, we put a 750 FH on the starboard bench, and we put another 750 FH in the foot well of the bow. We had a driver at the controls and two crew in the starboard bow. So we ballasted with about 3,050 pounds with crew weight of about 500 more pounds. All that weight with the wake plate up didnít make a clean wake.

Every time weíve tried goofy weíve tried something different. In my opinion it hasnít turned out well ever. Iíve even tried adding experimental wake plate adapters. I thought the wake plate adapters would be something like a corrective pair of prescription glasses. They didnít, the spray was far worse.

What to do next? I could take the wakeplate off altogether. Iíd have no idea what to expect.

Iíve heard that the Centurion Surf Right option not only produces a very good goofy wake but that it also produces a very good regular wake. I donít know if you can put Right Surf on an í06 Enzo or not. If you could do so two props, a primary and a spare would run about $900. I think the Right surf option is $600 at the factory. No telling what after market would run. I wouldnít drop that kind of coin on something that might not generate a good wake on my side, the regular side. If Right Surf is better on both sides then why wouldnít all new Enzos come with Right Surf standard? At Worlds Kurt Greber said that al new Avys were coming with Right Surf.

Like Jim G., I could do a prop change, Iíve tried a ACME 537 and Iím currently running I think 1631. Both of those props are four bladed. The goofy wake is clean with neither. I still have a spare 515 from my Lightning. The pitch of 515 is too low, at high RPMs it will definitely hit the rev limiter.

I think adding left and right trim tabs might help. I have another idea cheap experiment idea but the last few didnít pan out and the season is essentially over.
Old    Jeff Walker (surfdad)      Join Date: Sep 2004       10-06-2008, 8:50 PM Reply   
Hey Ed, I swear that I've ridden behind a reverse rotation Enzo and once the 'blade was off the regular side wake was quite nice.

Does anyone know what the "Right Surf" option actually entails? Obviously a different prop, but is it a separate V drive? Is it possible, that the cables are just reversed? I heard a rumor, a LONG TIME ago and I can't attest to the authenticity, but the concept of the reverse rotation was originally tested by just reversing the cables at the V-drive and swapping the prop.

Would there be any long-term issues with that? Would it even work?
Old    Dennis (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       10-06-2008, 9:08 PM Reply   
Rich Sellers told me that his Enzo with reverse rotation prop without the blade had a good regular wake.
Old    James Harold (jdjjamesz)      Join Date: Mar 2008       10-06-2008, 9:10 PM Reply   
The only boat ive rode behind so far that makes a perfect left and right is the svfara and the waves are sic that it makes and the boat was so nice

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